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[Marty Chinn]

Yes, I'm ignoring the rest because it's subjective. I can see the UI in Civ 5 just fine on my TV, for example. Using a mouse on the couch is the problem, not the UI.

That's great that you found one game that might be okay, but that doesn't invalidate his point. A lot of PC games don't design their UI around sitting on a couch. Cross platform games get some benefit from consoles, but that's not always the case when you go beyond the resolution of what the console version is running at. However, the controller is aimed more at games that tend to stay on a PC because of their nature of either genre, audience, and/or control interface and those don't tend to have UIs designed around sitting on a couch in front of a TV. That doesn't mean all PC games, but I'd certainly argue a majority of them don't. So great that Civ5 works, but it doesn't invalidate his point in general.

 

[enzo_gt]

Interested to hear their rationale for a thumbstick, which is seemingly redundant, instead of a D-Pad.

 

[Lmo911]

Can it be a cool clicky neo geo style stick and not analog? That would be cool!

But yeah, adding a stick when the pads are supposed to replace then is not the best sign.

 

[DerZuhälter]

I still don't get the trackpad on left side. What value does it offer? I get the better control and mouse like lookaim on the right, but the left?!

 

[Cutebrute]

This is getting silly. It looks even goofier and less inviting than the last model to a mainstream user IMO, and while the stick may help with games involving first or third person character movement, it now has fewer traditional inputs than 360 pad (no, the trackpad will never be a replacement or alternative to having 4+ additional buttons). Valve has seemingly sacrificed the number of buttons and the symmetry of the device, both of which seemed really important to the original vision.

 

[domlolz]

Uh, okay. Why are we compromising with the luddites, again?

you are using the word luddite wrong and i'm sure the changes have been made aren't to appease anyone

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

I'm still hopeful for this controller, but it's not looking good.

 

[Widge]

That's great that you found one game that might be okay, but that doesn't invalidate his point. A lot of PC games don't design their UI around sitting on a couch. Cross platform games get some benefit from consoles, but that's not always the case when you go beyond the resolution of what the console version is running at. However, the controller is aimed more at games that tend to stay on a PC because of their nature of either genre, audience, and/or control interface and those don't tend to have UIs designed around sitting on a couch in front of a TV. That doesn't mean all PC games, but I'd certainly argue a majority of them don't. So great that Civ5 works, but it doesn't invalidate his point in general.

As a front room PC gamer, I can say that the UIs suck. I've had to give up on Planetside 2. Anno 2070? GOOD LUCK MR SQUINTY.

It's why I'm hoping they do a console mode thing when ps4 ps2 hits.

 

[Branduil]

This is getting silly. It looks even goofier and less inviting than the last model to a mainstream user IMO, and while the stick may help with games involving first or third person character movement, it now has fewer traditional inputs than 360 pad (no, the trackpad will never be a replacement or alternative to having 4+ additional buttons). Valve has seemingly sacrificed the number of buttons and the symmetry of the device, both of which seemed really important to the original vision.

360 pad:

-4 action buttons
-4 shoulder buttons
-4 D-pad buttons
-2 stick buttons
-3 menu buttons

-17 total buttons + 2 analog sticks

Steam controller:

-4 action buttons
-4 shoulder buttons
-2 grip buttons
-2 pad buttons(can replicate as many as 8?)
-1 stick button?
-3 menu buttons

-16(22) total buttons + 1 analog stick + 2 haptic pads

Not seeing how that's less inputs than the 360 pad.

 

[Carlius]

Looks like they don't have much faith in those trackpads.. >_>

i think its the other way around. ppl dont have faith in the trackpads.

 

[Durante]

That's great that you found one game that might be okay, but that doesn't invalidate his point. A lot of PC games don't design their UI around sitting on a couch. Cross platform games get some benefit from consoles, but that's not always the case when you go beyond the resolution of what the console version is running at.

I'd like to comment on your word choice regarding the bolded. Every time I see a UI which was not designed to be usable on a TV from 5 meters distance I'm happy. This:

Is infinitely more usable than this:

As such, I really can't agree with the word "benefit" there, at least not in the vast majority of cases.

 

[Grief.exe]

No dpad is a huge mistake.

No d-pad? That's... concerning.

Where the hell is the D-Pad?

The touch pads defeat the purpose of a stick...what the fuck...

What benefit does a stick have

The trackpads apparently work perfectly for a dpad.

 

[greg400]

I think the best solution is to only have one touchpad on the right, then have an analog stick in the top left with the d-pad in the bottom left and 4 face buttons in the bottom right. I can see how the touchpad on the right could be better for aiming and playing genres like point and click adventure games. I've yet to see a scenario where that left touchpad is better for movement than an analog stick.

 

[Tobor]

That's great that you found one game that might be okay, but that doesn't invalidate his point. A lot of PC games don't design their UI around sitting on a couch. Cross platform games get some benefit from consoles, but that's not always the case when you go beyond the resolution of what the console version is running at. However, the controller is aimed more at games that tend to stay on a PC because of their nature of either genre, audience, and/or control interface and those don't tend to have UIs designed around sitting on a couch in front of a TV. That doesn't mean all PC games, but I'd certainly argue a majority of them don't. So great that Civ5 works, but it doesn't invalidate his point in general.

His point is invalid in general to me, as UI is not my issue in the majority of games. Civ 5 was just one example. Control is my issue, and the steam controller solves it.

 

[HappehLemons]

They should just get rid of the left touchpad and replace with a d-pad. Perfect Controller.

 

[Syf]

I agree with the idea that the best solution might be to abandon the left side touchpad altogether in favor of a traditional thumbstick, and then put a d-pad on the bottom left. A thumbstick is going to be better than a touchpad for movement imo, but the right side touchpad should be more accurate for something like aiming or moving a camera around.

 

[Tobor]

The left touchpad is useful in mouse driven games. If they take it away, the controller is less useful as a KB/M replacement.

 

[10k]

Almost there valve. Now add a second joystick, get rid of those trackpads and add a dPad and you're good to go.

 

[freshVeggie]

Adding only one joystick makes me think it's not intended as an admission the touch pads were a failed idea. If that was the case, wouldn't it make sense to add two joysticks? Especially considering in fps/tps the right stick is actually used for fine aiming while the right stick is used more roughly.
Interested in how this controller will evolve.
If I could change the valve controller (without taking money into consideration), I'd keep the two touch pads, add two joysticks, a good d-pad (ps4/vita), add four bigger buttons in the middle with led screens (customizable of course), speaker output, mic, maybe camera for eye, head-tracking.
Never used a trackball so I don't know how it compares to a touchpad or joystick regarding accuracy.

 

[Scar Mortico]

Final version one year from now:

And Valve fanboys will be like "WOW! SUCH INNOVATION FROM OUR LORD AND SAVIOR GABE! PC MASTER RACE YOOOOOOO!"

XD

 

[scitek]

Almost there valve. Now add a second joystick, get rid of those trackpads and add a dPad and you're good to go.

Smh that controller already exists. Go buy one.

 

[Arulan]

Every time I see a UI which was not designed to be usable on a TV from 5 meters distance I'm happy.

I agree but I wouldn't stop there. There are several reasons why a PC game sharing a release with consoles can be detrimental to the PC version. The user-interface as already pointed out often suffers tremendously both because of the type of display and viewing distance normally associated with it, and the controller. Hardware limitations impose strict constraints in game design despite the hardware being readily available in the PC space. The controller itself heavily impacts game design as well. In the case of First-Person Shooters it directly lead to "features" such as aim assist and slow-moving ADS.

Simply put, there are hardly any benefits when a PC game is released on consoles (aside from monetary gain from the developer), and in most cases the PC version suffers because of it.

As for the controller, I don't normally use controllers unless I have to (on consoles for instance), but if they can provide an adequate compromise for not using a keyboard/mouse I would be willing to try them for certain games. Regarding the controller being changed again, the people who do not understand why this doesn't spell doom need only understand one thing in any type of design work:

Iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, and continue iterating...

 

[Ivan]

I think one stick and a d-pad on the left and one trackpad and standard buttons on the right would be the best solution for most people.

We still get a "mouse" with all it's benefits, we keep one thumbstick for genres that need it, we have a dpad for nice menu navigation and genres that need that.

Awesome controller that can play games in a different way, but still feels familiar.

Two trackpads are pointless, I just don't get the idea. Don't say it's symmetry, because there are smarter ways to address that. There is no point of having two mice. We all loose that way.

 

[Syphon Filter]

The trackpads apparently work perfectly for a dpad.

I wonder if the track pad kind of moves when you make a half circle motion[ie. street fighter fireball] If it moves a certain way then that will work, didn't even think of that before.

 

[Syphon Filter]

I think one stick and a d-pad on the left and one trackpad and standard buttons on the right would be the best solution for most people.

We still get a "mouse" with all it's benefits, we keep one thumbstick for genres that need it, we have a dpad for nice menu navigation and genres that need that.

Awesome controller that can play games in a different way, but still feels familiar.

Two trackpads are pointless, I just don't get the idea. Don't say it's symmetry, because there are smarter ways to address that. There is no point of having two mice. We all loose that way.

Agree with your thoughts. Keep the right trackpad but remove the left since now its more of an option if anything with the stick added.

 

[wanderjahr]

Is anybody here actually using steam controller? I know there are some beta testers. I'd like to hear feedback from them.

 

[Baleoce]

I would be extremely disappointed if a new revision to this turned up with a traditional d-pad on it. The trackpad solution is much more exciting, and if you actually research the controller, you'll hear nothing but good things with regards to the way the d-pad is implemented via the trackpad. If you don't like the idea of trackpads, then evidentally your perfect controllers already exists that cater to your needs. We don't need a new console controller clone with very slight adjustments. They already exist. I understand that 3rd parties are going to want them to conform to a certain extent for compatibility, that's most likely why the analogue stick has turned up and the face buttons as well from the previous adjustment. But really, it needs to come out and people need to try the haptic trackpads so we can put the trepidation aside and actually experience it for ourselves.

 

[Demmi]

But you do them on a single mouse. So why would you need two pads to recreate it? I can't see a use case for why you need a second track pad, because it's emulating a single mouse.

From what I've gathered, the two pads work in tandem to recreate the functionality of a mouse.

One alone simply isn't enough (hence various functions, such as panning and basic cursor movement, are handled separately).

 

[zashga]

The trackpads apparently work perfectly for a dpad.

I'm skeptical of this claim. My expectation is that they will be better than iOS virtual dpads if only because your thumb won't be covering the screen. The analog stick will probably be the best dpad substitute on this controller.

Spoiler

Not that the current design is final.

 

[Rodney McKay]

I had completely forgotten about this thing, and I was incredibly excited for it last year.

I wish they had just allowed the general public to order their prototype version ala Oculus Rift. I know they had a beta release, but that was so limited I had no chance of getting one.

I think the last model they had was looking pretty great and would have been perfect for me since I've got my PC hooked up to my TV now and it has been for the last year or more. I haven't really played any traditional mouse and keyboard games since them and it would be great to have one of these to make that possible (or at least enjoyable). Even though I like having a joystiq, the lack of the 4 additional face buttons may make mapping some PC games to the controller more difficult.

I love Steam and all, but I'm getting pretty fucking sick of "Valve Time." The last ANYTHING they've done that I was excited for was Portal 2 which is over 3 years old at this point. This controller could have been that, but they really need to announce a hard date for it for me to give a shit at this point.

 

[Syphon Filter]

I'm skeptical of this claim. My expectation is that they will be better than iOS virtual dpads if only because your thumb won't be covering the screen. The analog stick will probably be the best dpad substitute on this controller.

Spoiler

Not that the current design is final.

I believe the trackpad moves physically when you press on it so if it feels right then i can see it working fine.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I was trying out the old beta controller today, it *does* feel like you are pressing a real button, because the force-feedback is so strong. And the right pad feels like you are spinning a trackball. Whatever else they've done, they got the feel of using the pads perfect. FAR better than any virtual buttons on a touchscreen device.

 

[Tobor]

I had completely forgotten about this thing, and I was incredibly excited for it last year.

I wish they had just allowed the general public to order their prototype version ala Oculus Rift. I know they had a beta release, but that was so limited I had no chance of getting one.

I think the last model they had was looking pretty great and would have been perfect for me since I've got my PC hooked up to my TV now and it has been for the last year or more. I haven't really played any traditional mouse and keyboard games since them and it would be great to have one of these to make that possible (or at least enjoyable). Even though I like having a joystiq, the lack of the 4 additional face buttons may make mapping some PC games to the controller more difficult.

I love Steam and all, but I'm getting pretty fucking sick of "Valve Time." The last ANYTHING they've done that I was excited for was Portal 2 which is over 3 years old at this point. This controller could have been that, but they really need to announce a hard date for it for me to give a shit at this point.

Exactly. They should have just let us order them when they announced them. Call it a paid beta or whatever, just let me get my hands on one.

 

[Mister D]

I'm glad they added an analog stick. The closer it gets to a 360 pad with the added benefit of mouse controls makes the transition from my 360 pad a lot easier and more functional. It would be cool to play something like Skyrim without having to reach for my mouse and keyboard just to click Play Game on the launcher. Since most of what I play are console ports anyway the more similar to a console pad the better for me.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Kind of killing my interest in the thing here. I have tons of traditional gamepads that I can use on my PC. I want something that's completely new.

 

[ashecitism]

Kind of killing my interest in the thing here. I have tons of traditional gamepads that I can use on my PC. I want something that's completely new.

Aren't the dual touchpads new enough? Those were always the main attraction of this controller and they're still there.

 

[CecilRousso]

Aren't the dual touchpads new enough? Those were always the main attraction of this controller and they're still there.

Exactly. Don't see the fuss about this. It's still a very unique controller, which we should all be happy about.

 

[DOWN]

I still don't get if they're doing this to make a better gamepad and are slowly realize it's not gonna happen, or if they just are insisting on being different for marketing reasons.

Either way, I don't see the trackpads as an improvement over competitors.

 

[Nzyme32]

Can it be a cool clicky neo geo style stick and not analog? That would be cool!

But yeah, adding a stick when the pads are supposed to replace then is not the best sign.

It's a good point. Everyone assumes it's a stick but it could easily be something else since we are just looking at a drawing essentially.

Could even be a HAT switch like the joysticks of old

 

[Durante]

I still don't get if they're doing this to make a better gamepad and are slowly realize it's not gonna happen, or if they just are insisting on being different for marketing reasons.

Either way, I don't see the trackpads as an improvement over competitors.

Did you consider the pointing device use case in your in-depth analysis? Do you think a thumbstick is a better pointing device than a touchpad?

 

[SeanTSC]

Doesn't need two Trackpads. Much rather have Analog Stick + D-pad left side, Trackpad + Buttons right side.

A/B and X/Y should be swapped like they are on the Nintendo controllers that are setup like that. A/X are the most used buttons and should be closer to the Trackpad, not away from it. If you're going to put the Trackpad on that side of the buttons the buttons have to be swapped.

I'd also like Paddles on the back of it like the Scuf Gaming custom controllers. It looks like there's something on the back from that diagram, but they look like little buttons and not as good as the Paddles.

 

[ashecitism]

Doesn't need two Trackpads. Much rather have Analog Stick + D-pad left side, Trackpad + Buttons right side.

A/B and X/Y should be swapped like they are on the Nintendo controllers that are setup like that. A/X are the most used buttons and should be closer to the Trackpad, not away from it. If you're going to put the Trackpad on that side of the buttons the buttons have to be swapped.

I'd also like Paddles on the back of it like the Scuf Gaming custom controllers. It looks like there's something on the back from that diagram, but they look like little buttons and not as good as the Paddles.

.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

This is going to be focus tested to death, right?

Spoiler

just like most of Valve's products

 

[SeanTSC]

.

Oh nice, those look good. Couldn't tell how they looked from the diagram pic in the first post.

So that's one problem down!

 

[Nzyme32]

Doesn't need two Trackpads. Much rather have Analog Stick + D-pad left side, Trackpad + Buttons right side.

A/B and X/Y should be swapped like they are on the Nintendo controllers that are setup like that. A/X are the most used buttons and should be closer to the Trackpad, not away from it. If you're going to put the Trackpad on that side of the buttons the buttons have to be swapped.

I'd also like Paddles on the back of it like the Scuf Gaming custom controllers. It looks like there's something on the back from that diagram, but they look like little buttons and not as good as the Paddles.

Does need 2 trackpads.

Using both simultaneously to have a greater surface area to move around seems to be ideal for mouse-centric games and those that require higher response of mouse movement over wide areas. Being able to do that and avoid mouse acceleration is pretty cool in my opinion

In the end that is the purpose of the controller - to support as many PC games as possible regardless of controller support

 

[impact]

Is it not possible that they've come to the conclusion that you can't make a single controller that works for all games, and so they'd rather make a controller that works to solve the couch KBM issue than a controller that exactly duplicates the dualshock, which you can still use with games on Steam that have controller support?

Then they're just leaving this pad as a not good enough precision for m/kb games and not even as good as a regular dual analog PS4/360 pad. I don't see the point, unless there's that many PC gamers that hate using m/kb. The Steam pad looks atrocious for a platformer or a fighting game. I just don't see where it fits in and I don't think there's that many Civ V players that want to use a controller over m/kb so bad. It just strikes me as inferior to all the options we have now as a PC gamer.

But whatever, it's just another option, and it's Valve so it'll get much undeserved love regardless.

 

[ashecitism]

This is going to be focus tested to death, right?

Spoiler

just like most of Valve's products

You mean playtesting.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

You mean playtesting.

Oh, right.

I'm really curious how this ends up, though. It's on the path to just becoming a regular controller, but then it won't really justify its existence. I don't see them dropping this entirely either, though, because it's a key part of their "cut Microsoft out of everything" strategy.

 

[SeanTSC]

Does need 2 trackpads.

Using both simultaneously to have a greater surface area to move around seems to be ideal for mouse-centric games and those that require higher response of mouse movement over wide areas. Being able to do that and avoid mouse acceleration is pretty cool in my opinion

In the end that is the purpose of the controller - to support as many PC games as possible regardless of controller support

Using both at the same time to control a mouse pointer sounds really awkward, personally. Does it even actually work like that? Does it set both to the mouse when it's in that mode? How would you even play a shooter like that? Taking your thumb off the left stick to aim does *not* work.

 

[ashecitism]

Using both at the same time to control a mouse pointer sounds really awkward, personally. Does it even actually work like that? Does it set both to the mouse when it's in that mode? How would you even play a shooter like that? Taking your thumb off the left stick to aim does *not* work.

from this thread

Well think about it: mouse movement. Using two trackpads you should be able to go faster with mouse movement much easier than with one. Two fingers to the same direction if you want to go fast. Here's a video of a guy from Valve explaining it.