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@KenLally
Game industry makes 3 TIMES as much annual $ as the Hollywood film industry. Actors don't #PerformanceMatters

I'm on board with their outlined requests, but the quote above was probably bad dots to connect. It immensely overvalues their performances and contribution to a game, which leaves you with the opposite effect of what their hashtag is supposed to get across. It's hard to feel very strongly about this subject though with the overall quality of voice acting. I could probably count the performances I thought were great on one hand, whereas the vast majority probably land on the afternoon TV or anime spectrum.

Best of luck to them though. I hope maybe other branches of the game industry can take note and unionise themselves too.

 

[vagabondarts]

Their gripes come off as selfish in an industry dominated by underpaid artists and creators in general.

Residuals aren't paid to any other contributing artist that often does more for the game and influences more purchases.

Who buys games based on the voice acting talent? Maybe other voice actors.

Contractor artists deal with the same tax burdens and often make less than voice actors who put less time in. That's why I think this won't succeed, not because they don't deserve to make a fair price, but because what it means for the industry if companies give in.

It's time for artists to unionize

 

[Roshin]

Support unions.

Good luck to them. The games industry needs more unionization for all walks of employees, especially code monkeys and "expendable" studio employees. Hopefully this will be a good push for better benefits and regulation for the ethical treatment of talent.

First post gets it.

 

[petran79]

If they get the support of the Japanese VA unions, the whole gaming industry will tremble!

 

[dancrane212]

We propose that the actual title of the project should be made available to at least our representatives before we are asked to audition.

Voice actors aren't exactly known for their ability to not share information that is meant to be private. With how secretive games are, especially early-on, I can see why those titles are withheld.

 

[benicillin]

Erin is indeed incredibly amazing, but she's not SAG.

I'd be surprised if she wasn't SAG since she's been hardcore on Twitter campaigning for this for the last day or two.

Their gripes come off as selfish in an industry dominated by underpaid artists and creators in general.

Residuals aren't paid to any other contributing artist that often does more for the game and influences more purchases.

Who buys games based on the voice acting talent? Maybe other voice actors.

Contractor artists deal with the same tax burdens and often make less than voice actors who put less time in. That's why I think this won't succeed, not because they don't deserve to make a fair price, but because what it means for the industry if companies give in.

It's time for artists to unionize

Maybe it comes off as selfish if you have no perspective of anything, yeah. Artists are underpaid and artists should unionize, totally, but there's no reason for so many people to keep throwing out how unimportant VAs are in a game. They're just as important as anyone else and we should support them (and any other group in the industry who needs to unionize) to continue making the industry great.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Good for them. Hope it goes well. I always support unions action. Very proudly joined one myself this year.

 

[vagabondarts]

Maybe it comes off as selfish if you have no perspective of anything, yeah. Artists are underpaid and artists should unionize, totally, but there's no reason for so many people to keep throwing out how unimportant VAs are in a game. They're just as important as anyone else and we should support them (and any other group in the industry who needs to unionize) to continue making the industry great.

Without artists killing themselves for months or years to create the game assets your game is lines of code. Without voice acting that takes hours, you have to read the story instead.
I'm sorry, they're just not equitable.

Bringing residuals into this (which should be reserved for programmers and artists in my opinion) is selfish. I fail to see how I'm lacking perspective. I'm deeply passionate about this.

My argument is that if this succeeds then artists and programmers need to unionize immediately.

 

[2 Slice Toaster]

My argument is that if this succeeds then artists and programmers need to unionize immediately.

That shouldn't be the argument thought. Artists and programmers need to organize immediately REGARDLESS if this initiative succeeds or fails.

Are people asking for voice actors to organize for artists and programmers, since they are not willing to do it for themselves?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Fortunately the publishers won't be able to outsource the VA to a third world country for a tenth of the price. I bet some have thought about it though

One thing you can't under-estimate though is the lure of hollywood. Amongst other reasons (like there being a load of actors about and a number of good facilities) why dialog is mainly recorded in LA, the writers, producers and creative leads love that week in the hollywood studio with the actors, feels like you're in the movies If the publishers take this away from them some toys will get thrown out of the pram.

Suddenly I had to think about all characters speaking with an indian accent.

Anyways I'm all for Unions unless it ends up like where I live where teachers alone have multiple unions which associate themselves with different political parties and have been halting progress in our horribly outdated school system for years.

 

[benicillin]

Without artists killing themselves for months or years to create the game assets your game is lines of code. Without voice acting that takes hours, you have to read the story instead.
I'm sorry, they're just not equitable.

Bringing residuals into this (which should be reserved for programmers and artists in my opinion) is selfish. I fail to see how I'm lacking perspective. I'm deeply passionate about this.

My argument is that if this succeeds then artists and programmers need to unionize immediately.

Artists are just as important as voice actors are to the final product and voice actors are just as important as artists are to the final product. Ignoring the importance of voice actors is throwing away the leaps and bounds games have made since VO was not a common thing. I mean, we don't need artists either, we could all just play text adventures or pong instead.

They aren't asking for residuals, they're asking for tiered bonuses depending on how many units a game sells (as far as I know) (and which everyone should get) and better working conditions.

EDIT: I'll link their own explanation right here...

We’re asking for a reasonable performance bonus for every 2 million copies, or downloads sold, or 2 million unique subscribers to online-only games, with a cap at 8 million units/ subscribers. That shakes out, potentially, to FOUR bonus payments for the most successful games: 2 million, 4 million, 6 million and 8 million copies.
It’s a simple approach to secondary payments, and it’ll net you up to four extra union scale payments for your performance (currently $3300.00).
Management will tell you that only 20 percent of video games use union talent, so there isn’t enough penetration in the market to warrant this type of payment. It may be true that when you factor in every single game (including games without any Voice over or Performance Capture) on every single platform (including phones), union penetration is only 20 percent, but we did some research on this issue. We looked at the 100 top-selling games of the past two years and found that of the games with sales numbers that would trigger a secondary payment under this proposal - the “blockbusters” - the penetration of union performers is nearly 100 percent. That’s why we positioned our “ask” at 2 million copies – it’s where most games start to turn a profit, and it’s where all the union talent is found.

 

[Kurdel]

Good for them, they have my support!

 

[Lalalandia]

Good for them, I hope the other folks involved (coders, animators, modelers, artists, etc) see this and think 'Wait where are my residuals?'. Craft unions in film and television have done a lot to ensure that producers don't take the mickey when it comes to the less visible folks.

Let's not get distracted by public sector unions though, the push/pull dynamic between employee and employer gets very muddied there.

 

[BlackLagoon]

I'd be surprised if she wasn't SAG since she's been hardcore on Twitter campaigning for this for the last day or two.

Presumably she has financial core status, which means she isn't a SAG member but can work on SAG projects (and thus could benefit from this.)

Ficore used to be seen as the same as putting "I can't get real work" on their resume, but it become more prevalent among anime voice actors since a lot of dubs are non-union, and then several of those actors started getting bigger and bigger roles.

 

[TwoDurans]

I get that it's cool to hate game publishers, but you can't look at this argument blindly and weigh in favor of one side over the other. Both are right, and both are wrong.

While I completely agree that Voice Actors should be a part of the game's internal bonus pool, putting it at 2M is far too low for some game's breakeven point. I've seen games that needed to sell double that just to turn a small profit, and setting the VA bonus point that low could cause it to go even higher.

I hope that this can get worked out very, very quickly as both sides have arguments that make sense. I do think comparing voice talent to movie talent isn't the right play, however. We live in a world where Tom Cruise hung outside a giant plane to entertain us. Comparing that to an actor who worked 3 4-hour sessions to act in a game doesn't do the voice actors any favors.

 

[cartman414]

Artists are just as important as voice actors are to the final product and voice actors are just as important as artists are to the final product. Ignoring the importance of voice actors is throwing away the leaps and bounds games have made since VO was not a common thing. I mean, we don't need artists either, we could all just play text adventures or pong instead.

Wow. False equivalency if ever there was one. VO in games has only been a thing for the most part since the turn of the millennium. A good percentage of all time greats have zero voice acting. And guess what? Some of those were RPGs! With visuals and stuff!

The Baldur's Gate series had top notch voice-over, but even in absentia of said voice over, the series would still be every bit as great.

Their gripes come off as selfish in an industry dominated by underpaid artists and creators in general.

Residuals aren't paid to any other contributing artist that often does more for the game and influences more purchases.

Who buys games based on the voice acting talent? Maybe other voice actors.

Contractor artists deal with the same tax burdens and often make less than voice actors who put less time in. That's why I think this won't succeed, not because they don't deserve to make a fair price, but because what it means for the industry if companies give in.

It's time for artists to unionize

I've seen quite a few Facebook and Twitter response posts to the effect of voiceover being the most important part.

 

[benicillin]

Wow. False equivalency if ever there was one. VO in games has only been a thing for the most part since the turn of the millennium. A good percentage of all time greats have zero voice acting. And guess what? Some of those were RPGs! With visuals and stuff!

I never said that games without voice acting weren't great - I'm playing through the newer Shadowrun games right now and they're fantastic, for example. But I also love games like Mass Effect, and quality voice acting was a huge and integral thing that made those games great. Characters like Mordin, Thane and Garrus would not be nearly the same without the input and fantastic performances by those actors.

VO isn't a necessary part of every game, obviously, but you can't say that VO isn't important or as equal to other parts of the game when in many games it's a huge component. The Last of Us or the Walking Dead wouldn't have been the same experiences with poor or no VO.

 

[NHarmonic.]

If they get Nolan North, Troy Baker, and Laura Bailey in they could shut down the whole industry with a strike.

Yeah, pretty much. Lol

 

[Trojita]

"Screw these guys, artists and programmers should unionize instead!"

Why not all of them? It's not like only one group gets to unionize.

 

[vagabondarts]

"Screw these guys, artists and programmers should unionize instead!"

Why not all of them? It's not like only one group gets to unionize.

It's true. I've always felt that way. Consider this my wake up call to try and move towards real change for artists.

My support is with them, just to speak clearly.

 

[Squire]

Also, using a variant of BlackLivesMatter is indefensible.

This hashtag is not a variation of Black Lives Matter. It has existed for multiple years.

North and the other actors who consistently get cast in major AAA titles stand to really benefit though. Troy Baker would be looking at near the max bonus for TLOU, Bioshock, MGSV, Arkham Knight, and COD AW.

That's true, too! I suppose then the question they ask themselves is whether it's worth it to fight in the short term. They might not have a choice, of course, given majority rules.

 

[injurai]

Guess what, the programmers and graphical artists don't make shit in Hollywood. Video games are some of the most cost inefficient entertainment to make.

 

[Mega]

Wow. False equivalency if ever there was one. VO in games has only been a thing for the most part since the turn of the millennium. A good percentage of all time greats have zero voice acting. And guess what? Some of those were RPGs! With visuals and stuff!

The Baldur's Gate series had top notch voice-over, but even in absentia of said voice over, the series would still be every bit as great.

I've seen quite a few Facebook and Twitter response posts to the effect of voiceover being the most important part.

The turn of the millennium was a long time ago. Metal Gear Solid would not have revolutionized cinematic gaming without all that voice acting work in place, and that was in 1998. It's very important and I think complaining that artists and programmers have had it worse for longer is missing the point. Someone out there always has it worse. What bearing does it have on the validity of another group's fight to improve its work conditions? None at all.

 

[cartman414]

The turn of the millennium was a long time ago. Metal Gear Solid would not have revolutionized cinematic gaming without all that voice acting work in place, and that was in 1998. It's very important and I think complaining that artists and programmers have had it worse for longer is missing the point. Someone out there always has it worse. What bearing does it have on the validity of another group's fight to improve its work conditions? None at all.

Not arguing against it. Just saying; the industry is still in its relative infancy! Many more years have passed without VO in gaming than with.

 

[Trojita]

What happened to injurai?

 

[StereoVsn]

I never said that games without voice acting weren't great - I'm playing through the newer Shadowrun games right now and they're fantastic, for example. But I also love games like Mass Effect, and quality voice acting was a huge and integral thing that made those games great. Characters like Mordin, Thane and Garrus would not be nearly the same without the input and fantastic performances by those actors.

VO isn't a necessary part of every game, obviously, but you can't say that VO isn't important or as equal to other parts of the game when in many games it's a huge component. The Last of Us or the Walking Dead wouldn't have been the same experiences with poor or no VO.

I think its hugely depends on the genre. PoE, Shadowrun, Divinity, Wasteland are all recent CRPGs and voicework either does not exist or barely there and I couldn't care less. Same with most indie games and platformers. Hell, I can play ME1 without voicework and not really lose much.

Now, if you are talking "Cinematic" games like Uncharted, MGS, TLOU, etc... then yeah, voice acting adds a lot more.

The industry figures that voice acting guild is quoting is kind of bullshit though. That has to include pretty much everything. Unlike TV/Film majority of games don't actually include voice acting (if you count mobile games, multiplayer, F2P, MMOs, etc...) or its quite limited.

I think voice actors are overestimating their pull in the industry and the attraction they bring. That said, fair pay is fair pay so it's going to be interesting what happens. I kind of think residual bit is somewhat BS though.

 

[Nzyme32]

While it is good that they try and make things better for voice actors - many of the people making the games are not paid adequately, and it is really debatable whether voice actors should be paid further more than those developing - just as is seen with the massive gulf in pay between actors, and those behind the many other aspects of film / television

 

[TyrantII]

As someone that thinks everyone deserves to be paid more, I support this.

Don't hawk at burger flippers wanting a living wage for a 40 hour work week, direct your ire upwards since your CEO is making 500 times the employee average while your wages have stagnated for 30 years.

If a job/work can't support a person outright, its just being proper up by a government looking the other way and tax dollars in the form of welfare.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Something about this rubs me up the wrong way. In the film industry, the actor/actress are pretty much one of the major elements of a film, whereas with gaming, it's the gameplay and the devs. The two mediums just aren't comparable like this va is trying to do.

If the games industry makes 3 times as much money then it's the people doing the real work to get a game running who deserve the money (yet it's the publishers who likely do)

That is why I would compare it more toward animated TV. For it to work, you need a good script, good animation, decent VA, and something to stick with people. With video games you have to add gameplay elements to it, but still you need everything else from a TV show to work. Games are even structured like TV with chapters and Until Dawn/Alone in the Dark structured their chapters like a TV show.

A movie would be about 2 chapters of a video game, which is why the scale makes little sense for me. A TV show can have some bad episodes and still be worth watching just like a game can have bad chapters and still be fun. A movie has to be consistent the whole 2-3 hours.

 

[FStop7]

I wholehearted support this, but that is one terrible choice of words for a hashtag. Like, just awful.

It predates BLM. That should probably be added to the OP.

When the music association and the video game industry couldn't come to an agreement, video games didn't use union composers for around 3-5+ years despite having to get new composers for almost every major series, so I'm not sure how good their odds are.

Which is why the development side needs to unionize, too.

 

[Sectorseven]

If the development side tries to unionize, they have to be very careful with their bargaining tactics. We've seen what countries like Ukraine have produced under far poorer working conditions, and it's only a matter of time until China catches up. American talent could very easily price itself out of the market.

 

[Lalalandia]

If the development side tries to unionize, they have to be very careful with their bargaining tactics. We've seen what countries like Ukraine have produced under far poorer working conditions, and it's only a matter of time until China catches up. American talent could very easily price itself out of the market.

And yet Seattle and Silicon Valley are filled with some very expensive coders (quite a few from low cost locations), why aren't they all in markets with only a tenuous grasp of IP law and a legal system that makes enforcement less likely than the US going communist? There are more business costs than salaries and more complex risks than unions outside of the US.

 

[Spaghetti]

We believe actors should get stunt pay for vocally stressful recording sessions the same way they get stunt pay for physically demanding roles. That’s why we’re proposing to limit “vocally stressful” recording sessions to two hours at the same union minimums.

dragonball voice actors about to MAKE BANK

 

[Steel]

http://www.newzoo.com/infographics/global-games-market-report-infographics/

I mean it doesn't excuse the fact that AAA games still rake in the dough and voice actors should be paid more though.

Voice actors may deserve to be paid more(Developers should be paid more as well), and I honestly agree with all their other points fully but the Hollywood comparison just doesn't really fly with games.

I mean, looking at some popular games where voice acting is either minimal, or a small part of the experience you get the idea that the majority of gaming revenue is brought in by games that don't rely on it:

Minecraft
Dota 2 and its MOBA family
Counter-strike
Civilization
Call of Duty 4+: Yeah there's a campaign but barely anyone actually plays it.
Battlefield: Same as above but even worse.
Pokemon
Mario
The Souls series

And there's more of course, but you get the idea. Then you have series like the Elder Scrolls which has had a lot of voice acting since IV, but the quality is minimal, and yet the games still sell well. The main standout popular AAA games that have voice acting front and center as an integral part of the experience are kinda rare too. I mean, you have: Uncharted, The Last of Us, Bioware games, GTA, and Gears. The Hollywood comparisons are pretty much uncalled for.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Some of their requests are incredibly legitimate.

Not having trainers for stunts to make sure no one gets hurt is crazy. Especially when they're motion capturing the voice actors for the cutscenes and asking them to do things with no supervision.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Yeah this should be easy for a lot of people to get behind. If you love games then you should support the actors getting compensated fairly and their working conditions improved.

Didn't know about so much info being withheld from actors prior to auditioning. How can you perform for something when you don't even know what the project is?

 

[DMiz]

I'm behind this but I'm also in the same camp that feels like programmers, artists, and sound design should get a first crack at this.

Some people have asked why they can't all unionize, but the concern that I have is that if this campaign succeeds and is dealt with first, companies may not necessarily stand for another union and will go out of their way to minimize the amount of aquiescing they have to do down the road for those unions that form after the first. Note that I have no formal education in economics or trade labour or work rights, so if this has not been historically proven or studies have shown otherwise - do prove me wrong, as I would rather have the correct handle on this. The following is otherwise based on this assumption.

As much respect as I have for some of the voice talent that we have in this industry, I can't help but feel that programmers, artists, and sound design should get a fair crack at this first to maximize their benefits, considering the over time, burn out, and hostile practices that we know most regularly go through. Temporary contract work is the norm because employee benefits are an expense that big companies do not want to pay.

My understanding is that voice actors usually do not work over time (but please correct as necessary). I am not aware of burnout but recognize some of the safety risks in motion capture. They are on a contract basis, but that's in the nature of performing arts (since by design the profession is meant to involve giving a performance for a set production as auditioned).

Am I saying that voice actors don't also suffer? No. But I can't help but reason that production staff should get a first crack because there is more to petition and therefore gain from that group in a "first attempt".

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

It's hard for me to care. Don't like it, find a new job. I don't understand why some people think they're entitled to more.

Personally, I'd like for a new batch of voice actors to come in and replace the current ones. They won't be complaining, as they just want to get their names out there.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Also, voice acting isn't all that important in games. There's a reason that voice acting funds are low on the forum pole of games.

If you told me that Fallout 4 didn't have voice acting, and I had to read everything, I'm sure I'd still love it.

 

[Lalalandia]

I'm behind this but I'm also in the same camp that feels like programmers, artists, and sound design should get a first crack at this.

....

Am I saying that voice actors don't also suffer? No. But I can't help but reason that production staff should get a first crack because there is more to petition and therefore gain from that group in a "first attempt".

Perfect should not be the enemy of the good. Actor's had to fight Hollywood hard to get union recognition (a big part of the McCarthy hoo ha were studios taking revenge) and have a very string union already. It's natural and best for them to go first as they have a strong base.

Professionals in IT and game design come from a profession that has largely been non-unionised over the years. Organising that will take time and effort better for the hard yards to be fought by mature groups that know the game.

As for concerns about 'closing the door' on more unions that's a fallacy that relies on the door ever having been open in the first place. Unions have to smash down doors to get to the table and it has always been thus.

 

[Abounder]

The only point I agree with is having a stunt coordinator for safety precautions, but then again not all scenes really need that. I also like the idea that companies can use non-union employees but the actors (obviously) are fighting against that point

Godspeed

 

[CloudyTuba]

Using hollywood as a reference doesnt help their cause. Hollywood actors are criminally overpaid. Same goes for athletes.

People who risk their lives to run into fire and save other peoples lives may take in $100,000 a year if theyre lucky, while someone who pretends to be a secret agent gets $16,000,000 for 6 months of work and an extra $5,000,000 for holding a cell phone.

 

[the210]

Using hollywood as a reference doesnt help their cause. Hollywood actors are criminally overpaid. Same goes for athletes.

People who risk their lives to run into fire and save other peoples lives may take in $100,000 a year if theyre lucky, while someone who pretends to be a secret agent gets $16,000,000 for 6 months of work and an extra $5,000,000 for holding a cell phone.

The problem with that is the athlete is the product and they have a skill that people will pay to see. Nobody is paying money to see a fire fighter. Athletes and established actors make a lot but they bring in a lot more.
I'm generally in favor of unions ( police unions are giving me doubts) while having spent my entire life in a non-Union state. I for VA's getting protections but let's not pretend that people arent going to have wildly varying opinions on what a fair wage is for what they contribute.

 

[Glendemonium]

Will this pave way for a return of shitty, yet hilariously charming bad voice acting?


Starting to feel nostalgic for the video game voice acting from the '90s.

As much I hate to admit it, it's part of the charm for games to have horrid voice acting. I remember ragging on Mega Man 8's voices and some of the older Dynasty Warriors.

This is eerily similar to the writers strike a few years back, and many remember how bad it was where programs were on hiatus or just plain bad. Hope it gets resolved.

 

[Loakum]

If they get Nolan North, Troy Baker, and Laura Bailey in they could shut down the whole industry with a strike.

So much truth in this statement.

 

[rickyson1]

loads of people see movies because specific actors are in them

does anyone ever play a game just because a specific voice actor is involved?

from what I can see the general quality of it is the only thing people really care about(it not being offensively awful or whatever etc)

and plenty of games get away without voice acting at all

 

[Anoregon]

I'm going to have throw my hat into the "yes, but..." camp. I don't necessarily disagree with what the voice actors are asking for, but I think it's pretty much impossible to argue that the voice actors have a tougher, more demanding job than so many of the under-compensated, non-unionized programmers who do the grunt work of actually getting the games up and running. That is certainly not the fault or even the purview of the voice actors, but it's a bigger concern regardless.

 

[Nanashrew]

It's hard for me to care. Don't like it, find a new job. I don't understand why some people think they're entitled to more.

Personally, I'd like for a new batch of voice actors to come in and replace the current ones. They won't be complaining, as they just want to get their names out there.

If you love your job, why would you want to find a new one? When you love your job it's practically not a job. Voice actors are very under appreciated and yet they continue to do the job because they love it.

 

[benicillin]

I'm going to have throw my hat into the "yes, but..." camp. I don't necessarily disagree with what the voice actors are asking for, but I think it's pretty much impossible to argue that the voice actors have a tougher, more demanding job than so many of the under-compensated, non-unionized programmers who do the grunt work of actually getting the games up and running. That is certainly not the fault or even the purview of the voice actors, but it's a bigger concern regardless.

It's a really great thing no one is really saying that, then. And if programmers came out and unionized and were doing this then I'd totally support them. But what programmers are or aren't doing has literally absolutely nothing to do with voice actors looking for fair contracts.

 

[Nekofrog]

Something about this rubs me up the wrong way. In the film industry, the actor/actress are pretty much one of the major elements of a film, whereas with gaming, it's the gameplay and the devs. The two mediums just aren't comparable like this va is trying to do.

If the games industry makes 3 times as much money then it's the people doing the real work to get a game running who deserve the money (yet it's the publishers who likely do)

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

have you seen how long credits are now for movies?