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Microsoft respond to the EDGE article

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I really don't think this would be as big of a deal without the $100 price difference. Forget the bundled Kinect and if that is worth it. The fact is if you want a XBox its 499 and if you want a PS4 its 399 and that is the lowest price point for both. It is hard to swallow any deficiency and pay a premium price. The only reason I see why people do this is brand loyalty and already being incorporated into the ecosystem (like Apple products). Once you go so far with a company you feel like you are throwing away your old investments if you switch. I totally get that. I have W8 Nokia phone and a Surface tablet but I have had a PS since PS1. I think this news will really only affect those they have no prior stake in a company and most of those people will probably never read an Edge article or care about specs.
 

The Flash

Banned
I really don't think this would be as big of a deal without the $100 price difference. Forget the bundled connect and if that is worth it. The fact is if you want a XBox its 499 and if you want a PS4 its 399 and that is the lowest price point for both. It is hard to swallow any deficiency and pay a premium price. The only reason I see why people do this is brand loyalty and already being incorporated into the ecosystem (like Apple products). Once you go so far with a company you feel like you are throwing away your old investments if you switch. I totally get that. I have W8 Nokia phone and a Surface tablet but I have had a PS since PS1. I think this news will really only affect those they have no prior stake in a company and most of those people will probably never read an Edge article or care about specs.

That's one of the biggest reason's I'm sticking with Xbox. I never got around to getting a PS3 so all of my games have been on the 360. I don't have a Windows Phone but I would like to get one eventually and I also have Win8 and a Surface RT. I'm just a Microsoft guy through and through and there's nothing wrong with that.
 

Dragon

Banned
I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Some people are going to be extremely disappointed when the Xbox ends up not being as weak as they want it to be.

Based on the games shown so far, the Xbox One has very little to worry about. Forza 5 looks incredible, Ryse looks incredible, Killer Instinct looks incredible. Dead Rising 3 is pretty much a carry over from a last gen game, and even that looks pretty impressive and is doing a lot of nice things technically. Quantum Break clearly looks like it's going to be a stunner also. Well, you get the idea. :)

I'd actually be more disappointed if there was an Xbone thread where we didn't get the "it'll look fine" defense from you.
 
That's one of the biggest reason's I'm sticking with Xbox. I never got around to getting a PS3 so all of my games have been on the 360. I don't have a Windows Phone but I would like to get one eventually and I also have Win8 and a Surface RT. I'm just a Microsoft guy through and through and there's nothing wrong with that.

I get it. My brother has always had XBox and I always had PS. Now that we don't live together it sucks because we can't play online together but my hands mold to a DS. XBox controller just feels weird. Not bad but weird. The Lumia phones are great just wish it had more mainstream support with apps but the photo quality is insane especially in dark places. Enjoy your XBox!
 
PC gamers don't beg. They make.

raven-exactly.gif


I'm having Reiko flashbacks.

Poor Reiko. :'(

*Sheds single tear*
 

Lynn616

Member
The carry over of a active live sub will help a bit with the price difference for me. So an X1 will cost me $499 and a PS4 will cost me $449 plus I would still want the camera. Might be the same for some Live subscribers.
 

jhendrix

Banned
Thank god I'm getting both so I don't have to spend any thought process on trying to defend one over the other. Yes the PS4 is a faster console but this is not a PS2 VS Xbox situation. Both consoles will allow the same type of graphics effects to be used one will simply run at a smoother framerate and or have slightly higher res textures.

When the original Xbox came out and was a near generational leap over the PS2 the PS2 still sold in enormous numbers and people still really enjoyed that console. So in the end is it about the games we have seen this time and time again in previous generations. Technical talk is interesting and all but I think we have gone well past that now with all the latest threads in the past couple of days. Seems more like contest of ego and pride then anything meaningful in actual games.

People expecting this type of difference below between them are going to be seriously disappointed. The difference will be more similar to Xbox VS gamecube than PS2 VS Xbox

This is not going to happen this gen between the PS4 and Xbox One sorry to disappoint you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkHoDEh0FWc
 
Some people are going to be extremely disappointed when the Xbox ends up not being as weak as they want it to be.

That's still not good enough if it still loses every and all face-offs (which it will). Plus the "wait until devs get to grips - widen the gap" + "wait until naughty dog" things too.
 

Not a Jellyfish

but I am a sheep
All this talk of "near-final" hardware is bs if you ask me, just trying to still keep the attention of power and graphics whores with the promise of improvement.

I do agree with them that to the consumer at the end of the day it is about games but devs are another story.
 
I'd actually be more disappointed if there was an Xbone thread where we didn't get the "it'll look fine" defense from you.

You need to do a better job than that. The Xbox One already has incredible looking games, and it will continue to have incredible looking games. .

That's still not good enough if it still loses every and all face-offs (which it will). Plus the "wait until devs get to grips - widen the gap" + "wait until naughty dog" things too.

Not good enough for who? Console Warriors? As long as multi-platforms look and perform great on the Xbox One, which they more than likely will, the rest is pretty much irrelevant. This doesn't even account for any of the system's first party content. Most people will really not care or be in anyway envious of how a game looks on another platform, as long as their version of the game is rock solid and not fucked up in some fashion. This fear of being inferior mindset that people are referring to is heavily overstated. Most people really couldn't care about a "face-off." Look at the number of people, even here on GAF, who still purchased and looked forward to the PS3 versions of countless multi-plats, even in spite of everything they knew about how some of them tend to turn out? People say wait till devs get to grips with the hardware, wait for naughty dog to do this, but then people say this almost as if it isn't also true for the Xbox One. Devs will get better on the Xbox One also, and after seeing what 343 did on the aging Xbox 360, I can't wait to see what they do on the Xbox One. What might Epic do? What will Remedy do with Quantum Break? How much better will Turn 10 make the future Forza games? If there's one thing they've proven is that they have an insane work rate, and make pretty significant strides over the course of a generation.

Look what Rare is doing on Kinect Sports Rival's wave race game... Those graphics are insane. Rare may not turn the games out like they use to, but they haven't lost their technical talent, and I doubt Microsoft doesn't allow them to pursue more hardcore specific titles. I'll read the face offs just like anybody else, but I won't lose my mind over them. All I'll check for is to see which Xbox One multi-plats I should maybe avoid, and instead just buy for my PS4. Well, that's not the only reason. I also love reading them.
 

synce

Member
I can't wait to see the sales numbers next-gen. It would really be something if MS won over all those gamers from Sony this gen only to immediately lose them.
 

beast786

Member
You need to do a better job than that. The Xbox One already has incredible looking games, and it will continue to have incredible looking games. .

it will just like vita will , just like wii u will. But just not as incredible looking as more powerful performance ps4.

You know I like having fun with you bro ;p
 

Dragon

Banned
You need to do a better job than that. The Xbox One already has incredible looking games, and it will continue to have incredible looking games. .

I will? We're in a thread about Microsoft responding to a comparison between the two systems and your defense is Xbone will get good looking games. Way to go out on a limb!
 
That's one of the biggest reason's I'm sticking with Xbox. I never got around to getting a PS3 so all of my games have been on the 360. I don't have a Windows Phone but I would like to get one eventually and I also have Win8 and a Surface RT. I'm just a Microsoft guy through and through and there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm pretty much the opposite. I owned a different set of consoles each gen due to a variety of factors like price and library. The biggest gaming library I have is on the ps2 but it made no sense to stick to Sony again and pay a premium price when the 360 played most of the same games, looked better and cheaper. I never understood brand loyalty.

You need to do a better job than that. The Xbox One already has incredible looking games, and it will continue to have incredible looking games. .

No one said it won't. The Wii had incredible looking games this gen. That has nothing to do with EDGE's article
 

Thrakier

Member
I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Some people are going to be extremely disappointed when the Xbox ends up not being as weak as they want it to be.

Based on the games shown so far, the Xbox One has very little to worry about. Forza 5 looks incredible, Ryse looks incredible, Killer Instinct looks incredible. Dead Rising 3 is pretty much a carry over from a last gen game, and even that looks pretty impressive and is doing a lot of nice things technically. Quantum Break clearly looks like it's going to be a stunner also. Well, you get the idea. :)

Yeah, I got the idea.
 
That's still not good enough if it still loses every and all face-offs (which it will). Plus the "wait until devs get to grips - widen the gap" + "wait until naughty dog" things too.

I will? We're in a thread about Microsoft responding to a comparison between the two systems and your defense is Xbone will get good looking games. Way to go out on a limb!

Well, danger isn't my middle name for nothing.

I'm pretty much the opposite. I owned a different set of consoles each gen due to a variety of factors like price and library. The biggest gaming library I have is on the ps2 but it made no sense to stick to Sony again and pay a premium price when the 360 played most of the same games, looked better and cheaper. I never understood brand loyalty.



No one said it won't. The Wii had incredible looking games this gen. That has nothing to do with EDGE's article

Whoa, is that suppose to mean what I think it does? Drawing an analogy between Xbox One and Wii? :p I'm out of my league, I think. You guys win.
 
I'm pretty much the opposite. I owned a different set of consoles each gen due to a variety of factors like price and library. The biggest gaming library I have is on the ps2 but it made no sense to stick to Sony again and pay a premium price when the 360 played most of the same games, looked better and cheaper. I never understood brand loyalty.

I bought a 360 first this gen as well (dat Gears 1), but as time went on I eventually got a PS3 and ended up playing more on it. You just can't get exclusives like MGS4, Heavy Rain, GoW, Uncharted, Killzone, etc.. on 360, or PC. I follow the games. And on top of that free online + built in wifi + bluray are awesome bonuses. By the time MGS4 came out the ps3 price was well worth it. MS seemed to have their big titles lose exclusivity, Gears came out on PC, Bioshock came to ps3, as well as Mass Effect.

For the upcoming gen its only a bonus that PS4 is more powerful, but I was firstly hooked by everything else. The games first and foremost, including all the F2P titles. The indie push is also really impressive, seems like every conference this year (Feb reveal, E3, Gamescom, SCEJA conf.) Sony shows a new game I want to play. And then there's the cool features of the system, and PS+ continues to be amazing (getting Resogun and DriveClub for free Day 1 o_O).

When MS came out in May with their very first reveal they left a bad taste. I was actually okay with them starting out with tv and 'xbox on' and whatnot, but 20-30 minutes into the thing and I got fed up, thinking "show me the games!". After that came out all their policies and stuff, cancelling interviews and stuff at E3, system pricing, etc we all know the rest. imo MS has a ways to go before I consider buying their system, policy reversal was just the start. I don't doubt they will get good looking games, but like this gen I imagine Sony exclusives will be a league ahead of everyone else again.

If MS could get games like titanfall and project spark completely exclusively i imagine they'd be in a much better position. Can't wait to see what Black Tusk has though :)
 

OrbitScant

Neo Member
While you're at it, why don't you post screens from both games multi-player modes?... hmm?... i hear Ryse MP shits on KZ SF MP from a pretty significant height graphics/performance wise.

Get on it!!!

You do know that some of those gifs aren't actually realtime don't you? Video streamed from disc.
 
It's not. Console generational gaps are typically in the 800% range.
A 50% gap is (extremely roughly - don't draw the conclusion that we're talking DC-PS2, or Genesis-SNES, or 360-PS3 here!) around a year's worth of progress at the same price point, cocktail-napkin math.

Just going back to this. And bear in mind I make terrible mistakes in mathematics ...

Maybe I'm confusing power, which increases exponentially, with impressiveness, which does not. I expect the PS5 to be 200% as impressive as the PS4, for example, not 800%.
 

nasos_333

Member
Fable Legends trailer was not real time, it was CGI. Did you actually think it was gonna look like that?

Deep Down looks very impressive during gameplay:
dd3.gif

This is in game pic, not from the trailer

http://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Fable-Legends-3.jpg

Deep Down has its own advatages, like the charatcers and effects, but Fable Legends has so huge detail in the surroundings that impresses me more overall

Of course a game with the character fidelity and effects of Deep Down and Fable surroundings and detailed world would be better than both
 

Paz

Member
Just going back to this. And bear in mind I make terrible mistakes in mathematics ...

Maybe I'm confusing power, which increases exponentially, with impressiveness, which does not. I expect the PS5 to be 200% as impressive as the PS4, for example, not 800%.

Here's an example - PS4 has 1600% of the ram that PS3 has. PS3 was way, way, way beyond 200% of PS2.

The Wii was widely mocked for being 200% as powerful as the gamecube (Not saying that was right or wrong, but that was the joke).
 

bonus_sco

Banned
I agree. The games will look fine. I think at this point people are just arguing over HOW good the games will look.

It all depends on how developers make their games.

If their game is fragment shader limited they can drop the resolution. Rendering the 3D scene at 1152 * 1080 has 40% less pixels than 1920 * 1080 and they can tweak the projection matrix for 16:9 output. You can still render certain resolution dependent overlay elements such as text and HUD at full res for proper sharpness.

You render the smaller buffer into the full res back buffer using a full screen quad and people will be none the wiser.

I'd actually love to see if anyone would be able to tell.
 
I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Some people are going to be extremely disappointed when the Xbox ends up not being as weak as they want it to be.

Based on the games shown so far, the Xbox One has very little to worry about. Forza 5 looks incredible, Ryse looks incredible, Killer Instinct looks incredible. Dead Rising 3 is pretty much a carry over from a last gen game, and even that looks pretty impressive and is doing a lot of nice things technically. Quantum Break clearly looks like it's going to be a stunner also. Well, you get the idea. :)

You need to do a better job than that. The Xbox One already has incredible looking games, and it will continue to have incredible looking games. .

I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at with this post.

PS3 has great looking games. 360 has great looking games. Wii U has great looking games. Xbox One has great looking games....and PS4 has great looking games.

The system can still be technically inferior and have great looking games. I don't think anyone is questioning that Xbox One will have good looking games.

But I guarantee that with the performance advantage PS4 has, multiplatform titles will perform better (even if marginally so), and more importantly, the exclusive games will (and already do) look substantially better.

Even launch titles show a difference. Ryse and Forza aren't in Killzone or InFamous' league visually.

This divide is only going to get better once you see Sony's premier studios like Naughty Dog and Santa Monica harness PS4's power.

It's just disappointing that Microsoft didn't intentionally target higher specs. Instead, they are opting to increase the price of Xbox One thanks to Kinect instead of higher specs.

If Xbox One was $500, but had a clear performance advantage to the PS4 (discrete CPU, more powerful GPU, no APU, higher bandwidth GDDR5 RAM), I think many would be more forgiving for its higher price.
 
Deep Down has its own advatages, like the charatcers and effects, but Fable Legends has so huge detail in the surroundings that impresses me more overall

Of course a game with the character fidelity and effects of Deep Down and Fable surroundings and detailed world would be better than both

In the first place, making these kind of comparisons are just short-sighted.

What engine is being used? What effects are in play? What are the resources of the game devoted to? Physics? Particles? Lighting? AI? Graphics? Open-world? Simulation? Framerate?

Furthermore, the developer itself is a variable factor. Evolution Studios will probably never be able to match Turn10 in terms of polycount of the cars, simply due to the massive team size and outsourcing by Turn10, though this does not mean PS4 cannot achieve that polycount. Teams like Lionhead would more likely than not sacrifice some graphical fidelity for the sake of building their RPG world.

And just because Dead Rising 3 has shown horrible framerates isn't an indication that XB1 is weak, it just means Capcom Vancouver sucks.

It's extremely difficult to pit different games together, and base it off pure visuals. It's entirely possible the random-dungeon generation that Deep Down is doing isn't possible for the XB1 ( at the same level ), and that effect may very well have sacrificed the ability for the game to look better. ( due to randomization over well-designed set-pieces )
 

bonus_sco

Banned
I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at with this post.

PS3 has great looking games. 360 has great looking games. Wii U has great looking games. Xbox One has great looking games....and PS4 has great looking games.

The system can still be technically inferior and have great looking games. I don't think anyone is questioning that Xbox One will have good looking games.

But I guarantee that with the performance advantage PS4 has, multiplatform titles will perform better (even if marginally so), and more importantly, the exclusive games will (and already do) look substantially better.

Even launch titles show a difference. Ryse and Forza aren't in Killzone or InFamous' league visually.

This divide is only going to get better once you see Sony's premier studios like Naughty Dog and Santa Monica harness PS4's power.

It's just disappointing that Microsoft didn't intentionally target higher specs. Instead, they are opting to increase the price of Xbox One thanks to Kinect instead of higher specs.

If Xbox One was $500, but had a clear performance advantage to the PS4 (discrete CPU, more powerful GPU, no APU, higher bandwidth GDDR5 RAM), I think many would be more forgiving for its higher price.

The problem with the price comparisons are that they are purely for the launch window.

If Microsoft were telling the truth, the are making a small profit on the hardware from day one. DDR3 is cheaper than GDDR5 and both the memory and the SOC will get significantly cheaper over the life of the system. GDDR5 is unlikely to get cheaper by all that much over the life of the PS4.

Microsoft may be able to make their box cheaper faster and bring out a "slim" earlier meaning that it's possible they could make as much or more money than Sony despite selling less consoles.

If they'd gone with higher specs, GDDR5 and Kinect they'd be even more expensive and have less scope to reduce cost. Then they'd really be in trouble.
 
If their game is fragment shader limited they can drop the resolution. ...I'd actually love to see if anyone would be able to tell.
I think you vastly underestimate the power of a true graphics whore; some people would be able to tell instantly.

But it doesn't matter, because even assuming no one could tell, your argument has no force. See, if there's some resolution-lowering trick that's undetectable, both consoles could use it. And then you're right back to the power gap being as big as ever.
 

Klocker

Member
I will? We're in a thread about Microsoft responding to a comparison between the two systems and your defense is Xbone will get good looking games. Way to go out on a limb!


And the response in the op of this thread was..... "we will have great looking games"..... so.... why is that a problem. That's the whole point... and my point, is to continue that thought....


... MOST people will never notice the difference between the games on either machine.

That's the reality of it and the rest is all just mental masturbation
 

bonus_sco

Banned
I think you vastly underestimate the power of a true graphics whore; some people would be able to tell instantly.

But it doesn't matter, because even assuming no one could tell, your argument has no force. See, if there's some resolution-lowering trick that's undetectable, both consoles could use it. And then you're right back to the power gap being as big as ever.

Absolutely both consoles could do it as it doesn't affect the power of the GPU. It's not really a trick, mobile games especially do it already and NVidia provide a sample showing how it's done. Rage scaled their resolution dynamically in this way and Killzone on the Vita also does this.

It's just one technique developers can use to keep parity between the look of their games on the PS4 and Xbox One. It'll be interesting to see how many go down that path.
 
It's just one technique developers can use to keep parity between the look of their games on the PS4 and Xbox One.
But it doesn't provide parity at all. If both versions use it, PS4 would still have the same amount of extra grunt to throw into other things One can't match.
 

Mandoric

Banned
Absolutely both consoles could do it as it doesn't affect the power of the GPU. It's not really a trick, mobile games especially do it already and NVidia provide a sample showing how it's done. Rage scaled their resolution dynamically in this way and Killzone on the Vita also does this.

It's just one technique developers can use to keep parity between the look of their games on the PS4 and Xbox One. It'll be interesting to see how many go down that path.

But if the Xbone version is already using it to hold 30, the PS4 version can use it to take a shot at 60 or cram in more effects/longer LOD and draw ranges/etc. When the machines are so similar, there's relatively little you can do to bridge the gap rather than change it from "bad version/good version" to "good version/great version".
 

bonus_sco

Banned
But it doesn't provide parity at all. If both versions use it, PS4 would still have the same amount of extra grunt to throw into other things One can't match.

It's unlikely that a cross-platform game would do that.

You'd either make a game the Xbox One could handle and put it onto the PS4 "for free" or you'd target the PS4, get the game running on the one and work out your bottle necks. There are only two obvious Xbox One bottle necks; memory bandwidth and CUs/ROPs.

Memory bandwidth gets fixed by moving render targets to ESRAM, moving highly sampled textures to ESRAM, and using more aggressive PRT and mipmap levels.

CU and ROP limitations can be fixed in a number of ways. The easiest is to reduce your resolution (which also reduces memory bandwidth and increases available ESRAM).

In the end, both consoles have exceptionally similar architectures so you'll end up with most cross platform games having identical features for the most part with lower res textures in the distance and lower res 3D scenes on the Xbox One.
 

FINALBOSS

Banned
The problem with the price comparisons are that they are purely for the launch window.

If Microsoft were telling the truth, the are making a small profit on the hardware from day one. DDR3 is cheaper than GDDR5 and both the memory and the SOC will get significantly cheaper over the life of the system. GDDR5 is unlikely to get cheaper by all that much over the life of the PS4.

Microsoft may be able to make their box cheaper faster and bring out a "slim" earlier meaning that it's possible they could make as much or more money than Sony despite selling less consoles.

If they'd gone with higher specs, GDDR5 and Kinect they'd be even more expensive and have less scope to reduce cost. Then they'd really be in trouble.

Weird post.

All of us couldn't care less if MS or Sony was making more profit. Nothing it stopping Sony from dropping the price if MS did too. But I can tell you right now, there is ZERO CHANCE that MS will be dropping the price ANY time soon. The only way they do it quick (i.e. a fiscal year) is if they are getting straight up thugged by the PS4 in sales in NA.

And the response in the op of this thread was..... "we will have great looking games"..... so.... why is that a problem. That's the whole point... and my point, is to continue that thought....


... MOST people will never notice the difference between the games on either machine.

That's the reality of it and the rest is all just mental masturbation

Core gamers know the difference and they care. Multiplatform releases this gen proved it.
 

bonus_sco

Banned
But if the Xbone version is already using it to hold 30, the PS4 version can use it to take a shot at 60 or cram in more effects/longer LOD and draw ranges/etc. When the machines are so similar, there's relatively little you can do to bridge the gap rather than change it from "bad version/good version" to "good version/great version".

If the Xbox One is genuinely 33% slower than the PS4, then a 60fps game on PS4 would be running at 40fps on Xbox One. 30fps becomes 20fps.

That's making PS4 50% more powerful or Xbox One 33% less.
 

Krilekk

Banned
I agree. The games will look fine. I think at this point people are just arguing over HOW good the games will look.

Yes, they will be fine but the other side has already damage controled that possibility. If games look worse on X1 it's because the hardware is inferior. If they look almost the same it*s because devs gimp the PS4 version on purpose. It's just ridiculous. I wonder what magic moneyhat Microsoft shook if X1 versions end up superior.

If Flops meant anything substantial PS3 games would look double as good as Xbox 360 games. PS3 has about 650 GFlops, 360 about 350 GFlops. The result: 360 games mostly looked better. So yes, it is not about hardware specs, it's about the underlying software tools. And that's an area where I give Microsoft a lot more credit than Sony.

But all this talk is so meaningless, just show us the games so that we can actually see that one is more powerful than the other. Truth is no game so far has shown me the acclaimed 10x performance over current gen. Not even close.
 

bonus_sco

Banned
Weird post.

All of us couldn't care less if MS or Sony was making more profit. Nothing it stopping Sony from dropping the price if MS did too. But I can tell you right now, there is ZERO CHANCE that MS will be dropping the price ANY time soon. The only way they do it quick (i.e. a fiscal year) is if they are getting straight up thugged by the PS4 in sales in NA.



Core gamers know the difference and they care. Multiplatform releases this gen proved it.

Definitely, I was just pointing out that prices aren't set in stone and Microsoft have a lot of leeway to reduce prices profitably in the future. The post I was replying to was discussing the price.

Both consoles will sell out at launch. That would probably even be the case if they both cost twice as much.
 

Mulgrok

Member
Particle effects are the new bloom. Expect to see so much glaring particle spray on screen that you can barely see anything anyway. Bloom/HDR abuse from this generation was horrible - so it will be good to have something else making my eyes bleed for a change.
 
Xbox One games will look great, but it's fair to say that third party titles will likely run better on the PS4 and Sony's first party efforts will completely dwarf anything Microsoft has.
 
It's unlikely that a cross-platform game would do that.

You'd either make a game the Xbox One could handle and put it onto the PS4 "for free" or you'd target the PS4, get the game running on the one and work out your bottle necks.
If your first option happens, once the game is on PS4 you'll have plenty of easily-accessible power to do more, so devs will. (Remember their games are competing against others on the same system, so can't afford to be lazy ports.) Your second option is to spend more money and time tweaking the One version, to end up with a result that has simpler models, lower-res background textures, and 40% less resolution than the PS4 version.

In other words, you're saying that PS4 games will always look better, due to the hardware advantage.
 

bonus_sco

Banned
If your first option happens, once the game is on PS4 you'll have plenty of easily-accessible power to do more, so devs will. (Remember their games are competing against others on the same system, so can't afford to be lazy ports.) Your second option is to spend more money and time tweaking the One version, to end up with a result that has simpler models, lower-res background textures, and 40% less resolution than the PS4 version.

In other words, you're saying that PS4 games will always look better, due to the hardware advantage.

Obviously. I'm not arguing for or against either. I don't care that they're different or that one is "better". I'm pointing out how things can be achieved and what the different parts of the systems are useful for.

There isn't much to say about the PS4. It's a basic AMD architecture with a few modifications and more raw power than the Xbox One. The Xbox One has more interesting hardware to me because it's unique, at no point does that mean it's more powerful than PS4 or as bad as things like the Edge article are taken to mean without qualification.
 

nib95

Banned
If Flops meant anything substantial PS3 games would look double as good as Xbox 360 games. PS3 has about 650 GFlops, 360 about 350 GFlops.

Those are going by Nvidia's still fluffed numbers. The real numbers look more like this.

PS3 | RSX: 176 Gflops and Cell: 230 Glops, Total 406 Gflops

360 | Xenos: 240 Gflops and CPU: 77 Gflops, Total 317 Glops

PS3 based on raw performance is 28% more powerful than the 360.

The reason the raw performance figures did not line up with multi platform titles is because Cell and the PS3's RSX were notoriously difficult to develop for. Non unified split ram, multiples SPE's, less overall memory to work with etc. The GPU was actually weaker, and could only overcome it piggy backing off some heavy handed Cell SPE usage. Sony first party had the time and development resources to do this, which is why PS3 first party titles are the best looking and most technically impressive this generation.

Very different situation now...

PS4 | GPU: 1.84 Tflops and CPU: 100 Glops, Total 1.94 Tflops

Xbox One | GPU: 1.31 Tflops and CPU: 109 Gflops, Total 1.41 Tflops

PS4 based on raw performance is 38% more powerful than the Xbox One, but without any of the previous issues that plagued the PS3, and with a whole host of other advantages over the XO. This time it's the PS4 with the unified ram, the higher ram bandwidth, the higher ram availability etc. It's a completely different situation.
 

bonus_sco

Banned
If your first option happens, once the game is on PS4 you'll have plenty of easily-accessible power to do more, so devs will. (Remember their games are competing against others on the same system, so can't afford to be lazy ports.) Your second option is to spend more money and time tweaking the One version, to end up with a result that has simpler models, lower-res background textures, and 40% less resolution than the PS4 version.

In other words, you're saying that PS4 games will always look better, due to the hardware advantage.

I agree with you, I don't think anyone would target Xbox One if making a cross platform game and port to PS4 but it is an option.

I think developers will mostly target high end PCs and scale both console versions back from there. Even if the game never ships on PC, most studios will be able to run on PC locally for ease of development.
 

Mandoric

Banned
If the Xbox One is genuinely 33% slower than the PS4, then a 60fps game on PS4 would be running at 40fps on Xbox One. 30fps becomes 20fps.

That's making PS4 50% more powerful or Xbox One 33% less.

Push for, not necessarily attain. Though now that you mention it, 40/60 sounds suspiciously close to "native high 30s vsynced to 30/60 at times dropping to 30 during heavy effects".
note: i don't actually believe this will happen, and it's not like multiplat devs care about hitting 60 when they could add more effects anyway

Hey, isn't SCO a close business partner of Microsoft?
 
The Xbox One has more interesting hardware to me because it's unique, at no point does that mean it's more powerful than PS4 or as bad as things like the Edge article are taken to mean without qualification.
If you want to merely explore technical approaches, fair enough. The problem occurs with that last part. The EDGE article is based on quotes from actual One developers; why don't you trust their word on performance? You agree PS4 is more powerful and One will never match it, so what do you take issue with?
 

bonus_sco

Banned
If you want to merely explore technical approaches, fair enough. The problem occurs with that last part. The EDGE article is based on quotes from actual One developers; why don't you trust their word on performance? You agree PS4 is more powerful and One will never match it, so what do you take issue with?

The fact that "platform agnostic" code would mean not using the ESRAM so the Xbox One would be bandwidth limited by the DDR3 and no one would do that.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Folks get way too hung up on percentage differences, like whether it's 20, 30, 40, or 50%, and end up having this notion that at some arbitrary percentage point, the power difference somehow becomes "significant." Really, folks are blowing the numbers out of proportion and getting too hung up on specific numbers.

To illustrate this point, let's compare some PC GPUs that actually have a significant gap in performance, where there would be a huge leap in resolution, IQ, and fidelity between them. For this example, take the fairly pitiful HD7670, with a meager 768 GFLOPS, and compare it to the comparatively monstrous HD7990, still today a beast of a card with a whopping 3891x2 GFLOPS under its belt.

This represents a truly massive power differential. This is where you'd expect to drop resolution, IQ, fidelity, everything just to get a decent framerate on the weaker hardware. And it makes sense - in this case, there is a 1013% difference in GFLOP capability between the cards. That's a level of difference where you can expect to see something that arguably looks like a generational leap, something that looks like Xbox vs. PS2, maybe more.

Now look back at the Xbone vs. PS4. 50%, what does that amount to again? What does 20, 30, 40% actually result in? Probably not as much as folks have in their minds. Yeah, it's a difference; yeah, first party titles will show the difference when they fully exploit each system's power. But multiplats? If there's a difference, don't get yourself worked up into believing it's going to be this huge gulf. Some parts could get trimmed down going from PS4 to Xbone, sure, but getting all worked up over how much will actually come of a ~50% or less difference starts to get silly.

Just a general observation I'm throwing out there, take it for what y'all will.


50% increase would have most of PC Gaming GAF getting their credit cards out if it was a new GPU.



I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Some people are going to be extremely disappointed when the Xbox ends up not being as weak as they want it to be.

Based on the games shown so far, the Xbox One has very little to worry about. Forza 5 looks incredible, Ryse looks incredible, Killer Instinct looks incredible. Dead Rising 3 is pretty much a carry over from a last gen game, and even that looks pretty impressive and is doing a lot of nice things technically. Quantum Break clearly looks like it's going to be a stunner also. Well, you get the idea. :)

Considering how many digital foundry face-offs were picking apart tiny differences between Multiplatform games, I think any difference will create plenty to talk about for GAF at least :)

For the mainstream you're right though. But for me I'll just be happy knowing that I don't have to 'make do' with my PS4 3rd party game. And as a tech enthusiast it just simply feels good to know the product you choose has the most potential (even if it isn't always leveraged)
 

Finalizer

Member
50% increase would have most of PC Gaming GAF getting their credit cards out if it was a new GPU.

To be fair, parts of PCGaf would probably upgrade if there was a 5% difference, heh.

And just to clarify, I realize looking back that my post looks more like it's trying to downplay the difference in general between the PS4 & Xbone, which really wasn't my actual goal - more that it was to put into perspective what an actual percentage difference really means. Specifically, to point out that 50% doesn't suddenly become this gulf of difference. Naturally, it is a difference. Just not one where folks should get so hung up on, like it's this important number compared to, say, 30, 40, whatever. Thus, the real question, to me, is more about what tangible differences will there be in multi-plats.
 
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