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LTTP: Kingdom Hearts - Birth By Sleep

Meowster

Member
cc6fa24e1e.png


The best version of Dearly Beloved

Warning: spoilers won't be tagged. It's been a long road to finishing this game. I started in May after I finished platinuming Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts II but got burned out by just how strange things were - the camera angle was so odd and way too close to the character, the command menu seemed like a downgrade from Kingdom Hearts II's progression system, strange minigames, and Terra's choices continued to frustrate me.. and so I put it down and decided to pick it back up three months ago. I had a huge 180 on the game: I learned to embrace the new systems this game made instead of shunning them. Shotlock was no longer a foreign ability I rarely used but instead an (almost cheap) asset. The Command Board was no longer this bizarre attempt at Monopoly but a fun and creative alternative to leveling my abilities. Something just finally managed to click and I finally managed to complet everything and got every trophy possible for this entry in the Kingdom Hearts universe. I'll never forget the bond I shared with Thunder Surge, the only possible way for me to manage to beat Mysterious Figure on Critical with every character.

It was really great to have three different play styles throughout the game. We've only really had Sora and Roxas to gauge and they both were pretty similar in how they moved/reacted. Terra was a bit of a chore at first but I became a big fan of his lumbering strength. Ventus, too, was a lot of fun being a fast and agile character. He could just zoom all around the map and his dodge roll saved my ass many times. The real hero for me, however, was Aqua. Her magical style and graceful flips was something quite unique to the Kingdom Hearts series and I got quite attached to her GOAT barrier skill. It was harder to play as her since I didn't really grind with her and had to play it safe and be a little bit more smarter with what I was doing.

I didn't like the new Command system at first but it really starts to be fun once you play around with it a little. You can have some pretty powerful attacks, spells, abilities early on if you play your cards right and mess around with melding. A guide helps too. I wish I experimented a little bit more throughout my initial playthrough with Terra because I kinda sucked at him at first and was only, like, level 28 when I fought his final boss who was pretty damn tough. I had difficulty with all three character's final bosses. Actually, the bosses in this game are pretty awesome other than the Mysterious Figure.. who is probably the most bullshit boss I've faced in gaming yet. Loved No Heart, The Armor of Eraqus, Vanitas.

Also cool to see so much variety in the minigames (the racer was kinda fun) and were a nice break from an otherwise bleak and depressing scenario.

Speaking of which - the story. I loved everything about this melodramatic tragedy between three friends. Everything could have been avoided if they all just learned to communicate with each other - though I suppose that is the irony - as Terra struggles with the darkness he has inside, Ventus with the fate he was forced into, and Aqua with the power she'd been given and trying to maintain the balance the three friends shared. There were some parts that bothered me (like Terra really falling for someone as blatantly evil as Maleficent or Master Xehanort) and I think there could have been a lot more emphasis on the cutscenes save for a few. We see the potential with the brilliant convesations between Terra/Master Xehanort and Aqua/Ansem the Wise in the Secret Episode. But still, the last fourth of each character's acts really raised the stakes and it was almost painful watching them all fall into the evil Master Xehanort's (who is voiced by the incredibly awesome Leonard Nimoy, my favorite voice in this game other than Haley Joel Osment's Vanitas) plans. And damn - they all really get screwed up. Terra is forced into a lifetime battle against Master Xehanort in his head, Ventus is trapped in eternal slumber until his heart can be reawakened, and Aqua potentially dooming herself in the Realm of Darkness to save her friends. Two moments in the ending made me shed a couple of tears: Aqua sending Terra back into reality and Aqua's realization of the little boy she met ended up becoming a great savior that was fixing their mistakes. It was just such an emotional catharsis after everything we've seen in the series this far.

Now I just have to chug through Dream Drop Distance!

What did you guys think of this game? It's probably in my top three in the series but I'm not sure how I'd rank them just yet.
 
I think it's equal to 2. It's hard to place one or the other. What might nudge 2 ahead of BBS for me personally is that I prefer 2's gameplay maybe a bit more.

Square has some real serious problems with making good prequels, but this is a huge exception. The story has been nuts since the first game so I won't even bother talking about the overall plot here, but it got the characters and moments right. It exceeds it's portable side story stigma easily. It should have easily been labeled Kingdom Hearts 3 because that's what it is.

And good luck with BBS. Ugh.
 

Eylos

Banned
I'm Also playing It right now, the game looks great on pro. Playing the story of the three characters together.

Currently at radiant garden
 

Dremorak

Banned
Its in my top 10 game stories. Its the best kingdom hearts game by a country mile. Its like you said OP: its a very real situation where assumptions and rumors can lead to friendships falling apart. As you see what happened from each character's perspective its heartbreaking to see how they get misled and turned against each other
 

MattAces

Member
Playing this right now too. I felt like I'm playing the wrong game. Enjoyed every single previous entry but this seems to be the weakest one. Maybe Aqua is where the story really picks up, but so far I'm halfway through Terra and finished Ventus. Story is very minimal and gameplay is not the strongest.
 

FingerBang

Member
I gave up on the series with this one. I loved the first two and CoM but this one, I don't know, felt like a cheap sequel. I tried the 3DS one as well but couldn't get into it either. I wonder if I should grab them for PS4 and try to play them again before the new one comes out. Because 3 looks great.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Funny this should pop up now. I just started it up again (on PS4 as opposed to PS3 this time) a couple of days ago.

It definitely has a great story and characters. The line-to-line writing is fairly stiff as it always is in these games, but it ends up being greater than the sum of its parts by the end. Terra is my favorite character to play as. I love his slow, strong hits. So very different from everyone else.
 

FinalAres

Member
This game is my response to people complaining KH has just been a load of spin offs since KH2. BBS is every bit the mainline entry. It has problem but there are other areas where it far exceeds every other game in the series.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I loved BBS on PSP but playing on PS4 show how simplify the combat are. But it made sense, the game was design around PSP system that only has one analog stick, so for that system it worked great.
 

oni-link

Member
Playing this right now too. I felt like I'm playing the wrong game. Enjoyed every single previous entry but this seems to be the weakest one. Maybe Aqua is where the story really picks up, but so far I'm halfway through Terra and finished Ventus. Story is very minimal and gameplay is not the strongest.

Really?

I complete disagree, for me the combat in this game was the strongest of the 3 main games (1, 2 and BBS)

That shotlock though
 

Strings

Member
I'll never forget the bond I shared with Thunder Surge

Genuinely laughed out loud.

As for the rest, yeah, pretty good game. I like the story, the music (there are some absolute gems), and the volume of bosses (even though all the superbosses suck outside of No Heart), but... It's no Kingdom Hearts 1 or 2.

That said, it's a title designed for portables, and playing it on the psp at release was goddamn ridiculous. Square really did some stupid impressive things with that hardware.
 

shimon

Member
Never played BBS,that's the only game left from 1.5 and 2.5.

From what I'm reading here it's pretty good correct? What are the things people dislike about it?
 
What people complain about tend to be about the simplistic level design, the divisiveness of the command system, and the 3 story paths that makes you retread the game to get the whole story.

For all i might complain about it these days, it delivered a near home-console experience on the PSP, which was an incredible prospect for portable gaming back then. It also had, arguably, my favorite OST across the entire series.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Really?

I complete disagree, for me the combat in this game was the strongest of the 3 main games (1, 2 and BBS)

That shotlock though

you got to be kidding me!!! Especially compare to KH2 FM the combat system for BBS is very shallow. I mean look at the way you fight the boss compare to KHII bosses. You cant use the combo for bosses because they will kill you. You are mostly have to rely on cheap tactics to beat all secret bosses in the game.
 
My favourite KH games by a pretty decent amount. The only real gripe I have with it is the fact that you can choose your character at the start. Since Terra only gets the start of vignettes, Ventus only gets the middle bits and Aqua gets the conclusions, it feels like you are supposed to play it in that exact order. I stupidly enough picked Ventus first because he was prominently placed in the promo material, and ended up with nothing but carrot-on-a-stick stories where things already happened and nothing got resolved. Playing Aqua next was tied into it nicely, but going back to Terra ended up feeling a little like my time was wasted since I knew pretty much everything about that chapter already before even touching it.

Aside from that, these games never played this well, I loved the Command Board, and BBS can even stand on its own, unlike every other KH sequel. It being portable was a major plus point too in my book. Knowing that KH3 is being made by this team gives me confidence that the series is in good hands.
 

Strings

Member
Unrelated, but Command Board fans should check out Culdcept Revolt (or really any Culdcept game). It's basically Command Board but with monsters, etc. Great series.

Is there some kind of crafting system like in KH2 where you collect drops and sell for new items?

You synthesise basically all of your moves by combining ones you already have (there are 100s). That aspect of the game is actually super fun.
 

silva1991

Member
Really?

I complete disagree, for me the combat in this game was the strongest of the 3 main games (1, 2 and BBS)

That shotlock though

It's literally a weaker KH2 combat without the good parts

shotlock is OP and terrible and the fact it's in KH3 saddens me.

Having the worst boss fights even compared to DDD doesn't help.
 

Rob2K19

Member
Glad you realized that Aqua is the true MC of Birth by Sleep (because she is as stated by Tetsuya Nomura) and how great this game is because it is a numbered title after all.
 
Being a completionist makes me hate this game w/ a passion. While the combat was alright, so much repetitive shit to do in the end-game ruined it. And the fact that the only interesting character was Xehanort made most of the plot boring.
 
My favourite alongside KHII (still need to finish FM). I liked the characters, the story, the music, the gameplay, and for a PSP title it was super impressive at the time. The barren world's aren't exactly exclusive to BBS but still an issue. But I had so much fun melding commands, and yeah, Thunder Surge was the shit. That thing saved my life against the original secret boss, who is one of the cheapest bosses I've ever faced in my entire life. Actually, it probably has one of the most frustrating secret bosses in the series, and I hear the FM boss was worse?

The three path gameplay was disappointing, however. Repetitive but the characters were different enough. Just the repeating story was eh.

I really hope to see Terra back in KHIII.
 

Meowster

Member
I think it's equal to 2. It's hard to place one or the other. What might nudge 2 ahead of BBS for me personally is that I prefer 2's gameplay maybe a bit more.

Square has some real serious problems with making good prequels, but this is a huge exception. The story has been nuts since the first game so I won't even bother talking about the overall plot here, but it got the characters and moments right. It exceeds it's portable side story stigma easily. It should have easily been labeled Kingdom Hearts 3 because that's what it is.

And good luck with BBS. Ugh.
I actually loved how it managed to bring everything together but not in a ridiculous way. Yeah, Terra blessing Riku to become a Keyblade master was a bit random but I feel like it fits with how Riku interacts with Sora and Kairi in the first Kingdom Hearts. Aqua turning The Land of Departure into Castle Oblivion was incredible - I should have seen that one coming but it completely took me by surprise - as well as her advice to Sora to watch over and protect his friends becoming something that he hold to his heart deeply ever since.
If it wasn’t for exp walk I’d have never beat the game.
From what I hear, Final Mix made things a lot easier. I grinded with Terra and Ventus to about 70 because people were saying you needed to be that level to even hurt No Heart but I did just fine against him as Aqua at around level 55. I did use EXP Walk one night though and just left my controller alone lol.
 

Wagram

Member
I liked it, but having to replay 2 more times really turned me off and negatively impacted my experience with the game. Aqua's story was laughable too. Oh, they were just here? Shit, let's move on and do it over 10 more times.
 

Meowster

Member
Never played BBS,that's the only game left from 1.5 and 2.5.

From what I'm reading here it's pretty good correct? What are the things people dislike about it?
My biggest complaints were how close the camera was to your character (especially after playing the incredible Kingdom Hearts II and how far the camera respected you) and the sameness of the worlds for some of the characters. Terra and Ventus's storylines match up quite often but it is a relief with how different Aqua's is in comparison. Some people probably hate the minigames like the rhythm one. I had no issues with it myself.
Genuinely laughed out loud.

As for the rest, yeah, pretty good game. I like the story, the music (there are some absolute gems), and the volume of bosses (even though all the superbosses suck outside of No Heart), but... It's no Kingdom Hearts 1 or 2.

That said, it's a title designed for portables, and playing it on the psp at release was goddamn ridiculous. Square really did some stupid impressive things with that hardware.
What people complain about tend to be about the simplistic level design, the divisiveness of the command system, and the 3 story paths that makes you retread the game to get the whole story.

For all i might complain about it these days, it delivered a near home-console experience on the PSP, which was an incredible prospect for portable gaming back then. It also had, arguably, my favorite OST across the entire series.
Yes! I thought Shimomura really outdid herself with the Field themes in this game. Especially since I wasn't the biggest fan of some of the ones used in the Disney worlds in Kingdom Hearts II. Like The Silent Forest theme from the Enchanted Dominion, Daydream Upon Neverland, Hau'oli, Hau'oli from Stitch's planet.
 

Kinsei

Banned
The combat in BbS is awful. The command system is completely broken and actively discourages experimentation since a lot of the commands are worthless in boss fights. You can't even ignore it and play with regular combos since the regular combat was made terrible to push the commands.
 

shimon

Member
I see many people talking about retreading/repeating the game. Can someone elaborate? Do you play through the same areas with all 3 characters or something?
 
It's so good, glad you liked it. I genuinely did not expect to like it but a buddy asked if I wanted to play through it on his PSPGo together (whatever the tv one is called)... it was well worth it. I liked the characters and story a lot and it tied things together extremely well. The combat was definitely different but I also liked experimenting with all the different abilities and play styles. I am excited to replay it on the PS4 sometime before KH3 comes out!
 
I beat Terra's storyline earlier this year and got about half way through Venn's (HD Remix). I'll eventually go back and finish it, it's very fun.
 
The combat in BbS is awful. The command system is completely broken and actively discourages experimentation since a lot of the commands are worthless in boss fights. You can't even ignore it and play with regular combos since the regular combat was made terrible to push the commands.

I recall basically ignoring the command system and doing fine—I never understood the system and was content to leave it alone. This was a loooooong time ago though—I played this game when it was originally released.
 

yunbuns

Member
I beat it for the first time last December and I think that was when I realized that KH probably wasn't for me anymore. I genuinely don't understand how BBS is considered the best KH story by some people. It was pretty terrible to me from MX being obviously evil, literally everything about Terra (what an awful character), telling instead of showing a lot (ex. the game *tells* us that the main characters are friends but outside of constantly flashbacking to the same scene repeatedly and Aqua constantly saying Ven and Terra in a sad voice, I never really felt they had a great or sincere friendship.)

Honestly, I was pretty indifferent to this game after finishing it completely but as time passes I've started to gradually hate it.
 

Opa-Pa

Member
Haha, I had a similar experience, kinda. I remember being let down by the change in the battle system back when I tried the game on PSP, then I felt overwhelmed due to the game requiring you to play as all three characters and a bit weirded out by the command board.

I got the collection for PS4 this year though, and being older now and not caring as much about the writing's quality (AKA learning to embrace the ridiculousness of KH) and having enjoyed the hell out of KH2's critical mode (my first time playing it in that difficulty), I was super excited to give BBS another try, and thankfully I remembered next to nothing about what I played back then (I think I beat Aqua's story... First lol). So I looked up the intended order for the stories and went for critical mode, and god damn.

The combat is obviously designed around the PSP's button layout and it's confusing at first, but man, is it a ton of addictive fun once you fully understand it
... Farming commands and finding out new combinations for cool new ones was awesome, as was magnega and thudaga-ing the hell out of everything lmao. The difference in move sets and stats between characters was cool too, I liked Terra well enough but Ventus and Aqua were a blast. Command board is bizarre as hell but it's also extremely fun and addictive, I think I enjoyed nearly everything in BBS a whole lot EXCEPT Disney Town.

I expected the story to be incredibly stupid, but honestly I thought it was pretty good overall. Don't hate me but I found the friendship of this trio far more believable than the OG one's, and their constant misfortunes made me genuinely sad. Hell, I know many people hate Terra, but I found him a FAR more compelling Riku and I'm extremely found of him now, he's probably one of my top 5 characters in the series... Sure he did make some dumb choices, but his arc made way more sense than Riku and the way he realizes his mistakes and fights back for his friends wss touching. The whole Ventus/Vanitas/Sora thing was super unnecessary and stupid as hell though, but I still like the little guy. The unversed were a pretty poor excuse to have a heartless replacement that really made no sense though, but their designs were cool and they were fun to fight, so who cares.

Also the end of their story (for now) connects pretty interestingly with the rest of the series... Yes, connecting everything and everyone to Sora is lame, but seeing the birth of Castle Oblivion, seeing how Ventus is dormant there and how Xemnas keeps Aqua's armor (which I noticed in II FM and it confused me because I wasn't sure if it was in the original or not) I found pretty cool.

Aqua is such a boss too, what a hero, I love her.

Those barren maps lol... I know it's due to the limitations of the PSP, but I'd rather they simply made them smaller because they look ridiculous.

Anyway, I found the game awesome and it's my second favorite, only topped by KH2FM. I beat this a month and a half ago and can't wait to get the other compilation to play 3D and Fragmentary Passage.
 

Kinsei

Banned
I recall basically ignoring the command system and doing fine—I never understood the system and was content to leave it alone. This was a loooooong time ago though—I played this game when it was originally released.

Regular combos are incredibly slow and floaty and enemies can just break out of them whenever they want.

Watch this to get an idea of what I'm talking about: https://youtu.be/UhcqCIWc2wY?t=34m30s

If you're on mobile jump to 34:30
 
BBS is right there with the original game as my favorite entry in the Kingdom Hearts series. There's more flaws in BBS overall, but the high points are among the franchise's all-time greatest.

Love the gameplay in BBS and the stories for Aqua and Ven are both pretty fantastic. Terra, on the other hand, is the glaring weak point narratively. While the narrative repetition is there in all three scenarios to some extent- and as others in the thread point out, it's there for establishing the theme of how rumors and manipulation of information can deteriorate close relationships- Terra's Story is insanely obnoxious.

Practically every single world he goes to in the game, it's the same routine over and over: Terra arrives and meets a Disney villain who tricks him into doing their bidding to some extent. He eventually realizes he's getting played, has a boss fight and then leaves as he continues his paranoia over the darkness inside of him.

The concept isn't a bad one at all and it's a route I personally prefer over how the Star Wars prequels handled Anakin's fall from grace, but the execution in the game leaves a lot to be desired. There's never any real sense that Terra is trying to actually learn anything from his experiences. He never doubts anyone at all until he realizes he's being tricked.

I feel like the scenario could have been fixed up a bit, had we seen Terra grow more and more immediately suspicious of the people he interacts with over the course of the game. The villains could still end up tricking him, all they'd really need to do is put in more work for it and/or insert indicators that Master Xehanort was setting up a lot of these encounters specifically for the purpose of cultivating the darkness inside Terra's heart for the climax of the game.

But Terra aside, I adore Birth By Sleep.

I loved Aqua. I loved Ven. And goddamnit, seeing Haley Joel Osment go full HAM with his voice acting as Vanitas was a blast. You could tell that he'd always been itching to get to play a villain for once and was having the time of his life voicing Vanitas.

Blank Points is still my pick for the greatest sequence in the Kingdom Hearts series. That scene completely reinvigorated my love for the series, simultaneously reminding me so much of what I love about it before and setting the stage for the story ahead.
 

Meowster

Member
I will say that the X-Blade is probably one of the tackiest and most ridiculous weapons I’ve seen in a game though. I just remembered haha.
 
I will say that the X-Blade is probably one of the tackiest and most ridiculous weapons I’ve seen in a game though. I just remembered haha.

Oh the design is hilariously bad, but I remember grinning like a madman when it was first revealed in the game and Master Xehanort was talking about its lore.

At the time, I had been debating with a friend of mine for quite a while over the idea of an "original keyblade" that was more a sword than a key and had connections to Kingdom Hearts itself. I'm pretty sure there wasn't any real indicator in the lore up to that point of such a weapon existing, but it was fun to be able to say that I'd called it.
 

Meowster

Member
I see many people talking about retreading/repeating the game. Can someone elaborate? Do you play through the same areas with all 3 characters or something?
For the most part. All the characters go to the same worlds and there stories are unique (for the most part) but they all cross over at some point. Usually Terra’s story is the beginning, Ventus’s the middle, and Aqua is the end. Different characters have different areas on some worlds too.
 
Playing this right now too. I felt like I'm playing the wrong game. Enjoyed every single previous entry but this seems to be the weakest one. Maybe Aqua is where the story really picks up, but so far I'm halfway through Terra and finished Ventus. Story is very minimal and gameplay is not the strongest.
This is how I feel I'm right around where you are. Hate the command system compared to KH2 which was perfect. Ven was ok to play with but Terra is soooo slow and lumbering, I really dislike playing as him.
 

shimon

Member
For the most part. All the characters go to the same worlds and there stories are unique (for the most part) but they all cross over at some point. Usually Terra’s story is the beginning, Ventus’s the middle, and Aqua is the end. Different characters have different areas on some worlds too.

I can live with that as long as the combat keeps me entertained.

Since nobody answered I will ask again: Is there some kind of crafting system like in KH2 where you collect drops and sell for new items?
 

GoldStarz

Member
Like yeah the combat system is a little broken but like

It's actually fun????

Like after KH2 was such a chore because of it's dumb "no heals allowed" mp-wasting bullshit, having a game where you can just fuck off with magic was kinda awesome. I can't really speak for the shotlock though because I think I used it like once since I preferred using the commands and special moves.

I can live with that as long as the combat keeps me entertained.

Since nobody answered I will ask again: Is there some kind of crafting system like in KH2 where you collect drops and sell for new items?

Yeah, you level up and combine commands to create better or more space-efficient commands to use. It was a lot of fun to use, in my opinion.
 

MAtgS

Member
For the most part. All the characters go to the same worlds and there stories are unique (for the most part) but they all cross over at some point. Usually Terra’s story is the beginning, Ventus’s the middle, and Aqua is the end. Different characters have different areas on some worlds too.
Also different bosses for the most part.

Aqua always seems to get stuck fighting the canonically most powerful boss of any given world.
 

Opa-Pa

Member
Also different bosses for the most part.

Aqua always seems to get stuck fighting the canonically most powerful boss of any given world.

I found it cool how generally Terra would see one section of a world, Ventus would see a completely different one and then Aqua sees parts of both, if not the whole thing. This was especially true in Cinderella's.
 

Skulldead

Member
I like the overall presentation of the game, it was refreshing to see new world, Also the music was pretty cool.

My biggest problem was how unbalance the the fusion command system was. At first on critical i thought the game was perfertly balance. But when you understand what to fuse... you can break the game at like 3 world in... and everyhting became a cakewalk (except extra boss).

it was still pretty good overall !
 

Meowster

Member
Also different bosses for the most part.

Aqua always seems to get stuck fighting the canonically most powerful boss of any given world.
She always ended up getting the fun bosses anyways!

I had a much more difficult time playing with her since you can’t really grind with her unless you spend entire days unlike Ventus and Terra. Mysterious Figure wasn’t too bad minus how little damage she did compared to Ventus and Terra but the fight against No Heart had me on edge. Especially whenever she’d accidentally warp into that terrible Warp Drive.
 

Kinsei

Banned
Like yeah the combat system is a little broken but like

It's actually fun????

Like after KH2 was such a chore because of it's dumb "no heals allowed" mp-wasting bullshit, having a game where you can just fuck off with magic was kinda awesome. I can't really speak for the shotlock though because I think I used it like once since I preferred using the commands and special moves.



Yeah, you level up and combine commands to create better or more space-efficient commands to use. It was a lot of fun to use, in my opinion.

You had a ton of healing options in KH2. As for cure taking all your MP, that was for balance reasons. Instead of being able to spam it you actually needed to think about when you'd use it.
 

Meowster

Member
You had a ton of healing options in KH2. As for cure taking all your MP, that was for balance reasons. Instead of being able to spam it you actually needed to think about when you'd use it.
Yeah. I liked having a Cura on hand whenever I wanted in BBS (which is the only way you could survive the ridiculous Mysterious Figure) but the way they did it in Kingdom Hearts II worked really well in balancing everything. I didn’t used to like it but after my critical playthrough, it makes sense.
Alrighty I believe I will check it out at some point. Thx for the info GAF!
You should!
 
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