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[aidan]

Here's most of the new art compiled: http://imgur.com/a/9cxp1


Look at all those tentacle shapes. Even in the sky. I think it's Emrakul again.

(But seriously that's just super pretty.)

This time it's definitely Marit Lage.

 

[HK-47]

At least the art is on point.

 

[Firemind]

You guys are doing a good job making me want to read a Magic Story article for the first time. Considering the popularity of stuff like Force of Will and Weiss Schwartz, it appears that gamers actually LIKE trashy LN stuff!

It's getting embarrassing at this point.

Am I allowed to say that they half-assed three of their "return to" sets, even though Innistrad, Zendikar and Ravnica are pretty much my favorite sets. Scars wasn't too hot either since they created Infect, which is personally one of my most disliked mechanics. I hope they don't go overboard with all these return blocks, or else they might burn out on them pretty quickly.

Zendikar is amazing. I'm drafting it online as part of the flashback week and I already opened two Scalding Tarn, a Misty, two Arid Mesa and a foil Catacombs. Best feelgood set ever.

Im ready for my standard izzet overlords.

The last couple of U/R cards were creatures that grow when you play spells, a crappy remand and a howling mine.

 

[A Serious Man]

That art... hype rising.

 

[charlequin]

Dwarves?

Are they hoping if they just ignore the fallout on Innistrad we'll forget the plane is up a creek without a paddle?

It's just not relevant to the current storytelling. The plane still exists and the immediate threat is over; there's not much dramatic point to stories about how it's pretty screwed up but basically okay for the moment when we're about to go somewhere else. They'll give us glimpses in through supplemental products and eventually get back to a revisit, like they're doing with Mirrodin right now.

This is the closest to a non blue vedalken, I'd say it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities.

They've only bled creatures out of their tribe's primary color completely when they're spreading them out to support a tribal theme, which we won't have here. And they're more conservative on this for PWs than for creatures, almost certainly.

And perfection should really not be attributed to blue.

Literally the entire deal with blue is it's the color that seeks perfection.

Am I allowed to say that they half-assed three of their "return to" sets, even though Innistrad, Zendikar and Ravnica are pretty much my favorite sets.

I wouldn't say half-assed, but they all have their own distinct issues. SOM had to leave the Mirrodin stuff underpowered and a little bland so as a return it wasn't quite as compelling as it could be, but the whole block was fairly successful on its own terms. RTR did 80% a good job, but played it too conservative and made a disastrous choice about how to structure the sets in the block. BFZ is... well we all know about BFZ.

What race do we think he is? A new race? It looks like he's made of aether and just has prosthetic skin. Elemental?

Best guess:

(Scornful Aether-Lich)

 

[SigmasonicX]

The State of Design article mentioned that Zendikar Expeditions was a big hit. I wonder if they got that news soon enough for them to do something similar in Kaladesh. Perhaps super rare reprints of artifacts, called Hall of Inventions or something.

What are some expensive artifacts they could reprint that aren't on the Reserved List?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

They've only bled creatures out of their tribe's primary color completely when they're spreading them out to support a tribal theme, which we won't have here. And they're more conservative on this for PWs than for creatures, almost certainly.

Dumb decision, when a creature type can bleed into another colour it can be that colour entirely on rare occassions.
Radha for instance could have been a mono red elf as a card going by the story.

Literally the entire deal with blue is it's the color that seeks perfection.

That's meaningless, every colour seeks perfection in their own form. Even if that is imperfection.

 

[MoxManiac]

The State of Design article mentioned that Zendikar Expeditions was a big hit. I wonder if they got that news soon enough for them to do something similar in Kaladesh. Perhaps super rare reprints of artifacts, called Hall of Inventions or something.

What are some expensive artifacts they could reprint that aren't on the Reserved List?

Ensnaring bridge

 

[kirblar]

This is going to lead to someone posting Mayuri's rant on Perfection from Bleach at some point (one of the few high points after the initial few arcs.)

 

[HK-47]

Dwarves?

Pretty odd body proportions if they arent.

 

[HK-47]

Dumb decision, when a creature type can bleed into another colour it can be that colour entirely on rare occassions.
Radha for instance could have been a mono red elf as a card going by the story.

That's meaningless, every colour seeks perfection in their own form. Even if that is imperfection.

Sounds like another version of "blue is the color of magic lol"

 

[charlequin]

Dumb decision, when a creature type can bleed into another colour it can be that colour entirely on rare occassions.

The purpose of creature types is to serve the color pie much more than the other way around. Elves are there to tie the color pie qualities of green together with creative that fits, all wrapped up in a shorthand that players can spot and understand quickly at a glance.

You don't want people getting surprised because oops, random red elf. When you're in a tribal environment it's easy to flex on that because tribal identity is so in the forefront, so it's easier to be aware of what other colors some species might appear in.

Now I mean, is this a rule that they'll break when there's a good reason? Sure, but there's no such reason here. Vedalken exist in blue for a specific purpose and Kaladesh is a setting where they can very much serve that exact purpose. Putting Dovin Baan in as a vedalken gives us a relevant piece of info -- hey, here's a blue-aligned character interested in knowledge and artifice -- right away, instead of making people try to remember some weird exception.

(Also, Radha really has to be red-green because that's what demonstrates her internal conflict between her Elvish and Keldon sides.)

That's meaningless, every colour seeks perfection in their own form.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/true-blue-revisited-2015-07-20

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/120298696653/perfection-has-always-seemed-like-a-strange-word

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/124386750613/blue-desires-perfection-through-knowledge-but

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/106334918328/blues-ultimate-goal-of-perfection-bugs-me-its

etc.

As described Dovin fits precisely with this quality: he's interested in iteratively improving on things to make them work better and better over time, which is very much a goal that is exclusive to blue in the color pie.

 

[Hero]

Finally got to read the State of Design article. Pretty much agree with everything. Kaladesh is sounding super awesome, can't wait to see spoilers this week.

 

[Crocodile]

This is going to lead to someone posting Mayuri's rant on Perfection from Bleach at some point (one of the few high points after the initial few arcs.)

Since you're clearly asking for it, here you go

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

(Also, Radha really has to be red-green because that's what demonstrates her internal conflict between her Elvish and Keldon sides.)

What conflict? Radha clearly considers herself Kheldon and only struggles in the sense of trying to be accepted as such by others. Literally the first thing Radha does is randomly stab Teferi.

Would you make the character referenced here RG?

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/true-blue-revisited-2015-07-20

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/120298696653/perfection-has-always-seemed-like-a-strange-word

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/124386750613/blue-desires-perfection-through-knowledge-but

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/106334918328/blues-ultimate-goal-of-perfection-bugs-me-its

etc.

As described Dovin fits precisely with this quality: he's interested in iteratively improving on things to make them work better and better over time, which is very much a goal that is exclusive to blue in the color pie.

Here let me respond for being called out on cop out answers by giving cop out answers. I really have little respect for what MaRo considers blue to be.
He basically says Blue seeks improvement through outside means but colours it as them seeking perfection.
The way he describes is more in tune with black if anything since it's greed to strive and strive never content with the results.

 

[red13th]

Kaladesh HYPE jesus, so pretty.

I'm glad I'm waiting on Conspiracy 2, Recruiter is down to $22, Show and Tell $25, Daretti $12, I think I'll buy them next week. Birds dropped to $4!

 

[charlequin]

What conflict?

It's not like the Time Spiral story is approximately any good, but she specifically gets a character arc about abandoning her bloodthirsty ways to unite elves and humans into a community that works towards constructive ends.

He basically says Blue seeks improvement through outside means but colours it as them seeking perfection.

Which is... exactly what that is? Green isn't into perfection, it embodies the "warts and all" philosophy with its take-nature-as-it-comes thing. Red isn't into perfection, it's about embracing chaos and the whims of the moment even when they're destructive. Blue specifically thinks you can take anything and improve it; both ideas (that anything can be improved, and that iterative improvement is fundamentally a good thing) are unique to blue in MTG's color pie, and that's what's being captured in the word "perfection" here.

The way he describes is more in tune with black if anything since it's greed to strive and strive never content with the results.

Nah, black is selfish which is a very different thing. A mono-black character might strive to be the most powerful or most dominant (like, say, Ob Nixilis), but that has nothing to do with perfection -- it's just about power and personal convenience. You do see a type of calculated ambition that involves dominance through absolute skill or capability -- in Dimir, where the black ambition and the blue perfection come together in one place, and to a lesser degree in Sultai and Grixis.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's not like the Time Spiral story is approximately any good, but she specifically gets a character arc about abandoning her bloodthirsty ways to unite elves and humans into a community that works towards constructive ends.

Completely blanking on that right now. But reading up quickly on mtg salvation it even mentions her green mana being reignited or something and how that changes her.

Also why can zombies be blue but elves not red?

Which is... exactly what that is? Green isn't into perfection, it embodies the "warts and all" philosophy with its take-nature-as-it-comes thing. Red isn't into perfection, it's about embracing chaos and the whims of the moment even when they're destructive. Blue specifically thinks you can take anything and improve it; both ideas (that anything can be improved, and that iterative improvement is fundamentally a good thing) are unique to blue in MTG's color pie, and that's what's being captured in the word "perfection" here.

Green is into perfection it seeks perfection through natural selection and evolution. When blue becomes involved it seeks perfection through artificial mutation.
For red and black it's a harder case to make they don't seek perfection in the sense blue and green do.
What you describe for blue is rather different to saying blue is the colour that seeks perfection. It's the colour that seeks improvement through artificial means. You don't need to add an all encompassing perfection to that description that makes the whole thing meaningless.

Nah, black is selfish which is a very different thing. A mono-black character might strive to be the most powerful or most dominant (like, say, Ob Nixilis), but that has nothing to do with perfection -- it's just about power and personal convenience. You do see a type of calculated ambition that involves dominance through absolute skill or capability -- in Dimir, where the black ambition and the blue perfection come together in one place, and to a lesser degree in Sultai and Grixis.

That can be perfection for Black, phyrexians were black centric, they sought perfection.
And that wasn't even the point I made.
My point was that seeking perfection through improvement and upon reaching perfection trying to improve further, as MaRo described, is greed which is generally a black attribute.

 

[The Technomancer]

I'm glad they're not afraid to use Vedalken and stuff more, but I wish they wouldn't be as conservative about introducing new races. Do we really need Elves in our fantasy India when a new more setting appropriate race might fit?

 

[SigmasonicX]

I'm glad they're not afraid to use Vedalken and stuff more, but I wish they wouldn't be as conservative about introducing new races. Do we really need Elves in our fantasy India when a new more setting appropriate race might fit?

Part of the issue is that the past few new worlds specifically don't have elves. Theros, Tarkir, Innistrad. No elves. They might be in danger of having too many return blocks that don't have elves, when they're a popular tribe and supposed to be green's characteristic race.

 

[The Technomancer]

The Consulate, and Ghirapur in general, sounds almost exactly like my pitch for a WUR wedge society back when I was brainstorming wedge cultures. Highly organized, deeply curious, and boundlessly creative

Also goddamn at that imgur gallery. Kaladesh is giving me the exact same sort of awe 14 year old me first felt when seeing the art of Ravnica for the first time, I didn't think they could create that sensation again

 

[blindrocket]

Kaladesh HYPE jesus, so pretty.

I'm glad I'm waiting on Conspiracy 2, Recruiter is down to $22, Show and Tell $25, Daretti $12, I think I'll buy them next week. Birds dropped to $4!

Wow, awesome. I bought a three pack at Target and didn't really pull a whole lot. I may just not crack any more packs.

 

[charlequin]

Also why can zombies be blue but elves not red?

Elves can be red just fine in a block with a ton of elves that explicitly sets up a red/green elf tribe. They could do that on a return to Dominaria specifically with Radha's tribe of Keldon elves and have mono-red elves in there. Just not as a single one-shot character when making her red/green multicolor conveys the character and story more effectively.

Green is into perfection it seeks perfection through natural selection and evolution.

Green specifically, explicitly isn't into things becoming perfect; it's into the natural process. Evolution can make living things better over time, but it's destructive and has dead ends and it produces beings that work well in their environment rather than ones that are perfect on their own -- a super-predator that can't be killed and hunts everything else to extinction isn't green at all.

It's the colour that seeks improvement through artificial means.

No, through any means. Blue is the only color that cares about improving things in general. White is in favor of order, which means it prefers stasis to disruptive improvements; black doesn't care about anything but its own whims; green goes with the flow when it's good and when it's bad; red changes its mind frequently and doesn't believe in "perfection" because what's good for its current preferences changes alongside.

That can be perfection for Black, phyrexians were black centric, they sought perfection.

Classic Phyrexians are written as a blue/black villain even though the cards don't reflect that.

My point was that seeking perfection through improvement and upon reaching perfection trying to improve further, as MaRo described, is greed which is generally a black attribute.

No, not at all. Blue wants everyone and everything to improve. Blue will improve the stuff it personally interacts with (like its environment and body) because it wants that environment to be in harmony with its philosophy, but it'll improve other stuff too. Open-source software is definitively blue, for example -- something where you improve something via iteration, develop collective knowledge, and then share your discoveries with anyone who wants them.

 

[HK-47]

Need more spirits so bant spirits can become a better modern deck.

Also more Loxodon and Rhox. Better than Elves.

 

[charlequin]

I'm glad they're not afraid to use Vedalken and stuff more, but I wish they wouldn't be as conservative about introducing new races. Do we really need Elves in our fantasy India when a new more setting appropriate race might fit?

They just did naga last year and I don't blame them for not jumping on the idea of ape-people.

The Consulate, and Ghirapur in general, sounds almost exactly like my pitch for a WUR wedge society back when I was brainstorming wedge cultures. Highly organized, deeply curious, and boundlessly creative

Yeah, Ghirapur is what a WUR wedge society looks like when you don't have to artificially exclude artifacts.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Elves can be red just fine in a block with a ton of elves that explicitly sets up a red/green elf tribe. They could do that on a return to Dominaria specifically with Radha's tribe of Keldon elves and have mono-red elves in there. Just not as a single one-shot character when making her red/green multicolor conveys the character and story more effectively.

Okay we can meeting halfway on something at least. The only thing left is to argue whether Planeswalkers ascribe to the same rules as tribal creatures in that aspect.

Green specifically, explicitly isn't into things becoming perfect; it's into the natural process. Evolution can make living things better over time, but it's destructive and has dead ends and it produces beings that work well in their environment rather than ones that are perfect on their own -- a super-predator that can't be killed and hunts everything else to extinction isn't green at all.

Different means, same goal. Evolution and mutation is absolutely the same as blue improvement especially going by MaRo saying they'll never reach perfection.
Being destructive and having dead ends isn't an issue. Blue is just as destructive (self mutilation with artifacts, stitchers, etc.) and dead ends aren't anything special.

Why would the perfect being through evolution be a super predator?

No, through any means. Blue is the only color that cares about improving things in general. White is in favor of order, which means it prefers stasis to disruptive improvements; black doesn't care about anything but its own whims; green goes with the flow when it's good and when it's bad; red changes its mind frequently and doesn't believe in "perfection" because what's good for its current preferences changes alongside.

See that I can't agree with at all. Blue is seeking improvement through exclusively outside means. They don't seek it though evolution/adaption nor through self reflection/asceticism/enlightenment. All of these are applied to other colours, green and white in these cases.
Improving things in general is way too broad a description. You don't see blue mages cleaning the street. You don't see blue mages healing the sick. You don't see blue mages painting murals.

Classic Phyrexians are written as a blue/black villain even though the cards don't reflect that.

Hence I said black centric.

No, not at all. Blue wants everyone and everything to improve. Blue will improve the stuff it personally interacts with (like its environment and body) because it wants that environment to be in harmony with its philosophy, but it'll improve other stuff too. Open-source software is definitively blue, for example -- something where you improve something via iteration, develop collective knowledge, and then share your discoveries with anyone who wants them.

Disagree with all of that except the open sourcing. That isn't at all reflective of blue at all.

 

[Ashodin]

Wait this Kaladesh stu-

I just really love Equipment you guys

 

[Giant Panda]

Elves are a super boring race. They're graceful humans with pointy ears, but humans can be graceful too. Goblins, leonin, loxodon, merfolk, etc are way better just by being visually distinct.

 

[HK-47]

They just did naga last year and I don't blame them for not jumping on the idea of ape-people.



Yeah, Ghirapur is what a WUR wedge society looks like when you don't have to artificially exclude artifacts.

Sorry red is involved so we cant have any artifacts.

 

[kirblar]

Place with a Caste system issue has Dwarves?

From Soul Eater to Dragon Age.

 

[HK-47]

Place with a Caste system issue has Dwarves?

From Soul Eater to Dragon Age.

More like an Indian themed plane has a caste system because of course it does.

 

[cuc]

Also, he curbed a Gremlin infestation (are we getting gremlins in Kaldesh?!)

Ah, that's the next best thing to a return of the only true Phyrexia, the Hell of Artifice where demons and gremlins treat the artifacts they kidnapped as sinners to be tortured. All the later retcons, the Giger and Brom knock-offs are nothing but shams!

 

[Ashodin]

Calling it now. A new Sword of __blank__ and __blank__ is coming

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Calling it now. A new Sword of __blank__ and __blank__ is coming

why just one?

 

[OnPoint]

Calling it now. A new Sword of __blank__ and __blank__ is coming

Maybe when we get back to New Phyrexia.

 

[DashReindeer]

Wait this Kaladesh stu-

I just really love Equipment you guys

Yeah, I thought the reason Stoneforge stayed banned in Modern was so that we could get some new cool equipment, but there essentially hasn't been anything good since Scars block. Really hope we get something good in Kaladesh, but recent experiences make me doubtful.

 

[OnPoint]

Yeah, I thought the reason Stoneforge stayed banned in Modern was so that we could get some new cool equipment, but there essentially hasn't been anything good since Scars block. Really hope we get something good in Kaladesh, but recent experiences make me doubtful.

No it's because Stoneforge + Batterskull is gross and unfun. Would be nice to get new good equipment though.

 

[Ashodin]

Dwarves confirmed for Kaladesh per Maro's tumblor

 

[Angry Grimace]

Dwarves confirmed for Kaladesh per Maro's tumblor

lies

 

[HK-47]

I feel like making really good equipment requires an artifact set, because those sets are more likely to have maindeckable artifact hate. Which is important to keep things under control in limited especially.

I have no idea if this is really the case. Maybe they are just gun shy still after Batterskull and the swords caused such a problem last time. Especially since Clamp and Jitte also totally dominated their standard and limited environments.

 

[MoxManiac]

You guys think Mono W Humans are still viable in standard post-Eldritch Moon?

 

[charlequin]

Okay we can meeting halfway on something at least. The only thing left is to argue whether Planeswalkers ascribe to the same rules as tribal creatures in that aspect.

Every non-human planeswalker printed to date includes their species color in every incarnation: Tamiyo is always blue, Arlinn is R/G, Nahiri is always white, Sorin is always black, Nissa is always green, Kiora is always blue, Ob is always black, Ajani is always white, Xenagos is R/G, Vraska is G/B, Bolas is red, Tibalt is red, Karn is colorless, Daretti is always red. It would be way weirder for a PW with a specified race to be printed in colors not associated with that race, especially because (unlike a creature) you can't rely on the type line to make that association for you.

Different means, same goal.

No, again, explicitly not. Green is all about stuff getting old, being prey, dying. Mulch, Irresistible Prey (and Sacred Prey), Death's Presence are all green spells. Green gets to destroy artifacts because they're an affront to the natural order and so it doesn't want them perfected, it wants them to break down and rust away back to a natural state. Hell, it literally has a destruction spell called Natural State.

Blue is just as destructive (self mutilation with artifacts, stitchers, etc.) and dead ends aren't anything special.

Neither of those things is destructive. Changing your body with artifacts is just cybernetics; blue does it because it can produce a better body. Stitchers take stuff that's dead and artfully construct it into new, functional forms, using knowledge and learning to improve their craft. Again: not destructive, iterative improvement.

See that I can't agree with at all. Blue is seeking improvement through exclusively outside means.

What about all the card drawing spells? The bog-standard blue card draw is named something like Concentrate, Foresight, Enhanced Awareness, Ponder -- improvement of the mind through purely internal effort.

They don't seek it though evolution/adaption nor through self reflection/asceticism/enlightenment.

Mystic Meditation, Thought Reflection, Monastery Loremaster (and a ton of other Jeskai blue cards), etc. It's true that asceticism is more green in MTG since it's about eschewing civilization for the life of the natural world.

Improving things in general is way too broad a description. You don't see blue mages cleaning the street. You don't see blue mages healing the sick. You don't see blue mages painting murals.

Cleaning the street is white because it's not making something better, it's maintaining order and cleanliness in something you already have. Ditto healing: it's white because it's taking a system that exists and repairing damage to it. Painting a mural for no reason is pretty much artistic expression for purely its own sake which isn't mono-blue but it does tend to fall into U/R.

Disagree with all of that except the open sourcing. That isn't at all reflective of blue at all.

I mean you decided that this stuff that's explicitly black according to the actual color pie people is blue and therefore this other stuff can't be blue even though it's all a really straightforward fit with how blue is described. We're learning about Ghirapur right now and it's a hella blue society that's all about improving technology for everyone and letting inventions and discoveries be used by the whole populace.

 

[Infinite Stars]

StoneForge's Ban is completely pointless, because equipment sees 0 play in Modern without her.

 

[HK-47]

StoneForge's Ban is completely pointless, because equipment sees 0 play in Modern without her.

Then what they need to do is print good equipment enablers that arent completely broken.

 

[HK-47]

You guys think Mono W Humans are still viable in standard post-Eldritch Moon?

Losing Kytheon, Consul and Knight is gonna kill it.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Every non-human planeswalker printed to date includes their species color in every incarnation: Tamiyo is always blue, Arlinn is R/G, Nahiri is always white, Sorin is always black, Nissa is always green, Kiora is always blue, Ob is always black, Ajani is always white, Xenagos is R/G, Vraska is G/B, Bolas is red, Tibalt is red, Karn is colorless, Daretti is always red. It would be way weirder for a PW with a specified race to be printed in colors not associated with that race, especially because (unlike a creature) you can't rely on the type line to make that association for you.

I see the point, I could nitpick 1 or 2, but you're right.

No, again, explicitly not. Green is all about stuff getting old, being prey, dying. Mulch, Irresistible Prey (and Sacred Prey), Death's Presence are all green spells. Green gets to destroy artifacts because they're an affront to the natural order and so it doesn't want them perfected, it wants them to break down and rust away back to a natural state. Hell, it literally has a destruction spell called Natural State.
Nothing in this paragraph negates seeking perfection.

Perfection does not necessitate artifacts nor does destroying them contradict seeking perfection.

Neither of those things is destructive. Changing your body with artifacts is just cybernetics; blue does it because it can produce a better body. Stitchers take stuff that's dead and artfully construct it into new, functional forms, using knowledge and learning to improve their craft. Again: not destructive, iterative improvement.

Yes it is, green operates by stuff has to die for others to thrive and evolve. Blue operates by the flesh is weak and has to be culled as much as possible (for esper and mirrodin at least). Both cases you're destructing components to improve a lifeform.
Stitchers mutilate corpses, destructive, to create a new form they deem improved.
There's also tinker, reshape, fabricate,... type effects.
Nothing wrong with destructive.

What about all the card drawing spells? The bog-standard blue card draw is named something like Concentrate, Foresight, Enhanced Awareness, Ponder -- improvement of the mind through purely internal effort.

No that's usage of the mind through their acquired knowledge.

Mystic Meditation, Thought Reflection, Monastery Loremaster (and a ton of other Jeskai blue cards), etc. It's true that asceticism is more green in MTG since it's about eschewing civilization for the life of the natural world.

Now you're taking a wedge design about monks to make a point when that's an outlier and stretching of the colour pie more than anything.

Cleaning the street is white because it's not making something better, it's maintaining order and cleanliness in something you already have. Ditto healing: it's white because it's taking a system that exists and repairing damage to it. Painting a mural for no reason is pretty much artistic expression for purely its own sake which isn't mono-blue but it does tend to fall into U/R.

All of those are still improvements to their current situation, hence the issue with drawing such a broad stroke for blue. It can be argued it's just a restoration.
Some further examples. +1/+1 counters, White and equipments matter, black and immortality through various means,...

I mean you decided that this stuff that's explicitly black according to the actual color pie people is blue and therefore this other stuff can't be blue even though it's all a really straightforward fit with how blue is described. We're learning about Ghirapur right now and it's a hella blue society that's all about improving technology for everyone and letting inventions and discoveries be used by the whole populace.

When did I say wanting everyone and everything to improve is black?

 

[Etrian Oddity]

New story "Homesick"

tl;dr - The Gatewatch has made Jace's house in Ravnica their home base, Baan comes to ask for their help, they refuse, Chandra and Lili planeswalk away to Kaladesh, Nissa and Baan follow.

About half of the story is showing you how cute they all are, it's weird.

Jesus christ that was bar-none the most painful MtG story article I've ever read.

And they say this shit is what's selling? God help us all.

Not going to lie, racist, cocky, dark queen Nissa >>>>> flower child Nissa

This too.

 

[charlequin]

Blue operates by the flesh is weak and has to be culled as much as possible (for esper and mirrodin at least). Both cases you're destructing components to improve a lifeform.
Stitchers mutilate corpses, destructive, to create a new form they deem improved.
There's also tinker, reshape, fabricate,... type effects.

Blue has never been the "all flesh must be purged" color outside Phyrexia; that's actually the big contrast between Mirran and Phyrexian blue in SOM block. Stitchers cut up corpses (aka garbage) to make things that are animate and useful. Once again I'm kind of at a loss for how to respond when your argument is stuff that you just invented out of nowhere.

All of those are still improvements to their current situation

Which is not what we're talking about. Perfection and improvement mean very specific things here. You might as well argue that because "every color wants to stay alive" that life isn't a green thing, or that because "every color wants to follow its own law" that law isn't a white thng.

Some further examples. +1/+1 counters, White and equipments matter, black and immortality through various means,...

Yes other colors aren't literally banned from ever improving anything in any context.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

You guys think Mono W Humans are still viable in standard post-Eldritch Moon?

It will be Sigarda's Aid equipment humans. A lot of the same stuff and still mono white.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Blue has never been the "all flesh must be purged" color outside Phyrexia; that's actually the big contrast between Mirran and Phyrexian blue in SOM block. Stitchers cut up corpses (aka garbage) to make things that are animate and useful. Once again I'm kind of at a loss for how to respond when your argument is stuff that you just invented out of nowhere.

not all but most of it I brought this up and specifically mentioned esper because that is self mutilation. I didn't start with the destructive, you brought it up to argue against Green's perfection through evolution and mutation that has been my argument.

Which is not what we're talking about. Perfection and improvement mean very specific things here. You might as well argue that because "every color wants to stay alive" that life isn't a green thing, or that because "every color wants to follow its own law" that law isn't a white thng.

MaRo's and your argument is Blue tries to improve everyone and everything, which would make all improvements at least partially blue. I must have missed when blue is the colour of perfection has been in any way very specific.

Life isn't a green thing, black lifesteals, white and green lifegain about equally. Law is BW, rule and morals are universal.

Yes other colors aren't literally banned from ever improving anything in any context.

but blue is the colour of perfection through improvement anyways, even if they don't ever intend to reach perfection because all that makes sense.