• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

LTTP: The Last Story (and the questionable necessity of The One Who Rules All)

Golnei

Member
Like a lot of people, I overlooked this game at release in favour of Xenoblade - I'm glad I finally decided to play it now. It's now my favourite of the games Mistwalker has had a hand in - while having several prominent flaws, it still manages to do a lot of interesting things with its genre-crossing gameplay inspirations and tight focus, and crucially depict what is for the most part a very endearing and personable cast with believable and natural relationship dynamics. Unfortunately, as the game progresses, it becomes apparent that those flaws are seriously holding back its full potential, mostly in regards to its narrative - some of which are partially excusable, and one decision which utterly ruins things. It's a shame, because with a couple of tweaks, this could have been a great, cohesive RPG instead of a a pretty good game which tries its hardest to completely tank its finale.

So, starting with the gameplay; I generally felt like the game's experimentation with ARPG systems largely paid off. The options available to the player are simple, and the game generally tends towards the easy side of things, but it never feels overly mindless - the scripted, constructed set-piece like nature of combat encounters and conscious restriction of grinding constantly present new obstacles, and the similarly scripted puzzle bosses present a decent amount of variety around the basic core of gameplay - at times inviting comparisons to the original Nier, especially with how the Last Cocoon was handled. Critically, every instance of combat feels integrated into the progressing story, in that your characters will comment on and banter about their present situations and progress through each dungeon and setpiece - rather than just being handed a series of corridors and combat rooms interspersed with cutscenes, the characterisation feels naturally integrated into gameplay. Though there was a minor issue there in that it was very easy to override and cancel out conversations by progressing too far or performing certain actions in boss fights - the very lengthy conversation that accompanies the Berith illusion battle was a good example, especially since it could be cancelled out by NPC actions, while in the later Zangurak battle it was possible to simply refuse to attack so that the dialogue played out in full. Unlike a lot of ARPG systems, it also tended to feel like your allies contributed to the flow of battle and were under your more-or-less direct control - the system of diffusing magic circles and issuing direct commands allowed their abilities to comprise major parts of the battle system while still being under the player's control. The focus on Lazulis as a single hub city was also largely a success - it was a well-designed hub of a manageable size, with a decent amount of side content that didn't feel particularly boilerplate and repetitive - helped along by amusing details like the various ways you can cause citizens to slip and fall, banging your head into signs, the evolving economy, and Zael's hilariously enthusiastic reaction to having his fortune told.

Generally, the characterisation was a definite high point of the game. Zael and Calista may be exceptionally bland (but generally inoffensive) leads (however, they did sell the cliche romantic moments like the ballroom scenes, running away together after Calista slaps the Count; and the post-climax wedding - although I was constantly thinking about how much more powerful those moments would be if I liked their characters outside of them), but the supporting cast makes up for it with good-to-great voice performances and pretty naturally writtten interactions, considering the genre. Non-telegraphed missable conversations and events can make it a little tricky to get all of the important interactions and backstory details (like the source of Yurick's disfigurement and the crucial dick measuring scene), but I found them all to end up being likeable and well-rounded (to varying extents) individuals who bounced off each other really well, making use of the constant stream of conversation throughout gameplay and cutscenes to further establish their dynamics. Syrenne and Lowell's gimmicks came the closest to grating into overuse, but they still managed to be more than entertaining one-dimensional characters, with Syrenne taking the lead in the chapter in which the Lazulis knights looted the Gurak castle being a particular highlight. I'll wait until I go through my grievances with the story to go over it in greater detail, but the ways in which this aspect is undercut at times is largely tied in with those plot contortions.

The music I'm a little mixed on - it generally works with the game, and there are undeniably some strong pieces in there (such as all of Jirall's music, which can occasionally feel like refugees from a better soundtrack); but it doesn't quite elevate itself to the heights of Uematsu's best soundtracks with the exception of those handful of standout tracks. The atypical sound design choices - particularly the use of silence in dungeons and parts of the main city - were initially a bit of a surprise, but I mostly found them to be decisions that fit the game's atmosphere well. One thing that did work against the game in that regard, however; was the strange pacing of unique combat cues. Until the very last hour of the game, precious few scenarios play against anything but the game's standard combat and boss theme. It feels so needlessly repetitive, when the 'dam breaks' and suddenly Jirall, Zangurak, Zesha and Dagran have unique themes which play in succession (with Zesha and Zangurak having two); it only drives home how many opportunities there were to change things around throughout the game. It's ultimately not a huge complaint, but it was an odd choice.

The armour customisation was a fantastic system - it's been praised elsewhere frequently enough to the point it was one of the few things about the game I was aware of going in. The degree of control you get over colour and additional components, as well as the way they're tied to upgrading to keep sets relevant throughout the game while also allowing you additional visual progression as you progress; while at the same time keeping each armour piece its own item of equipment instead of a weightless cosmetic-only glamour, made it one of the best visual customisation systems - if not the best - I've ever seen in a RPG. It'd be a huge shame if no game ever tries to iterate on it. And of course, the mostly-equal male and female armour designs allow you to do this:

tumblr_messaging_oxi2nuEWAv1u64ja8_1280.png


(I also quite like what I put together for Calista, Yurick and Syrenne; although it's not quite as...striking.)

ls22bk0h.png


However, although I loved the system, there were still a couple of ways in which it fell short - the degree of control over individual pieces of equipment was great, but the overall variety left something to be desired. It's understandable, given how much detail would have been put into making those pieces customisable, but at the same time there were obvious ways they could have expanded the selection using existing assets which they didn't take. The first is making clothing variations such as Dagran's concept art outfit usable - this is particularly strange, since they were fully modeled and appeared in cutscenes, but just don't show up as usable.

tls-6.png


It's right there - modeled, textured, rigged, waiting to be used.

The other would be providing more NPC clothing articles as armour, like Zael's knight attire - things like the guardsmen's trenchcoat, the castle maids' uniform, Therius and Asthar's armour. With the same restrictions, it'd barely be any more work at all - they wouldn't have to be customisable, and the characters already use the same animation rig as the main cast.

Still, with all of that; I'd largely consider the game to be a success - those complaints are minor. Some more clothing options would be nice. It'd be good if Zael was a little more distinct. A couple more boss themes wouldn't be unwelcome. But my largest issues with the game lie in the mishandling of the story - particularly in its last act. Up until the final Gurak invasion, the game is a hamfisted but heartfelt take on well-worn RPG tropes, not doing anything particularly new but executing it decently with a likeable cast. After that point, the execution nosedives - at times, it shunts between otherwise decent set-pieces in a way which feels sewn together, and rushes toward a completely nonsensical conclusion in Dagran's sudden turn as the final boss.

While I feel like some more elaboration on the nature of the Outsider would have been nice in regards to thematic strength (having it be specifically the ark of a dying planet who constructed it as a world seed so that the wreckage of their world might eventually bring new life would make its use as a weapon of war all the more perverse, and having the Beriths and Cocoons be the corrupt remnants of that civilisation's uploaded consciousnesses warped into monstrous forms by the Outsider's split and subsequent exploitation would add some more tragedy to the proceedings while also contextualising those creatures' odd abilities, which frequently become the focus of story scenes.), but the real weakness of the main bulk of the story is the way the Gurak people are glossed over - the chapter where Zael and Syrenne bear witness to Imperial war crimes was a good start, but just a start. The game desperately needed some time spent on the Gurak continent among regular Gurak for its themes to land; even something as brief as Xenoblade's time spent on the Mechonis; and some named Gurak characters who aren't militaristic fanatics. Likewise, the frenetic pace of the last act kind of wastes what could have been some more powerful plot beats - for example, Jirall's corruption needed more than a single boss fight to breathe, despite still being a good scene on its own. But of course, that isn't the story's most significant flaw - that would be the ridiculous final plot twist and last boss.

Dagran as a morally dubious figure collaborating with the Count to do things like kill Asthar and frame Jirall worked really well - it grew out from his established characterisation and created conflict that naturally worked within the setting, Dagran as an omnipotent chessmaster with an absurdly far reaching plan trying to become God and remake the world is inane, boring nonsense. It cheapened the entire story up to that point, the characters themselves and their dynamics, and sacrificed any kind of thematic resonance in its final conflict for a cheap twist. It was undeniably the game's biggest mistake - especially considering how artificial it feels, with his sudden absence from the player party being completely unmentioned by the entire playable cast until he suddenly shows up to be the final boss - in a game which largely did a good job with the interactions between its characters, that incredibly odd decision felt all the more jarring.

The actual epilogue of the game I feel was handled very well, with the ability to freely explore the now peaceful city, walk among its now integrated residents of human and Gurak origin, and do a couple of nice climactic chapters which provide gentle closure for the cast and world, but they can't fully wash the taste of the endgame out.

Overall, that's how I'm left feeling about the game - while I enjoyed a lot of what it did, a better-constructed last act, some additional worldbuilding and less contrived final conflict would benefit it enormously; and the shadow of the game it could have been with some relatively minor changes will always hang over it.
 

jrush64

Banned
I've always maintained that this game is up there with having some of the best characters in an RPG/game. They have so much chemistry together it's crazy.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
I actually didn't know Dagran was evil (i had doubts) until he randomly went away from the party so yeah, that was weird.
 

L Thammy

Member
I was incredibly hyped for this game and can't help but love it, but I feel like the experimental nature of the gameplay was kind of its undoing. Every battle is unique, which is kind of amazing, but it also means that the game never stops feeling like a tutorial. You don't really ever have the chance to spread your wings and just decide how to apply everything you've learned.

It was also too delicate; they had the good sense to cap the experience you can get, but then they give you unlimited stat boosting items. They clearly recognized that letting the player get too strong or too weak could break the game's balance but they went ahead and let you do it anyway.

I actually didn't know Dagran was evil (i had doubts) until he randomly went away from the party so yeah, that was weird.

I thought Dagran was more sympathetic than Zael anyway. I don't care about this shy anime Aladdin stuff; let Dagran be the hero instead.
 

Golnei

Member
I thought Dagran was more sympathetic than Zael anyway. I don't care about this shy anime Aladdin stuff; let Dagran be the hero instead.

Up until the 'twist', I thought he was being presented as a decently coherent and sympathetic character as well - when his more suspicious actions appeared to be the result of carrying out the Count's dirty work instead of executing his 'become God' keikaku, it placed him in conflict with Zael while not trying to act against him; and there were so many other ways they could have resolved that in a more satisfying way as a secondary protagonist instead of an afterthought final boss.
 

blackjon24

Member
Really wish this game hadn't been released as a wii exclusive I definitely would have played it. As a PS3 only owner at the time I couldn't stand that mistwalker was making games for everything else but the PS3 😂
 

Astral Dog

Member
Its one of my favorite Wii games and a bit underrated, it was fun to combat enemies, likeable characters and same localization team, Perfect contrast after Xenoblade .

While only XC gets to 'masterpiece' /classic on the Wii, The Last Story was an unique and memorable game at least to me


Yeah Dagran sucked, Zangurak was a better antagonist Dagran should have been dealt before him
 

L Thammy

Member
Regarding the music, I've heard someone claim that it might have been the arrangement. Or something? I don't really know anything about how you make music, I'm just parroting this argument. But the claim was that the music as it was composed was strong, but the music we actually hear is the issue. Maybe it was an excuse to shift the blame from Uematsu to Yoshitaka Suzuki.


The sense that I got with the game's story is that it was trying to pull off a full JRPG story in what is structured as an action game. There are a whole bunch of things going on in the story: Manamia,'s forest, the Outsider, Zael and Calista's love story, Dagran, the Gurak, Yurick. This isn't bad, but each other those need to have time invested on them in order to feel fulfilled. For a more slow-paced traditional RPG you could have lots of big talking head dialogue scenes during the adventuring, you could have multiple towns where you could spend a ton of time exploring and talking to people. But you didn't, so instead it felt like most of the things that were introduced were resolved before they really went anywhere.

Basically, the whole game felt like it was deliberately pared down and streamlined the gameplay and scope, but the story didn't get the same treatment.
 
.I've accepted that a sequel will probably never happen but I'd love a Switch version. The game barely ran on the Wii as it is.
I've always maintained that this game is up there with having some of the best characters in an RPG/game. They have so much chemistry together it's crazy.
Fully agree...
 

moolamb

Member
I wish there was some kind of sequel or follow-up, building on all the great design they did in this game. I have such fond memories of its battle system. And of course the romantic touches!
 

thefro

Member
Regarding the music, I've heard someone claim that it might have been the arrangement. Or something? I don't really know anything about how you make music, I'm just parroting this argument. But the claim was that the music as it was composed was strong, but the music we actually hear is the issue. Maybe it was an excuse to shift the blame from Uematsu to Yoshitaka Suzuki.

It's how the music is used in game.

You hear the battle/boss themes a bunch, but with no music in the dungeons, only one town, and no overworld you're not constantly hearing different themes to get stuck in your head. Just the town & castle have themes while you're running around.

The individual character themes you might hear once in a cutscene, instead of multiple times like in a FF game. I believe there's bits on the soundtrack that aren't even used in game.

Some of those are intentionally composed/arranged to be different than the traditional Uematsu style as well.
 

Golnei

Member
.I've accepted that a sequel will probably never happen but I'd love a Switch version. The game barely ran on the Wii as it is.

Some kind of touch-up would be nice visually as well - it looks decent on Dolphin, but certain textures are very low-res - a lot of the finer armour detail becomes kind of messy as a result, with the knight armour being a particularly bad example. And then there's Zangurak's face, which is the focal point of several shots and looks like this:

zfo6jhw.png


The FFXII HD approach would be fantastic for this game.

Regarding the music, I've heard someone claim that it might have been the arrangement. Or something? I don't really know anything about how you make music, I'm just parroting this argument. But the claim was that the music as it was composed was strong, but the music we actually hear is the issue. Maybe it was an excuse to shift the blame from Uematsu to Yoshitaka Suzuki.

His style is notably different from Uematsu's usual collaborators, but I wouldn't necessarily 'blame' the soundtrack's issues on him - especially regarding sound design and the use of music. The resulting soundtrack has been criticised for being too 'generic, cinematic and Western', which I don't entirely agree with - aside from cutscene cues that do adopt a more cinematic style, it seems largely in keeping with Uematsu's other work.

It's interesting to compare Suzuki's influence here with what he later contributed to FFXV, responsible for arranging and interpreting the work of another massively renowned JRPG composer along with his own compositions. Most of his pieces there predictably outdo equivalents on The Last Story's soundtrack (the production values alone are incomparable), but I kind of think that Jirall's theme is a better piece compared to Ardyn's equivalent.

(Also, speaking of XV; Calista got to slap back.)

The sense that I got with the game's story is that it was trying to pull off a full JRPG story in what is structured as an action game. There are a whole bunch of things going on in the story: Manamia,'s forest, the Outsider, Zael and Calista's love story, Dagran, the Gurak, Yurick. This isn't bad, but each other those need to have time invested on them in order to feel fulfilled. For a more slow-paced traditional RPG you could have lots of big talking head dialogue scenes during the adventuring, you could have multiple towns where you could spend a ton of time exploring and talking to people. But you didn't, so instead it felt like most of the things that were introduced were resolved before they really went anywhere.

Basically, the whole game felt like it was deliberately pared down and streamlined the gameplay and scope, but the story didn't get the same treatment.

There was a definite sense of the balancing act between a large story scope and the game's structure, but until the final stretch I thought they were balancing it pretty well - each member of the principal cast received some kind of focus, and the essential points of each subplot largely got across. That's why restructuring things a little more to allow the groundwork to be properly developed would have been so effective - it wouldn't have needed much. When Zael was lost at sea, I was convinced that the Gurak warship which picked him up would turn out to be staffed by deserters who'd be sympathetic to his cause; it'd be such an obvious point to bring that element in. And the necessary background to contextualise some of the world elements could even come across in something as inelegant as a backstory dump book, the dialogue of friendly Gurak NPCs (which are already present in the postgame, and which would only require lines of text), or the exposition vomit the Sorceress gives you. The thing about the Beriths and the Cocoon I gave as an example would only have needed a couple of suspicious garbled voice lines during the battles themselves, to be clarified by later information - a small amount of work for a richer overall story scope.

So I agree that the confined scope did present some issues in how the narrative was delivered, but I don't think it would have been impossible to resolve things in a satisfying way within it.
 

Kumomeme

Member
i love the combat of this game
its unique and i think it revolutionary
its action based but not required to button mashing and capable of deliver common jrpg standard of tactical and the combat also take advantages of the surrounding

if i not mistaken,i've read interview with hironobu sakaguchi that he hoping that the combat system could be jrpg genre new kind of standard like how the turn based system is

before he even joking about the sequel and mentioning ps4
really hope for sequel...the combat mechanics got lot of potential

..and we can shoot banana on street
 

Kevtones

Member
The Last Story is one of my favorite JRPGs, flaws and all. It takes a lot of risks and mostly works. It's charming and has a pretty interesting structure for replayability too.

Would love a sequel or remaster.
 
Really underrated game and I’d love to replay it with an HD Remake, though a sequel would also be great. Definitely one I’d recommend.
 
It's definitely a highlight for me in a era of console JRPG drought. I absolutely adore the battle system and the town design. I think the story is avg old school JRPG plot and isn't necessarily that good, but there is certain old FF charm to it. And characters are generally likable. I cannot agree more with the Dagran final arc though, he would be much more interesting just as a character with a tragic pass who makes questionable decisions instead of the undercooked mastermind nonsense.

I see you are super fan with the armor customizations. I only really use that hide part function so completely when I equip them with the dragon armors(is it what it's called? Don't remember) because that was almighty ugly.

I secretly hoped for a sequel when Xenoblade X was announced. That wish is apparently dead now.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
This was originally going to be a modern-day noir love story before they decided to go generic fantasy for money. Makes me sad, but so be it. It's still a great game despite the changes.
 

Seik

Banned
I...think I finished it but I'm not even sure, it's been more than one year since I gave the final shot.

I made the OT back then but just...fucking choked on it as I was deeply obsessed by Xenoblade. So I ended up doing it bits by bits over the years.

Last thing I remember is beating Jirall on a ghost-boat. Jirall, who was possessed by a sword and there was an awesome boss theme for the fight. Don't remember much else, maybe fighting a big monster on which Calista could cast a summon...I think?

I should really just do it all over again. It must run really better on Dolphin now than years ago, too, it was kind of a mess.
 

Golnei

Member
This was originally going to be a modern-day noir love story before they decided to go generic fantasy for money. Makes me sad, but so be it. It's still a great game despite the changes.

That concept art was for an unrelated non-canon story as far as I know (like the Drakengard school AU art from Fujisaka) - the actual concept art for "The Last World" seems to depict something close to the final game, but in a standard JRPG setting more on the sci-fi side of things, likely with the Gurak as actual aliens, which seems a safe extrapolation to their Predator-like framing.
 

Byvar

Member
The Last Story is the best Wii RPG I played. I much preferred it over Xenoblade because unlike that game, The Last Story had NO padding (which I wish more games aimed for) and many details that made its world come to life (especially Lazulis City). It does have flaws (mostly that the Dagran twist is indeed poorly executed -- would be much better if the cast realized he's disappeared and looking for him became part of the story) but I absolutely love it anyway. I think the reason it didn't do all that well was that it came out close to Xenoblade.

The game definitely deserves a remaster and a sequel (one that is not part of a mobile game).
 

Lynd7

Member
Yep really enjoyed it back in 2011 or so. I actually played this one instead of Xenoblade..

For those that haven't played it, it's paced quite well and only takes like 20 hours. Much shorter than the 100 or so hours I've heard Xenoblade can go for.
 
Top Bottom