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[AndyMoogle]

Lootboxes for the most part have replaced season passes, yes I am aware that COD does not give a fuck. So the folks who pay for lootboxes are subsidizing the cost of creating additional content. Gamers have become more vocal over the last few weeks because developers are skirting the p2w line. My argument is that an individual sounds like a hypocrite if he is okay with others subsidizing the cost of additional content but take issue with it when these individuals receive a material benefit for their money.

I see your point. I see it more as silly to complain about loot boxes breaking a game. If that's the case, then just don't buy the game. There are lots of other games to choose from. Pick any one of them. Problem solved.

We should make a list of people who say it doesn't affect them now and see what happens when the real push starts, i cant believe how naive gaf is do really expect that its gonna stop here do you really not expect that its gonna get worse?

AAA gaming has been mostly shit for the last 10 years. I don't see how anyone can be surprised. It began with horse armor, and now we're back at this again. This is what it takes to get these pretty games.

 

[Spartancarver]

Loot boxes to me says some whale with more money than sense / skill is funding my free DLC for me. Saves me from having to buy a season pass that costs almost as much as the base game.

Battlefront 2, for example, had such an improvement with the gunplay and the vehicles and the player movement vs SWBF1 that I am 100% keeping my preorder and playing it from Day 1. And now I don't have to deal with a season pass. I can deal with the loot crates because I enjoyed the base gameplay enough to where it's not a deterrent for me. And I performed well enough in the beta to where I'm not worried if someone happens to have a star card which gives them a mild stat boost over me.

 

[dragonelite]

Cosmetic loot boxes or 2x exp bonus to finance free DLC I have nothing against at. It's when you get gameplay advantage that can't be reached by playing it becomes annoying.

 

[Kill3r7]

I see your point. I see it more as silly to complain about loot boxes breaking a game. If that's the case, then just don't buy the game. There are lots of other games to choose from. Pick any one of them. Problem solved.



AAA gaming has been mostly shit for the last 10 years. I don't see how anyone can be surprised. It began with horse armor, and now we're back at this again. This is what it takes to get these pretty games.

Agreed.

 

[Kintaro]

Loot boxes to me says some whale with more money than sense / skill is funding my free DLC for me. Saves me from having to buy a season pass that costs almost as much as the base game.

Battlefront 2, for example, had such an improvement with the gunplay and the vehicles and the player movement vs SWBF1 that I am 100% keeping my preorder and playing it from Day 1. And now I don't have to deal with a season pass. I can deal with the loot crates because I enjoyed the base gameplay enough to where it's not a deterrent for me. And I performed well enough in the beta to where I'm not worried if someone happens to have a star card which gives them a mild stat boost over me.

I can agree with this sentiment for the most part. However, are we really getting more going the free dlc route versus the season pass route? Not just in Star Wars but in other games that ditched season passes for "free" dlc.

 

[Nikana]

Legit question. I see a lot of people saying overwatch has done it "right" but I don't see how that's the case when the amount of free content they have given is very low. Especially considering how a lot of that content has been subpar.

As well as only having certain content available for certain times. That doesn't seem.right at all.

Wouldn't gears 4 be the best example? The amount of content that game has put out post release is freaking nuts. And it's all been free.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

This is most evident in Forza. The gameplay systems are so intertwined with one another that not participating in the loot boxes put you at a severe disadvantage. The game boasts 700 cars, 100+ of which may be tied specifically to boxes. There's a collection page, which shows you what you do and do not have, and how to acquire the cars you need. These cars now have point values that tie directly into progress. The cars that add the most points to to your collection rank are obviously the most expensive. You can't just crank up the difficulty and turn off assists to make the money you need anymore. The fastest way to accumulate Cr is through mods. Mods being only being obtainable through loot boxes. Loot boxes that cost in-game currency now, but will cost Tokens (premium currency) in the future. Again, building up a dependency early on, then pulling the rug out afterward.

As time goes on, traditional gameplay mechanics are being subverted in favor of monetizing as much as possible and we're being taught to accept it.

Good explanation of how Forza has been designed to train players into engaging with these systems.

Microsoft themselves aren't even trying to hide it - the headline for Forza 7 on the digital store is "Collect over 700 Forzavista cars."

As the GameCentral piece mentions parts of games - which are now being designed as a business science as well - are being made for maximum monetisation rather than maximum enjoyment, as the goal shifts from selling units to in-game revenue and engagement. The problem is, players often take the view that if people are spending money in a game, or buying random items with in-game credits, they must be enjoying it... so even if the game is optimised for revenue people will still be enjoying those elements at the same time...

 

[Spartancarver]

I can agree with this sentiment for the most part. However, are we really getting more going the free dlc route versus the season pass route? Not just in Star Wars but in other games that ditched season passes for "free" dlc.

I guess that remains to be seen on a per developer basis how fast and what quality their post game support is. I still find it preferable to splitting the games community with a season pass.

Plus, in SWBF1 at least, there were extremely powerful heroes and weapons locked behind DLC. That's more p2w than SWBF2 loot crates IMO

 

[prag16]

Yes, I think it's better if people accept upfront that strategies for price discrimination are happening with every game across the industry and that a serious argument against it in one particular case needs to make a clear case for why the details of that approach are worse than comparable options. There's a lot of people who are really mad about lootboxes who aren't thinking clearly about how they're replacing a system where it cost you $120/yr to play a new, popular competitive shooter due to forced map packs and such.



Post-launch monetized content (DLC, microtransactions, etc.) has gotten better (in the sense of more consumer-friendly) across every segment of the industry since they really started showing up in the late aughts, largely because it's a cutthroat marketplace and if your model is obviously bad people will happily switch to other, more generous games. You can even see this on individual titles -- most games get more generous as they become more successful, not less.

Great post. Solid voice of reason here amidst the hysteria in the thread.

As I've said before, in the case of Battlefront 2, if some whale wants to waste money on loot crates but that funds my "season pass" for me, then how can I really complain too much. Even if that whale ends up with a few items which give him somewhat of an edge in battle.

I think some of us just want something for nothing. At every turn. With no consequences. (Trying to avoid saying the word "entitled", but now I failed.)

 

[M-PG71C]

Yeah, I been out of the loop. I've heard of loot(sp?) boxes but I have not messed with them. I'm good, I like keeping my money lol

 

[tr00per]

Even if every enthusiast that actually pays attention to sites like this stopped buying loot boxes from then on, it still wouldn't be enough. The model works and generates massive revenue across the entire industry. (As demonstrated by the recent thread on the effect it has had on the industry's worth)

Right or wrong, this isn't a fight that can be won with morality or sermons. The only way I see out of this is devising and supporting other revenue stream ideas that can actually compete with the level of revenue generated by loot boxes, if such a thing even exists.

Spreading the word to the everyman gamer will definitely help

 

[Toadthemushroom]

I wonder if this sort of thing will find its way into more "B" games.

Sega already experimented with it in the latest Hatsune Miku rhythm game (Project Diva X, not the arcade port).

In that game cosmetics (called modules) were no longer bought from a store with in-game credits earned from clearing songs. Instead, you received a random module whenever you cleared a song. The module you got depended on the type of song you played, and of course you could receive doubles.

Rather than sell boxes to open, Sega simply sold "Unlock all Module" keys. Now, it may well take the same amount of time and/or song replaying to earn enough credits to buy everything, but I doubt that would drive most of the key unlock DLC purchases. There's going to be some desired cosmetic that people want, but cannot get easily, which will drive impatience and thus drive the purchase.

What was disappointing was I didn't see anyone complain about this on forums, or even in reviews or impressions. A few pieces written about the game claimed that the new system was more exciting, another mentioned that the new system is a better incentive for people to replay songs...

Let's hope Sega doesn't do similar with other Sega Games IP.