Support NeoGAF

[jbug617]

This article is going around the web today.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/hit-charade/403192/

The biggest pop star in America today is a man named Karl Martin Sandberg. The lead singer of an obscure ’80s glam-metal band, Sandberg grew up in a remote suburb of Stockholm and is now 44. Sandberg is the George Lucas, the LeBron James, the Serena Williams of American pop. He is responsible for more hits than Phil Spector, Michael Jackson, or the Beatles.

After Sandberg come the bald Norwegians, Mikkel Eriksen and Tor Hermansen, 43 and 44; Lukasz Gottwald, 42, a Sandberg protégé and collaborator who spent a decade languishing in Saturday Night Live’s house band; and another Sandberg collaborator named Esther Dean, 33, a former nurse’s aide from Oklahoma who was discovered in the audience of a Gap Band concert, singing along to “Oops Upside Your Head.” They use pseudonyms professionally, but most Americans wouldn’t recognize those, either: Max Martin, Stargate, Dr. Luke, and Ester Dean.

Most Americans will recognize their songs, however. As I write this, at the height of summer, the No. 1 position on the Billboard pop chart is occupied by a Max Martin creation, “Bad Blood” (performed by Taylor Swift featuring Kendrick Lamar). No. 3, “Hey Mama” (David Guetta featuring Nicki Minaj), is an Ester Dean production; No. 5, “Worth It” (Fifth Harmony featuring Kid Ink), was written by Stargate; No. 7, “Can’t Feel My Face” (The Weeknd), is Martin again; No. 16, “The Night Is Still Young” (Minaj), is Dr. Luke and Ester Dean. And so on. If you flip on the radio, odds are that you will hear one of their songs. If you are reading this in an airport, a mall, a doctor’s office, or a hotel lobby, you are likely listening to one of their songs right now. This is not an aberration. The same would have been true at any time in the past decade. Before writing most of Taylor Swift’s newest album, Max Martin wrote No. 1 hits for Britney Spears, ’NSync, Pink, Kelly Clarkson, Maroon 5, and Katy Perry.

Article talks the music these people help made and how the industry works from how they sell the same beat (change it up) to multiple people and how they shop their songs to artists. Some interesting things Baby One More Time was passed over by TLC before Britney got it. Umbrella was passed over by Britney before Rihanna got it.

 

[FloatingDivider]

The people that consume music will never know and will never care. They're there for the pretty faces, enticing dance moves, and good feelings. I'm fairly sure that's how these people like it too. That being said it is kind of sad how insular the pop world is and how hard it is for new talent (be that in songwriting or performing) to break out.

 

[DOWN]

Max Martin is pretty genius. He's got like 21 #1s. He's got many others that did really well too. I've heard of all of those names because I'm a bit of a wikipedia music whore.

Max's #1s:
1999 – "...Baby One More Time" (Britney Spears)
2000 – "It's Gonna Be Me" ('N Sync)
2008 – "I Kissed a Girl" (Katy Perry)
2008 – "So What" (P!nk)
2009 – "My Life Would Suck Without You" (Kelly Clarkson)
2009 – "3" (Britney Spears)
2010 – "California Gurls" (Katy Perry featuring Snoop Dogg)
2010 – "Teenage Dream" (Katy Perry)
2010 – "Raise Your Glass" (P!nk)
2011 – "Hold It Against Me" (Britney Spears)
2011 – "E.T." (Katy Perry featuring Kanye West)
2011 – "Last Friday Night (T.G.I.F.)" (Katy Perry)
2012 – "Part of Me" (Katy Perry)
2012 – "One More Night" (Maroon 5)
2012 – "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" (Taylor Swift)
2013 – "Roar" (Katy Perry)
2014 – "Dark Horse" (Katy Perry featuring Juicy J)
2014 – "Shake it Off" (Taylor Swift)
2014 – "Blank Space" (Taylor Swift)
2015 – "Bad Blood" (Taylor Swift)
2015 – "Can't Feel My Face" (The Weeknd)

 

[jbug617]

Max Martin is pretty genius. He's got like 21 #1s. He's got many others that did really well too. I've heard of all of those names because I'm a bit of a wikipedia music whore.

Max's #1s:
1999 – "...Baby One More Time" (Britney Spears)
2000 – "It's Gonna Be Me" ('N Sync)
2008 – "I Kissed a Girl" (Katy Perry)
2008 – "So What" (P!nk)
2009 – "My Life Would Suck Without You" (Kelly Clarkson)
2009 – "3" (Britney Spears)
2010 – "California Gurls" (Katy Perry featuring Snoop Dogg)
2010 – "Teenage Dream" (Katy Perry)
2010 – "Raise Your Glass" (P!nk)
2011 – "Hold It Against Me" (Britney Spears)
2011 – "E.T." (Katy Perry featuring Kanye West)
2011 – "Last Friday Night (T.G.I.F.)" (Katy Perry)
2012 – "Part of Me" (Katy Perry)
2012 – "One More Night" (Maroon 5)
2012 – "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" (Taylor Swift)
2013 – "Roar" (Katy Perry)
2014 – "Dark Horse" (Katy Perry featuring Juicy J)
2014 – "Shake it Off" (Taylor Swift)
2014 – "Blank Space" (Taylor Swift)
2015 – "Bad Blood" (Taylor Swift)
2015 – "Can't Feel My Face" (The Weeknd)

He put in work with Katy

 

[backflip10019]

Max Martin is pretty genius. He's got like 21 #1s. He's got many others that did really well too. I've heard of all of those names because I'm a bit of a wikipedia music whore.

Max's #1s:
1999 – "...Baby One More Time" (Britney Spears)
2000 – "It's Gonna Be Me" ('N Sync)
2008 – "I Kissed a Girl" (Katy Perry)
2008 – "So What" (P!nk)
2009 – "My Life Would Suck Without You" (Kelly Clarkson)
2009 – "3" (Britney Spears)
2010 – "California Gurls" (Katy Perry featuring Snoop Dogg)
2010 – "Teenage Dream" (Katy Perry)
2010 – "Raise Your Glass" (P!nk)
2011 – "Hold It Against Me" (Britney Spears)
2011 – "E.T." (Katy Perry featuring Kanye West)
2011 – "Last Friday Night (T.G.I.F.)" (Katy Perry)
2012 – "Part of Me" (Katy Perry)
2012 – "One More Night" (Maroon 5)
2012 – "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" (Taylor Swift)
2013 – "Roar" (Katy Perry)
2014 – "Dark Horse" (Katy Perry featuring Juicy J)
2014 – "Shake it Off" (Taylor Swift)
2014 – "Blank Space" (Taylor Swift)
2015 – "Bad Blood" (Taylor Swift)
2015 – "Can't Feel My Face" (The Weeknd)

What the fuck happened between 2001 and 2008?

 

[Machine]

I thought Taylor Swift wrote her own material? This is blowing my mind. LOL.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

The people that consume music will never know and will never care. They're there for the pretty faces, enticing dance moves, and good feelings. I'm fairly sure that's how these people like it too. That being said it is kind of sad how insular the pop world is and how hard it is for new talent (be that in songwriting or performing) to break out.

Yeah, it can be argued that it's always been that way, but I do think the variety and quality of mainstream music is narrower, less interesting than ever before. I miss the '80s and early '90s pop offering since I really liked the mix of new power ballads, Motown R&B, arena rock, electronica, power pop, new wave, latin dance, freestyle, and freestyle-inspired sounds in heavy rotation on the radio. Everything's far too similar now, but at least there's a lot of choice in music outside of the mainstream with the advent of digital over the last couple decades.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

What the fuck happened between 2001 and 2008?

Had some money for the first time? and/or didn't have #1s

 

[lazygecko]

Yeah, it can be argued that it's always been that way, but I do think the variety and quality of mainstream music is narrower, less interesting than ever before. I miss the '80s and early '90s pop offering since I really liked the mix of new power ballads, Motown R&B, arena rock, electronica, power pop, new wave, latin dance, freestyle, and freestyle-inspired sounds in heavy rotation on the radio. Everything's far too similar now, but at least there's a lot of choice in music outside of the mainstream with the advent of digital over the last couple decades.

This is the part where I feign wisdom by dismissing your complaints about the state of modern pop as nostalgia goggles.

 

[RibMan]

The "Super soldier" mainstream artist doesn't actually exist anymore, so realistically this news shouldn't be a surprise -- this has been the case in mainstream music for decades now. Isn't Prince the only mainstream artist of the past 3 decades to have entire albums written, produced, composed, and arranged by himself?

It's really weird how a lot of music fans don't understand how time-constrained major artists are, and as a result, they don't understand that artists have to employ other people to do a lot of their creative work for them. Their artistry isn't in their ability to craft their own work, rather, it's in their ability to take what someone else has created and synthesize it with their talent (e.g. Dancing, singing, rapping, etc.). I'm not actually against this -- it's one thing to write a song, it's a whole other thing to perform it. It's the same way in the movie business. Most writers don't get to direct their movies, because the time and talent required to do both really really well is absolutely insane.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

This is the part where I feign wisdom by dismissing your complaints about the state of modern pop as nostalgia goggles.

What you say?!

*turns up volume while listening to Exposé playlist*

 

[Oozer3993]

I thought Taylor Swift wrote her own material? This is blowing my mind. LOL.

She does. Max Martin is purely a producer with her. He's credited as a writer just because he has a big enough reputation he can ask for that (and the additional money it brings). And "written by" is a very fluid credit in the music industry.

 

[DOWN]

I thought Taylor Swift wrote her own material? This is blowing my mind. LOL.

She does, but like most artists and performers, she doesn't generally work alone. It can always be better or inspired by other people's ideas on board. She writes a bunch, but also gets some songs brought to her and makes them her own with the people she trusts.

 

[Azih]

She does. Max Martin is purely a producer with her. He's credited as a writer just because he has a big enough reputation he can ask for that (and the additional money it brings). And "written by" is a very fluid credit in the music industry.

I heard there's no 'editing' credit in music lyrics so anyone who suggests any successful change is a 'writer'.

 

[And_Gignac]

Max Martin is a pop music God. He needs to be studied tbh.

 

[Dice]

In kpop the big writers/producers become famous brands themselves.

 

[lazygecko]

She does. Max Martin is purely a producer with her. He's credited as a writer just because he has a big enough reputation he can ask for that (and the additional money it brings). And "written by" is a very fluid credit in the music industry.

Since royalties are derived from the credits this is why you see a ton of people being squeezed in there regardless of relevance to the title in question.

 

[Wilsongt]

It's the same with Sia. She is known for writing a ton of songs and shopping them around.

 

[Servbot24]

The people that consume music will never know and will never care. They're there for the pretty faces, enticing dance moves, and good feelings. I'm fairly sure that's how these people like it too. That being said it is kind of sad how insular the pop world is and how hard it is for new talent (be that in songwriting or performing) to break out.

I know and I don't care.

When I listen to music, I listen to music. I don't listen to writers. I don't listen to context. I don't listen to celebrities, sales figures, or charts. I listen to music. Sound.

And pop music is (oftentimes) comprised of great sound. Most people are too blinded by irrelevant contextual material to actually listen.

 

[see5harp]

I know and I don't care.

When I listen to music, I listen to music. I don't listen to writers. I don't listen to context. I don't listen to celebrities, sales figures, or charts. I listen to music. Sound.

And pop music is (oftentimes) comprised of great sound. Most people are too blinded by irrelevant contextual material to actually listen.

You can simultaneously like a song or artist and acknowledge the fact that someone is manufactured. Britney Spears is the perfect example for me. She'd be nothing but a serviceable dancer without writers and producers handing her the material but nothing Jessica Simpson or Christina Aguilera will ever come close to the best Britney songs. The divide between genres is what really boggles my mind (the taboo of ghost writers in rap, and the lack of musicality in rock music).

 

[JABEE]

She does. Max Martin is purely a producer with her. He's credited as a writer just because he has a big enough reputation he can ask for that (and the additional money it brings). And "written by" is a very fluid credit in the music industry.

Are you sure? Taylor Swift started making infectious dance music the moment the song doctors came around. I would guess they write her songs, or at least most of her recent hits.

 

[eot]

What the fuck happened between 2001 and 2008?

I think he had a break for a while in the early/mid 2000's, not for that long though. The thing is that if you look at his entire discography there are a ton of recognisable songs that weren't #1 on the charts (like "Everybody" and "I Want It That Way" for BSB). Not having a #1 song every year isn't strange (he was writing abnormally many hits anyway), the strange thing is how he's had so many lately.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

What the fuck happened between 2001 and 2008?

Linkin Park, Fall Out Boy, Green Day, Taking Back Sunday, The Used all dropped their best albums during this time. The pop-rock era, basically.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Hence why I have very little respect for pop stars. They're little more than conduits with minimal talent.

Outside of Xtina they can all get gone.

 

[teruterubozu]

And I thought The Weeknd was some hot new shit.

 

[loki 16]

Linkin Park.

The greatest band ever!

 

[see5harp]

Ha Christina is the worst. Without producers and writers her ass would be gone in week 4 of American Idol. A Carly Rae Jepsen album without writers and producers would be some shit no one would even want to hear.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I thought Taylor Swift wrote her own material? This is blowing my mind. LOL.

I'm sure she does more than most pop stars, but it's probably still mostly done with other "professional" writers, even when the credits don't show it. You can sell your song writing credits. Happens a lot with pop rock bands who don't want the world to know they don't write all their own stuff.

 

[Dr.Acula]

This is what people mean when they say top-40 all sounds the same.

 

[see5harp]

The greatest band ever!

Nope. You're thinking of Hoobastank.

 

[Sobriquet]

the lack of musicality in rock music

What do you mean?

Ha Christina is the worst. Without producers and writers her ass would be gone in week 4 of American Idol. A Carly Rae Jepsen album without writers and producers would be some shit no one would even want to hear.

I think you just set fire to the hive

 

[NumberTwo]

Somewhat relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbHvnIzEkOQ

 

[Floridian]

Linkin Park, Fall Out Boy, Green Day, Taking Back Sunday, The Used all dropped their best albums during this time. The pop-rock era, basically.

The time between 2001 & 2007 was also when R&B/Hip Hop was more popular than pop music. The Hot 100 used to be a lot more urban oriented than it currently is.

 

[Peru]

Such a poorly written, misguided articly by a writer who really is more ignorant than most pop fans.

The people that consume music will never know and will never care. They're there for the pretty faces, enticing dance moves, and good feelings. I'm fairly sure that's how these people like it too. That being said it is kind of sad how insular the pop world is and how hard it is for new talent (be that in songwriting or performing) to break out.

Wrong in every way. This article is so shitty because it pretends to reveal these dark, mysterious secrets when in fact pop fans are tuned into this in every way - they know the producers, they know the writers the groups or singers are working with, they have their own discussions about the qualities of producers, the alignements and loyalties of artists in relation to producers. This is part of the attraction, part of the package, and to act like it's some unknown thing is baffling.

 

[FloatingDivider]

She does. Max Martin is purely a producer with her. He's credited as a writer just because he has a big enough reputation he can ask for that (and the additional money it brings). And "written by" is a very fluid credit in the music industry.

That's what she wants you to believe because it is part of her image. Songwriting credits are not accidental mishaps and while Taylor may be responsible for the themes, and emotional content I'd wager Max Martin et al. will take the framework she gives them and tinker incessantly to make the catchiest ear worm they could possibly make.

I know and I don't care.

When I listen to music, I listen to music. I don't listen to writers. I don't listen to context. I don't listen to celebrities, sales figures, or charts. I listen to music. Sound.

And pop music is (oftentimes) comprised of great sound. Most people are too blinded by irrelevant contextual material to actually listen.

That's what I was saying, I doubt you knew exactly who produced someone's latest smash hit because you don't care enough. The only qualifier you have is whether or not a song makes you feel something, which is perfectly fine and it's probably the way most people consume music.

Such a poorly written, misguided articly by a writer who really is more ignorant than most pop fans.



Wrong in every way. This article is so shitty because it pretends to reveal these dark, mysterious secrets when in fact pop fans are tuned into this in every way - they know the producers, they know the writers the groups or singers are working with, they have their own discussions about the qualities of producers, the alignements and loyalties of artists in relation to producers. This is part of the attraction, part of the package, and to act like it's some unknown thing is baffling.

I probably worded it wrong, some people will be very knowledgeable on who artists chose to work with, but I'll guarantee you it's not going to be the majority of people. Most people aren't going to go that deep, most people will in fact never look at the liner notes or writing credits on albums they purchase. Most people will purchase a single on itunes because they heard it somewhere and it's stuck in their head. I'll agree that there are fans dedicated enough to know who produced Justin Biebers latest hit but most pre-teen girls aren't going to give two shits. That being said I do think the article plays up to it far too much, it's not the most gobsmacking secret ever heard and it's more a tidbit of trivia for most people.

 

[Fjordson]

I know and I don't care.

When I listen to music, I listen to music. I don't listen to writers. I don't listen to context. I don't listen to celebrities, sales figures, or charts. I listen to music. Sound.

And pop music is (oftentimes) comprised of great sound. Most people are too blinded by irrelevant contextual material to actually listen.

Preach. I find this stuff fascinating, but it doesn't color my opinion of the music at all.(and I'm not suggesting that was the OP's intention either, it's just a cool article).

 

[eot]

Somewhat relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbHvnIzEkOQ

That's pretty great

 

[megalowho]

I used to work at a music studio where the owner/creative director styled himself after Max Martin. Would push vocal students to become "proteges" and packaged them for Radio Disney and similar outlets. Write their songs, pick their wardrobe, create their story, the full artist development treatment. It was pretty fascinating, if a bit slimy, even at a smaller scale. These kind of people wield a lot of influence in shaping young artists, and I imagine there's one if not a full team behind every new pop singer that gets a decent mainstream push.

 

[see5harp]

What do you mean?

I'm just using that as an example. Like a lot of metal fans may hear a Spoon song and think this is some simple ass shit with no solo. Or someone may just respect Led Zep more than The Beatles because a lot of the music was in house musicians and not actually performed by the band.

 

[bananafactory]

I'm really oblivious to pop music I guess, do the artists not write their own songs or music?

Is that the only genre that operates this way? Not a criticism, just curious. I always pictured albums created as a band sitting down, writing music and lyrics then recording and releasing it. Didn't know there were guys like this behind the scenes other than the producers or audio/tech folk

 

[Puppet Shadow]

This hasn't changed since the days of Elvis.

If you're a good songwriter, you accept that if you want to make a lot of money off one of your songs, you're better off having a popular artist record it. Sure, you have to put their name on the writing credits which cuts into your percentage, but because you'll be selling way more copies it's worth it.

BTW, professional song writers don't go to artists like Taylor Swift with an idea for a song that maybe the two of them can hash out, they shop around a complete song.

I'm really oblivious to pop music I guess, do the artists not write their own songs or music?

My silly rule of thumb: The more backup dancers in their videos, the less they contributed to that song's creation.

 

[Fjordson]

I'm really oblivious to pop music I guess, do the artists not write their own songs or music?

Is that the only genre that operates this way? Not a criticism, just curious. I always pictured albums created as a band sitting down, writing music and lyrics then recording and releasing it. Didn't know there were guys like this behind the scenes other than the producers or audio/tech folk

Definitely isn't exclusive to pop. The scenario you described obviously exists for some bands / artists, but it's just one creation method out of many.

And a writing credit doesn't always mean someone is actually coming up with lyrics or whatever. Like most producers in hip-hop get songwriting credits, usually because of the beat.

 

[stuminus3]

I thought Taylor Swift wrote her own material? This is blowing my mind. LOL.

There is absolutely no way Taylor Swift is what she says she is because artists who are what Taylor Swift appear to be are not where Taylor Swift are. It's not how the game is played.

But I'm secretly a bit of fan of a lot of what Stock Aitken Waterman did back in the day and of course everybody loves Motown so it's all good. A tune's a tune.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I'm really oblivious to pop music I guess, do the artists not write their own songs or music?

Is that the only genre that operates this way? Not a criticism, just curious. I always pictured albums created as a band sitting down, writing music and lyrics then recording and releasing it. Didn't know there were guys like this behind the scenes other than the producers or audio/tech folk

Definitely not exclusive, but it is the most wide-spread and accepted, I'd say. And it branches out from straight up pop music to include most of what you hear on modern country radio and into pop rock bands (your Shinedowns and 3 Doors Downs). It's kind of kept more of a secret in the rock world, though, 'cause it's more looked down on. It certainly goes beyond those acts even and into bands most would consider absolute rock gods, like Aerosmith.

And we'll never know all of the people who use writers, 'cause like I said above, the record companies can and will buy your songwriting credits so you have no claim to royalties whatsoever. A famous example I've brought up before is Ozzy's Bark at the Moon album. It is entirely credited to Ozzy, 100%. Which is an absolute fucking joke.

 

[Arc]

Max Martin is worth $250 million. Holy crap.

 

[Milchjon]

Max Martin is worth $250 million. Holy crap.

I'd say "only". Dude has been dominating global pop for almost 20 years.

Max Martin is my true hero.

 

[Daria]

And I thought The Weeknd was some hot new shit.

he ain't new, brah

 

[DJChuy]

Linkin Park, Fall Out Boy, Green Day, Taking Back Sunday, The Used all dropped their best albums during this time. The pop-rock era, basically.

Don't forget Usher dominating the charts with Confessions.

But yeah, many bands had their biggest hit during this time and spawned a new wave of bands.

 

[Rest]

What the fuck happened between 2001 and 2008?

Pop imploded.

 

[Weetrick]

Max's #1s:

2015 – "Can't Feel My Face" (The Weeknd)

Wow, I thought the Weeknd wrote his own stuff. I feel so ignorant.