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Macworld's analysis of E3 - Nintendo/MS/Sony are "complacent swine", "out of touch"
- Thread starter Mama Robotnik
- Start date
Davidion said:
And I'm sure the eight people who bought the latest tower defense game on XBLA and PSN would make such a huge impact on the market that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo have no choice but to acknowledge their presence and we will be seeing a golden new era in gaming driven by innovation at the indie dev level.
Davidion said:
As much as I can't see what kind of new hardware Nintendo has planned for the future, neither can you readily claim that the mobile gaming market will remain the same in the future as it has been in the past.
Your first paragraph is essentially the answer to your second.
Davidion said:
:lol Jesus christ.
First of all, repeating it to yourself is not going to magically give your opinion more validity. You do realize that, right?
Second of all, you really believe I was being anything but sarcastic when calling your viewpoint "carefully constructed". You really do live in your own universe and believe your opinion about everything is right, huh?
Davidion said:
Ahhh, playing the fanboy card now, are we? Yep, defending the author suddenly reveals my own biased viewpoint. Considering how eloquent and "informed" your arguments have been, I certainly expected a lot more from you.
mikespit1200
Member
Ugh, this is why no one should ever try and emulate Hunter Thompson.
I think this is frustrating on both ends because mac people aren't arrogant
But this guy claims to be a mac fan and is so just saying don't label us all like that lol
were really not so arrogant that we believe apple will take over in am area they clearly know nothing about and have minimal interest in persuing
callig zynga up on stage or ea on stage is a clear example of
this
Macworld guy is a tool
But this guy claims to be a mac fan and is so just saying don't label us all like that lol
were really not so arrogant that we believe apple will take over in am area they clearly know nothing about and have minimal interest in persuing
callig zynga up on stage or ea on stage is a clear example of
this
Macworld guy is a tool
Imperial Hot
Banned
Gaming on the iPhone and iPad is not the same as gaming on a console, DS, or PSP.
Buttons.
Buttons.
ElyrionX said:
So are you insinuating that only massive blockbuster games and IPs dictate the success of the market? Funny that I don't see that same philosophy being applied to the mobile gaming market.
ElyrionX said:
I don't seem to recall making that claim that the future of the mobile gaming market is written, all I've raised are points that note considerable obstacles for any player of convergence devices in the mobile gaming market.
Interestingly enough, the writer didn't seem to espouse the same viewpoints.
Remind me again, how "Apple's SDK can't be beaten by conventional platforms or conventional weapons", or "not because they will be challenging, creative, or fun", or "Sure, the 3DS has 3D graphics without glasses--but also without a sense of perspective" are salient arguments that isn't cheap, insubstantial stabs with zero research and actual examples to back it up.
ElyrionX said:
Elegantly, your third paragraph is essentially the answer to your second.
ElyrionX said:
Actually, what I said is an attitude taken by several people in this thread, yourself included. I didn't need to evoke the F word but:
ElyrionX said:
Feel free to explain to me exactly why the article deserves a "pass" for the attitude it takes, especially when no one has successfully defended a single salient "point" that the article makes that's not complete hyperbolic fluff.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
MrVargas said:
I'm not sure you understand my question.
You can only develop iPhone games on the Macs. The IDE is XCode, the SDK only works on macs, the emulator only works on macs. You can get around this by setting up your PC as a Hackintosh, and you used to be able to get around it by using cross-compilation toolchains like Flash, but really iOS development is a Mac-only thing.
Barry Lightning
Banned
i'll agree with one thing tho: fuck the sequels.
macworld said:
This guy is playing a bit fast and loose here with terminology because I really don't think Apple is touching Nintendo's traditional, core market (ie Mario, Zelda). However, looking at the expanded audience market that is new to Nintendo (ie Brain Age) I definitely think that Apple is taking a big bite out of that, and is poised to take away a huge part of it.
What's interesting to me about E3 is that the 3DS didn't seem to offer much new of interest to the expanded audience market. In fact it really seemed like Nintendo was circling the wagons and showing off stuff to their traditional gamer audience. Nintendogs + Cats and Layton were the only non-traditional games geared toward the expanded audience that I saw that the show, and they were hardly bold steps to secure that space or gain additional marketshare. I'm sure Nintendogs + Cats will sell great to that same primarily female audience based on the addition of cats alone, but Nintendo didn't convince me that they have any real compelling software that will convince expanded audience, non-gamers to buy a 3DS over simply continuing to play similar games on their iPhone.
Due to Apple's new place in the market, I have trouble believing that the 3DS will be able to gain the same interest from expanded audience gamers that the original DS got.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Bert said:
Yes.
Zombie James
Banned
No fun games at E3? :lol
infiniteloop
Member
spidye said:
no, thats a MacBook Pro.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Though, thinking about it, Nintendo needs to convince Popcap to go absolutely fullhog on the 3DS. And Nintendo needs to fix DSware to allow that kind of commitment.
ShockingAlberto
Member
The pro gets paid up front.spidye said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
ShockingAlberto said:
Honestly, Popcap still hasn't gone whole hog on any mobile devices. Peggle, PvZ, Bejeweled, Bookworm. and Chuzzle is their sum iPhone output. Most of their games, even newly released games, are still PC casual games sold through portals :/
charlequin
Banned
Tiktaalik said:
I don't see how this makes any sense at all. Nintendo's expanded-audience strategy is about getting people who wouldn't normally play games at all to play things that are nonetheless unambiguously* games by making them accessible, aesthetically appealing, and about things these people are about -- but to get these people to buy into the whole gaming market model (buy expensive hardware, buy moderately high-priced software in the store, etc.) It's about turning non-gamers into gamers, taking consumers with an absolute resistance to spending money on game products and making them into consumers who are eager to spend money on gaming products -- it's about raising enthusiasm to meet Nintendo's existing business model.
Meanwhile, Apple's convergence strategy is to get people who care a little bit about games to spend money on the App Store because it's a low-impact experience for gaming top-to-bottom -- you're paying a small amount of money to buy games that are fun but generally somewhat disposable or low-commitment on a device you already carry everywhere. It's about capturing money from a segment that is willing to spend money but isn't tremendously dedicated to doing so by lowering barriers until there are few enough of them that even lower enthusiasm will overcome them.
I think your idea is that people who bought DSes for Brain Training etc. are more likely to own iPhones now (I... actually really seriously doubt this correlation, come to think of it) but I don't think that's relevant. If someone owned a DS because they enjoyed playing Layton and Animal Crossing, or NSMB and Nintendogs, in what way does the iPhone really position itself as a substitutionary good that'll fill that person's needs as an alternate purchase instead of, say, a 3DS?
*Yes yes I know, lol "non-games" lol
Stumpokapow said:
Isn't that also, like, all of their particularly good games?
There's been a lot of anxiety recently in the casual/portal area about the bottom falling out of that market. With the rise of Facebook games and the iOS ecosystem the prices for the portal games have plummeted. It used to be that $20 was acceptable, but now it's $6.99 and dropping.
It'll be interesting to see how the companies that used the portals as their bread and butter adapt. To me it looks like PopCap is getting more serious about iOS.
It'll be interesting to see how the companies that used the portals as their bread and butter adapt. To me it looks like PopCap is getting more serious about iOS.
charlequin said:
My feeling is that more and more we'll see that everyone has some sort of smartphone, whether that is an iOS device (also iPod Touch) or Android and that these smartphones, due to their always connected social networking abilities will be better for expanded audience gaming than the DS and 3DS.
The way I look at it is that people will already be able to play games such as Scrabble on their iPhone/Android and so it will be more difficult to convince people that there is a reason to get some additional hardware. I mean the solution is to provide compelling content not available on smartphones, but I didn't see Nintendo show anything like that.
The Super Bob
Member
Shame people still like playing games like Zelda, Mario and Halo. More of these games wouldn't be made if they didn't sell like crazy and if people didn't enjoy them.
HamPster PamPster
Member
Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions is coming to my ipod touch... if it works well everything else is swine!
Tiktaalik said:
I don't recall Nintendo showing off Brain Training when the DS was revealed either. They will probably come up with something for the expanded audience. They take them very seriously. They even build their hardware to support this cause, something that any kind of smartphone inherently lacks actually.
Ninja-Matic
Banned
Erm... while I agree that this generation of gaming is stale... there are reasons...
MS and Sony are at war with one another... during a time of economic crisis... I feel both companies are playing it too safe with games and other technology because of this. During great economic times - you can get away with trying more and failing more. Nintendo just seems smug sitting right where it's at while introducing a new handheld which really didn't break any rules IMO - so it was a safe bet for them.
Then there's the games... I mean... games have been around since 1972. There's hardly a genre than hasn't been explored or exploited in some form or another - and with technology as it stands today - it's hard to push boundaries in games because the boundaries are slim to none.
While you may see games with improved graphics in the future - almost every other facet of gameplay has already been explored.
It's hard to be creative in this gaming era because of this - every time you make a game - especially if it's exclusive - fanboys will rip it to shreds claiming it stole ideas from other games.
Example: Gears 2 vs Uncharted 2 - online - U2 stole "Horde Mode" from Gears 2 was the claim to bash U2 by Gears fanboys.
Yet SPACE INVADERS from 1972 has been using that exact same gaming mechanic for 38 years and counting.
3rd person
Cover system (destructible, too)
Wave after wave of increasingly harder enemies
So... I believe there are many factors which limit developers in pushing envelopes.
So they take games as more of a "blockbuster" experience. Polishing story elements, immersion, set pieces, etc because THAT is pretty much the last piece of the puzzle for games.
They all have stories - but rarely any of them stand out as monumental works.
In the end - gaming IS getting stale. But I sure as shit fucking doubt a couple of APPS will change it or push envelopes.
MS and Sony are at war with one another... during a time of economic crisis... I feel both companies are playing it too safe with games and other technology because of this. During great economic times - you can get away with trying more and failing more. Nintendo just seems smug sitting right where it's at while introducing a new handheld which really didn't break any rules IMO - so it was a safe bet for them.
Then there's the games... I mean... games have been around since 1972. There's hardly a genre than hasn't been explored or exploited in some form or another - and with technology as it stands today - it's hard to push boundaries in games because the boundaries are slim to none.
While you may see games with improved graphics in the future - almost every other facet of gameplay has already been explored.
It's hard to be creative in this gaming era because of this - every time you make a game - especially if it's exclusive - fanboys will rip it to shreds claiming it stole ideas from other games.
Example: Gears 2 vs Uncharted 2 - online - U2 stole "Horde Mode" from Gears 2 was the claim to bash U2 by Gears fanboys.
Yet SPACE INVADERS from 1972 has been using that exact same gaming mechanic for 38 years and counting.
3rd person
Cover system (destructible, too)
Wave after wave of increasingly harder enemies
So... I believe there are many factors which limit developers in pushing envelopes.
So they take games as more of a "blockbuster" experience. Polishing story elements, immersion, set pieces, etc because THAT is pretty much the last piece of the puzzle for games.
They all have stories - but rarely any of them stand out as monumental works.
In the end - gaming IS getting stale. But I sure as shit fucking doubt a couple of APPS will change it or push envelopes.
Sorry if I was off the mark, it was a genuine question from someone who owned the original iPhone for about 6 months and since has only dabbled with friend's and family's iPhone/iPods.
I've not found any fulfilling gaming experiences on a solely touchscreen device (barring tower defence, which I was totally addicted to - yet that would've been improved immensely with the addition of buttons), I play mostly GBA emulation of very slow games on my G1 and use the keyboard for that.
Certainly I've found nothing to compare to NSMB or MKDS
I've not found any fulfilling gaming experiences on a solely touchscreen device (barring tower defence, which I was totally addicted to - yet that would've been improved immensely with the addition of buttons), I play mostly GBA emulation of very slow games on my G1 and use the keyboard for that.
Certainly I've found nothing to compare to NSMB or MKDS
charlequin
Banned
Tiktaalik said:
This using the conclusion to prove itself, though. You start from the assumption that Apple's product is going to win everything all over everywhere forever and that it'll receive software support equivalent to the existing expanded-market efforts, and then use that to argue that the product will be successful!
The "expanded market" is an extremely discriminating market, which is part of why it's difficult to chase down in the first place. The success that has been had in handhelds (on DS), console games (both on Wii and with other successful products like Guitar Hero) and even on social networking (with Zynga's freemium stuff)) doesn't take the form of people buying something that's okay because it's cheap and convenient; it involves people going out of their way to buy something that's unusually expensive relatively speaking (though fairly cheap overall) because it actively appeals to their relatively narrow band of interest. That's not going to just spring into being on smart phones even as their penetration gets higher, for the same reason that the market we're talking about was never really tapped to their full potential on PC despite "everyone having one."
I find the idea that if something was extremely prominent on one system, but it's not announced immediately for its successor, it must not be coming to be kind of silly. :lol
obijkenobi
Member
charlequin said:
Mario Kart and Super Mario Brothers isn't compelling content obviously.
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
Apple is the company prophesied to end the console war. Surely we can all put together our differences and unite against Apple.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Same writer has just published a new article praising some of the games of E3. Certainly massively, dramatically changed his tone.
His article was being mocked in the Macworld forums and a few blogs (not to mention here) so maybe he's learned something from it all.
His article was being mocked in the Macworld forums and a few blogs (not to mention here) so maybe he's learned something from it all.