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Media Create Sales: Week 50, 2015 (Dec 07 - Dec 13)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
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Pennywise83
Banned
Is the Extreme Vs. arcade series not popular anymore? The game did 345k and 266k FW across the first two entries on PS3.
Pennywise83
Banned
The audience for this type of game is simply not there, plus Nintendo advertisement hasn't been stellar. This is, like, the second original jRPG on Wii U...?
DarkLordMalik
Member
But RPGs do well on Nintendo platform. Didn't you hear?
I think this is a pretty good illustration of the issue with trying to lump the 3DS and the Wii U as Nintendo platforms.
The 3DS behaves like a dominant platform where there's an audience for most types of titles.
The Wii U behaves like a niche platform owned almost entirely by heavy Nintendo enthusiasts and families with younger children.
DarkLordMalik
Member
This is a good point for sure. But I am also curious that is there any historical data to suggest that Nintendo consoles can sell RPGs? If NX is getting DQXI and FFVII: Remake, can it even sell comparable to PS4? The Wii was super popular yet Tales of Grace on PS3 outsold the Wii version easily.
There is no doubt that these RPGs do well on Nintendo handhelds, but definitely not on their consoles. Wii had games like XBX, The Last Story, Tales of Grace etc and yet they didn't really do much better than Xbox 360.
JRPGs are still something rare and special on Nintendo home consoles, ever since Sony took that market from them following the SNES.
The audience won't jump on board for that single interesting JRPGs per anno when the Playstation is getting 99% off the rest... Just not worth the effort. Especially when many publishers end up porting their games to handhelds or PS homesystems anyway.
I think the JRPGs audience could be easier established on NX if they indeed share libraries between handhelds and Homeconsole. Especially if SE, Level 5 and Monster Hun.. I mean Capcom are on board.
NX unveiling will be really interesting.
PS. No excuse for the low sales but it's not like most of these Wii(U) rpgs bombastic would have been really big sellers on PS consoles. Outside of FF, DQ, Tales and Persona it's not like there are that many high selling console rpgs left.
The audience won't jump on board for that single interesting JRPGs per anno when the Playstation is getting 99% off the rest... Just not worth the effort. Especially when many publishers end up porting their games to handhelds or PS homesystems anyway.
I think the JRPGs audience could be easier established on NX if they indeed share libraries between handhelds and Homeconsole. Especially if SE, Level 5 and Monster Hun.. I mean Capcom are on board.
NX unveiling will be really interesting.
PS. No excuse for the low sales but it's not like most of these Wii(U) rpgs bombastic would have been really big sellers on PS consoles. Outside of FF, DQ, Tales and Persona it's not like there are that many high selling console rpgs left.
Hero of Legend
Member
SIGH.
1. The game was released 1 week prior to FF13 which was basically the most hyped thing ever at the time.
2. The game was BROKEN, so badly it had to be recalled from stores and owners had to send their copies for new ones.
Nothing to do with Wii in the slightest, honestly that launch could not have gone worse.
DarkLordMalik
Member
That won't work with games that I have listed and which are used as example for NX. FFVII: Remake and DQXI will be locked to consoles. They won't be able to run on the next Nintendo handheld. Unless SE decides to create multiple games in same frachises targeting handhed/console. I doubt the audience will be there to support two consoles that way.
It is not like we didn't get a glimpse of such a system this generation. We had two big games (DQX and MH4U) on the Nintendo platforms.
If there isn't much of a JRPG audience on Nintendo consoles, then there is no use to bring up NX in any such discussion. At the end of the day, the sales of NX version won't have any affect on the PS4 version. Not many people will wait just to pick up their NX copies later down the line. It is not like Steam with long legs.
I can't say anything about XCX but #FE would have done well on a platform like Vita/PS4. It basically looks like a low-budget Persona that could have filled the void of Persona delay. I could see it opening with 100k atleast.
I am not port begging FYI.
We have yet to see the peak of the PS4 RPGs since there haven't been that many releases recently. It is not until the exclusives hit that we have a much more clear idea on what type of sales to expect from the PS4. So far though, the PS4 is picking the steam nicely and actually selling well compared to other platforms. It will go full throttle in 2016 with all the RPGs set to release on it.
Pennywise83
Banned
#FE would have sold 250k+ if it were on 3DS - the platform had SMTIV beating SMTIII in sales, a widely successful Persona entry, and the second and fourth most-successful entries in the FE franchise.
Bruno MB
Member
Their predictions would put Monster Hunter X at around 2,4 million (Media Create). If we include eShop sales the total should be around 2,7 million with still one big week left. It won't take too long for shipments + digital to reach 3 million.
Maybe a low-budget Persona 5, but compared to what the Persona series has been up until this point, I would say a lot of resources have gone into Genei Ibun Roku #FE's development comparatively.
Even without these two particular points it wouldn't have change the fact that the PS3 version would've outsold the Wii version anyway, sure it didn't help but that's not the point
- As you saw it yourself it's declining
- It's not a legit port from the arcades, more like a spin-off for Vita (with good production values though),, a good chunk of the audience may wait for Explosive Boost on PS4 instead
- It's on Vita, not PS3 there's a slight difference in install base
Another fair comparison would be with this title
PSP Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam VS. Gundam Next Plus 237,652 447,115 Bandai Namco 2009-12-03
But like SRT games we already saw these type of games just does not sell the same amount of copies they did a few years ago, 100-150k FW always was the kind of result this game should have aim for.
Historical data...like, you know...the SNES and NES?
epic
- [3DS] Monster Strike - 810pts
- [3DS] Monster Hunter X - 352pts
- [PS4] Fallout 4 - 286pts
- [PSV] Miracle Girls Festival - 80pts
- [WIU] Super Mario Maker - 61pts
- [WIU] Splatoon - 61pts
- [3DS] Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam MIX - 60pts
- [3DS] Animal Crossing: Happy Home Designer - 57pts
- [3DS] Yokai Watch Busters: White Dog Squad - 57pts
- [3DS] Rhythm Heaven: The Best + - 52pts
- [3DS] Disney Magical Castle 2 - 44pts
- [PSV] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition - 40pts
- [PS3] JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Eyes of Heaven - 40pts
- [3DS] Yokai Watch Busters: Red Cat Team - 39pts
- [3DS] Dragon Ball Heroes: Ultimate Mission 2 - 34pts
- [PS4] JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Eyes of Heaven - 29pts
- [3DS] Sumikko Gurashi: Omise Hajimerundesu - 29pts
- [PSV] Exist Archive: The Other Side of the Sky - 27pts
[*][PS3] Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax - 27pts
[*][PSV] Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax - 23pts
This actually strikes me as Atlus' highest production value game released so far. I get the sense Nintendo funded them well and Atlus took the opportunity to try and really deliver.
I'm sure they're glad that they weren't footing the bill on this one given the result.
If we look back over the years since the SNES era, the games that have primarily sold on Nintendo home consoles have been "Nintendo Games" (as in titles that feel fundamentally like the flagship products of Nintendo's internal studios) and occasionally mass market titles.
We saw some success with absolute top of their class games like Call of Duty or Resident Evil on the system, but they were ultimately outsold by other platform versions.
The biggest RPG success I can think of is Tales of Symphonia, which launched at an opportune time when JRPGs were still doing really well in the market.
That said I don't think there's anything fundamentally stopping an RPG from selling on Nintendo's systems as long as it was designed around the tastes of the audience that actually buys their home consoles, in the same way we had a third person shooter succeed with Splatoon whereas others would likely have done vastly worse.
1st Course
Member
Jojo tanked hard.
Well it is their first released HD RPG after years of handheld development and Catherine... So it's not too surprising. Nintendo doesn't get an Atlus exclusive for their home system without funding it. I see it more as a longterm investment and Nintendo hoping to have a shot at future console titles from Atlus.
SMT V hitting NX and PS4 wouldn't surprise.
Edit:
We know nothing about the NX portable yet you seem so certain that it won't be able to run games developed for current gen consoles/engines. If PS Vita can share it's library with a bunch of Japanese PS4 titles I don't think it's a stretch to think that a portable released 4 years later will be able to handle some downports as well. Games running on Full HD are way more demanding than having to render them in 540p with adjusted the textures and effects.
Let's see what will be shown next year.
Looking at a <100k fw for jojo, even maybe <50k ?
Funny part is seeing the PS3 SKU above the PS4 one, I guess the current PS4 audience is more about enthusiasts who are more knowledgable and won't buy this game after ASB.
Eyes of Heaven took forever to release and is out months after the end of the Stardust Crusaders anime and months before the Diamond is Unbreakable one, there was bomba written on it since the beginning and it looked like Bamco didn't try to prevent it at all.
Funny part is seeing the PS3 SKU above the PS4 one, I guess the current PS4 audience is more about enthusiasts who are more knowledgable and won't buy this game after ASB.
Eyes of Heaven took forever to release and is out months after the end of the Stardust Crusaders anime and months before the Diamond is Unbreakable one, there was bomba written on it since the beginning and it looked like Bamco didn't try to prevent it at all.
Yeah, overall, I think a lot of Nintendo's moves in terms of bringing "doomed" titles all the way to market is that they want to assure both their direct partners and other publishers that they will try and support their products if they're interested in showing up next time.
The PC finagles ports from Japanese publishers pretty easily these days by being easy to develop for and having a good distribution platform. There's a model displayed here for how things can work if Nintendo's willing to try and really step up and get it.
This needs to happen *early* though if they don't want the entire potential audience to write off the platform before things even start.
From what I remember the producers of the game want #FE to become a series, so maybe the idea was to reutilize assets on future entries.
They might not do that anymore, but if they were to the game wouldn't require as much manpower or budget, pretty sure Avex wouldn't return for a possible sequel, unless the game does very well outside Japan.
Keep in mind the game was announced almost 3 years ago, with development supposedly to have started 5 years ago (it's likely that was just basic concept but still) so it's likely a lot of money has been sunked in the game.
They might not do that anymore, but if they were to the game wouldn't require as much manpower or budget, pretty sure Avex wouldn't return for a possible sequel, unless the game does very well outside Japan.
Keep in mind the game was announced almost 3 years ago, with development supposedly to have started 5 years ago (it's likely that was just basic concept but still) so it's likely a lot of money has been sunked in the game.
Yeah the clock will be ticking once the system is announced - the core audience will call them out on their BS real quick if stuff doesn't add up, after the Wii and WiiU experiences in the past.
Unless we see commitment from the big Publishers like Square Enix it will be tough. So far no system has failed in Japan when Nintendo and SE supported it. SNES or DS have shown what is possible. Especially after SEs strong showing this year they seem like the most important partner to secure. I could see Bamco, Atlus and Co. following if SE announces early that they will have 7R,KH3, DQ XI etc .
But without early commitment it will end up being another first party home system. The PS4 unveiling in early 2013 was nice, but when e3 came along and people saw games like KH3 and FFXV actually being shown and announcements - made a significant difference.
I blinked and missed Tales of Graces. There was no one talking about it.
Xenoblade and The Last Story ended up the same, the press just didn't really care, it wasn't the story.
But more than anything, JRPG players are likely to be the ones most easily repulsed by what the Wii stood for. And it showed, it was a genre as a whole that suffered.
People have retroactively determined that it means RPGs can't sell on Nintendo hardware and that Tales of Symphonia doing even remotely well was some sort of fluke.
The major issue is the historical data on sales from the SNES era, the last time RPGs were a major presence on Nintendo console hardware, which is not as readily accessible as it is nowadays. People still squabble over which console sold the most region by region from that generation, so the actual data isn't terribly easy to find, nor reliable. So we end up with the disadvantage that Nintendo home console sales for games or genres didn't see success in a time where information was easy to retrieve, and thus people use the data that is readily available and immediately draw a potentially invalid conclusion.
But the handheld successes tell a story that I don't think anyone can refute: RPGs do well on hardware that flourishes in the market and languish on those that don't, and the developers of them also tend to follow the biggest franchises in that market. If you have one of those things without the other, JRPGs see moderate success. GBA, DS and 3DS achieved both and therefore had an extremely healthy market for JRPGs. N64, Gamecube, Wii and Wii U achieved neither, and as such, developers didn't see success and/or moved away from them.
Seems we're in agreement on the nature of the situation.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Kinda disappointing for #FE, it seems like a great game.
I'm hoping Nintendo renews their partnership with Atlus for such games, but they need to do so early on and not at the end of the hardwares life-cycle.
Are we expecting any legs, or front loaded as per usual?
I'm hoping Nintendo renews their partnership with Atlus for such games, but they need to do so early on and not at the end of the hardwares life-cycle.
Are we expecting any legs, or front loaded as per usual?
I'm fully expecting that to happen to be honest.
I'm expecting the game to be ported to the NX with enancements, something of a Genei Ibunroku #FE ENCORE or something like that, and I'm also execting for that version to be the one to hit west, really doubt they'll bother with the WiiU version at this point.
Could be a nice pick up for the new system, plus they can get to sell the game to the Japanese again.
It's an RPG on WiiU.
There's not much room for guessing.
Doing less than half of what Destiny 2 did one year earlier on PS2 isn't what I would call "doing well", it was a below average result considering the state of the Tales of series back then (which is most likely why the game was rereleased on PS2 1 year later).
But we are talking about japanese sales here, not worlwide, right ?
I don't think that's what happened.
They already announced the game for Wii U in the west as a 2016 release so I'm not sure that happens.Ōkami;190007247 said:
With SMTIV:Final, I wonder if we're going to see SMTV on anything other than the NX. (Maybe #FEs money went into greasing the wheels/making people happy for SMTV. 
)
XCX should be evidence enough to the fact that it is possible for jRPGs to sell as the game is, seemingly by following the internal tracking, performing rather well in the markets outside of Japan (perhaps more to do with the fact that one market is starved for JRPGs while the other is flooded with them and wider variety). While not a smashing result like Splatoon, it should outsell most if not all JRPGs (??) released this year in the West (unless I am forgetting something, but it will lose WW since it wasn't released in extensive asian markets like Type-0HD) and all in all should end up growing from its predecessor (then they can port it again, and sell it a second time). Can someone refresh my memory in what FFType-0 HD did in NPD?
I don't think #FE is going to enjoy the same results in the west, though.
)XCX should be evidence enough to the fact that it is possible for jRPGs to sell as the game is, seemingly by following the internal tracking, performing rather well in the markets outside of Japan (perhaps more to do with the fact that one market is starved for JRPGs while the other is flooded with them and wider variety). While not a smashing result like Splatoon, it should outsell most if not all JRPGs (??) released this year in the West (unless I am forgetting something, but it will lose WW since it wasn't released in extensive asian markets like Type-0HD) and all in all should end up growing from its predecessor (then they can port it again, and sell it a second time). Can someone refresh my memory in what FFType-0 HD did in NPD?
I don't think #FE is going to enjoy the same results in the west, though.
theprodigy
Member
With SMTIV:Final, I wonder if we're going to see SMTV on anything other than the NX. (Maybe #FEs money went into greasing the wheels/making people happy for SMTV.
XCX should be evidence enough to the fact that it is possible for jRPGs to sell as the game is, seemingly by following the internal tracking, performing rather well in the markets outside of Japan (perhaps more to do with the fact that one market is starved for JRPGs while the other is flooded with them and wider variety). While not a smashing result like Splatoon, it should outsell most if not all JRPGs (??) released this year in the West (unless I am forgetting something, but it will lose WW since it wasn't released in extensive asian markets like Type-0HD) and all in all should end up growing from its predecessor (then they can port it again, and sell it a second time). Can someone refresh my memory in what FFType-0 HD did in NPD?
I don't think #FE is going to enjoy the same results in the west, though.
XCX is a game that appeals more to the west though, which is the complete opposite of what #FE is
edit: wait err...I hope it beats Type-0 HD's first month in NPD, but I'm not really expecting it? it would need 200k, not including digital
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
? Production on the project didn't start until the Wii U launch.
Vena, on Type-0 I believe it did 100K if I'm not mistaken.
XCX is a game that appeals more to the west though, which is the complete opposite of what #FE is
I don't know, looks like Persona 3/4 taken to logical extremes. It kinda depends on how they market it out west.
XCX is a game that appeals more to the west though, which is the complete opposite of what #FE is
Right, which is why I said what I said. (Its also why I am not overly surprised by the performance more strongly favoring the West, for XCX.)
For your edit, what was Type-0HD's first NPD?
I doubt either side expected this to be the end of Wii U's life.
Oh. Well then, Volkampf tracking already has easily outpaced it. By like 60k and growing by 5-10k every other day or so.
For reference: Volkampf is the first boss in the game and Tyrant, so it is tracked by the beastiary of the game. It can only be killed once per save and gives us a good estimate of population. (Volkampf in Japan was about 10k shy of the LTD last I recall, so it seems reliable.)
With SMTIV:Final, I wonder if we're going to see SMTV on anything other than the NX. (Maybe #FEs money went into greasing the wheels/making people happy for SMTV.
XCX should be evidence enough to the fact that it is possible for jRPGs to sell as the game is, seemingly by following the internal tracking, performing rather well in the markets outside of Japan (perhaps more to do with the fact that one market is starved for JRPGs while the other is flooded with them and wider variety). While not a smashing result like Splatoon, it should outsell most if not all JRPGs (??) released this year in the West (unless I am forgetting something, but it will lose WW since it wasn't released in extensive asian markets like Type-0HD) and all in all should end up growing from its predecessor (then they can port it again, and sell it a second time). Can someone refresh my memory in what FFType-0 HD did in NPD?
I don't think #FE is going to enjoy the same results in the west, though.
Type 0 launched over 200k in the US. I don't think Xenoblade is going to hit that. Then there's Bloodborne
if it counts as a JRPG.
Yeah, I think it's not going to break 200k, but it'll be close-ish.
It seems to be close based on Volkampf, but no, I don't think it'll actually get over 200k.
Kresnik258
Member
I believe it's lacking online mode as well while the PS3 versions had that? Just a few little things adding up to make it a not-quite-as-compelling package as the Arcade/PS3 games.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Theprodigy mentions 200k, I used to follow NPD much more so I'd be more inclined to believe his number. I know the number was disappointing-ish and SE did release a 1 million press release stating that they were pleased.
Edit: well there it is
Of course, it still doesn't change the fact that the conversation should of started much earlier. I mean, Nintendo knew how many Wii U titles it had in production and yet still, production started after the launch. Hoping NX reverses the trend of Nintendo having a decent lineup when a new product is launchrd.
Yeah, let's compare sales between hardware that has a... what, 400% difference in unit sales, if I'm being generous. I already covered that part when I mentioned that success in the genre is dependent on success of hardware. Symphonia has been called a "relative" success at best, given how poorly Gamecube did in Japan at the time of its release. Worldwide does paint a slightly different picture, but not THAT different.
PreyingShark
Member
"It's an Atlus game with a budget of more than $5.73 for once!"
Easy million
dollars in revenue
theprodigy
Member
lol Halo PR™ is great
I don't think so, how much of the sales of the Persona series are outside Japan? for XCX I could easily see this percentage getting pushed to 80%+
and then, of course, as you said this would be even more "extreme" than regular Persona
edit: huh I just noticed, japanltdranking hasn't been updated lately at all
Ahh okay that number does feel better. It will be close in reaching that but I don't think it will quite make it, unless the game spikes hard on Volkampf kills at Christmas.
As for BB, I was thinking more in comparing more standard jRPGs, like Zestiria/TitS/D5 (SJRPG). I don't even know if DQH counts but it hardly matters with how it performed.
Well either way, point was that a title could sell and we seemingly have evidence of a decent enough performance on hand. Its just a matter of providing the potential market more than one game if you expect to see any growth of the base. (So basically what Nirolak was saying.)
One thing that will work to Nintendo's benefit if the NX is shared library is that it immediately gains a tap on the jRPG audience for its 3DS-lane (first party) JRPGs (or SJRPGs) like Fire Emblem and such.
RIP console Fire Emblems.
Well Symphonia is still the the best selling episode worldwide (and the only one above 1M with Xillia) so I guess it's kinda a different picture.
Quickly checking the hardware sales, PS2 was around ~11.5M by the time Destiny 2 sold 750k copies, vs ~3.4M GC when ToS sold 300k (source:garaph hardware shipment numbers), so that would be 235% more.
I must have missed your point regarding "relative success depending on hardware sales" yes, but I can't see how it's relevant for the publisher, the same way you could call a MH title selling 1M copies on Vita a relative success while still being a failure because it just would have sold so much more on 3DS.