Do you have any data for Asia? I don't (except the big growth with each year) so i am legit curious if it's really a drop in the bucket as you say.
Drop in a bucket is not hyperbolic, by large Asia is a small faction of Japan sales for Japanese publishers. We know this from financial disclosures.Need receipts on Asia being a drop in the bucket. A drop seems very hyperbolic.
Neither game was a western launch title. 3rd party Japanese games werent doing especially well on PS4 in the west until finally this year either but now we do have some good success stories like Persona 5, Nier Automata or Nioh.You listed two niche Japanese third party games, both at launch and your last statement just seems even more disillusioned with reality, considering the Ps4 has nearly 10 times the userbase of the SW and is outselling it worldwide.
This idea that PS4 would see a decrease of Japanese support couldn't be further from reality when nearly every Japanese third party game is releasing on it, far more than any other platform.
Do you have any data for Asia? I don't (except the big growth with each year) so i am legit curious if it's really a drop in the bucket as you say.
Need receipts on Asia being a drop in the bucket. A drop seems very hyperbolic.
Drop in a bucket is not hyperbolic, by large Asia is a small faction of Japan sales for Japanese publishers. We know this from financial disclosures.
Capcom Q1 FY2018
Japan: 350,000 units
Asia: 50,000 units
Bandai Namco Q1 FY2018
Japan: ¥113,121,000,000
Asia: ¥9,534,000,000
Sega FY 2017
Japan: 1,850 units
Asia: 1,060 units
Square Enix FY2017
Japan: ¥168,546,000,000
Asia (and others): ¥9,003,000,000
Koei Tecmo FY2017
Japan: 73.1% of sales
Asia: 9.1% of sales
It seems to me like the significance of Asia for Japanese publishers gets vastly overstated in these threads. Mostly in defense of heavy PS4 support.
You listed two niche Japanese third party games, both at launch and your last statement just seems even more disillusioned with reality, considering the Ps4 has nearly 10 times the userbase of the SW and is outselling it worldwide.
This idea that PS4 would see a decrease of Japanese support couldn't be further from reality when nearly every Japanese third party game is releasing on it, far more than any other platform.
Neither game was a western launch title. 3rd party Japanese games weren't doing especially well on PS4 in the west until finally this year either but now we do have some good success stories like Persona 5, Nier Automata or Nioh.
Also, I'm not sure PS4 is outselling Switch globally. This year it's been 6.2m in 6 months for PS4 vs 4.7m in 4 months for Switch under historic supply constraints. I expect Switch to be comfortably ahead for Jul-Sep given increased shipments this quarter.
Used to lurk only, but yes you're right. lol
Most Switch games will get big bumps this holiday season, so people should be prepared to see Arms coming back already.
This one surprises me, i guess fighterZ is a lock now.
Im impressed,this is quite a researchDrop in a bucket is not hyperbolic, by large Asia is a small faction of Japan sales for Japanese publishers. We know this from financial disclosures.
Capcom Q1 FY2018
Japan: 350,000 units
Asia: 50,000 units
Bandai Namco Q1 FY2018
Japan: ¥113,121,000,000
Asia: ¥9,534,000,000
Sega FY 2017
Japan: 1,850,000 units
Asia: 1,060,000 units
Square Enix FY2017
Japan: ¥168,546,000,000
Asia (and others): ¥9,003,000,000
Koei Tecmo FY2017
Japan: 73.1% of sales
Asia: 9.1% of sales
It seems to me like the significance of Asia for Japanese publishers gets vastly overstated in these threads. Mostly in defense of heavy PS4 support.
Neither game was a western launch title. 3rd party Japanese games werent doing especially well on PS4 in the west until finally this year either but now we do have some good success stories like Persona 5, Nier Automata or Nioh.
Also, Im not sure PS4 is outselling Switch globally. This year its been 6.2m in 6 months for PS4 vs 4.7m in 4 months for Switch under historic supply constraints. I expect Switch to be comfortably ahead for Jul-Sep given increased shipments this quarter.
I think one of the reasons that Arms sales has been kinda lackluster is because of Nintendos post launch supports.Unlike splatoon 2 which they have been dropping events for it continuously,Arms supports are nothing but an update a dlc character,a few stages and some arms months after launch500k LTD will be a succesful result in Japan. So far it has legs. There is no contest for Switch this December, holiday sales could make it a 350-400k seller by January.
Hello, police?
Ive witnessed a murder.
Damn friend code aint messing around.
Switch should be above 7 Million easily right?
I would say so, though maybe not easily.Damn friend code aint messing around.
Switch should be above 7 Million easily right?
Where is Arms?
Metroid top 30 😁
Drop in a bucket is not hyperbolic, by large Asia is a small faction of Japan sales for Japanese publishers. We know this from financial disclosures.
Capcom Q1 FY2018
Japan: 350,000 units
Asia: 50,000 units
Bandai Namco Q1 FY2018
Japan: ¥113,121,000,000
Asia: ¥9,534,000,000
Sega FY 2017
Japan: 1,850,000 units
Asia: 1,060,000 units
Square Enix FY2017
Japan: ¥168,546,000,000
Asia (and others): ¥9,003,000,000
Koei Tecmo FY2017
Japan: 73.1% of sales
Asia: 9.1% of sales
It seems to me like the significance of Asia for Japanese publishers gets vastly overstated in these threads. Mostly in defense of heavy PS4 support.
Was the Super Famicom's numbers just not noteworthy or something? Haven't seen anyone talk about it.
Dont like agreeing with Spieler Eins, but yeah.Mario & Luigi has gone beyond its intended life span. Time... to die.
It only sold 1.771 last week, and DQX Switch is at 1.798 this week, so ARMS is likely #31.
You talking about the Friendcode reading Laplasakos and Psycho_Mantis for utter filth?
Now that Everybody's Golf said good bye too, Gran Turismo is Sony's last big Japanese developed IP in question.
Until Knack 3.
But seriously, the death of Minna no Golf is really sad. That was a staple of Playstation games in Japan. Everyone had a game from this series in the PS1/PS2 days, even people who don't care for golf. It started fading on the PS3 but the PS4 title was a disaster. I hope they find a way to revive it because I really like this series. And there are very few colorful casual sports games these days. Mario Tennis, Minna no Golf, Power Pro Baseball.. are there even any others these days?
Oh yeah, I just noticed that. I guess the mobile game didn't help significantly to rejuvenate the franchise like Pokémon Go did.
Now that Everybody's Golf said good bye too, Gran Turismo is Sony's last big Japanese developed IP in question.
AhahDid anything come out of that Verendus SCEJ RPG leak?
Thought about adding that one. But isn't it more of an RPG with Golf elements? I must say I'm not sure. I haven't played it yet. I really want to. But it hasn't hit the Japanese eShop yet. Same with Stardew Valley.
I need to get some NA point cards..
Bandai Namco doesnt have unit data for Asia, only Japan, Americas and Europe. This suggests to me Asia isnt a very relevant market for their console games and me using overall revenue figures is more likely overstating Asia for them in this context.Many of the companies you listed here are not just console game companies. For example only half of SE's income was from console games while they also have mobile game, arcade, publishing, figure and other business. Most of those business do not exist outside Japan. Same is probably true for Bandai Namco. Using income as a metric is not accurate here.
When you look at copies sold, Sega's data shows a very impressive split. Actually it's way too high. I suspect it includes Sega Europe's PC titles, which are much bigger in China than in Japan going by Steamspy data. As for Capcom, the only other other company with unit data, their Q1 in Japan mostly just rides on the leg of MHXX, which is a title exclusive to Japan on Nintendo platform which kind of proves the point.
The performance of games in Asia should be studied in a game by game manner. You have some Japanese games that sells way more in the west, while some other games only perform well domestically. This kind of discrepancy also exists in Asia. Some franchises are just bigger in Asia, while others are not. The platform they are on also plays a big role. It's hard to give a percentage to describe how Asia market mitigates sales loss in Japan. But Asia market is something Japanese companies must try. They are also trying to sell more copies in the west, as MHW suggests, but that's even further from certainty than Asia market potential.
Are there indications that Gran Turismo will also see a decline?
And if so, do you think great Western sales of the PS4 indicate that the series will stay healthy?
Honest questions. I haven't really been following this title.
Bandai Namco doesn't have unit data for Asia, only Japan, Americas and Europe. This suggests to me Asia isn't a very relevant market for their console games and me using overall revenue figures is more likely overstating Asia for them in this context.
Koei Tecmo does include units but Japan still dwarfs Asia (3,060,000 to 1,070,000 FY2017). It is closer though.
Sega's data is for packaged game sales, meaning both physical and digital but it excludes console/PC games falling under Sega Online like PSO2. I would argue the relative closeness for Sega speaks more to a weakness in Japan than strength in Asia though. And Sega is the only company where the two regions are at all competitive, if nearly 2:1 is really competitive.
The vast majority of SE business comes from consumer games (¥196,016,000,000 out of ¥256,824,000,000) with the rest coming from arcades, publishing and merchandising. A breakdown isn't given of console/PC vs mobile/browser in this report although I do remember seeing it done elsewhere but I'll let you find that.
Capcom shipped 0 additional units of MHXX in Q1 going by their Platinum charts so your excuse here failed. For FY2017 they shipped 3,500,000 packaged games to Japan vs 400,000 for Asia, showing a similar ratio vs Q1 2018.
Asia may well be a vital console market some day and there is real growth opportunity in the region. But the data we have shows it still remains a tiny fraction of Japan and the growth has been limited. Looking at unique game performances doesn't help either since we have no direct sales tracking for Asia and when given shipment figures it's only for extraordinary successes from PR statements. To discount the more comprehensive investor data we have from publishers like this seems like you wanting to steer the narrative more than anything.
Rime switch will release November 16 in Japan, 3,780 yen (tax included).
https://ec.nintendo.com/JP/ja/titles/70010000001785
US: November 14
Europe: 17
aww yes,Ive been waiting for this oneRime switch will release November 16 in Japan, 3,780 yen (tax included).
https://ec.nintendo.com/JP/ja/titles/70010000001785
US: November 14
Europe: 17
Media Create:
01./00. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 84.277 / NEW <48,95%>
04./01. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 27.120 / 111.396 (-68%)
06./04. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 12.811 / 124.207 (-53%)
10./06. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 9.414 / 133.621 (-27%)
12./10. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 6.911 / 140.533 (-27%)
14./12. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 6.350 / 146.883 (-8%)
14./14. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 4.785 / 151.668 (-25%)
Famitsu:
01./00. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 94.973 / NEW <40-60%>
05./01. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 27.289 / 122.262 (-71%)
06./05. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 13.983 / 136.245 (-49%)
10./06. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 9.464 / 145.709 (-32%)
13./10. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 6.947 / 152.656 (-27%)
14./13. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 6.443 / 159.099 (-7%)
17./14. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 4.738 / 163.837
Media Create:
04./00. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 106.388 / NEW
12./04. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 23.213 / 129.601 (-78%)
31./12. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
27./31. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
29./27. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
21./29. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
31./21. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
35./31. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
47./35. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
48./47. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
185. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 48.321 / 207.627
656./185. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 4.160 / 211.787 (106.388 <69,82%>)
812./656. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 2.327 / 214.114 (-44%) (106.388 <69,82%>)
962./812. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 1.171 / 215.285 (-50%) (106.388 <69,82%>)
Famitsu:
05./00. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 110.149 / NEW
12./05. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 25.492 / 135.641 (-77%)
-
27./00. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012-12-08} - 14,494 / 166,908 (-14%)
25./27. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 14.656 / 181.564 (+1%)
20./25. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 5.957 / 187.521 (-59%)
25./20. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 4.392 / 191.913 (-26%)
30./25. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 3.300 / 195.213 (-25%)
159. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 58.078 / 224.986
I went to look around, so it's locked 30 FPS? Wow.
Your math on SE doesnt make sense, arcade games (amusement) is already excluded from the figures there. And are you saying SE does no business on mobile or browser in Asia?We are looking at a 3:1 ratio for KT and 2:1 ratio for Sega. To me that's big enough, definitely not a tiny fraction.
As for SE, we don't know what exactly the split is between mobile and conosle, but I remember it's roughly 1:1. So that's ¥100,000,000,000 (keep in mind this is global, not just Japan) for console games. Asia's total income is ¥9,003,000,000 which is basically all console game (maybe they operate arcades in Taiwan, but I very much doubt it matters). So 9% of the (global) income of console game is from Asia. Keep in mind SE released FFXV, Deus Ex, Hitman, and Tomb Raider PS4 last year, all performing much better in the west than in Japan. So when we take out the big chunk of western income, the ratio between Japan and Asia gets even smaller.
For Capcom, I do not know why the ratio is so small. Maybe MHW will change that because that's the only Capcom title that appeals to Asia.
As for the steering the narrative, I still believe actual game sales data is far more indicative than total income. Notice that the ratio changes from 7:1 to 3:1 for KT when we change the metric, and that's a drastic difference, so who is steering the narrative really?
Bandai Namco doesnt have unit data for Asia, only Japan, Americas and Europe. This suggests to me Asia isnt a very relevant market for their console games and me using overall revenue figures is more likely overstating Asia for them in this context.
Koei Tecmo does include units but Japan still dwarfs Asia (3,060,000 to 1,070,000 FY2017). It is closer though.
Segas data is for packaged game sales, meaning both physical and digital but it excludes console/PC games falling under Sega Online like PSO2. I would argue the relative closeness for Sega speaks more to a weakness in Japan than strength in Asia though. And Sega is the only company where the two regions are at all competitive, if nearly 2:1 is really competitive.
The vast majority of SE business comes from consumer games (¥196,016,000,000 out of ¥256,824,000,000) with the rest coming from arcades, publishing and merchandising. A breakdown isnt given of console/PC vs mobile/browser in this report although I do remember seeing it done elsewhere but Ill let you find that.
Capcom shipped 0 additional units of MHXX in Q1 going by their Platinum charts so your excuse here failed. For FY2017 they shipped 3,500,000 packaged games to Japan vs 400,000 for Asia, showing a similar ratio vs Q1 2018.
Asia may well be a vital console market some day and there is real growth opportunity in the region. But the data we have shows it still remains a tiny fraction of Japan and the growth has been limited. Looking at unique game performances doesnt help either since we have no direct sales tracking for Asia and when given shipment figures its only for extraordinary successes from PR statements. To discount the more comprehensive investor data we have from publishers like this seems like you wanting to steer the narrative more than anything.
Your math on SE doesnt make sense, arcade games (amusement) is already excluded from the figures there. And are you saying SE does no business on mobile or browser in Asia?
A drop in the bucket is a drop in the bucket. Im not seeing you or Alters providing any data to the contrary here, and the data here shows Asia remaining a fraction of Japan.I think Aters has a point here. What you posted is true but doing a 1:1 comparison (of the latest FY, which doesn't paint a full picture) does not seem fair. For example, the BN comparison isn't in units but in revenue. The SE number doesn't include only consumer games either. Koei Temco and Sega does seems to have a good ratio 3:1 and (almost) 2:1 but as i said i don't think this comparison is valid. Also, i doubt that all the work that gets to release in Japan arrives in all the other Asian countries.
Aside that, truth is that nobody doubts that Japan numbers are bigger than the rest of the other Asian countries. That's why i specifically talked about growth. It's your statement about a drop in the bucket that seems an exaggeration even after looking these numbers.
You are right on arcade games, they were only separated in the segments but not regions. I still have a hard time believing that ¥9B Asia data is basically all console games however unless you can source anything otherwise to that effect? Exactly which console games would SE have made $90m USD off of in Asia and why have we never heard about them?I believe that ¥9,003,000,000 number is for total income. I don't think SE has region breakdown for every category. So of course arcade should be included (otherwise the number is even more in my favor). SE made a push for Million Arthur blah blah in China some years ago. It was ok at the time but died down very quickly. Some mobile games have international servers, but none did extraordinarily well. Mobile game income data is easily accessible, and you can see their performance is not comparable to the boat loads of money they make in Japan.
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
|System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD | LTD |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
| NSW | 38.425 | 74.500 | | 1.847.008 | | 1.847.008 |
| PS4 # | 25.398 | 34.564 | 32.525 | 1.416.694 | 1.100.926 | 5.338.310 |
| 3DS # | 23.406 | 20.680 | 34.119 | 1.407.303 | 1.058.309 | 23.318.716 |
| PSV # | 3.987 | 4.256 | 7.976 | 326.937 | 684.961 | 5.574.356 |
| XB1 # | 189 | 53 | 102 | 6.274 | 4.499 | 79.222 |
| PS3 | 46 | 24 | 595 | 16.019 | 44.844 | 10.273.738 |
| WIU | 35 | 32 | 2.561 | 21.016 | 296.230 | 3.300.754 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
| ALL | 91.486 | 134.109 | 77.878 | 5.041.251 | 3.189.769 | 49.732.104 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
| XB1 S | 189 | 53 | | 1.492 | | 7.220 |
|PS4 Pro| 6.265 | 6.921 | | 257.847 | | 374.897 |
| PS4 | 19.133 | 27.643 | 32.525 | 1.158.847 | 1.100.926 | 4.963.413 |
| PSV | 3.987 | 4.256 | 7.976 | 326.937 | 684.961 | 5.574.356 |
|n-2DSLL| 13.979 | 10.081 | | 324.918 | | 324.918 |
| 2DS | 1.227 | 1.329 | 13.870 | 246.156 | 63.012 | 543.303 |
| n-3DS | 8.200 | 9.270 | 19.991 | 836.229 | 946.401 | 5.530.218 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
I think this makes sense. Asia and the west should be pursued but not necessairily at the expense of Japan, any global strategy should be all inclusive. Fortunately current major platforms (PS4, XB1, Switch, Windows PC) can more easily accomodate this than in the past this with a multiplatform approach and Japanese publishers would do well to take advantage of that.Also just going to say that jumping ship is, imo, to some extent a cause of the sinking ship even as it is, perhaps, a reaction to it.
I don't think the Japanese market need be as weak as it is today. Focusing on RoW growths even as they came to be at odds with domestic desires is, imo, a reason that Japan does not have a better market than it has.
Chasing the west used to be a viable way to do both well in Japan and abroad in the NES through PS2 eras or so. (Those times also happened to be a boom time for Japan-focused games and offered them a chance to become RoW-focused games.)
What I would like to see come about is an effort to a) support the Japanese domestic console market at the same time as b) those efforts can also be brought out in and attractive to an increasing share of the RoW.
To bring this to the topic and say my piece: I don't think Asian sales are an "answer." I also don't think it is healthy to look for them to be an "answer." At the same time, I think they should be pursued.
I don't think they are a good target to seek instead of trying to push the Japanese market.
Lol what? That shows Asia is vastly less lucrative per sale. Why would that make it more attractive?As for steering the narrative, I still believe actual game sales data is far more indicative than total income. Notice that the ratio changes from 7:1 to 3:1 for KT when we change the metric, and that's a drastic difference, so who is steering the narrative really?
I think this makes sense. Asia and the west should be pursued but not necessairily at the expense of Japan, any global strategy should be all inclusive. Fortunately current major platforms (PS4, XB1, Switch, Windows PC) can more easily accomodate this than in the past this with a multiplatform approach and Japanese publishers would do well to take advantage of that.