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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?

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Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is higher on the list of Standard dominance than Elsepth Knight-Errant is. And Elspeth was damn good.
 

Ashodin

Member
C8rLXHpVwAAeer5.jpg:small
 
Gideon sees Play in Legacy, so I'm inclined to believe his lack of Modern Relevance says more about the format then his strength. He's a pain in the ass to remove, because he shits out tokens at a rate he should probably see a doctor about.

Dack fayden/ugin not being in your top 5 is something.... GR Tron got a huge shot in the arm with the printing of ugin and vintage is Fayden's world.
Again, I don't play Vintage. If you had read my post, I'm basing it on Modern/Standard with some legacy.

Ugin didn't help GR Tron in the same way that Newlamog did, so I think I'm justified in leaving him out.

Of the top 5 I listed, they're cards that have defined their Standard. Liliana of the Veil is part of the house Goyf Built, Jace was so strong he has a permanent grave in a format he never was in, Liliana the Last Hope single-handedly killed off White Weenie in Standard, Gideon is one of 6 cards that BFZ has that have warped formats around it, and Karn is infinitely better then Ugin in GR Tron(where Ugin functions as additional O-Stones with Upside)
 

Santiako

Member
According to this judge in reddit, you can cast Ancestral Vision from that:

tl;dr 99.9% sure we can actually cast Ancestral for free off this immediately.

Former judge experience would dictate that I'd wait for the FAQ before anything. The card says to pay 0 rather than it's mana cost. Depending on the rules, you're either replacing a mana cost of "no mana cost" with 0, or you can't replace that.

It's a weird corner case that needs a ruling. That said, rules citation: (emphasis mine)

601.2b If the spell is modal, the player announces the mode choice (see rule 700.2). If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell (see rule 702.46), he or she reveals those cards in his or her hand. If the spell has alternative or additional costs that will be paid as it’s being cast such as buyback or kicker costs (see rules 117.8 and 117.9), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 601.2f). (irrelevant stuff afterwards)

117.6. Some mana costs contain no mana symbols. This represents an unpayable cost. An ability can also have an unpayable cost if its cost is based on the mana cost of an object with no mana cost. Attempting to cast a spell or activate an ability that has an unpayable cost is a legal action. However, attempting to pay an unpayable cost is an illegal action.

To get to the point: Attempting to cast Ancestral out of your hand without suspending it is legal. It only becomes illegal when you try to pay an unpayable cost (namely, the fact it has no mana cost). Given this is an alternate cost, we are paying that rather than this, so we are legally in the clear.

That will be fun to try.
 

kirblar

Member
The implicit "To" on the Aftermath cards isn't really working for me. I'm most likely only casting one-half of the card on any given phase, so I'm only really going to be reading half of the card's name at any given time, omitting the "To" in every case.

Minor design quibble. We now return you to your regularly scheduled Gideon freakout and people being surprised that things go infinite with Kiki-Jiki, somehow.
You don't cast Assault and Battery on the same turn either though. :p
 
You don't cast Assault and Battery on the same turn either though. :p

Assault and Battery works a little better because "And" is the more natural implicit term, though admittedly it's still not optimal. Boom/Bust is sort of the optimal version, but "And" is acceptable because people will default to it. (You can actually see people in this very thread assuming that "And" is the connector for these new cards, even when it doesn't particularly make sense.)

Like I said, minor quibble, particularly compared to OMG Gid.
 
I keep saying that Panharmonicon is Way too powerful, and these Trials prove it.

Ridiculous ETB effects when doubled, PLUS they bounce when a Cartouche is played, and THEY have amazing ETBs when doubled. Good lord.


EDIT: Shit, Artifacts and Creatures, not enchantments! I'm an idiot, but Trials are still cool.
 

Son1x

Member
Oh wow, that is one awesome enchantment. But we still need some answers for CopyCat and especially Mardu Vehicles now that they got another busted Gideon.

AV might spike again.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
So wait, can you do any shenanigans with enchantment removal and As Foretold? Like normally you tap lands to add mana to your mana pool, then declare you are casting the spell using that mana. Is there a spot in there where I can respond with a Naturalize and oops now you're trying to cast a spell without any mana or any effect to play it? The effect of As Foretold is not itself a mana ability...
 
I keep saying that Panharmonicon is Way too powerful, and these Trials prove it.

Ridiculous ETB effects when doubled, PLUS they bounce when a Cartouche is played, and THEY have amazing ETBs when doubled. Good lord.

Panharmonicon only doubles abilities triggered by creatures and artifacts entering the battlefield.

So wait, can you do any shenanigans with enchantment removal and As Foretold? Like normally you tap lands to add mana to your mana pool, then declare you are casting the spell using that mana. Is there a spot in there where I can respond with a Naturalize and oops now you're trying to cast a spell without any mana or any effect to play it?

No, there's no time to react between the spell being put on the stack and the cost being payed.
 

kirblar

Member
So wait, can you do any shenanigans with enchantment removal and As Foretold? Like normally you tap lands to add mana to your mana pool, then declare you are casting the spell using that mana. Is there a spot in there where I can respond with a Naturalize and oops now you're trying to cast a spell without any mana or any effect to play it?
Nope, there's no space in between there, your opponent has priority the whole way through.
 

Ashodin

Member
So wait, can you do any shenanigans with enchantment removal and As Foretold? Like normally you tap lands to add mana to your mana pool, then declare you are casting the spell using that mana. Is there a spot in there where I can respond with a Naturalize and oops now you're trying to cast a spell without any mana or any effect to play it? The effect of As Foretold is not itself a mana ability...

before priority is passed back, mana has been used to cast the spell. More importantly, you've jumped through the hoop to play it and the opponent now has to counter it or respond in another way.
 

Korgill

Member
Any other Yidris and Kydele + Thrasios players as super excited as me? I was depressed up to Gideon but a good chunk of today's cards are going straight (maybe) into my decks.

As Foretold is amazing since I can wait until I get Cascade turned on.
 

alternade

Member
Some people in my local Magic FB group are touting this as the most broken enchantment. I don't see it. It'll be turn 6-7 before you can play any spells that are worth it in standard
 

Santiako

Member
Some people in my local Magic FB group are touting this as the most broken enchantment. I don't see it. It'll be turn 6-7 before you can play any spells that are worth it in standard

In standard. In modern you can do all of the time spiral 0 CMC spells amongst other things.
 

Ozigizo

Member
I really wish the top part of these cards were instant. These just feel like worse versions of cards from 2 rotations ago.
 

Hero

Member
The red Aftermath card is fun. Not sure about good in tournament constructed. Will be bonkers in EDH.
 

red13th

Member
It can be pretty powerful but it still is a 3 drop. I think it has potential but everything in this set is so wacky and hard to evaluate.
 

Tunoku

Member
Maybe it's because I'm deep down a gaming hole right now, but I can't myself excited about this set. All these Aftermath cards seem very interesting and that blue Enchantment is sweet and probably dumb in Atraxa decks.
 

Justin

Member
I've been playing the IOS game for the last couple of weeks and am thinking about getting into the real thing. Are the cards in the sets they release "balanced" in that I could buy a box of boosters from the newest set and have enough cards to make some interesting decks or do you really need to have a combination of several sets to do anything cool? Trying to figure out if it is better to just buy one booster box or a hand full of boosters from the last couple sets.
 
I've been playing the IOS game for the last couple of weeks and am thinking about getting into the real thing. Are the cards in the sets they release "balanced" in that I could buy a box of boosters from the newest set and have enough cards to make some interesting decks or do you really need to have a combination of several sets to do anything cool? Trying to figure out if it is better to just buy one booster box or a hand full of boosters from the last couple sets.

If you're just playing for fun you can buy as much sealed product as you want. If you want legitimate competitive decks you should buy the individual cards after researching everything.
 

Joe Molotov

Member
I've been playing the IOS game for the last couple of weeks and am thinking about getting into the real thing. Are the cards in the sets they release "balanced" in that I could buy a box of boosters from the newest set and have enough cards to make some interesting decks or do you really need to have a combination of several sets to do anything cool? Trying to figure out if it is better to just buy one booster box or a hand full of boosters from the last couple sets.

Better to just look up some decklists online and then buy the singles. Buying sealed product is for suckers.
 
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