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Microsoft's Surface Book 2

F

Fulminator

Member
There's no option for i5,16gb ram,256gb ssd?

Looks like I won't be buying one. Too expensive. I don't need an i7 or 512gb ssd

Add more customization options MS
 
ToxicPhantom

ToxicPhantom

Member
brotkasten said:
Very expensive, as always.

Surface Book 2 (13.5 inch)

• 7th Generation Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB, integrated GPU - $1,499 USD ERP
• 8th Generation Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, 256GB, discrete-GPU - $1,999 USD ERP
• 8th Generation Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM, 512GB, discrete-GPU - $2,499 USD ERP
• 8th Generation Intel Core, i7, 16 GB RAM, 1TB, discrete-GPU - $2,999 USD ERP

Surface Book 2 (15-inch)

• 8th Generation Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, 256GB, dGPU - $2,499 USD ERP
• 8th Generation Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM, 512GB, dGPU - $2,899 USD ERP
• 8th Generation Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM, 1TB, dGPU - $ 3,299 USD ERP

http://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...thesurface-book-2-specs-pricing-availability/
Click to expand...


Well, they out priced me once again. Oh well. My Pro 3 is running just fine.
 
M

Massicot

Member
The fact that they didn't change the hinge (somehow) makes me feel better about grabbing a Surface Book about half a year ago.
 
vewn

vewn

Member
This looks like a great mobile creative device.
Pretty much the same specs as my current notebook but I wouldn't have to carry a Wacom Intuos with me.
I'm not gonna spend 2900€ on a machine that isn't quite an upgrade from my current one though.
 
V

Vinsanity.

Member
I missed the keynote. Did Panos Panay say that he was so PUMPED to show everyone this new Surface Book? Did he have long, drawn-out pauses while he described it? I’m hoping the answer is yes.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
brotkasten said:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...thesurface-book-2-specs-pricing-availability/

e: I just noticed that the cheapest SB2 comes with the last-gen i5. lmao



Of course, but Apple manages to get a somewhat realistic estimate for their battery life.
Click to expand...

The only difference between 7th gen Kaby Lake and 8th gen (still Kaby Lake) are dual vs quad core. They are basically offering dual core CPU option if you want to go "cheap" (LOL). Expect a lot of confusion from consumers due to this fucked up 7th/8th gen mobile transition with "Kaby Lake-Refresh" BS. All it means is that Intel all along could have gave us quad core i5/i7 for 10~25W envelope but didn't until they felt pressure from impending mobile Ryzen.

And yeah, Apple does a bit better estimating battery life.
 
S

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
On a purely spec-to-spec comparison, this thing handily beats my 2017 15" MBP.

Better CPU. Way better GPU.

But I think my MBP still offers some things I'd struggle to give up - 4 TB ports all w/power has been a game changer for me, I love the giant trackpad, and subjectively, I've yet to see a laptop display I like more than mine (other than the AW 13 OLED). Also, the MBP has a "normal" form factor with no gap.

***

I can't see myself giving up macOS. That said, boy do I wish I could have that 1060. Hnng...

EDIT: Wait, just realized... these are the lower watt variants of the CPUs, aren't they? Even with quad-core, I think the MacBook Pro uses the "better" ones.
 
C

Chezzymann

Member
As long as there aren't replaceable batteries on these things I'm not investing $1500+. Too many stories (including my own) about surface products bricking after a couple years and there's nothing you can do since the battery is seared on.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
I was really interested in the 15"er until:

All Surface Book 2's have a USB Type-C 3.1 port instead of the mini DisplayPort found in the original Surface Book. It is not Thunderbolt 3 compliant, however, so there is no external GPU (eGPU) support.
Click to expand...

Nah. That's where you fucked up, MS. That's entirely unacceptable at this point.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
Skel1ingt0n said:
On a purely spec-to-spec comparison, this thing handily beats my 2017 15" MBP.

Better CPU. Way better GPU.

But I think my MBP still offers some things I'd struggle to give up - 4 TB ports all w/power has been a game changer for me, I love the giant trackpad, and subjectively, I've yet to see a laptop display I like more than mine (other than the AW 13 OLED). Also, the MBP has a "normal" form factor with no gap.

***

I can't see myself giving up macOS. That said, boy do I wish I could have that 1060. Hnng...

EDIT: Wait, just realized... these are the lower watt variants of the CPUs, aren't they? Even with quad-core, I think the MacBook Pro uses the "better" ones.
Click to expand...

Not sure if better... They will both perform about the same at the upper end (~9000 on Passmark). It's just that these new quad cores can operate @ 10W with less demand. It's just more flexible CPU.

Expect next gen MBP to switch to these 10~25W quad core i7s. 25~35W i7s will be probably going hexa or octa core soon, which will end up being the added cost top tier options for 15" MBP in the future IF they don't make the damn thing any more thinner..
 
F

Futureman

Member
what's the difference between USB-C gen 1 and 2?

also I guess it sucks having no external GPU support but the graphics chip in the SB 15" is pretty damn powerful.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Per MS on the update if you don't want to shell out for a Surface Book 2...

Beginning today at 10 a.m. P.T., the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update will start rolling out to Windows 10 PCs across the world in phases, starting with newer machines first.
Click to expand...
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
giga said:
No way. What's even the point then?
Click to expand...

way, fam:

All Surface Book 2's have a USB Type-C 3.1 port instead of the mini DisplayPort found in the original Surface Book. It is not Thunderbolt 3 compliant, however, so there is no external GPU (eGPU) support.
Click to expand...

No idea what the point is. It's a huge miss, IMO.

The new Razer Blade has had it for months. https://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade

Similar prices and specs, though I assume inferior battery life and of course it's not a convertable.

I really don't understand how they could have fucked this part up.

captive said:
entirely unacceptable? You realize you are like the nichiest of the niche wanting that right?
Click to expand...

the nichest of the niche? the fuck? We're not talking about using this shit for playing games; we're talking about features for professionals. Quite a bit of pro equipment needs proper Thunderbolt support and high-end laptops have been including it for some time for that exact reason. dGPU support is also a big boost to the lifespan of laptops. If you're buying $2700 laptops as toys, by all means. For those of us who would like to get real work done, many of us have to immediately cross this off the list.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
I was really interested in the 15"er until:



Nah. That's where you fucked up, MS. That's entirely unacceptable at this point.
Click to expand...

Thunderbolt will probably never happen as long as MS still wants to push their dock through the proprietary power port thingy.

But then again, with a GTX 1060 on the base and limitations of eGPU via Thunderbolt 3 bandwidth, it's mostly a moot point IMO.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
giga said:
Who measures battery life on purely video playback anymore? Is this device meant to just watch videos on?
Click to expand...

This is what I mean. It's a metric that's not going to help anyone.

Fulminator said:
There's no option for i5,16gb ram,256gb ssd?

Looks like I won't be buying one. Too expensive. I don't need an i7 or 512gb ssd

Add more customization options MS
Click to expand...

They won't do that, because they know people would rather have more RAM than storage and it's their way to gauge these customers. It's incredibly shitty of them.

Antiwhippy said:
They didn't improve on that gap hinge?
Click to expand...

It's a refresh. They probably feel like that it's too soon for a proper redesign of the chassis. Same goes for the Surface Pro.

Vinsanity. said:
I missed the keynote. Did Panos Panay say that he was so PUMPED to show everyone this new Surface Book? Did he have long, drawn-out pauses while he described it? I'm hoping the answer is yes.
Click to expand...

I didn't watch the presentation yet, but that's not even a question. Of course, he is. Even in the blog post, he's said that he's pumped.

And I'm so pumped to get these products into customers' hands. To see what you will do with the most powerful Surface laptop. Be the first to experience and pre-order the Surface Book 2 at a Microsoft Store or retailer near you.

https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2...e-book-2-the-most-powerful-surface-book-ever/

Shogmaster said:
The only difference between 7th gen Kaby Lake and 8th gen (still Kaby Lake) are dual vs quad core. They are basically offering dual core CPU option if you want to go "cheap" (LOL). Expect a lot of confusion from consumers due to this fucked up 7th/8th gen mobile transition with "Kaby Lake-Refresh" BS. All it means is that Intel all along could have gave us quad core i5/i7 for 10~25W envelope but didn't until they felt pressure from impending mobile Ryzen.

And yeah, Apple does a bit better estimating battery life.
Click to expand...

Thank you for clearing this up. So the small $1500/1700€ model remains dual-core, while all others are upgraded to quad-cores. Fucking hell. Makes me rather get a SB1 during a deal or something.

blue_phazon said:
I wish Microsoft would make a good quality budget laptop someday. And by budget I mean somewhere around 800 US
Click to expand...

That's not the segment for these devices. They're premium on purpose. Mostly so that they won't alienate their hardware OEMs like Dell and HP.

BlazinSkatinAxel said:
If Windows team gets their OS together.
Click to expand...

This is my absolute biggest gripe with the Surface Pro 4. It's better than it was 2 years ago, but still a garbage tablet OS.
e: Not to mention all the driver nightmares they had with the Skylake chips. It took them 6 months to come close to fixes. That's really embarrassing.
 
F

Fulminator

Member
i feel like with machines like these 16gb of RAM needs to be the baseline tbh

it's dumb that i have to shell out multiple hundreds of more dollars to get 16gb of RAM
 
G

giga

Member
Skel1ingt0n said:
On a purely spec-to-spec comparison, this thing handily beats my 2017 15" MBP.

Better CPU. Way better GPU.

But I think my MBP still offers some things I'd struggle to give up - 4 TB ports all w/power has been a game changer for me, I love the giant trackpad, and subjectively, I've yet to see a laptop display I like more than mine (other than the AW 13 OLED). Also, the MBP has a "normal" form factor with no gap.

***

I can't see myself giving up macOS. That said, boy do I wish I could have that 1060. Hnng...

EDIT: Wait, just realized... these are the lower watt variants of the CPUs, aren't they? Even with quad-core, I think the MacBook Pro uses the "better" ones.
Click to expand...
"The 15-inch version is broadly similar. There's no i5 option for the 15-inch unit, and all 15-inch versions come with 16GB of RAM across all three storage sizes. The 15-inch tablet has the same Kaby Lake-R i7-8650U processor, but this one does contain a fan, with Microsoft telling us that this enables the processor to ramp up to about 20W of power draw, which should in turn give it a sustained performance edge over the 13-inch tablet, even though it has an identical processor."

MBP 15 starts with the 45W 7700HQ, so yes, that'll be a weaker chip.
 
P

Pooya

Member
They could fit a 1080 if they wanted to, there are 1080s in as thin laptops now and in here they have all the base to fit the gpu and its cooling unlike in those. For that price tag, it could have had it.
 
T

talkingood

Member
Was there a livestream link somewhere not on Facebook? I want to hear Panos Panoy hypnotize me with his infectious, semi-religious product experience nonsense at work.
 
B

badb0y

Member
As someone who has owned this device and was dissatisfied I would recommend the people wanting to purchase a SB2 to go into a local electronic store and actually test it out. In my experience it was an adequate laptop and tablet but didn't really do either of those things well.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
giga said:
"The 15-inch version is broadly similar. There's no i5 option for the 15-inch unit, and all 15-inch versions come with 16GB of RAM across all three storage sizes. The 15-inch tablet has the same Kaby Lake-R i7-8650U processor, but this one does contain a fan, with Microsoft telling us that this enables the processor to ramp up to about 20W of power draw, which should in turn give it a sustained performance edge over the 13-inch tablet, even though it has an identical processor."

MBP 15 starts with the 45W 7700HQ, so yes, that'll be a weaker chip.
Click to expand...

I doubt you'll notice the difference, since they both clock up to about same clock.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2906&cmp[]=3064

8550u scores almost as much as 7700HQ. 8650u will be even closer.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Dreams-Visions said:
way, fam:



No idea what the point is. It's a huge miss, IMO.

The new Razer Blade has had it for months. https://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade

Similar prices and specs, though I assume inferior battery life and of course it's not a convertable.

I really don't understand how they could have fucked this part up.



the nichest of the niche? the fuck? We're not talking about using this shit for playing games; we're talking about features for professionals. Quite a bit of pro equipment needs proper Thunderbolt support and high-end laptops have been including it for some time for that exact reason. dGPU support is also a big boost to the lifespan of laptops. If you're buying $2700 laptops as toys, by all means. For those of us who would like to get real work done, many of us have to immediately cross this off the list.
Click to expand...

no need to get all pissy bro, i do real work too. But its still fucking niche, even if "real pros" need it.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Shogmaster said:
Thunderbolt will probably never happen as long as MS still wants to push their dock through the proprietary power port thingy.

But then again, with a GTX 1060 on the base and limitations of eGPU via Thunderbolt 3 bandwidth, it's mostly a moot point IMO.
Click to expand...

Are we talking about this thing with a couple of MDP ports and some USB 3 ports?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/d/microsoft-surface-dock/8qrh2npz0s0p/hpr1

With the 2.5 / 5 star ratings? Nah, that's not getting it done.

You might be right about it never supporting Thunderbolt 3; I don't know anything about MS' stance on it. What I do know is that their competitors in this price space and less have it, including products from:

Apple (obvious)
Asus
Razer
Alienware
Lenovo
HP

...and a few others that I can think of like MSI. They all have their pros and cons that I won't waste time on, but I don't have to instantly cross any of them off the list because of a lack of pro hardware support by design. It bothers me because I was briefly imagining this Surface replacing my MBP. I quickly had that notion dispelled upon reading the fine print. I generally have more confidence in MS as a brand than some of the others listed, so it would have been my #1 Windows laptop option if not for this.

It's fine for general use I'm sure. If your lifestyle generally revolves around Adobe products, MS Office and web browsing I'm sure it's good enough. But it lost a great deal of professional usage and longevity here. I would not be surprised to see a revision that updates the USB-C implementation at some point in the future. Ignore me, I'm just disappointed because it appears to be a lovely device and one that would have been on my very short list.
 
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