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[Dee Dee]

Disclaimer: This is my first thread and LTTP, I appreciate any messages if I violated any unwritten LTTP-laws or messed up somehow.

Also, I tried to spoiler tag everything past chapter 5, but be aware that I might imply or rage about things that give away stuff further into the game.

I liked it - there, I said it.
It's certainly more of a Professor Layton game than an Ace Attorney one, but the multi-witness mechanics were fun, especially so in the last case, and I enjoyed the trials.
The court room mechanics where clearly changed to adapt to a game with less evidence investigation, but in my opinion it worked well, even though the whole "it must have been magic!!!" schtick was horribly annoying at first.
I just proved the witness was lying, and now you are telling me that that's okay, because the witches have brainwashed them most likely... urgh.

I actually found it entertaining how witnesses and townsfolk show up over and over again at the court. A certain person who must not be named kept being questioned, and I actually enjoyed that guy - especially as I knew how he would eventually play into the case.

Spoiler

Just stop stealing evidence already!

The final case and the questioning of

Spoiler

the 10 guards at once

was incredible. I guess I have low humor standards, coming from Ace Attorney's punny names, but I laughed!
So I guess they found a good way to recycle their 3D model assets without making it seem as if they were lazy about it. I applaud Level 5!

Personally, I am more of a Phoenix than a Layton fan, and I have never fully finished any Professor Layton games (I usually get stuck on some horrible main puzzle and never bother looking it up...) - I was not prepared for the kind of plots and plot twists these throw at you.
The ultimate mystery behind Labrynthia was pretty pants, but it worked in its own way, and I am not mad at it. It's quite silly though, and handwaves away a lot of the open questions the game leaves you with. I eye-rolled pretty hard.

They were also not light handed on the fan service when they made this game, to say the least.
Phoenix and Maya working in a bakery, and Phoenix nearly punching a guy after

Spoiler

Maya is supposedly burned after a witch trial

made me a really happy Ace Attorney fan. Not to mention the

Spoiler

after credits appearance of Edgeworth

.
It's all in great jest, and as someone who also likes Professor Layton, I never felt as if he overshadowed Phoenix as some reviewers kept complaining. He's clearly in a league of his own - while Phoenix will always be a newbie lawyer getting by on bluffs and the sheer power of "believing in your friends" and stuff like this. Hell, even in Ace Attorney 5 they re-introduced him as someone who hasn't been in a court for a long time to explain his helpless behaviour that he is know for despite this being the 5th game in the series. It is meant to be, Phoenix.

Horrible prosecutors though. Just nah.

The problem with the game is, that it is not exactly the best of both worlds. The Layton puzzles are very monotone and nowhere near as diverse and interesting as I remember them from the Layton main games. There is one puzzle that the game hypes up as a great fusion between Layton puzzles and Ace Attorney turn-around logic

Spoiler

(the puzzle with the key in the ruins)

, but it falls horribly flat, and literally just unfolds into another Layton puzzle again.

The court cases are good, but rely on the witness pressing so much, that you rarely ever get to even object to things - the witnesses unravel before you as they speak, even more so as you can compare witness' statement's with each other.

I thought the last case was of proper Ace Attorney last case quality, but of course you can not match a mainline last case that will usually revolve around some dark secrets of the main characters themselves - the spin-off does not dare go there.

All in all - not bad. I would take a second game like that in a heart beat, especially seeing as they seemed to have fun with it, and shake things up a bit - at least on the Ace Attorney side. I am pretty sure the Layton fans were nowhere near as happy with that game.

Thoughts?

 

[dlcnotincluded]

I had really big doubts about this game when it was first announced. Then reading reviews, I was sure this game was gonna be bad. But being a huge AA fan and PL fan, I really wanted to see if it was actually as bad as the reviews said it was, so I finally picked it and I loved it. The voice acting is silly at times from Phoenix and Maya but overall I was glad I bought it instead of just giving in to the reviews.

 

[John Dunbar]

I had really big doubts about this game when it was first announced. Then reading reviews, I was sure this game was gonna be bad. But being a huge AA fan and PL fan, I really wanted to see if it was actually as bad as the reviews said it was, so I finally picked it and I loved it. The voice acting is silly at times from Phoenix and Maya but overall I was glad I bought it instead of just giving in to the reviews.

the game averaged 8/10 on both gamerankings and metacritic. you make it sound like it was panned.

 

[Heero5]

I absolutely loved this game! I would buy the hell out of a sequel.

 

[Gvitor]

I am pretty sure the Layton fans were nowhere near as happy with that game.

Thoughts?

Well, I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I was pretty damn happy with it. In fact, I think the ending (and overall story) is better than Layton 4-6, and I was pretty happy they went along with the original trilogy of Layton games type of storytelling

Spoiler

in which the supernatural stuff is explained with mind-boggling surreal science. That for me was a big charm of Layton games early on that kind of were diminished in the prequel trilogy.

If anything else, as also an AA fan, I felt Phoenix could use a bit more representation. Sure, we got what, 5 trials? Even then, Layton stole the spotlight way, way more, imo.

I would take 10 more of those games in a heartbeat.

 

[Tizoc]

It def. has the most humorous trials in the PW series.

 

[MrBadger]

I really enjoyed my time with this game, but the first half was definitely better.

Spoiler

Say what you will about the ending being "typical Layton" (it isn't, really) but I think they would have gotten a better story out of a world where magic was real. Ignoring how the script rewrites were obvious and the explanations were absolutely bullshit and made less sense than magic just being real in the universe, Wright was totally out of his element towards the end, and he was just along for the ride while Layton solved everything. If magic was real, both of them would be out of their element.

I could criticise this game a lot, but that's in part because I really enjoyed the world, the mechanics and especially the music. It was really good despite my issues. And visually, I liked it better than Dual Destinies. The dynamic camera in the courtroom scenes, especially.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I felt that it was very much the Professor Layton (and also Phoenix Wright) Game. It was alright I guess.

 

[NeonZ]

I generally liked the game, although the finale didn't leave the best impression. One of the elements that annoyed me how strong it pushes the

Spoiler

magic doesn't exist

theme, which might work in Layton by itself, but when Phoenix Wright has the Spirit Channeling and the Magatama, it's just a weird concept overall.

The other one is that, due to how the story turned out,

Spoiler

there was no villain in the last case, making the final break down and confession feel very unfulfilling compared to the ones in the main games

.

 

[Dee Dee]

I could criticise this game a lot, but that's in part because I really enjoyed the world, the mechanics and especially the music. It was really good despite my issues. And visually, I liked it better than Dual Destinies. The dynamic camera in the courtroom scenes, especially.

I completely agree with everything you said, especially about the music. The music was amazing!!

 

[lewisgone]

I bought the game last year and ended up liking it more than I thought I would, but I hadn't played a Layton game beforehand. Stuff like the mass inquisitions were great additions that surprised me because I was thinking that the developers would have considered the blend of series enough of a "new feature". The music was good and the characters I knew (so, Phoenix and Maya) acted just like I expected. Seeing

Spoiler

Phoenix run to help Maya when the trial messed up and Espella was about to be executed really made me happy - that scene was surprisingly intense even though Maya obviously wouldn't have died

. The ending reveal was convoluted and nonsensical but I've never completed a Layton game. To be honest, I preferred that

Spoiler

magic didn't exist

because I felt like it gave the crossover more 'weight', even though it was such a ridiculous scenario regardless.

Probably the low point in the game for me was the 'crossover puzzle' - it was never going to live up to the build up it got when it was only a single puzzle with a solution that you're guided towards. I liked the concept though since it must have been pretty hard for the developers to have Phoenix be a worthwhile in the puzzle sequences as Layton was in the court ones. They should have made a series of puzzles based on the concept that got progressively tougher, instead of leaving it at one.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I liked this game quite a bit. At the same time, I do really enjoy both of these series and this is a game where the good and bad elements of both are just mashed together.

 

[Dangerous1992]

Well, I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I was pretty damn happy with it. In fact, I think the ending (and overall story) is better than Layton 4-6, and I was pretty happy they went along with the original trilogy of Layton games type of storytelling

Spoiler

in which the supernatural stuff is explained with mind-boggling surreal science. That for me was a big charm of Layton games early on that kind of were diminished in the prequel trilogy.

If anything else, as also an AA fan, I felt Phoenix could use a bit more representation. Sure, we got what, 5 trials? Even then, Layton stole the spotlight way, way more, imo.

I would take 10 more of those games in a heartbeat.

for me it's entirely the opposite, i was tired to see the same approach after loving the prequels that felt like one big story told within a trilogy.

It's not the only disappointing point, the ending wasn't nearly as satisfying as the first 3 layton games, it was like mix some ideas of the first 3 together and see how it goes.

 

[MrBadger]

for me it's entirely the opposite, i was tired to see the same approach after loving the prequels that felt like one big story told within a trilogy.

It's not the only disappointing point, the execution of the ending wasn't nearly as good as the first 3 layton games, it was like mix some ideas of the first 3 together and see how it goes.

When you play Professor Layton and the Unwound Future again

Spoiler

with the knowledge that time travel isn't real, you notice all the hints like the clock shop extending all the way up to the sky in the background, and ultimately the reveal pushes the story forward instead of completely derailing it.

Layton VS Wright's reveal doesn't really have that. On my second play through, I was just noticing things

Spoiler

the explanation didn't cover, such as the magic statues and witches in London. Basically the entire prologue.

 

[NotLiquid]

To me this game pretty much fell apart entirely after reaching the ending.

Spoiler

My problem with it is that it feels like a game that's completely non-committal. Even though the lack of object permanence is par for the course as far as a Layton story goes it makes the crossover with Ace Attorney feel like it's only borrowed an additional game play feature at best with disregard to how the narrative beats of each series are supposed to actually meld together. Not to mention - even by Layton standards there is a myriad of plotholes that arise because of the outlandish twist the game asks you to buy into.

It's very much a Layton game that happened to have Phoenix Wright in it. I don't mind Layton's game play because I think, mechanically, there is a lot to explore by combining puzzles with investigation/cross-examination. But it doesn't really pan out, and there's only really one segment in the entire game that seems to want to try melding the idea of a mechanical crossover, but it only ends up as a sly implication of something more promising that never happens.

Ending aside, the story is also kind of... not interesting from an outset. It's a very generic setting the game takes place in, and although it has a few good characters in there, the worst crime the game commits is that it centers entirely around a character who just isn't engaging. Espella is a completely uninteresting character to follow and her bouts of zombie-esque PTSD are frustrating. She's less of a character and more of a plot device half of the time. Also the aforementioned "Layton game with Phoenix in it" is definitely felt throughout the entire game as, really, Layton is basically Batman in this game. He might as well be the protagonist because he already has everything figured out ahead of everyone else, with crazy schemes to advance the plot. The closest comparison to any of the games in each respective series I can think of is Ace Attorney 4; where we were effectively playing a story about Phoenix Wright but only through Apollo, who couldn't have been more undermined by the cast and was basically a plot vehicle. Even though Layton is definitely overall "smarter" than Nick who often bluffs his way through court, the original trailer with Layton/Phoenix in court seemed to imply there would genuinely be moments where the two were at odds.

There are good things about it though, even if it comes with some asterisks involved. The writing is still entertaining, well done and funny, with some greatly executed set piece events, even if the crossover appeal is kind of wasted by only really including the two protagonists of each series (another problem brought by the setting). The game play is still solid puzzle/contradiction fair and is still fun to do, but it feels easier than each respective series. The Witch Trials with multiple witnesses were a fantastic evolution to the trial formula but again; undone by the fact that it's just too easy, as it doesn't even ask for the player to properly perceive the witnesses and just telegraphs everything with blatant tells. It says a lot when I genuinely believe that Apollo Justice's perception system was better done in terms of difficulty than this was.

But in the end it's still a crossover of two enjoyable series despite it being a scattershot execution of it, and I have a habit of telling myself that I enjoy playing even the worst entries of each respective series. It's a 6/10 title for me that is alright but that I have no desire to replay unlike the other games. For me it was more disappointing than anything.

 

[Not75Drops]

The puzzles in the later main Layton games were becoming less logic-based and more trial and error-based anyway so I don't really mind the reduction in Puzzles overall.

I am pretty sure the Layton fans were nowhere near as happy with that game.

Well the game's plot is pretty much Layton. AA-only fans would've probably hated the twist ending, while Layton fans pretty much expected it.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Game was glorious fan service as a fan of both series, it's flawed but I honestly think I preferred it to Dual Destinies in the end.
It had that wittier writing I expect from Takumi.

Also a dope soundtrack.

 

[Tenrius]

I've been playing this game on and off for a while and it's hard to get into. I'm at Chapter 3 at the moment. The world is gorgeous and I like the sense of mystery, but the actual gameplay is just not very engaging. I felt that the two court battles I played through were some of the worst AA cases. The plot twists feel fine, but are pretty rare, and there's not much happening most of the time. For the record, I'm a big AA fan, but not so hot on Layton. Played through Curious Village and had similar issues with the story and its pacing, although I did enjoy the puzzles.

 

[Vampirolol]

This game made me hate Layton, I can't even bring myself to finish it. He just loves to slow down things with uninspired puzzles and he's always the smartest in the room but doesn't help Phoenix. Loved the fanservice but that's it: the horrible saving system made the courtroom painful, I didn't even like that new mechanic. Such a letdown, but partially expected since I only really liked the first Layton (loved every PW game btw).

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I really disliked how this game was "Professor Layton, featuring Phoenix Wright." They dumbed down Phoenix in his own arena and in every other capacity so that Layton could constantly shine and overpower the room if he was present. There was no actual "vs," Phoenix was constantly made to look subpar next to Layton, who I guess couldn't be depicted as imperfect since that goes counter to his character. Phoenix (and Ace Attorney as a whole) has a good share of goofy moments, so they let that be the primary point of contrast between both characters, which wasn't great.

Also, the ending was absolute shit. Apparently par for the course in the Professor Layton series, but man did that really not go well with me, when I was only familiar with Ace Attorney.

Still, the Ace Attorney segments of the game were great. Some of the Layton puzzles were okay—mainly the plot relevant ones—as well, but I'm not a fan of bringing the momentum to a grinding halt just to do random puzzles. It introduced multi-witness cross-examinations, which are nice, and it had dynamic camera angles in the courtroom. I also really liked the concept of magic applied to the logic of Ace Attorney; it made for the kinds of problems you wouldn't find in a regular AA game. Of course, that ending twisted all of that apart...

Oh, and yes, that soundtrack was amazing. Next to Ace Attorney 5, the models didn't look too good, but they were fine.

 

[Two Pikachus]

I loved this game so much. I waited for what seemed like forever after the game was announced. I even imported the European version since the American version was inexplicably 6 months late. I adored every moment of it.

If you're a Phoenix fan and not a Layton fan, this probably isn't the game for you. It has great courtroom stuff but very little investigation and kind of makes Phoenix look even dumber than usual. If you're a Layton fan or a fan of both series, it can range from good to amazing depending on how much you enjoy Ace Attorney. For me, it's the best thing to ever happen to either series and I need many, many more of these games to be made.

 

[Zakard]

I really liked it. Some moments were really shocking to be honest. The one thing I dislike about the ending is that it takes something away from the cases before. Great music and a fun game. I whish we could get another one, but I heard the development was insanely difficult.

 

[Man God]

It really is both of the games mashed together. If expanded either way into a full Layton or a full Phoenix Wright game it would have been among the better games in their series.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Personally I was never really bothered by the way Layton was presented compared to Wright because it's pretty much true to how both characters approach their mysteries.
Wright flying by the seat of his pants and being in the dark so to speak is practically tradition, meanwhile Layton being in the know but waiting until he's sure the pieces have come together before saying anything is his deal.

Which came together perfectly for the final stretch of court, Phoenix's role is one more linked to the players I'd say.

 

[Sebastian Suola]

I really loved this game. The story just has so much going on. Just like the greatest mystery novels or films, your mind starts to go into overdrive thinking about what might happen next and how is this all going to end etc. Super entertaining stuff!

Spoiler

The ending was, ultimately, a let down, but oh well, it was a great ride up to that point

I would rank this game as Top 1 of the Layton games and in the Top 3 of the Phoenix Wright-games. I liked it that much.

 

[The Technomancer]

Liked it a lot. Ending didn't bother me. Was super fun overall

 

[Kazerei]

I agree with everything in the OP. The puzzles aren't as good as in mainline Layton games, and the court cases aren't as good as in Ace Attorney games, but the crossover was still quite entertaining and enjoyable. The mob witness mechanic was fun, and game's alternating segments worked together well. Hopefully the somewhat lacklustre puzzles and cases haven't turned off anyone from trying a mainline Layton or Ace Attorney game.