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[Garrett Hawke]

I decided to make this thread because I finished the game yesterday for the third time (once on PC the year it came out, once when it came out on PS4 and again a few days ago). Something about this game has stuck with me since the first play, and every time I keep coming back to it expecting it to be different, and finding what makes me love it all over again. It's a little disjointed, so I tried to categorise my impressions and thoughts so as to make them as readable as possible, I hope it worked! My impressions form the first few categories, whereas my analysis and thoughts round out the bottom (imo, that's the more interesting bit).

• First of all, I played the Definitive Edition on PS4, and the game is absolutely gorgeous. There is so much detail in the environment, particularly in the forest sections, and the game has a super cool aesthetic that mish-mashes ancient Japanese history and 40s technology together. It really works and creates one of the most unique settings in gaming.
• Animation can be bit funny - Lara in particular often looks like she’s going from keyframe to keyframe as opposed to something like The Last of Us or Uncharted, wherein the animation blends smoothly with only the occasional warping as the character shifts to be in place for an animation. However, it’s not ugly, and it adds an almost cartoon style to Lara - most games feature exaggerated animations in order to properly convey to the player what the character is doing, but Lara is very much larger than life. It works imo and it still looks fantastic.
• Another issue is that other character models aren’t anywhere near as detailed as Lara which is kind of expected but the gulf could be a lot smaller (although it doesn’t seem to be from what we’ve seen of Rise of the Tomb Raider - Lara still looks way, way better than Jonah).
• The music is absolutely fantastic, it’s very similar to NBC’s Hannibal (RIP) in that it’s more atmospheric, but there are times when the orchestra kicks in during impactful moments and it perfectly enhances the on screen action.
• Additionally, the tone of this game is absolutely awesome. It's this really exciting mix of survival horror, with some fantasy elements and a lot of action. This allows the game to have some fantastically designed enemies, like the huge samurai warriors, the crazed fanatics and even the Sun Queen herself. It's quite unique in my opinion and I really hope they keep a similar tone for Rise of the Tomb Raider.

• Lara feels amazing to control. She’s super fluid and she seems to have movement driven animation rather than animation driven movement, meaning that she’s incredibly responsive and there were very few moments when she couldn’t do what I wanted her to do.
• Combat is fantastic - not only did they absolutely nail the shooting, the “scrambling” mechanic is also pretty cool and the stealth is awesome - until you get seen by one person, then it’s all over. It would be cool if in Rise of the Tomb Raider they fix this and allow you a brief window to take out the person who’s seen you (like in Arkham Knight), or if they allow you to be able to lose the enemy - something you can’t do in Tomb Raider. Once you’ve been seen, everyone knows where you are - forever.

• The puzzles are really fun but they can be quite simple. For example, the wind-based tomb that a lot of people seemed to have trouble with is actually incredibly simple, as there is a really obvious tell during the puzzle which tells you exactly when you should be doing things. Most of the puzzles are like this - they’re pretty much always a one stage puzzle where you have to do one or two things in one room and then that’s it. Compared to something like Uncharted 2, where you could be in a room for a good 10-15 minutes doing layer after layer of the puzzle, it’s a bit of a shame.
• The platforming is mostly split into two sections, and they’re both pretty fun. There’s the more traditional platforming where Lara has to move up a wall or whatever, and then there’s the “action platforming” which is when stuff is exploding all around Lara and you basically just have to run forward and jump at the right time. These sequences are often used in comparison gifs between TR2013 and the older games, as if to show that there’s no depth to the game anymore - something which annoys me, as these sections don’t REPLACE proper platforming, rather they are there in addition to proper platforming sequences.

• I feel like the story comes under criticism a lot - particularly the writing. I really have to disagree with this, but I’ll get to it a bit later. The scenario that’s been set up is a great one - I love the disaster feel to it, and the characters behave and react as you would expect them to in a scenario like this (with the exception of Lara). The setting is awesome and unique as well, taking into account Japanese mythology, WWII history and Chinese politics. Visually this makes the island really distinctive, and the clash of WWII military hardware surrounded by ancient Japanese temples is a cool aesthetic. While the side characters aren’t particularly special, I did like the camera sequences where you saw life aboard the Endurance, as it helps establish relationships as you go. I also particularly like the Lara/Sam relationship - it’s really refreshing to have both main characters being female, and they’re both written well.

• So the main issue seems to be the way in which Lara goes from sobbing over her first kill to killing people moments later without a word. A lot of people attribute this to the writing, however I would propose that it is a failing of both the writing and the game design being unable to reconcile, neither of them bothering to try and address this properly. Lara’s transformation from fresh faced gap year student to survivor isn’t that unreasonable, given the circumstances - it’s literally do that or die, and she has all of the survival skills to back it up. By the end of the game, Lara is screaming threats as she goes into battle. At the very end of the game, Lara decides that she needs to isolate herself from other people and that she can never go back to normal life, now that she’s seen what she’s seen. Additionally, the very first trailer for Rise had Lara in therapy, something which is very rarely touched upon in games. The idea that Lara could snap in a combat zone and find it difficult to readjust to normal life is a perfectly valid idea, and I’m glad that they seem to be going down this route as it’s a very interesting one. However, this narrative is at odds with the gameplay somewhat - instead of gradually ramping up the number of combat situations Lara is in, the game designers have her immediately start fighting large groups of enemies as soon as she’s done with her first kill. This doesn’t seem to take into account the story at all, as no other death in the game has anywhere near as much impact on Lara. I don’t think it's fair to place the blame solely on the writing - yes, the writing could’ve been adjusted to accommodate for early level design, but the level design could also have been adjusted for the writing.
• In my opinion, this could’ve been solved by having her fight very few enemies at the start, before gradually ramping it up, thus matching it with her growing survival instinct. Alternatively, early combat encounters after her first kill could’ve involved her sneaking through most of them until she is literally forced into combat. There is a stealth section directly after her first kill, but it’s quite short and from then on it’s back to killing.

One thing I see get thrown around a lot with this game is how it’s basically Uncharted with a Tomb Raider skin. You can absolutely see the influence of Uncharted on the game, it’s undeniable. And yet I feel like it does forge it’s own way quite a bit, and may have even influenced Uncharted 4 (alternatively, Crystal and Naughty Dog may both have just seen the logical progression of how Uncharted's gameplay could be improved and coincidentally have headed in the same direction).

• Tomb Raider 2013’s combat is leagues ahead of the first three Uncharted games (haven’t played 4 yet, obviously). Combat has always kind of been a weak point of the Uncharted series imo - a distraction added to make the set piece even more impressive or to pad out the game. In Tomb Raider, combat is one of the stars of the show - Lara has many ways of dispatching enemies, including using the environment in unique ways, and as she upgrades her equipment and skills she has even more options and variety. In most encounters, you can choose your approach; stealth is an option (far more than in Uncharted games), you can dispatch enemies by pretty much only using the environment against them, you can face them guns blazing, or you can tackle them with melee. Combat encounters feel super open in this way, rather than Uncharted’s shooting galleries. Additionally, the shooting in TR2013 controls way better than the Uncharted games. It’s super slick to line up a head shot, and the feedback is much more punchy and impactful. TLOU did a lot to alleviate the floaty-ness of Uncharted combat, and U4 looks to make it even better, but controlling Lara during combat just feels really great.
• Tomb Raider 2013 features hub based world design, allowing you to go back to areas you previously visited with new tools and explore. I absolutely adore this kind of level design (another excellent example being Arkham Asylum) as it allows you to see the same levels in completely new ways, and gives a strong feeling of accomplishment when you come back to it later and you’re able to do everything or get around easier. While Uncharted 4 doesn’t seem to be giving up being completely linear, in both demos shown so far the level design was far more open than any Uncharted level previously. The forest demo in particular reminded me of Tomb Raider 2013 - multiple ways to complete the encounter, multiple ways to traverse the environment, and the ability to avoid the encounter altogether (if you’re careful).
• Tomb Raider 2013 also features a lot of destructible cover - I particularly remember in one room, pretty much everything could be destroyed, including the floors of upper levels. This means that you have to constantly move between cover or you’ll be left out in the open. There is some destructible cover in the first three Uncharted games, but it’s ramped up a lot here and it feels really good.
• Tomb Raider 2013 was criticised a lot for Lara being a “psycho killer” at the end of the game - something which Nathan Drake also gets accused of a lot. However, I would propose that both of them make sense given the tone of the games they’re in. For example, Nate kills hundreds of people - but they’re basically cardboard cut outs. Uncharted clearly tries to ape the feel good fun of the Indiana Jones films - there is no consequence to killing the goons because they’re not really there for any purpose other than that. You don’t feel bad for them because they scream comically, have really stupid conversations when they think they’re alone, and don’t display any of the depth of a human being. On the other hand, in Tomb Raider, the goons are malicious - many of them will talk about wanting to “kill that bitch”, get “revenge”, kidnap her - etc. Lara responds in kind - these goons are out to get her, and by the end she’s out to get them. They’ve killed most of her friends, tried to kill her multiple times, and have her best friend hostage - it makes sense for her to be angry with them. You don’t feel bad for the goons in this game because they are terrible people, unable to listen to reason and openly malicious.

• This game is deeply feminist. I love it. Crystal transformed Lara from the sex icon into something far more appropriate and relevant for the modern gaming industry. Lara’s smart, driven, caring, sometimes funny and generally self confident. There was absolutely something to be said about old Lara in terms of feminism, in that she was at least always going on journeys of her own accord rather than having them thrust upon her, and she was pretty much always in control of the situation. However there were some serious presentational problems with old Lara, particularly her chest (which was apparently a “slider error” which nobody bothered to correct. Smh) and the way in which she was handled by the IP owner, who massively capitalised on the sex aspect of her design. I love that Crystal seems to have a lot more respect for new Lara - I can’t even imagine new Lara being used as a digital pin-up with the permission of Crystal.
• The story is about a woman, of course, but it brings up some really interesting points about womanhood. For example, the whole Priestess Hoshi/Queen Himiko subplot is super interesting and looks at the unique expectations and burdens placed upon women in ancient Japan, some of which is still relevant today. As a quick summary, Hoshi is taken to live with the Sun Queen, Himiko, without being told why and is raised as one of her Priestesses. Himiko chooses Hoshi to be her next vessel, and Hoshi decides that it is her duty to her other Priestesses and future daughters of this society to kill herself during the transfer so as to prevent Himiko from inhabiting anyone else. I really enjoyed this sub plot (which ends up working it’s way into the main plot) because very few games focus on the expectations placed upon women by their families and societies. Obviously today nobody is being sacrificed to the mystical Sun Queen, but there are still many societies and cultures today in which women are treated as commodities or objects, used as bargaining chips or to fulfil goals.
• Additionally, being able to choose who you want to be as a woman is a recurring theme in this game. As well as Hoshi, there is Lara, who struggles with the guilt of being the one responsible for bringing them to the island. Lara eventually accepts that the guilt she feels is misplaced as there was no way she could have known it would lead to this. At the end of the game, Lara also decides that this is who she was meant to be - that the sense of adventure that she felt but always ignored is now overpowering. The most feminist part of this game is the fact that Lara is treated as a real human being - the Rise of the Tomb Raider therapy trailer in particular shows just how much thought has gone into Lara as a personality that is both influenced by and subjected to Lara's experiences.

• This is one of the most impressive things Crystal did in my opinion. Rebooting a character and having that design go on to be as iconic as the original design is incredibly difficult. And yet Crystal managed it. There are two tools which I now mentally associate with Lara Croft: her bow, and her pickaxe. Both tools grow and evolve through the course of the game as Lara does - both start as weak, makeshift creations, and by the end of the game have been replaced and modified into ultra strong, ultra precise tools, forged in battle.
• Both tools are integrated very well into the game - they’re used as both stealth weapons, melee weapons, and devices used in puzzles and traversal. Lara’s bow is probably the most important piece of equipment she has, and it’s also one of the best - it’s very easy to pull off headshots with it, and there’s a perk which allows you to reclaim arrows after use, making the bow a great weapon for early on in the game (and familiarity with it is likely to make people keep using it). The pickaxe meanwhile can be upgraded to make climbing easier, stealth takedowns even quicker, and allow Lara to open lock boxes containing useful salvage. They also both show up firmly on her silhouette, which is apparently an important part of character design.
• By integrating both items so well and making the player use them at pretty much every opportunity, they are cemented in the player’s mind as objects that are associated with Lara Croft.

Tomb Raider 2013 is honestly one of last gen’s best games, and it’s definitely the best on PS4 (if the DE had come to PC I would’ve said that, but honestly, even with all the res and framerate enhancements you want on PC, it’ll never look as good as the PS4 version). I really feel like this game was underrated a bit by the community. It doesn’t have a story as strong as The Last of Us, but in terms of gameplay it feels fantastic and it is one of the best survival experiences of last gen. The semi open level design and combat are absolutely excellent, and I honestly can’t think of a single game on the PS360 (and even the PS4/X1) that controls quite as well as this game. Crystal had a massive task in front of them to rescue this franchise, and they absolutely managed. Rise of the Tomb Raider looks to be addressing many of this game’s criticisms, and I can’t wait to see how it turns out.
When it comes to Tomb Raider 2013, I get that it’s not like old Tomb Raider. But it doesn’t try to be, and imo, it stands by itself as a phenomenal and unique experience, inspired but not derivative, cinematic but not on rails - not perfect, but close.

 

[Pinky]

This is the only Tomb Raider game I've ever played, so it's understandable that I cannot relate to the veterans of the series who were turned off by the reboot(not all, but some). Regardless, I enjoyed the game very much and want to pick up the DE for PS4. I played the original on 360.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

But, don't you know? This game is actually shit! It's only a generic TPS and SUCKS! Only REAL Tomb Raider fans will get this. 😜

Tomb Raider 2013 is one of my favorite games of all time. Prior to TR, RE4 was the game I had replayed the most amount of times. But I have replayed TR2013 about a dozen times since February 2013, and I will play it again too.

To me, the game feels so magical and attractive. It gives me that incredible feeling of lonely scenery like Shadow of the Colossus or Metroid Prime, while giving me a really visceral archery experience that is simply unparalleled.

No other game has given me the opportunity to quietly explore a nature in between punctuation points of meaningful action. Clearing an area of hostiles and then seeing the island - uncorrupted and pure - is something else. Hearing the wind, looking at the cliffs, looking down at the ocean. It's one of the strongest senses of true location I can think of.

I love it. More than Uncharted, for sure.

 

[Majestad]

Great game. It beats Uncharted in many ways (level design, combat, controls).

The things I want to see in the sequel are more puzzles and less brain-dead AI.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

This is the only Tomb Raider game I've ever played, so it's understandable that I cannot relate to the veterans of the series who were turned off by the reboot(not all, but some). Regardless, I enjoyed the game very much and want to pick up the DE for PS4. I played the original on 360.

I absolutely adore it. I have played some of the older games, and I love the Angelina Jolie movies (even though they're kind of bad tbh) but I do feel like a lot of people were too harsh on it because of the TR name. The DE on PS4 is honestly fantastic, performance can be quite variable in some of the larger levels (never falls below 30 though) but it is absolutely gorgeous and it feels great to control. If you're coming from the 360 version you'll notice a huge improvement

But, don't you know? This game is actually shit! It's only a generic TPS and SUCKS! Only REAL Tomb Raider fans will get this. ��

Tomb Raider 2013 is one of my favorite games of all time. Prior to TR, RE4 was the game I had replayed the most amount of times. But I have replayed TR2013 about a dozen times since February 2013, and I will play it again too.

To me, the game feels so magical and attractive. It gives me that incredible feeling of lonely scenery like Shadow of the Colossus or Metroid Prime, while giving me a really visceral archery experience that is simply unparalleled.

I love it. More than Uncharted, for sure.

I'm sorry, I'll ask a mod to take down this post now.

But seriously, it has this amazing atmosphere that is reinforced by every component of the game (visuals, sound, gameplay - it just all comes together).

Great game. It beats Uncharted in many ways (level design, combat, controls).

The things I want to see in the sequel are more puzzles and less brain-dead AI.

Those are my two main hopes for the sequel too the puzzles in this really aren't very difficult at all, and I assume it was to widen the appeal, but some of them were way too easy. I really hope they ramp up the difficulty of puzzles in the sequel, and if there are more optional tombs, they should be much, much harder.

 

[Ralemont]

Yeah I loved this game. Gameplay wise you covered my one big gripe, which is the inability to restealth after being spotted. Considering how easy stealth looks in Rise I doubt this will come up often, though.

I don't agree it's the best game on PS4, though. The Last of Us Remastered is better. That's not really a diss against TR, though, since TLOUR is such an excellent game.

 

[thatJohann]

Yup. One of my favorite games ever.

 

[Pinky]

I absolutely adore it. I have played some of the older games, and I love the Angelina Jolie movies (even though they're kind of bad tbh) but I do feel like a lot of people were too harsh on it because of the TR name. The DE on PS4 is honestly fantastic, performance can be quite variable in some of the larger levels (never falls below 30 though) but it is absolutely gorgeous and it feels great to control. If you're coming from the 360 version you'll notice a huge improvement

Now I have the itch to pick this up ASAP! Just checked Amazon and I can get a new copy for like $26(with my wife's Prime membership, of course ). Really looking forward to it!

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Yeah I loved this game. Gameplay wise you covered my one big gripe, which is the inability to restealth after being spotted. Considering how easy stealth looks in Rise I doubt this will come up often, though.

I don't agree it's the best game on PS4, though. The Last of Us Remastered is better. That's not really a diss against TR, though, since TLOUR is such an excellent game.

Whoops! I meant that the best version of the game was on PS4, I just noticed my wording wasn't super clear :/

I haven't seen the newest gameplay demo of ROTTR in full yet, but I think I'm going to go take a look now what I did see looked good, and they seemed to have taken an influence from TLOU (which is only a good thing imo)

Yup. One of my favorite games ever.

I'm glad someone feels the same

Now I have the itch to pick this up ASAP! Just checked Amazon and I can get a new copy for like $26(with my wife's Prime membership, of course ). Really looking forward to it!

You're in for a treat tbh, I bought it when it came out on PS4 at near full price and I didn't regret it one bit. It really is one of those proper "definitive" editions, they added a ton of new details to the environment, completely reworked Lara's character model, a lot of lighting effects... It's awesome.

 

[Ralemont]

Also, who needs dual pistols when you have this:

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Also, who needs dual pistols when you have this:

Tell them! I loved when she picked up the dual pistols at the end of the game, it felt like a really well done throwback, but as far as I'm concerned bow > dual pistols tbh.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Also, who needs dual pistols when you have this:

Exactly. The bow is amazing. Fantastic weapon that is symbolically tied in to Lara's own wilderness proficiency. It's the perfect signature weapon. It is a versatile tool.

Nobody should miss duel pistols. Especially not the people complaining TR2013 was "a generic third person shooter." The callback in the finale was more than enough. Using the duel pistols wouldn't have been more enjoyable than that moment, which wouldn't have been able to exist otherwise.

TR is better in almost every way if you only use the bow and forgo guns entirely. It feels more "right" to me. That's how I play it now.

 

[Rip]

This is one of the few games I can just replay over and over and never get tired of it. Alot like uncharted 2 is for me. Just great fun.

 

[Jucksalbe]

I liked it way more than I thought I would as a fan of the old games. Not my favorite in the series, but still a very positive surprise. So far I only played through it on PS3 when I got it through PS+, but I bought the DE on PS4, so I'll play it again soon.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Thought it was pretty forgettable. I would go more into why I think that but I don't want to be the asshole who crashes the party.

 

[Ralemont]

One negative that sadly looks like it's been increased if anything in Rise: set pieces. I got so sick of the automated stuff in Tomb Raider. I just wanted more chances to play around with the base combat, but instead I was constantly being forced into scripted situations. Like one or two in a game is fine, but it felt like it happened every level. Buildings being destroyed, scaffolding falling, water tumbling, etc. It wasn't as fun as Uncharted and just got really old.

 

[InsaneTiger]

Awesome how Lara's character arc ends at tower right? Then you got like a bazillion hours more of "Your can do this Lara, you're a Croft!"

Shove the pickaxe in his throat!

 

[Pinky]

You're in for a treat tbh, I bought it when it came out on PS4 at near full price and I didn't regret it one bit. It really is one of those proper "definitive" editions, they added a ton of new details to the environment, completely reworked Lara's character model, a lot of lighting effects... It's awesome.

Ooohhhhhh yeeeaaaaaahh

Also, who needs dual pistols when you have this:

The bow feels so good. The mechanics work perfectly. You can almost feel the tension when pulling the arrow back. And the release? Feels so good.

 

[Setsuna]

Tell them! I loved when she picked up the dual pistols at the end of the game, it felt like a really well done throwback, but as far as I'm concerned bow > dual pistols tbh.

That was the worse tease in the entire game "Here's two pistols" a few minutes later "what two pistols?"

 

[Ralemont]

There appears to be a serious lack of bow headshot gifs on the internet. This must be rectified.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

This is one of the few games I can just replay over and over and never get tired of it. Alot like uncharted 2 is for me. Just great fun.

Same, I'm looking forward to replaying UC2 when it's out on PS4 this year as well.

I liked it way more than I thought I would as a fan of the old games. Not my favorite in the series, but still a very positive surprise. So far I only played through it on PS3 when I got it through PS+, but I bought the DE on PS4, so I'll play it again soon.

Again, it's awesome, there's a world of difference between the two.

Thought it was pretty forgettable. I would go more into why I think that but I don't want to be the asshole who crashes the party.

That's a shame

One negative that sadly looks like it's been increased if anything in Rise: set pieces. I got so sick of the automated stuff in Tomb Raider. I just wanted more chances to play around with the base combat, but instead I was constantly being forced into scripted situations. Like one or two in a game is fine, but it felt like it happened every level. Buildings being destroyed, scaffolding falling, water tumbling, etc. It wasn't as fun as Uncharted and just got really old.

Tbh I did really like those action sequences, as long as there was enough time in between them, as they do lose a bit of impact when there are quite a few in short succession. But on the other hand, I really liked how almost disaster-film esque some of the sequences were - for example, after Lara sets a signal for the plane, there's like a 5 minute sequence which is super tense and action packed. I personally loved that, because it was interactive enough to not feel like I was in a cutscene, but automated enough to give it the "cinematic" feel.

Awesome how Lara's character arc ends at tower right? Then you got like a bazillion hours more of "Your can do this Lara, you're a Croft!"

Shove the pickaxe in his throat!

I disagree. Lara's character develops throughout the entire game, and while there is a disconnect between the combat encounter design and Lara's character arc for the first half of the game or so, Lara still develops. She never takes "pleasure" in killing - instead, she just gets more and more willing to do whatever it takes to survive. She also gets angrier and angrier as more of her friends are killed, which I think is an expected response. This is reflected in the ending cutscene when she stands away from the rest of the survivors, who are comforting each other, while Lara stands confident, by herself at the front of the ship, talking about how the island changed her and how she can't go back. That coupled with the therapy from the ROTTR announcement trailer suggests to me that Crystal have taken note of that criticism and are looking to address it in the story.

 

[Oneself]

I bought the DE on PS4 when it came out, I honestly wasn't expecting much but it was sold a little cheaper than other games and it looked good (and cuz there were no gamez!) ... But I came away very impressed.

The story is mostly terrible (and so is the plot) but 3 things definitely aren't praised enough about that game.

1) the controls are amazing, feel good and are perfectly responsive. Better than most if not all 3rd person action games IMO.

2) the combat mechanics, again, are better than most 3rd person action games.

3) but the most underrated aspect though, definitely is THE LEVEL DESIGN. Each parts, parkour, shootouts etc. are really tightly and impressively well designed. It makes searching for collectables and secrets just plain fun. No part felt like filler (except the terrible last small part) and most things, design-wise, make sense and look believable.

 

[tbd]

First hour was very promising, then it turned into a snoozefest. It's just missing variety, something its successor will apparently have (we've already seen a desert, a snowy area, a jungle and so on).

Gameplay and level design were both terrible, imo. You can't miss those jumps, gaps are never even wide enough to make it at least look dangerous and you stick to the walls like gum. The only puzzles are inside those optional tombs and there only are around five, IIRC.

It's really just another cover shooter with backtracking/open areas. At least the hype the reboot gets for some reason isn't as excessive and "in your face" as Uncharted's which is great.

 

[AlternativeUlster]

I played Tomb Raider on the Ps3 when it was one sale and it is probably my top 5 Ps3 games I have ever played. To be honest though, out of the Uncharted games I have only tried to play 3 and got so bored within the first hour, I deleted it since it was taken up like 50 GB on my hard drive.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I bought the DE on PS4 when it came out, I honestly wasn't expecting much but it was sold a little cheaper than other games and it looked good (and cuz there were no gamez!) ... But I came away very impressed.

The story is mostly terrible (and so is the plot) but 3 things definitely aren't praised enough about that game.

1) the controls are amazing, feel good and are perfectly responsive. Better than most if not all 3rd person action games IMO.

2) the combat mechanics, again, are better than most 3rd person action games.

3) but the most underrated aspect though, definitely is THE LEVEL DESIGN. Each parts, parkour, shootouts etc. are really tightly and impressively well designed. It makes searching for collectables and secrets just plain fun. No part felt like filler (except the terrible last small part) and most things, design-wise, make sense and look believable.

What didn't you like about the story/plot? I think the scenario is super interesting, they put a twist on the traditional shipwrecked tale with the supernatural thing being what's keeping them there. The level design is fantastic though.

First hour was very promising, then it turned into a snoozefest. It's just missing variety, something its successor will apparently have (we've already seen a desert, a snowy area, a jungle and so on).

Gameplay and level design were both terrible, imo. You can't miss those jumps, gaps are never even wide enough to make it at least look dangerous and you stick to the walls like gum. The only puzzles are inside those optional tombs and there only are around five, IIRC.

It's really just another cover shooter with backtracking/open areas. At least the hype the reboot gets for some reason isn't as excessive and "in your face" as Uncharted's which is great.

You can miss a lot of jumps, and gaps are plenty wide enough. The level design is super good, the only reason backtracking works is because the levels are designed so well that they don't feel like backtracking. They have verticality, they have cover, they have shortcuts that can only be opened with specific tools - I don't really think "bad level design" is a fair criticism. If you're talking about the action platforming sequences, then I would agree that they have been designed to not allow the player much room to fail. If that's what you're talking about, then yeah, I can see where you're coming from more.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

That's a shame

Hey man/lady I'm glad you love that game.

 

[Toa TAK]

Great OP.

When it came to the game's setting, I absolutely fell in love with the WWII aesthetic that was mixed in with the ancient Japanese architecture. It just hit all the right notes for me when you're playing through the game or exploring the island. But that also leads into one of my issues with the game is that you have this fully realized island but nothing to do in it (collectibles don't count). Ah well.

I'm really interested to see what Rise will do in terms of where we'll be adventuring because I can't stress enough how much I enjoyed their environments in this game.

 

[Ralemont]

What didn't you like about the story/plot? I think the scenario is super interesting, they put a twist on the traditional shipwrecked tale with the supernatural thing being what's keeping them there. The level design is fantastic though.

They didn't go far enough with the whole "Lara is potentially going insane" thing. Like, when they had her rise up from the blood I was pretty excited at the prospect of them making her just a Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now headcase. But then when she meets up with the group again it's really toned down. Like the part with Alex, or how she and Sam don't really have any conflict. I wanted her to be an asshole to people who weren't pulling their weight.

I realize this is not at all a reasonable expectation for where to take your flagship character, but I think it would have been the most interesting route. That they are carrying this over to Rise (with the therapy thing) is good, but I get the feeling they are going to let Lara have her cake and eat it, too, becoming a highly efficient killer obsessed with tombs but then she's still liked by a bunch of people and doesn't come into conflict with any of them.

Just for example with the archeologist dude in Tomb Raider, Lara clearly thinks something is super suspicious about him, and given her experiences I'd expect her to confront him and not back down just because the others are like "guys we have to work together!" That's a stupid rationale if Lara suspects he's a traitor. It would have been interesting if this moment caused a split between Lara and the group leading to her being on her own again.

In summary I felt there was no compelling consequence to this supposed poignant character transformation that Lara has and there were ways they could have integrated it better in her interactions with the other characters.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

Absolutely love this game. One of the best PS3 games made even better by the DE on PS4.

I'd argue it's probably the best Tomb Raider in the entire series actually, only Anniversary comes close. The game has:

-incredible graphics and atmosphere
-probably the best story in the series (wouldn't have to try hard for that though)
-secondary characters are fun if not a little cliche
-best and most fun usage of a bow I've seen in a game, usually I can't ditch a bow and arrow fast enough but I used it as much as the guns in this game
-great redesign for Lara, she looks gorgeous and kicks ass, really coming into her own by the end of the game

The only downside is the overly brutal death animations for Lara, that was needlessly over the top and unnecessary. But imo Lara managed to out-do Uncharted at their own game. Nathan Drake tried it.

 

[Oneself]

What didn't you like about the story/plot? I think the scenario is super interesting, they put a twist on the traditional shipwrecked tale with the supernatural thing being what's keeping them there.

Yes, on paper it is fine, I agree. But something about how it's directed and presented in-game didn't work for me.
Everything about the game feels down to earth and realistic (within gameplay limits), the whole "cult freaks" and deranged bad guys also fits this more non-fonctional approach, the weapons, the environments etc.
All the way through the story, I was expecting a somewhat logical explanation to why all of this was happening. I was also expecting the main bad guy to be some kind of intelligent ruler, leading desperate people into fear and violence by creating false stories, myths and history about the island. So I felt like they went the easy way out at the end, nothing witty or smart, it just felt out of place and ridiculous because of how it's been built up all the way through.

And the plot definitely is cliché, dialogs are "ok" at best, I felt nothing towards them and it's filled with 70's Batman set ups like them being trapped in a cage and bad voice acting.

 

[DarkTom]

I love it, awesome game.

I played through it on PC this year. This is the best game released before 2015 I played this year, I place it above other great games I played this year like Zelda ALTTP, Halo 4, Portal, Starfox 64 3D, Thomas was alone or Mortal Kombat 9.

I have to say I never played Uncharted and I usually don't play games like that so it was a really "fresh" experience for me, it had to have increase greatly my enjoyment of the game.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Great OP.

When it came to the game's setting, I absolutely fell in love with the WWII aesthetic that was mixed in with the ancient Japanese architecture. It just hit all the right notes for me when you're playing through the game or exploring the island. But that also leads into one of my issues with the game is that you have this fully realized island but nothing to do in it (collectibles don't count). Ah well.

I'm really interested to see what Rise will do in terms of where we'll be adventuring because I can't stress enough how much I enjoyed their environments in this game.

Same, I'm looking forward to it, especially as one of my favourite things about this was the fact that it was all on one island - it reminded me a lot of Arkham Asylum.

They didn't go far enough with the whole "Lara is potentially going insane" thing. Like, when they had her rise up from the blood I was pretty excited at the prospect of them making her just a Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now headcase. But then when she meets up with the group again it's really toned down. Like the part with Alex, or how she and Sam don't really have any conflict. I wanted her to be an asshole to people who weren't pulling their weight.

I realize this is not at all a reasonable expectation for where to take your flagship character, but I think it would have been the most interesting route. That they are carrying this over to Rise (with the therapy thing) is good, but I get the feeling they are going to let Lara have her cake and eat it, too, becoming a highly efficient killer obsessed with tombs but then she's still liked by a bunch of people and doesn't come into conflict with any of them.

Just for example with the archeologist dude in Tomb Raider, Lara clearly thinks something is super suspicious about him, and given her experiences I'd expect her to confront him and not back down just because the others are like "guys we have to work together!" That's a stupid rationale if Lara suspects he's a traitor. It would have been interesting if this moment caused a split between Lara and the group leading to her being on her own again.

In summary I felt there was no compelling consequence to this supposed poignant character transformation that Lara has and there were ways they could have integrated it better in her interactions with the other characters.

That's a good point, we'll have to see how it plays out in ROTTR. I totally agree about Whitman though, I felt Lara should've been more aggressive/assertive in that particular case as there were a lot of clues as to his true allegiances (like when he runs to them on the beach, he claims he was being chased by them - Jonah remarks that there doesn't seem to be anyone there and Lara points out that he's not sweating - but she just leaves it at that).

Absolutely love this game. One of the best PS3 games made even better by the DE on PS4.

I'd argue it's probably the best Tomb Raider in the entire series actually, only Anniversary comes close. The game has:

-incredible graphics and atmosphere
-probably the best story in the series (wouldn't have to try hard for that though)
-secondary characters are fun if not a little cliche
-best and most fun usage of a bow I've seen in a game, usually I can't ditch a bow and arrow fast enough but I used it as much as the guns in this game
-great redesign for Lara, she looks gorgeous and kicks ass, really coming into her own by the end of the game

The only downside is the overly brutal death animations for Lara, that was needlessly over the top and unnecessary. But imo Lara managed to out-do Uncharted at their own game. Nathan Drake tried it.

Yup, the bow is absolutely awesome and I love her redesign but I agree about some of the side characters, they could be a little trope-y.

 

[antitrop]

It was one of the better games in a year full of great games (2013, I mean). I appreciated the combat and interconnectedness of the world, but really despised the story and characters.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Yes, on paper it is fine, I agree. But something about how it's directed and presented in-game didn't work for me.
Everything about the game feels down to earth and realistic (within gameplay limits), the whole "cult freaks" and deranged bad guys also fits this more non-fonctional approach, the weapons, the environments etc.
All the way through the story, I was expecting a somewhat logical explanation to why all of this was happening. I was also expecting the main bad guy to be some kind of intelligent ruler, leading desperate people into fear and violence by creating false stories, myths and history about the island. So I felt like they went the easy way out at the end, nothing witty or smart, it just felt out of place and ridiculous because of how it's been built up all the way through.

And the plot definitely is cliché, dialogs are "ok" at best, I felt nothing towards them and it's filled with 70's Batman set ups like them being trapped in a cage and bad voice acting.

That's fair, I know there are quite a few stories which I wish didn't end with supernatural explanations but it didn't bother me too much in this particular case, luckily.

I love it, awesome game.

I played through it on PC this year. This is the best game released before 2015 I played this year, I place it above other great games I played this year like Zelda ALTTP, Halo 4, Portal, Starfox 64 3D, Thomas was alone or Mortal Kombat 9.

I have to say I never played Uncharted and I usually don't play games like that so it was a really "fresh" experience for me, it had to have increase greatly my enjoyment of the game.

I'm really glad you enjoyed it it might be because of not playing Uncharted that you found it super fresh, but imo it does more than enough to differentiate itself and is even better in the gameplay department.

It was one of the better games in a year full of great games. I appreciated the combat and interconnectedness of the world, but really despised the story and characters.

2013 did slay tbh. One of the best years of gaming imo and a perfect send out to the PS360.

 

[GlamFM]

Wow! What a thread!

Agree on basically everything with you OP.

Great game.

 

[TM94]

I thought it was a really good game, a lot of fun.

But the story was total bollocks sorry.

 

[GameAddict411]

It doesn't matter what you say. The reboot is not a real Tomb Raider game. It stole a lot from uncharted and many TPS games last gen. I played the original trilogy recently, and I had blast playing them even with their awful controls. If you compare them, they are not even the same game at all.

 

[Christos]

Awesome post, totally agree with your points. The game was amazing.

 

[DarkTom]

I forgot to say the OP is great.

I agree especially with your opinion on the controls. They are so good.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Wow! What a thread!

Agree on basically everything with you OP.

Great game.

Thanks

I thought it was a really good game, a lot of fun.

But the story was total bollocks sorry.

At least you enjoyed the gameplay

It doesn't matter what you say. The reboot is not a real Tomb Raider game. It stole a lot from uncharted and many TPS games last gen. I played the original trilogy recently, and I had blast playing them even with their awful controls. If you compare them, they are not even the same game at all.

Considering it's a reboot, I'd hope it's not the same game. Also, I don't think it "steals" from Uncharted - I think that it was clearly inspired by Uncharted but does enough to differentiate itself. Also, there's nothing inherently wrong with taking things that work from other games. Originality for originality's sake is not always a good thing.

 

[antitrop]

The story that focused on Lara herself wasn't completely terrible, it was serviceable and I enjoyed parts of it, but it's the supporting cast that is truly the weakest part of the game and they serve to just make everything... silly.

2 and a half years later, I still haven't gotten over the ridiculousness of that cutscene where

Spoiler

Lara kisses the nerdy guy as he valiantly sacrifices himself to save her so she can retrieve a fucking wrench and screwdriver

.

There was no character development to any of them, they were all cardboard cutouts of supporting cast, with their only real defining trait being what they look like. Plot twist at the end was painfully obvious and kind of embarrassingly handled.

There was really no reason to even have a supporting cast in the first place, the story would have been much more interesting with Lara on her own.

 

[Atrophis]

As a Tomb Raider game it obviously fails due to a complete lack of tomb raiding. Taken on its own its mostly a mediocre Uncharted clone. It does have a few nicely designed areas but the gameplay loop of climbing to a high area only to watch a cut scene of Lara falling down a slope over and over again gets really dull. I'm also not really a fan of what they did to Laras character.

My dream Tomb Raider game is one that goes back to basics with a lazer focus on exploration and puzzle solving and a spooky atmosphere. With NO COMBAT at all.

 

[InsaneTiger]

I disagree. Lara's character develops throughout the entire game, and while there is a disconnect between the combat encounter design and Lara's character arc for the first half of the game or so, Lara still develops. She never takes "pleasure" in killing - instead, she just gets more and more willing to do whatever it takes to survive. She also gets angrier and angrier as more of her friends are killed, which I think is an expected response. This is reflected in the ending cutscene when she stands away from the rest of the survivors, who are comforting each other, while Lara stands confident, by herself at the front of the ship, talking about how the island changed her and how she can't go back. That coupled with the therapy from the ROTTR announcement trailer suggests to me that Crystal have taken note of that criticism and are looking to address it in the story.

I disagree with Crystal learning, ROTR looks even more violent than before and Lara seems to enjoy it much more. To my other point, watch this video and tell me what you think.
https://youtu.be/sqm3_v9aZQY

 

[Ralemont]

I disagree with Crystal learning, ROTR looks even more violent than before and Lara seems to enjoy it much more. To my other point, watch this video and tell me what you think.

That could be addressing the criticism in its own way, just at the other extreme (enjoying is the wrong word to use, but being readily willing to kill certainly). Basically, there just needs to be a coherent representation of Lara's character in the story that matches the gameplay.

 

[EGM1966]

Sorry OP but the criticism of the story is fair and valid. The set up and concept is fine as are the themes but the execution is sub-par even for a videogame. Awful dialogue, piss poor narrative plotting and overly dramatic (without either context or being earned) moments.

It's a good game, very solid in the gameplay department, but the execution of the story is average to mediocre to downright poor by turns.

Glad you enjoyed it though.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I disagree with Crystal learning, ROTR looks even more violent than before and Lara seems to enjoy it much more. To my other point, watch this video and tell me what you think.
https://youtu.be/sqm3_v9aZQY

Watching it atm

That could be addressing the criticism in its own way, just at the other extreme (enjoying is the wrong word to use, but being readily willing to kill certainly). Basically, there just needs to be a coherent representation of Lara's character in the story that matches the gameplay.

That's what I do feel, in the first half particularly of TR2013 there's a disconnect between the gameplay and the narrative. If they'd explained why Lara was okay killing properly or if they'd reduced the amount of killing until the point in the story where she had developed enough for it to make sense then that would've been better imo.

 

[Gravidee]

I loved this game too. The atmosphere of the island was really oppressive and reminded me of Skull Island from King Kong. Combat was way more satisfying than Uncharted and my spirits soared every time I nailed someone in the head with the bow and arrow (even better if no one noticed). I got rid of my PS3 version some time ago, but only because I know I'll be playing the DE once I get a PS4.

 

[RespectThySole]

The atmosphere, level design and combat are great, but the characters and story are terrible. Hopefully, Rise improved in this regard.

 

[Ricky_R]

It was ok to me. Got bored around midway, but finished it anyway.

I think Uncharted is far more fun and engaging.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I disagree with Crystal learning, ROTR looks even more violent than before and Lara seems to enjoy it much more. To my other point, watch this video and tell me what you think.
https://youtu.be/sqm3_v9aZQY

Okay, so after watching that, they do raise some good points but their conclusions about how TR2013 is just about Lara becoming a video game icon were a bit premature, as CD have since shown that Lara didn't come out of the island mentally unscathed. From ROTTR gameplay footage it does seem again that there's going to be a disconnect between Lara's development and view of violence vs. the player's acceptance of violence but I guess we'll have to wait and see how they handle it.