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[Carpe Libertatem]

Wait if women control so much spending power shouldn`t that be taken away and reduced to 50% so that its even?

Most wealth is earned by men, but generally speaking women are the ones who do the shopping in households (hence why you see most advertisements that target women).

This happens because it's a decades old practice dating back to when women would not work and would do the shopping.

But most of the wealth in the United States is earned by men. And that's a problem (that is thankfully gradually changing). Women control much of the spending power because of a society that is inherently sexist (and not in the way you seem to be implying).

 

[GraveRobberX]

I'm proud of NeoGAF going off on this but kind of disappointed that the Internet swell to destroy this has been rather slow.

Tis' the weekend

Most are either on GOW Ascension or GeOW Judgment and finishing it up or have magically come into possession of Bioshock Infinite

They want to get to the ending to see if the spoilers match, then bitch from tomorrow morning that the twists were ruined for them

 

[zugzug]

I nominate these people for the first beheadings when the Revolution starts against the 1%'ers of the world.

 

[airmangataosenai]

I'm not sure which is more offensive; the kickstarter or her equating RPGmaker camp to a STEM activity.

And her saying that her kid didn't want pictures of herself posted online for promote the campaign/scam? Classy lady right here.

 

[Wibblewozzer]

I think people are misreading that rule.



The purpose of the Kickstarter is not to pay the tuition of her course, the purpose is to create a game, which is why this is not against the rules. If you think other game-related Kickstarter projects haven't used some of the funds in order to buy educational books, take programming courses, or buy tools like a camera then you're fooling yourself.

With that said, I originally had no problem with this but it has since been proven that this Kickstarter has other problems that make it really shady and I don't see why anyone would want to donate to it.

The purpose of this Kickstarter is purely to educate. She already has the tools necessary to create the game so what the money goes towards is to pay for the education, which would fall under tuition. I don't know how you can say the purpose isn't to pay for the tuition when it says this within the project:

"My Project:

I'm raising $829 to cover the cost of attending this RPG STEM Camp for kids 9-12 years old for a week"

I understand a game will be part of the outcome of going to this camp but the money the Kickstarter is requesting is purely to pay for the camp, not for the tools and resources required to make a game.

Secondly, while likely already brought up by others I'm also rather bothered that it's abusing the rules by having the mother make the project because the daughter is too young. The mother has zero to do with the actual project so she's not the real person behind the project. This is a point that could be argued, though, and is the lesser concern of what this Kickstarter is doing that's against the terms of Kickstarter.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Most wealth is earned by men, but generally speaking women are the ones who do the shopping in households (hence why you see most advertisements that target women).

This happens because it's a decades old practice dating back to when women would not work and would do the shopping.

But most of the wealth in the United States is earned by men. And that's a problem (that is thankfully gradually changing). Women control much of the spending power because of a society that is inherently sexist (and not in the way you seem to be implying).

So what will you say when the upcoming generation of college grads has majority female earning power, and majority female spending power with it? Will that be a problem? That is, after all, the near future, and will only continue from there. Specifically, focus on median earning power, which is what matters to the vast majority of people.

Maybe it's time to stop beating that old drum?

Women control much of the spending power because of a society that is inherently sexist (and not in the way you seem to be implying).

... and trying to spin having power as the lack of it?

 

[foobarry81]

The purpose of this Kickstarter is purely to educate. She already has the tools necessary to create the game so what the money goes towards is to pay for the education, which would fall under tuition. I don't know how you can say the purpose isn't to pay for the tuition when it says this within the project:

"My Project:

I'm raising $829 to cover the cost of attending this RPG STEM Camp for kids 9-12 years old for a week"

I understand a game will be part of the outcome of going to this camp but the money the Kickstarter is requesting is purely to pay for the camp, not for the tools and resources required to make a game.

Secondly, while likely already brought up by others I'm also rather bothered that it's abusing the rules by having the mother make the project because the daughter is too young. The mother has zero to do with the actual project so she's not the real person behind the project. This is a point that could be argued, though, and is the lesser concern of what this Kickstarter is doing that's against the terms of Kickstarter.

I agree. The game is only part of the outcome of the reward tiers. It doesn´t say they are going to actually sell (like releasing it on Steam or somewhere else) it afterwards. It´s about tuition and "raising awareness about gender issues".

How is it that the mother has nothing to do with the project? She´s collecting the profit.

 

[Gully State]

This reminds me of Diddy's son accepting a college scholarship and the internet shitting on him for not paying.

Not even close to the same thing...his kid earned it based on merit and is designated specifically for education which KS is not..

 

[Wibblewozzer]

How is it that the mother has nothing to do with the project? She´s collecting the profits.

Heh, guess you're right there. Obviously I meant in terms of the creation of the "project" portion of this Kickstarter (which would be the RPG made by the daughter at a week-long camp). But I think you knew that.

 

[Pinko Marx]

I'm proud of NeoGAF going off on this but kind of disappointed that the Internet swell to destroy this has been rather slow.

It would make my day if anonymous got involved in this.

 

[Kalnos]

I don't know how you can say the purpose isn't to pay for the tuition when it says this within the project:

Please, don't think I'm defending this. I would like to see this thing die after what people have uncovered about the woman who started it but I'm just trying to say why I think it may be sliding through the system.

I will say though that Kickstarter has some horribly written guidelines. They're way too ambiguous.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

So what will you say when the upcoming generation of college grads has majority female earning power, and majority female spending power with it? Will that be a problem? That is, after all, the near future, and will only continue from there. Specifically, focus on median earning power, which is what matters to the vast majority of people.

Maybe it's time to stop beating that old drum?


... and trying to spin having power as the lack of it?

We'll see what happens when we get there. You can't simply say that because the majority of college graduates will be females that they will earn a majority of wealth. Women are still paid less than men. Women - if they want to have children - are expected to leave the workplace with often very little compensation (and maternal leave and child care is a joke in the United States).

And trying to spin something? I'm not trying to spin anything - if you think that controlling household wealth is "having power," then you're mistaken when that control is premised on the fact that men are the breadwinners and women are not. Thankfully, that has changed and continues to change.

Threads like this really bring out the bitterness (and misogyny in some cases) in people.

 

[polyh3dron]

Yep so here's the part where they do the outrage thing where they point to all of this evil sexist persecution they've received from Internet bullies and even from this very thread and then the Internet White Knights see a Damsel In Distress, swoop in and before you know it they have about $150,000.

 

[foobarry81]

Heh, guess you're right there. Obviously I meant in terms of the creation of the "project" portion of this Kickstarter (which would be the RPG made by the daughter at a week-long camp). But I think you knew that.

Yeah, and I agree with you on how that´s just another thing that´s shady about this whole project of hers.

 

[Wibblewozzer]

Please, don't think I'm defending this. I would like to see this thing die after what people have uncovered about the woman who started it but I'm just trying to say why I think it may be sliding through the system.

I will say though that Kickstarter has some horribly written guidelines. They're way too ambiguous.

True, it leaves a bit too much room for things to slide through. But they only take a cursory glance through submissions before putting them up so this could easily be something that someone in Kickstarter barely looked at and hopefully people reporting it will get them to actually read it with a bit more care and realize that it shouldn't be up.

 

[polyh3dron]

I wonder when the 9 year old girl or her mother will do a TEDxWomen talk about the harassment they've received from these horrible sexist men on the Internet.

 

[thesurfshop19]

Yep so here's the part where they do the outrage thing where they point to all of this evil sexist persecution they've received from Internet bullies and even from this very thread and then the Internet White Knights see a Damsel In Distress, swoop in and before you know it they have about $150,000.

We really need to separate scams like this from legitimate projects like Anita Sarkeesian's. There was real, disgusting harassment that proved her point as well. Totally different IMO edit: and we need to make that clear in our responses.

 

[spwolf]

The purpose of this Kickstarter is purely to educate. She already has the tools necessary to create the game

any of kickstarter projects that were successful already had all the tools necessary to create the game.

of course, someone getting $20k for something that was supposed to end at $810 should not happen, but if you think that any of good projects would not happen, you are in wrong. They would, they would just need to go the route every new startup does before getting their product out - banks, venture capital, etc, etc. With Kickstarter, developers/founders have no risk at all, people pay them upfront for their product without them having to take personal loans and sell half of their business to some investor for not a lot of money.

 

[Emerson]

any of kickstarter projects that were successful already had all the tools necessary to create the game.

of course, someone getting $20k for something that was supposed to end at $810 should not happen, but if you think that any of good projects would not happen, you are in wrong. They would, they would just need to go the route every new startup does before getting their product out - banks, venture capital, etc, etc. With Kickstarter, developers/founders have no risk at all, people pay them upfront for their product without them having to take personal loans and sell half of their business to some investor for not a lot of money.

Do you not understand the fundamental difference, this being that in this case the RPG camp is literally already paid for and they want people to pay for it retroactively. The kickstarter is clearly just a money grab, leveraging her own children and "feminist" ideals. The rewards for pledging are pretty much completely tacked on and the game itself is an afterthought.

There is no project here. It's an awareness campaign at best and in reality just a money grab and probably trying to establish her shitty "Keep up!" brand.

 

[dragonelite]

Wtf mind is blown get the girl a book to read.
This has to be a publicity stunt right?

 

[Yasae]

Not even close to the same thing...his kid earned it based on merit and is designated specifically for education which KS is not..

It's still proof of who gets the help in this country. We don't really think there are an overwhelming number of poor kids getting merit scholarships, do we? The research certainly does not support that conclusion. (As an aside, it also doesn't support minorities getting more than comparable white students).

Class worship.

 

[FireVoa]

Reported this shameless kickstarter scam.

 

[kirby_fox]

I saw this the other day and decided against donating. Something just felt fishy and of course it shows up here a few days later...

So is this how we get a KS funded then? If I was a bad person, I'd remember this when I launch a campaign to fund my video game...

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

any of kickstarter projects that were successful already had all the tools necessary to create the game.

of course, someone getting $20k for something that was supposed to end at $810 should not happen

I think the first red flag for a lot of people should have been the limits on the tiers.

The $100 tier is limited as high as 20? So the total for that could be - and was/is - $2k. For someone that is just trying to get under $900 for training. There was a tier for $10k? And it had a possible ceiling of five? $50k?

A lot of Kickstarters don't have the greatest tier control, but this is something else entirely.

 

[RicardoNeftali]

If this isn't taken down, the game will literally just be a credits screen with over a thousand names. It will effectively have no violence or swears. Just names.

I mean honestly how much of this can she actually get done in a friggin weekend.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I mean honestly how much of this can she actually get done in a friggin weekend.

Regardless of the actual KS, people do 48 hour gamejams.

So what if it's a nine-year old or a twenty-year old?

 

[MBison]

If this isn't taken down, the game will literally just be a credits screen with over a thousand names. It will effectively have no violence or swears. Just names.

I mean honestly how much of this can she actually get done in a friggin weekend.

Cause there won't really be a game, like some haphazard thing made with RPG maker so she can be like aww how cute did Kenzie do with her unplayable but so special RPG game. She did it with so much heart!

 

[speculawyer]

So the lady runs a glorified collections agency.

Of course she tries to get other people to pay for something.

 

[LukeTim]

So the lady runs a glorified collections agency.

Of course she tries to get other people to pay for something.

"My company makes money by helping people hunt down deadbeats who owe them judgements. We just take a percentage of that. I mean after all isn't 80% of the money you need better than the 0% you were getting?" -Susan Wilson

Oh god. This woman just gets worse the more I hear about her.

Her use of the word "deadbeats" to describe people who struggle to pay their debts is a pretty clear indication of her attitude towards the poor.

 

[Patapwn]

Just reading the first few pgs here, it seems the best argument 'for' allowing this project to launch is that there's a game at the end of the tunnel.

Wouldn't that be like saying 'fund my engineering school tuition so I can design a remote control car!'? This seems like a violation of the rules opaqued by a foggy angle

TIL- there's such things as an RPG school (or is there?)

 

[RicardoNeftali]

Regardless of the actual KS, people do 48 hour gamejams.

So what if it's a nine-year old or a twenty-year old?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there is a difference between a team of developers doing a 48 hour gamejam. And one done by a lone 9 year old with no training whatsoever.

 

[AlimNassor]

Yep so here's the part where they do the outrage thing where they point to all of this evil sexist persecution they've received from Internet bullies and even from this very thread and then the Internet White Knights see a Damsel In Distress, swoop in and before you know it they have about $150,000.

that's disturbing if someone white knighted a 9 year old girl...

 

[LukeTim]

Just reading the first few pgs here, it seems the best argument 'for' allowing this project to launch is that there's a game at the end of the tunnel.

Wouldn't that be like saying 'fund my engineering school tuition so I can design a remote control car!'? This seems like a violation of the rules opaqued by a foggy angle

TIL- there's such things as an RPG school (or is there?)

There is. A guy on 4Chan confirmed as he works for the company that offers it... proved using a photo of an id card.

He said it's shit, though. They don't do a whole lot, especially not game design... apparently the camp is a scam set up by some "bitch". At least that's what I gathered.

 

[Ominym]

Regardless of the actual KS, people do 48 hour gamejams.

So what if it's a nine-year old or a twenty-year old?

A significant amount of development, maturity, and tact is a big factor here? You can't seriously be saying a nine year old is up to snuff with a 20 year old, are you?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there is a difference between a team of developers doing a 48 hour gamejam. And one done by a lone 9 year old with no training whatsoever.

Yes, of course; but that wasn't my point. You're acting like her game would be invalid simply because it isn't made by older people.

You can't seriously be saying a nine year old is up to snuff with a 20 year old, are you?

You know I'm not. Stop trying to pick an eFight.

 

[mattiewheels]

I think people are misreading that rule.



The purpose of the Kickstarter is not to pay the tuition of her course, the purpose is to create a game, which is why this is not against the rules. If you think other game-related Kickstarter projects haven't used some of the funds in order to buy educational books, take programming courses, or buy tools like a camera then you're fooling yourself.

That's exactly why, in my report to Kickstarter, I asked them if they would let me do the same thing she has: ask for funding for an education so that I can create a promised but comletely vague product. I don't think they would. But I also don't have some social message stunt to attach to my own endeavors.

 

[Lissar]

Quick ?

The game she is creating is through RPG Maker

Are you allowed to sell your RPG Maker game using their assets?

Shouldn't the company that created RPG maker get a cut or sue the ever living shit out of it?

No, you can sell your game commercially even if you only use the RTP assets. Whether or not it will do well is another matter entirely.

I've been making my own games through RPG Maker (though not using any of the assets) so I've been looking it up. All they require is that you purchase the engine license.

 

[slabrock]

I'll be surprised if this makes it to get funded. Kickstarter's rep is worth more than the 10% they will make from this project.

 

[LukeTim]

http://www.mackenziewilson.com/

I wish I had my own website when I was 9...

Kids these days...

 

[RicardoNeftali]

Yes, of course; but that wasn't my point. You're acting like her game would be invalid simply because it isn't made by older people.

What I'm saying isn't that the game would be invalid because its not made by older people. I'm saying her lack of experience, the time she actually has to develop which according to that source at 4chan is 1 day, and the sheer amount of names she must type into the credits, well over a thousand, seems like an insurmountable goal for a nine year old. Basically what I was saying is the credits will be longer than the game.

 

[LukeTim]

What I'm saying isn't that the game would be invalid because its not made by older people. I'm saying her lack of experience, the time she actually has to develop which according to that source at 4chan is 1 day, and the sheer amount of names she must type into the credits, well over a thousand, seems like an insurmountable goal for a nine year old. Basically what I was saying is the credits will be longer than the game.

If she's smart about it, she won't have to type all the names... copypasta.

 

[Slavik81]

It's still proof of who gets the help in this country. We don't really think there are an overwhelming number of poor kids getting merit scholarships, do we? The research certainly does not support that conclusion. (As an aside, it also doesn't support minorities getting more than comparable white students).

Class worship.

No, it's not. Proof would be statistical evidence. Last I checked, most money goes to means tested bursaries. Many are predicated on being a member of a particular minority group.

Yes, some merit scholarships do exist. And that's good. They serve as more than just a financial aid. They are recognition for achievement, and an encouragement to continue.

Edit: oh, this is a tad off topic.

 

[Yasae]

I wish my mother was a thousandth this indulgent. That would've been enough.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Cool story. Now read what it says, and consider that egging people to "Keep Up" with your drinking doesn't really make any contextual sense if it's soda.

A phrase on other extremely common merchandising tools is also put on a cozie. Controversy

 

[Ominym]

You know I'm not. Stop trying to pick an eFight.

I really wasn't, hence why I asked a question instead of making a statement.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

http://www.mackenziewilson.com/

I wish I had my own website when I was 9...

Kids these days...

That site is creepy

 

[polyh3dron]

I'll be surprised if this makes it to get funded. Kickstarter's rep is worth more than the 10% they will make from this project.

But what about the PR nightmare they'll have from canning it? "Kickstarter Kills A 9 Year Old Girl's Dream"

 

[MBison]

Wow that website is like one for a 4 year old not a 9 year old who is mature enough to make an RPG game. I have a 9 year old daughter and have been around dozens of her same age friends. Nothing about this rings true.

 

[Portugeezer]

Holy shit, I want to start a kickstarter, call it "woman something something" and rake in the cash.

 

[SapientWolf]

But what about the PR nightmare they'll have from canning it? "Kickstarter Kills A 9 Year Old Girl's Dream"

She gets to go either way.