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Lionhead Studios and Press Play closed. Fable legends cancelled.

Crayon

Crayon

Member
I know many of you are eagerly awaiting Stumpokapow's next book.

Here's a 2014 classic by Drek to curl up with in the meantime:

Drek said:
Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".
Click to expand...
 
B

Bluenoser

Member
Amir0x said:
It doesn't equate to it, but that's the direction we're headed. These are not the moves one makes if you're investing heavily in a future with robust hardware helmed by your company. And it's not this alone, it's many recent bits of news culminating in this being a real thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had the same reaction. Anyone objectively looking at the recent news around Xbox will notice a disturbing trend. It really all points to one thing- hopefully we are wrong.
 
B

Barrel Cannon

Member
It's a shame. The series always had charming aspects to it. The games could have been a lot better if they focused on making the combat more nuanced removing all the atrocious bugs and load times the series is known for.
 
R

Raist

Banned
AncientDiety said:
That's kind of odd, you would think he would mention it and thank the employees for their years of service.
Click to expand...

GI: You're obviously doing OK in the States, you're doing OKish in the UK. Anywhere else not so hot though.

Spencer: Yeah but we're preparing the greatest lineup in XBOX history for 2016.

GI: Well you said that last year.

Spencer: Yeah, but here's the thing: We're refocusing our development teams to make sure this is the best bestest, like ever. Sadly, I have to announce that we're shutting down Lionhead and Press Play.

GI: But we knew that two years ago.

Spencer: What?

GI: These studios being shut down.

Spencer: No, but like, for realz .

GI: Yeah. I read the PR.

Spencer: I don't think so.

GI: I'm positive. It was posted on GAF.

Spencer: Really?

GI: Yep, there was like 6 threads about it. Mods worked overtime to merge them.

Spencer: That Lionhead and Press Play will??

GI: Yep.

Spencer: I'm going to have to confirm that. That was supposed to be the big announcement. I don't read GAF much these days, they're a bunch of Sony Ponies.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Crayon said:
I know many of you are eagerly awaiting Stumpokapow's next book.

Here's a 2014 classic by Drek to curl up with in the meantime:
Click to expand...

Goodness. Now add up all the things recently to that list.

And I agree about them getting into it for the wrong reasons. There were a lot of us who said that the day they announced the first Xbox. And I loved the 360 early on last gen, later on when they let it dry up, it collected dust so to speak, while the PS3 got more play time due to their first party output for consoles.

Markoman said:
Well, leaving the hardware industry does not equal no more Xbox.
I can totally see them licence the Xbox brand to 2nd party manufacturers in the future.
From a business perspective this makes way more sense than some of you are making it to believe. Yes, they are already shifting focus and changing direction of their whole 'entertainment' branch: 1. focus: W10 and services.

Hardware is not the most lucrative and risk-free business for a software company anyways. If they are going with shorter cycles, why even bother with R&D and all the risks involved releasing more hardware products.

They are pulling a Nintendo here, saying 'Sony is not a direct competitor anymore'. The one eye on Apple and Google, one eye on Sony approach surely doesn't work out for them. Like some mentioned here they will take as much Xbox users as they can, but they will not spend billions on trying to compete with Playstation's mindshare again.
Click to expand...

Good perspective.

Another reason they want to focus on MAU, you do not need to count hardware when there will not be anymore sole console hardware to count. ;)
 
M

Markoman

Member
mcrommert said:
My mistake. "I'm sorry to have to explain it to you, but "seriously changing direction" does not equate to leaving the hardware industry"
Click to expand...

Well, leaving the hardware industry does not equal no more Xbox.
I can totally see them licensing the Xbox brand to 2nd party manufacturers in the future.
From a business perspective this makes way more sense than some of you are making it to believe. Yes, they are already shifting focus and changing direction of their whole 'entertainment' branch: 1. focus: W10 and services.

Hardware is not the most lucrative and risk-free business for a software company anyways. If they are going with shorter cycles, why even bother with R&D and all the risks involved releasing more hardware products.

They are pulling a Nintendo here, saying 'Sony is not a direct competitor anymore'. The one eye on Apple and Google, one eye on Sony approach surely doesn't work out for them. Like some mentioned here they will take as much Xbox users as they can, but they will not spend billions on trying to compete with Playstation's mindshare again.
 
C

Carl

Member
Raist said:
GI: You're obviously doing OK in the States, you're doing OKish in the UK. Anywhere else not so hot though.

Spencer: Yeah but we're preparing the greatest lineup in XBOX history for 2016.

GI: Well you said that last year.

Spencer: Yeah, but here's the thing: We're refocusing our development teams to make sure this is the best bestest, like ever. Sadly, I have to announce that we're shutting down Lionhead and Press Play.

GI: But we knew that two years ago.

Spencer: What?

GI: These studios being shut down.

Spencer: No, but like, for realz .

GI: Yeah. I read the PR.

Spencer: I don't think so.

GI: I'm positive. It was posted on GAF.

Spencer: Really?

GI: Yep, there was like 6 threads about it. Mods worked overtime to merge them.

Spencer: That Lionhead and Press Play will??

GI: Yep.

Spencer: I'm going to have to confirm that. That was supposed to be the big announcement. I don't read GAF much these days, they're a bunch of Sony Ponies.
Click to expand...

I understand that reference
 
Bitch Pudding

Bitch Pudding

Member
Mikey Jr. said:
I really wonder what the word "xbox" will mean in 5 years.

Also, when do we usually hear rumblings about the next console? 5 years in?
Click to expand...

Something like that if they continue the path they just entered...



whats-an-xbox.gif
 
P

Peterc

Member
What happens with the licenses?

Can for example sony or nintendo buy them?

It should be a shame if this is the end for fable series.
 
S

sunshine and gasoline

Banned
I can't say that I ever loved a game from Lionhead Studios but this is sad news. Fable was a a game that influenced me significantly. Without it I would not have purchased the original Xbox which lead to many wonderful moments and started my ventures into PC gaming. While Fable was a massive disappointment for me I do look back fondly on the game.

I wish the best of luck to the employees of both studios.
 
J

justsomeguy

Member
Still just feel really sad for my friend who is impacted by this and the awesome guys I got to meet there recently. Fable seems like an IP which still has a lot of life in it, but the humour is a Lionhead trademark really; I cant see another studio picking it up and delivering the same kind of experience.

I really am stunned at this news still.
 
J

Jumeira

Banned
KingBroly said:
Cutting Lionhead is like cutting off a bone for Microsoft at this point, not fat. Lionhead WAS a reputable studio that got driven into the ground after Fable 2.
Click to expand...

Not sure you have info to back that up? Even if that's the case, you said driven into the ground, MS weren't getting the return with no future where this would be the case without more effort, investment and the result is what, Legends? Kind of says it there really .
 
H

harSon

Banned
Considering the lack of acknowledgement from people like Phil Spencer, Major Nelson, etc - and the fact that this seemed to happen abruptly and without notice, I'm wondering if this was mandated from above. Curious to see if there's any type of an exodus if that's the case, and individuals were off-put by its handling.
 
Stantron

Stantron

Member
This is just sad. I was really looking forward to playing Fable Legends beyond the beta. What a waste to not launch a game after so much time and effort developing it to its current state. :(
 
O

Occam

Member
Crayon said:
I know many of you are eagerly awaiting Stumpokapow's next book.

Here's a 2014 classic by Drek to curl up with in the meantime:
Click to expand...

And it's still spot on.
Needs to be updated.

It keeps surprising me how Microsoft manages to pull the wool over so many people's eyes.
 
C

cilonen

Member
Salty Hippo said:
He's completely ignoring it for now, even posted something about QB about an hour ago.
Click to expand...

Saying anything not fully lawyer-approved at this point could open the company up to many liabilities.

The press release that got posted isn't something that that MS Europe exec came up with off the cuff. It's very carefully worded indeed.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Carl said:
It became a running joke for ages, i'm surprised you missed it.
Click to expand...

So am I! It may be possible I just forgot about it too. But that exchange is so funny I can't believe I'd just forget. Who knows though. Hilarious either way :p

Talk about forgetting to forward the memo haha
 
M

Mr Swine

Banned
While I'm sad to see Lionhead go MS will brush this of like nothing. They are still the second largest hardware maker after Sony and is doing a ton better than Nintendo.

I think MS will focus being both a console maker and third party publisher for the Xbox brand. They will rely less on their first party games for the time being
 
F

family_guy

Member
Markoman said:
Well, leaving the hardware industry does not equal no more Xbox.
I can totally see them licensing the Xbox brand to 2nd party manufacturers in the future.
From a business perspective this makes way more sense than some of you are making it to believe. Yes, they are already shifting focus and changing direction of their whole 'entertainment' branch: 1. focus: W10 and services.

Hardware is not the most lucrative and risk-free business for a software company anyways. If they are going with shorter cycles, why even bother with R&D and all the risks involved releasing more hardware products.

They are pulling a Nintendo here, saying 'Sony is not a direct competitor anymore'. The one eye on Apple and Google, one eye on Sony approach surely doesn't work out for them. Like some mentioned here they will take as much Xbox users as they can, but they will not spend billions on trying to compete with Playstation's mindshare again.
Click to expand...

I see them doing something like Steam Big Picture mode for Windows 10 where when you launch it looks like you're basically on an Xbox One. Xbox may not be hardware anymore. Just an app on your PC.
 
D

DigSCCP

Member
mcrommert said:
Microsoft is doing Recore, Scalebound, and Sea Thieves. Just because they aren't doing them in their own studios doesn't make them not games they are making.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you I still think this was and still is one of the biggests MS mistakes.
Look what hapenned to Halo.
Bungie left and with them a lot of fans.
Same will happen with Gears.
Insomniac that made Sunset now is back with Sony.
Crytek that made Ryse is not developing anything exclusive for them.
And we got a lot of other examples.
Im not saying partnership with 2nd/3rd parties for excluisives is a bad thing, because is not.
Still tho relying most of your exclusives in the hands of those who tomorrow can be doing games for your 'rival' is not a good choice imo.
 
N

NoHeDidn't

Member
MS is horrible in the way it treats studios,partners and devs always has been.I remember hearing Sony going broke doom and gloom but I don't remember Sony letting nearly as many studios sink as MS with its warchest.

Still as much as Id love getting all the games on one console we need competition to stop companies from being complacent.Maybe if MS quit buying third party exclusive access like Tomb Raider and Sunset overdrive they could atleast get games like Fable legends to release to make some money back.
 
J

Jumeira

Banned
harSon said:
Considering the lack of acknowledgement from people like Phil Spencer, Major Nelson, etc - and the fact that this seemed to happen abruptly and without notice, I'm wondering if this was mandated from above. Curious to see if there's any type of an exodus if that's the case, and individuals were off-put by its handling.
Click to expand...
And go through a night of fanboys picking every word and construing their own meaning over the one he intended? No thanks. The official line has been published, I'm sure he'll give his opinion when things settle down.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
DigSCCP said:
While I agree with you I still think this was and still is one of the biggests MS mistakes.
Look what hapenned to Halo.
Bungie left and with them a lot of fans.
Same will happen with Gears.
Insomniac that made Sunset now is back with Sony.
Crytek that made Ryse is not developing anything exclusive for them.
And we got a lot of other examples.
Im not saying partnership with 2nd/3rd parties for excluisives is a bad thing, because is not.
Still tho relying most of your exclusives in the hands of those who tomorrow can be doing games for your 'rival' is not a good choice imo.
Click to expand...

And even Crytek is working on a VR game for PC/PS4 now, so their focus has shifted as mentioned.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...enture-robinson-the-journey-confirmed-for-ps4
 
D

DeathoftheEndless

Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
mcrommert said:
"We are coming out with more hardware for consoles while also putting our games on pc" - Microsoft is leaving console gaming

"Microsoft shutters two studios" - Microsoft is leaving gaming entirely

smh
Click to expand...

Yeah, that Phil Spencer quote really confused people apparently.
 
M

Markoman

Member
family_guy said:
I see them doing something like Steam Big Picture mode for Windows 10 where when you launch it looks like you're basically on an Xbox One. Xbox may not be hardware anymore. Just an app on your PC.
Click to expand...

Ha, yeah you're right. This is what Windows 8 could have been: a 'dual' OS
- Metro UI for casual mode= entertainment
- normal OS for normal windows usage

MS just fucked things up again: they are either too early or too late to the parties.
 
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