A new age of not owning games, temporary availability and lag.
You need to try harder. 4.7/10
Just the lack of Microsoft's name with a dollar sign pulls you down 2.0 points.
A new age of not owning games, temporary availability and lag.
Of course, dead end wasn't the appropiate word, it's research after all, but even if game streaming becomes big in the future, how much latency could this technology help mitigate? keep in mind that VR requires absolut minimum latency and high bandwith because of the high resolution and refresh rate, current infrastructure doesn't allow it, how many years will it take to pass this limitation? By the time it does, hardware won't be a limitation.
But you're right it's just research, with streaming evolving fast someone's gotta do it.
Sony uses shortcuts and hacks to bypass hardware limitations
GAF: Brilliant! They truly are geniuses!
MS uses shortcuts and hacks to bypass hardware limitations
GAF: LOL this will never work.
I don't know about Valve but everyone else is using 2d image warp to correct for latency. Short of chasing Vblank it's the only way to get sub 20ms with current headset refresh rates.jediyoshi said:Interesting they'd go this route while Oculus and Valve backed away from time warp.
These IBR methods are ~3 decades old, and in 90s MS has done more research into them than many.bj00rn_ said:I wonder how Carmack feels about Sony and MS using 2D warp in the ways they do.
The stupidity of this is baffling, they pick a thing like VR where the one thing that hasn't to be there is latency and power it with a technology that has latency as the major drawback.
I swear yall are the most negative people in the world...
Lag is an issue irrespective of hardware unless you think we can do faster than light speed communication in the near future (under 100 years) . This is definitely a concern and viable research .
Exactly. Streaming would NEVER "catch up" to local processing, because both technologies benefit from the same improvements. The faster you can process in a server, the faster you can process locally. It is literally impossible for a computer server to magically do a job many timers faster than a desktop, when they are purchased in the same year.That's not what I said, I meant that by the time connections latency become as short as local computing, there won't be need for cloud processing, hardware will be powerful and cheaper than this method to power VR devices because it's going to take decades, rendering methods like foveated rendering will also reduce the horsepower required. At the present time it's a concern but not viable, in the future it won't be a concern.
Maybe it can work for local streaming but it would still induce more latency at 1440p 90hz
Suppose that they were able to figure out a way to make VR work with no local hardware aside from the goggles and be able to guarantee good experiences for the end user with little to no tweaking or tinkering on their part. Such a product would sell many millions and would be embraced by the general public much like the Wii was.I honestly think that making so many sacrifices for mobility isn't justified. I mean, to properly use mobility in VR games the player actually needs to have the space to walk around in. Sure, some of it can be faked as has been discussed in previous threads, but even then you still need a certain minimum amount of open, empty space and mechanics like jumping or hand-to-hand combat or many forms of environment interaction will be either too strenuous or too dangerous (considering you may be jumping into your living room wall, knock over your TV or slip/fall and land on your VR headset,...). I think the best way to combine VR with traditional gameplay is to simply sit or stand in place and control character movement using the controller the way it's done in non-VR games (you can still mix that with actual gesture control for certain actions, like crouching down to make your character crouch or actually aiming your controller into a specific direction to make your character aim their gun in that direction, etc. but controlling actual movement through the game worlds with real-life walking is probably going to be difficult to combine with traditional gameplay).
That being said, this is merely research, not a consumer product, and researching possible solutions to problems isn't a bad thing IMO. Worst case scenario, you figure out what doesn't work.
I don't know about Valve but everyone else is using 2d image warp to correct for latency. Short of chasing Vblank it's the only way to get sub 20ms with current headset refresh rates.
These IBR methods are ~3 decades old, and in 90s MS has done more research into them than many.
At least this thread is at least a bit better than the previous thread. Which was an embarrassment.
The stupidity of this is baffling, they pick a thing like VR where the one thing that hasn't to be there is latency and power it with a technology that has latency as the major drawback.
Did you even watch the video?
Are you aware that in order to predict what the player want to do, it would mean the server would need to do at least more than twice as much processing as it would need to if it was local?
^^ @low-g Didn't see the tech demo. I'm not saying the technology is viable on a mass scale, especially not currently, but as someone who doesn't care what Microsoft spends their money on; if they think this can work they should go for it.
Exactly my thinking, too. Microsoft's example used total latency of 120ms, which is well above what all but the best internet connections (at least in my part of the world) could reliably provide. But, that's actually pretty achievable on a home network. Could be interesting.While latency for cloud based rendering is a major problem, the concept could be applied to local rendering and make wireless VR glasses possible...
So this won't work until everyone has amazing internet speed? I don't understand this kind of thinking, people with dial up likely won't even be interested in this.This tech is limited more by internet infrastructure than anything. We still have people in the US with dial up.
For those that don't want to, or can't watch the video.
Without the technology.
With the technology.
Exactly my thinking, too. Microsoft's example used total latency of 120ms, which is well above what all but the best internet connections (at least in my part of the world) could reliably provide. But, that's actually pretty achievable on a home network. Could be interesting.
^^ didn't understand the technology.
It's not viable, period. Thier casting of the scenario is misleading, but only to confuse the technologically soft-headed.
As another poster mention, this would work for one of those roller coaster simulations, as long as your head is strapped down tight, because the second you take a quick peek any direction it is literally impossible for a server to predict that, and boom immersion is lost. Done.
Also casting false dilemmas. Thermal radiation near the eyes? Really?
How not owning a game and lag is related to this cloud technology?
Because they will kill the servers if the game doesn't do well.
Because they will kill the servers if the game doesn't do well.
For what they show this is not exclusive to a game, so it can be aplicable to a lot of games, and even is the "kill" the server, even MS that I think that they have never do that, you can still use the game, because this is to enchanced your experience not to replace it, without internet you would just play like the VR headset was design.
Who's that "GAF" guy you are talking about?Sony uses shortcuts and hacks to bypass hardware limitations
GAF: Brilliant! They truly are geniuses!
MS uses shortcuts and hacks to bypass hardware limitations
GAF: LOL this will never work.
Who's that "GAF" guy you are talking about?
I remember prediction in quake to overcome internet latency on mouse & kb inputs. Felt smoother but totally affected gameplay, because it got it wrong more than right. I usually turned it off and lag-aimed.
Who's that "GAF" guy you are talking about?
^^ didn't understand the technology.
It's not viable, period. Thier casting of the scenario is misleading, but only to confuse the technologically soft-headed.
As another poster mention, this would work for one of those roller coaster simulations, as long as your head is strapped down tight, because the second you take a quick peek any direction it is literally impossible for a server to predict that, and boom immersion is lost. Done.
Also casting false dilemmas. Thermal radiation near the eyes? Really?