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[Nickle]

I saw Miyamoto at a grocery store in Kyoto yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

The whole "...mediocre gameplay..." line has been debunked for fucking years. Fucking fact check Larry!
http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/06/17/e3-2010-shigeru-miyamoto-likes-donkey-kong-country-after-all

Fun video, but bad blood with Dylan Cuthbert, making them never work again? Q Games has made several Nintendo exclusives in recent years...

Yup. Star Fox Command and Star Fox 64 3D...

They even presented Cuthbert a completed Star Fox 2 ROM. He hasn't been one to speak ill of the company...

It's an unscrupulous piece [by Larry Bundy Jr]. For example, Star Fox 2 had EAD programmers on it and the copyrights are fully Nintendo's. Argonaut only had a co copyright on the FX technology not the individual game program for any of the games they assisted programming.

See also:

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2011/05/th...sters-of-nintendo-during-a-gaming-golden-age/
...While Argonaut's relationship with Nintendo soured, Cuthbert's relationship with Nintendo did not. Even while he was looking for a job, Miyamoto suggested that Cuthbert get a gig at HAL near Mount Fuji, something he appreciated but ultimately passed on. "I was at home in Kyoto," said Cuthbert. "So if I was going to get a job, it might was well be in another country."

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-As...Kyoto-/1-I-Want-to-Work-in-Kyoto--220778.html
Dylan Cuthbert: ... I’m director of Star Fox 64 3D. Before that, I made Star Fox Command…
Satoru Iwata: Going back a bit, you were also involved in development of the original Star Fox for the Super Famicom.
Cuthbert: That’s right. Going even further back, about 20 years ago, I came to Japan from England for the first time.
Miyamoto: That was 1990. You came to lend support as a programmer for Star Fox...
Cuthbert: My impression of Kyoto was really great, so I wanted to work with Nintendo.
Iwata: Hearing about those days is fun, so I’d like to ask a little more. Miyamoto-san, what was your impression of Dylan-san when he was 18 years old?
Miyamoto: I was surprised that he could handle programming at that age—that he could perform this kind of role when so young. I thought, “Oh, so that’s what kind of world this industry is.” The first thing I thought when I met Dylan-san was that this isn’t a field in which you can only get recognition by being older...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-22-the-life-and-times-of-dylan-cuthbert-interview
Cuthbert remembers his stint at Sony, where he was lead designer on colourful PS1 shooter Blasto, as a "friendly time" but a very different experience to what he'd seen in Kyoto. "Sony was much more American," he explains. "It was enjoyable but it was a different lifestyle. It had a very corporate feel, whereas Nintendo was more like a family - a family-run company. That was the big difference. At Sony you felt a corporate entity around you at all times. Whereas at Nintendo it was like Miyamoto-san was your dad and [former CEO] Yamauchi-san was your grandad."

Also noteworthy in this context, some folks who likely know Miyamoto pretty well:

https://www.wired.com/2016/06/zelda-breath-wild-aonuma-demo/
...That doesn’t mean Miyamoto is gone, however. To the development team, “Miyamoto is God,” Aonuma says. “So even when I say, hey, this is what I think should be done, they’ll always question: ‘Well, what would Miyamoto say?’” In that sense, the team wanted to create something Miyamoto will enjoy...

And ICYMI, an interview in which Miyamoto, Takashi Tezuka, Yoshiaki Koizumi, Hajime Yajima, Yasunari Nishida, and Yoshinori Tanimoto discuss the early development stages of Mario 64: http://shmuplations.com/mario64/

 

[TI82]

I can't find it, but there was an interview in Eurogamer (i think) from some ex-Retro employees that said even their games and decisions were constantly being questioned by a Nintendo corporate plant in their office.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I can't find it, but there was an interview in Eurogamer (i think) from some ex-Retro employees that said even their games and decisions were constantly being questioned by a Nintendo corporate plant in their office.

I mean, Retro was a goddamn mess at the start before Nintendo put more restraints on them and kept a closer eye on them

 

[Matt]

I can't find it, but there was an interview in Eurogamer (i think) from some ex-Retro employees that said even their games and decisions were constantly being questioned by a Nintendo corporate plant in their office.

Retro was an absolute mess that has barely anything to show for their work on 5 (!) games before Nintendo took over.

They needed their coffee tables upended.

 

[TI82]

I mean, Retro was a goddamn mess at the start before Nintendo put more restraints on them and kept a closer eye on them

This was after Prime iirc

 

[DecoReturns]

I can't find it, but there was an interview in Eurogamer (i think) from some ex-Retro employees that said even their games and decisions were constantly being questioned by a Nintendo corporate plant in their office.

Seems typical. Nintendo provides the money and want a good product in return.

I'm sure they do the same with other people. Maybe with Ubisoft and that supposed Rabidds game as well.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

I can't find it, but there was an interview in Eurogamer (i think) from some ex-Retro employees that said even their games and decisions were constantly being questioned by a Nintendo corporate plant in their office.

I mean it was Nintendo's money. They can do that obviously.

 

[TI82]

I mean it was Nintendo's money. They can do that obviously.

The interviewee made it seem like they weren't allowed any say in their own projects and that it was because they were a western studio. But again maybe I'm remembering wrong.

 

[Matt]

The interviewee made it seem like they weren't allowed any say in their own projects and that it was because they were a western studio. But again maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Again, one sided opinions. Even after MP came out, Retro was still a studio that needed to be closely managed as far as Nintendo was concerned, and not without merit.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Mario 64 was stolen code is huge news to me

 

[FyreWulff]

Games industry is one of the most carny industries out there.

 

[SolidChamp]

How about made Paper Mario a shell of its former self

Came for this. The behind-the-scenes rumblings/rumors of him forcing his vision onto the series sounds about right. Looks to have started with Super Paper Mario.

Apparently his meddling is to blame for Sticker Star's shortcomings, and I can totally see it now with this thread having popped up.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

Mario 64 was stolen code is huge news to me

Does anybody actually buy that.

 

[kyser73]

The best bosses are hard ass's

They really aren't. Good managers rarely need to be a hard-ass.

 

[BY2K]

Does anybody actually buy that.

All I could find about this is.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-04-born-slippy-the-making-of-star-fox

The similarity between Croc and Super Mario 64 isn't lost on San, who feels that the early prototype had some influence on the seminal N64 title. "Miyamoto-san went on to make Mario 64, which had the look and feel of our Yoshi game - but with the Mario character, of course - and beat Croc to market by around a year," San says. "Miyamoto-san came up to me at a show afterwards and apologised for not doing the Yoshi game with us and thanked us for the idea to do a 3D platform game. He also said that we would make enough royalties from our existing deal to make up for it. That felt hollow to me, as I'm of the opinion that Nintendo ended our agreement without fully realising it. They canned Star Fox 2 even though it was finished and used much of our code in Star Fox 64 without paying us a penny.

 

[ronaldthump]

gotta say watching those games in the videos, man we've come a looooong way in technology.

 

[Lijik]

I mean, the story seems to go that both games were based both conceptually and technologically on the Yoshi prototype Argonaut were making, so without knowing that prototype and what it had in common with each, it's hard to say.

While we dont have the prototype, I dont think any 3d platformer Argonaut developed really points to significant similarities between Mario 64 and the Yoshi prototype beyond being a game in 3D where you mostly jump. Everything they made in the genre were linear obstacle courses that never attempted the style of control or structure Mario had. You'd think there'd be more smoke in their games beyond "Its a game where you jump in 3D"

Maybe Miyamoto took the base idea of a 3D platformer which is kinda shitty i guess, but i dont think theres any merit to them stealing code from the prototype or outright cloning it.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

They really aren't. Good managers rarely need to be a hard-ass.

Every good boss I have ever had and met was a hard ass. Younger millennials are too sensitive to understand this.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Wait. For star fox did ninty have the right to use the code as they pleased or not?

Did they do anything illegal or were they supposed to just give the sf2 people royalties out of the kindness of their hearts?

Nintendo is a business folks, they aren't paying royalties if they don't have to. I'm sure the devs weren't working for free during the entire dev cycle of sf2 either. Certainly they missed out on additional income because the game got canned but that happens.

 

[JordanN]

@ 17mins

"DMA's scottish accent was so thick, Nintendo's translators couldn't understand a bloody word from them."

Wtf? Is this for real?

 

[dreamcastmaster]

Mario 64 was stolen code is huge news to me

There's no stolen code in any of these examples, ideas are claimed to have been copied.

If it was in any way true Argonaut would have sued Nintendo AND had proof.

You know how common it it for people to claim their ideas were stolen? Ignoring the fact that two people can independently come up with similar ideas in the same time-frame?

Most of this video is hearsay and filling in the blanks to make a narrative with his unfunny British dad jokes.

Patent your stuff before you show it to anyone is the lesson. people also need to learn to use NNN's not NDA's already.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

There's no stolen code in any of these examples, ideas are claimed to have been copied.

If it was in any way true Argonaut would have sued Nintendo AND had proof.

You know how common it it for people to claim their ideas were stolen? Ignoring the fact that two people can independently come up with similar ideas in the same time-frame?

Most of this video is hearsay and filling in the blanks to make a narrative with his unfunny British dad jokes.

Patent your stuff before you show it to anyone is the lesson. people also need to learn to use NNN's not NDA's already.

Argonaut probably couldn't sue because they had a contract with Nintendo so Nintendo could steal whatever code or ideas they created without fear of legal repercussions. Legal, but kind of lame if the stories are true.

 

[Matt]

Argonaut probably couldn't sue because they had a contract with Nintendo so Nintendo could steal whatever code or ideas they created without fear of legal repercussions. Legal, but kind of lame if the stories are true.

Nintendo owned all StarFox 2 code, so in no way could they steal it.

 

[jonno394]

All I could find about this is.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-04-born-slippy-the-making-of-star-fox

Still don't buy it, and it definitely was not "stolen code" especially after seeing the tweets here

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=227337240&postcount=62

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Does this legitimately surprise anyone?

A,most all higher ups in the video game industry (or nearly any industry for that matter) more often than not, got there by being complete assholes and or cunts.

Nintendo especially were notoriously fuck sticks in the 80s and 90s.

 

[Laughing Banana]

If the perpetrator was someone other than Miyamoto, that mofo would be getting crucified right about now.

But this thread is instead going to be full of excuses for the guy.

No one should do that. I certainly have taken no position on the validity of the accusations at this point.

But (as predicted) there are people that, on the opposite side, are very quick to dismiss any accusations without some critical thinking.

Who are in this thread are making "full of excuses for the guy"?

So you came in here, imagining Nintendo--or rather, Miyamoto--Defense Force that doesn't exist, accusing people "on the opposite side" "quick to dismiss any accusations without some critical thinking" but... I don't see any?

So I ask again, who? Quote the posts of those who you accuse as "very quick to dismiss any accusations without some critical thinking" in here. All I see is you coming here, acting all huffy-puffy about some imaginary defense force, accusing people that don't exist as dismissive, because of what...? You seem angry for no good reason at all! Hilarious, lol.

 

[Calvero]

I saw Miyamoto at a grocery store in Kyoto yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

<3

 

[bobawesome]

Couldn't get past the annoying voice.

I do find it funny that Star Fox is in the middle of two of these messes. I'm glad that franchise is dead. Miyamoto needs to forget it about already.

The worst part is the WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAA voice clip. It's the main reason I don't visit his channel more often.

 

[Conciliator]

It's crazy to think that Star Fox 2 was 100% done and cancelled. To just toss a full (probably great) video game in the trash like that. There has to be the code for that thing somewhere.

 

[FyreWulff]

It's crazy to think that Star Fox 2 was 100% done and cancelled. To just toss a full (probably great) video game in the trash like that. There has to be the code for that thing somewhere.

writing was on the wall with the Playstation being too far ahead of what the FX could do and the N64 around the corner. The problem with the FX chip is it was too expensive, I think Argonaut said themselves it was basically shipping a console you plugged into another console in terms of computational power and cost.

 

[Movalpolos]

I have very little respect for the guy to be honest. Probably the most overrated person in the industry.

 

[Lyriell]

It's crazy to think that Star Fox 2 was 100% done and cancelled. To just toss a full (probably great) video game in the trash like that. There has to be the code for that thing somewhere.

Star fox 2 is playable nowadays. I am sure you can find it one way or another if you tried googling... not that I condone theft of software.

Also... you can't 'steal' something you own.

If a programmer or company makes something under contract they do not own the code. IE: if you wrote the code for netflix for that company and then the company decides to change their mind and then puts out a different techonology but uses some of your code... you and your team can not cry fowl. They paid for you to write that code for them.

Shitty not to be credited but remember the days when Miyamoto himself was not credited in the staff scroll?

 

[Lyriell]

I have very little respect for the guy to be honest. Probably the most overrated person in the industry.

Interesting. What achivements of his do you feel do not live up to your lofty ideals?

Did he wrong you at some point, did you contract under him? And how many other designers have longer lasting franchises?

I mean, it's cool not to like the guy and all but you should give credit where it's due.

 

[CrustyBritches]

A work of art can be derivative and imitative while still being more unique and cultured. Execution and refinement are intrinsic to a superior game playing experience. Croc doesn't really hold the same standard as SM64.

 

[mnemonicj]

Why would it matter if he's an asshole or not?
He's a human being first and foremost.
He makes great games and that's it.

 

[Moze]

So where are the facts? This whole video is based on rumours and conjecture.

 

[Ban Puncher]

 

[Claude Augario]

This whole video is basically Fantastic Receipts and Where to Find Them -- a bunch of hearsay meant to hook in people with confirmation bias; except for number 2, that one is flat out false since you can't "steal" code you already own.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

I saw Miyamoto at a grocery store in Kyoto yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

Hmm.. Ok. I was interested when you saw Miyamoto but... Yeah.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Star fox 2 is playable nowadays. I am sure you can find it one way or another if you tried googling... not that I condone theft of software.

Also... you can't 'steal' something you own.

If a programmer or company makes something under contract they do not own the code. IE: if you wrote the code for netflix for that company and then the company decides to change their mind and then puts out a different techonology but uses some of your code... you and your team can not cry fowl. They paid for you to write that code for them.

Shitty not to be credited but remember the days when Miyamoto himself was not credited in the staff scroll?

How long is it and is it mostly complete. May have to give this a go as a big fan and no good games in a long time.

 

[cyberheater]

The best bosses are hard ass's

Nope. Total bollocks.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

I saw Miyamoto at a grocery store in Kyoto yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

That was my experience as well.

 

[SheHateMe]

I saw Miyamoto at a grocery store in Kyoto yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

The best ever.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Croc came out about 15 months after Mario 64 so the notion that Miyamoto stole the idea and made the game so far ahead of Croc's release leads me to take this with a huge grain of salt (more like a huge mound).

The DKC thing is known though, but it led to Yoshi's Island, which was the far better game.

Read the OP?

 

[dreamcastmaster]

It's crazy to think that Star Fox 2 was 100% done and cancelled. To just toss a full (probably great) video game in the trash like that.

It was a commercial decision, from the information in the video you can know

Donkey Kong with no FX chip sold 9 Million
Yoshi's Island with FX chip sold 4 Million

Now if Super Mario World 2 of all things only sells 4 million and is more expensive because of the FX chip included, really what's the sales projection for Starfox 2? At that time the price of memory chips was also quite high.

He's also stated that it was canned to give breathing room for Starfox 64 and says the N64 was 2 years later, but it was not planned to be as the N64 was delayed a year.

 

[Lyriell]

How long is it and is it mostly complete. May have to give this a go as a big fan and no good games in a long time.

About 95% complete... you can finish it all.

Not sure on length.

 

[IrishNinja]

I thought this was a nice exchange:

this really was great, thanks for sharing it

really helps round off the whole bit about Naka having a haiku in his office about miyamoto being a fart in the wind, haha

 

[Jack The Nipper]

About 95% complete... you can finish it all.

Not sure on length.

May try this weekend. Thanks.

Look forward to it and I assume Argo let it get out?

 

[massoluk]

The interviewee made it seem like they weren't allowed any say in their own projects and that it was because they were a western studio. But again maybe I'm remembering wrong.

The people that felt disgruntled over the criticism went to form their own company that have yet to release any notable game while Retro released critically acclaimed Donkey Kong games... So yeah