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[Cyrano]

OP here. I see my anecdotal experience has "stirred some shit" here XD. The intention of my post was to share some perspectives why some people are voting for Trump, and seek discussion about SCA5 specifically.

SCA5 aims to abolish California Proposition 209, and the point of California Proposition 209 is that "the state constitution to prohibit state governmental institutions from considering race, sex, or ethnicity, specifically in the areas of public employment, public contracting, and public education". To me this is the definition of equal opportunity: no racism, sexism etc is allowed at all in admission or employment. And in terms of political position this is quite far on the left, no? So how come a left-wing party in California actively tries to abolish it? And how is it not racism? Shouldn't admission and employment be based on merit and merit alone? Hardship and family background can be fully taken into consideration as merit, regardless of race or sex. That is where I don't understand.

Also, my friends are definitely my anecdotal experience, I was not trying to argue beyond that. But what is not anecdotal though, is the source one of my friends keeps posting on social media. Most of her posts are from Zhihu, a Chinese website that is dedicated to spread expert knowledge and insights into various topics. The website is quite successful at doing so and it is highly regarded among young generation. The website operates as reddit r/ELI5 with top answer as the most upvoted ones. If you go to that website and search for US16 election, you will see many top posters cites various reasons why they are voting for Trump.

For example this post (it is in Chinese, duh) asks the question "If you are a Chinese who have live in the U.S. more than 2 years, who will you vote for?", and all top answers (with hundreds or thousands upvotes) would vote for Trump, citing feel oppressed under the reign of democratic party. The top answer cited various historical evidence to argue that "whenever Chinese people worked very hard to gain an advantage, there will always be a political force trying to eliminate such advantage under the mask of law, tax, or equality". The examples includes the "foreign miner's tax" in 1850 to drive Chinese out of mining industry, "Fisherman's tax" and Scott Act to drive Chinese out of fishing industry, Yick Wo v. Hopkins to drive Chinese out of laundry business, and the most recent ones being SCA5 and AB1726 spun by democratic party.

Who knows, that post and website might be an Trump echo chamber, but I can guarantee it is nothing like r/Donald but the exact opposite. They mostly cite sources when making an argument and most of the time the reasons are sound, at least at the first glance. But the lop-sided answers do however, influence many Chinese voters to "not vote for democrats" in the upcoming election, including my friends and other potential voters who upvoted those answers.

Also I saw someone posted an interesting poll graph. What is the source for that graph? What is the demographics for the poll? Is it from one state or national-wide? And how skewed is the case in California?

Affirmative action would be a problem if admissions processes actually were fair. But if they were, students would also basically never be admitted to school, because the amount of time it would take to actually do a realistic and less-biased assessment, rather than a GPA/SAT score assessment, is absurd. Even now, the admissions process takes too long and that, in addition to admissions practices, is not going to be fixed by repealing a law that has classically helped minorities.

And again, the idea that Trump has any sort of policy for these sorts of issues is equally absurd to believe. Trump is not going to help anyone's educational goals. Also, if there are hundreds of thousands of upvotes for anything Trump related you can bet it's an echo chamber.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

I have no Asian friends and family who are voting trump here in the LA/OC area. I think it's just the people you know OP. I think everyone I know can see the bigger picture rather than just AA for school admissions, something that I'm not even sure how Trump factors in.

 

[jacksnap]

I'm Canadian. No SATs up here.

It is a poor choice of words. Using it, even as a rhetorical smear, runs the risk of people, who may be less discerning in their choice of words, thinking that it's Ok to refer to people of Asian descent as "yellows".

Yo I'd rather have richer writing than care about the "risk" of people who can't read properly doing something inadvertently racist. Even if idiots let slip "browns" (which you seemed to not have caught/cared about).

On topic though if you're Asian and voting for Trump because of AA you're a doubly fucked up bootstrapping asshole who is screwing over other underserved minorities and also future immigrants. Get bent, signed an Asian American in CA.

 

[chillybright]

I did suspect the Chinese OP were referring to were not US citizens, so thanks for clearing that up.

I do wonder if the OP actually has those views himself though. Seems like substantial amount of research just for opinions of his friends.

Some of them are immigrants but they have all acquired citizenship here and are eligible for voting. I was just trying to shed light on the reasons why someone is voting for Trump. Does it matter where they are from? I mean a vote is a vote. I also know about electoral college system in the U.S. so their vote will not matter because it is California. Again I was just providing some perspectives.

My view? It doesn't matter since I am not American so I have no horse in the race. Like most people on earth, I enjoy watching US election as a reality TV show every 4 years and this year it is beyond spicy! I was laughing my ass off when Trump was running Republican primary since I have no idea how this guy ends up there and also has a significant following. And it blew my mind that he actually ended up in the final face off. To be honest I am a little disappointed about this whole leaked lewd comments from Trump. I know he won't possibly actually win the thing but now it is kind of over already, very anti-climatically but expected.

I browse r/politics and off-topic-gaf and can side with these two communities on most political views. So I was as baffled as you guys when some of my friends who I consider quite intellectual vote against Hillary, with actual reasons to back it up. Now whether those reasons are legit or not is debatable as seen in this very thread, but those reasons made them to vote against Hillary is the perspective I would like to share.

As to the "research" you mentioned, I wouldn't call it that unless you call browsing social media and r/ELI5 research. I just don't like OPs that takes quote out of context or not providing enough information to provide a ground for healthy discussion.

So, no, you actually did find the Chinese equivalent of r/Donald here. It's quite amazing. I'd also reevaluate who your friends are if they echo those opinions there.

Good thing you can read Chinese. Could you provide some perspective about the top rated answer? Are those "historical evidence" all true?

Also I have been to r/Donald (and I regret my decision), and calling Zhihu is r/Donald is giving r/Donald wayyyyyyy too much credit. r/Donald is a nazi-like place with posters hail Donald as their dictatorship regardless of his racism and sexism, while top answers in Zhihu are simply voting against Democrats to make their oppressed voice heard.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Seriously even if, for arguments sake we just took as fact that Hillary as president somehow means horrible AA for college admissions in Cali (which it doesn't), it's grimy as hell to vote the person in who has promised he most definitely will disadvantage minorities because you or your children might have a slightly harder time getting into the school of their choice.

Sorry OP but the people you know, at least as far as this point goes, are kinda selfish, shitty pricks.

 

[mieumieu]

Some of them are immigrants but they have all acquired citizenship here and are eligible for voting. I was just trying to shed light on the reasons why someone is voting for Trump. Does it matter where they are from? I mean a vote is a vote. I also know about electoral college system in the U.S. so their vote will not matter because it is California. Again I was just providing some perspectives.

My view? It doesn't matter since I am not American so I have no horse in the race. Like most people on earth, I enjoy watching US election as a reality TV show every 4 years and this year it is beyond spicy! I was laughing my ass off when Trump was running Republican primary since I have no idea how this guy ends up there and also has a significant following. And it blew my mind that he actually ended up in the final face off. To be honest I am a little disappointed about this whole leaked lewd comments from Trump. I know he won't possibly actually win the thing but now it is kind of over already, very anti-climatically but expected.

I browse r/politics and off-topic-gaf and can side with these two communities on most political views. So I was as baffled as you guys when some of my friends who I consider quite intellectual vote against Hillary, with actual reasons to back it up. Now whether those reasons are legit or not is debatable as seen in this very thread, but those reasons made them to vote against Hillary is the perspective I would like to share.

As to the "research" you mentioned, I wouldn't call it that unless you call browsing social media and r/ELI5 research. I just don't like OPs that takes quote out of context or not providing enough information to provide a ground for healthy discussion.



Good thing you can read Chinese. Could you provide some perspective about the top rated answer? Are those "historical evidence" all true?

Also I have been to r/Donald (and I regret my decision), and calling Zhihu is r/Donald is giving r/Donald wayyyyyyy too much credit. r/Donald is a nazi-like place with posters hail Donald as their dictatorship regardless of his racism and sexism, while top answers in Zhihu are simply voting against Democrats to make their oppressed voice heard.

it is time to just accept the fact that a lot of mainland Chinese and immigrants from here are suspected to GOP talking points, racist bait, and bootstrap crap. I know because I quit weibo for the exact reason.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I think a problem is that a lot of people are assuming that just because the Asian kid is doing well and taking AP classes is because he is rich and taking one on one specialty tutoring and that isn't the case, but theyre lumped into the higher income Asian kid. It obviously can't be because they bust their ass studying because they don't wanna be poor anymore like all other poor kids who see that college is the way out. But they get punished.

As a general statement as I said before I think that you'll probably find SAT scores and the such have a pretty large financial component. Access to resources and better means to education normally do boost standardized test scores. I don't think anyone is trying to imply that students don't work hard for their marks regardless.

We don't know if the applicant doesn't do extracurricular actives or involves themselves in the community. They're assed out even if they do.

Not really. The way you're proposing this is that Asian students in general aren't given credit for any of their achievements. They are over represented in a large portion of Universities. Their representation may not solely match their grade based merit but I seriously doubt there is thIs glut of high achieving students with a huge contributions in the extracurricular field that are being passed over. As far as high school is concerned there are not a large portion of students of any race who have huge extracurricular range. The majority of students go to school and come home. And some may have a job. But it isn't like they are all leading the charge in the young entrapeneurs club but then can't get into a state school. So I disagree with the assertation that students who do have amazing extracurriculars are still shut out. Those getting locked out are probably less rounded on paper.

That said my point is that your numerical SAT score and your already subjective "grade" shouldn't be the only thing that dictates entrance into good post secondary schools. There are other important factors at play. That wasn't to imply Asian students don't have those factors. It wasn't to say other races do have those factors either. It was more to imply that admissions are complex because they have several different social and economic factors to account for.

Even then, if we extend merit to encapsulate extracurriculars nothing really changes. The things that AA are meant to protect against don't disappear regardless. You can't have a system like AA and think that everything can also be totally merit based (however you want to describe merit) too. It realistically can't.

 

[Herne]

This is incredibly short-sighted of them.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

OP reads like some weird shit, even after the update.

 

[Erico]

Good thing you can read Chinese. Could you provide some perspective about the top rated answer? Are those "historical evidence" all true?

Also I have been to r/Donald (and I regret my decision), and calling Zhihu is r/Donald is giving r/Donald wayyyyyyy too much credit. r/Donald is a nazi-like place with posters hail Donald as their dictatorship regardless of his racism and sexism, while top answers in Zhihu are simply voting against Democrats to make their oppressed voice heard.

I'm really getting a kick out of that thread, so sure I can give you a summary of the top posts.

1. So the top rated post actually just lists some well known historical injustices against the Chinese in America (like the Exclusion Act), since the poster just read a book about it. There's actually no mention of Trump or Hillary, though he finishes a with a quote from Reagan against affirmative action (he refers to him as the "Great" Reagan).

2. Second highest post apparently is a long winded diatribe about how the Democratic Party is against the middle class. The poster starts off by saying the two groups who support the Democrats are 1) wealthy whites, since Democrats don't raise taxes on the rich, and 2) lower classes since they get welfare.
There's also a great line where the poster says that under the democrats, the racial order would be whites>blacks>latinos>asians
Under the republicans, it'd be whites>>blacks=latinos=asians. Apparently this is preferable since this technically makes Asians tied for 2nd in the racial pecking order. lol

3. Third highest post is the aforementioned crazy Tea Party post (also the longest post in the thread by a mile) consisting of anti BLM, same sex marriage, extreme Islam, gun control, the works. Its completely nuts.

There's a lot more hilarious stuff in that thread, but yeah OP, if your friends dig this stuff, they are crazies.

 

[Cyrano]

There's also a great line where the poster says that under the democrats, the racial order would be whites>blacks>latinos>asians
Under the republicans, it'd be whites>>blacks=latinos=asians. Apparently this is preferable since this technically makes Asians tied for 2nd in the racial pecking order. lol

That is legit weird to read... self-deprecating racism...

 

[Ethranes]

Voting for policies and not personalities? Who are these crazy bastards?

 

[chillybright]

I'm really getting a kick out of that thread, so sure I can give you a summary of the top posts.

1. So the top rated post actually just lists some well known historical injustices against the Chinese in America (like the Exclusion Act), since the poster just read a book about it. There's actually no mention of Trump or Hillary, though he finishes a with a quote from Reagan against affirmative action (he refers to him as the "Great" Reagan).

2. Second highest post apparently is a long winded diatribe about how the Democratic Party is against the middle class. The poster starts off by saying the two groups who support the Democrats are 1) wealthy whites, since Democrats don't raise taxes on the rich, and 2) lower classes since they get welfare.
There's also a great line where the poster says that under the democrats, the racial order would be whites>blacks>latinos>asians
Under the republicans, it'd be whites>>blacks=latinos=asians. Apparently this is preferable since this technically makes Asians tied for 2nd in the racial pecking order. lol

3. Third highest post is the aforementioned crazy Tea Party post (also the longest post in the thread by a mile) consisting of anti BLM, same sex marriage, extreme Islam, gun control, the works. Its completely nuts.

There's a lot more hilarious stuff in that thread, but yeah OP, if your friends dig this stuff, they are crazies.

Yeah that tea party post is crazy. Lmao.

Also thank you for confirming those prejudice acts in the first post. I was too lazy to fact check them.

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

Are your friends also the type to lie on financial forms so their kids get free lunch and college grants despite being more than capable of paying for it? Not sure how widespread this is, but it pisses me off.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I wonder... when people hear the word "Asian", what kind of image it conjures on their minds?

 

[chillybright]

Are your friends also the type to lie on financial forms so their kids get free lunch and college grants despite being more than capable of paying for it? Not sure how widespread this is, but it pisses me off.

I would never know. But most likely a lot of them aren't eligible since they make decent money in tech companies.

There's also a great line where the poster says that under the democrats, the racial order would be whites>blacks>latinos>asians
Under the republicans, it'd be whites>>blacks=latinos=asians. Apparently this is preferable since this technically makes Asians tied for 2nd in the racial pecking order. lol

One of my friend firmly believe that! Is it true? She laid down a very similar equation to me saying this is the grim reality for Asian-Americans and she can only choose the lesser evil.

 

[lightskintwin]

There's also a great line where the poster says that under the democrats, the racial order would be whites>blacks>latinos>asians
Under the republicans, it'd be whites>>blacks=latinos=asians. Apparently this is preferable since this technically makes Asians tied for 2nd in the racial pecking order. lol

I don't understand how within that racial order Blacks are right behind Whites for the Democrats when historically it has always been Whites at the top and Blacks on the bottom with everybody else in between. What metrics are they using to come to that conclusion?

One of my friend firmly believe that! Is it true? She laid down a very similar equation to me saying this is the grim reality for Asian-Americans and she can only choose the lesser evil.

But how? LOL I don't understand how anybody can believe that.

 

[Rentahamster]

I wonder... when people hear the word "Asian", what kind of image it conjures on their minds?

I know avatar quote bait when I see it!

 

[Erico]

One of my friend firmly believe that! Is it true? She laid down a very similar equation to me saying this is the grim reality for Asian-Americans and she can only choose the lesser evil.

Jesus, no, of course it's not true. I mean, my god.
Look man, your friends are real dumbasses, at least when it comes to US politics, and I'm not sure about you anymore, either.
Please stop using their fringe beliefs (which AGAIN, robust statistical evidence shows to not be shared by the majority of actual Chinese Americans) as some type of significant, startling revelation about an
entire people.

Using this as a springboard to discuss affirmative action makes for a very disingenuous opening statement.

I'm seriously getting PTSD here. It's like back in middle school when some random white kid heard that his Chinese friend eats dog or some shit and takes it seriously and repeats it, and for some reason it's now it my responsibility to run a public awareness campaign to prove otherwise. My head hurts.

 

[freeofgreed]

I'm curious there's a lot of talk about overqualified asians getting passed over. But is there any cases of slightly underqualified asians getting in? I.E. an Asian applicant with a perfect score, perfect extra curricular activities getting passed over for an Asian applicant wih a lower SAT score/GPA but better extracurricular/essays.

Said poster is pointing out that anecdotes don't really mean much.

Oh, and that the actions of a few Asian Americans are not representative of Asian Americans as a whole.

Yeah obviously.... Nobody was saying otherwise though. Everyone knows his post wasn't reflective of all asians and people were directly replying to him in the context of his own anecdote.

 

[[boots]]

Most of the Asian American people I know (young and old) in CA are supremely racist so even if there is some validity to their complaint I'm not giving them any sympathy.

Pretty anecdotal example, but pretty much confirms that you're a racist.

It really pisses me off that this quote seems to pop up in every single thread involving Asians. Like we're the only fucking race that has racists. Hate to break it to you but your example doesn't apply to just us. I've been called pretty awful shit by blacks, hispanics and whites while growing up, but I don't go into threads to shit post about how racist they are.

 

[Jintor]

I'm seriously getting PTSD here. It's like back in middle school when some random white kid heard that his Chinese friend eats dog or some shit and takes it seriously and repeats it, and for some reason it's now it my responsibility to run a public awareness campaign to prove otherwise. My head hurts.

lmao

The post on the first page whining about Sydney second-gen chinese taking over every selective school, completely unrelated to this topic about California, was amazing to read as a first-gen asian-australian who went to tutoring in math because it was his worst subject (but did totally infiltrate and take over a selective school)

 

[dramatis]

For example this post (it is in Chinese, duh) asks the question "If you are a Chinese who have live in the U.S. more than 2 years, who will you vote for?", and all top answers (with hundreds or thousands upvotes) would vote for Trump, citing feel oppressed under the reign of democratic party. The top answer cited various historical evidence to argue that "whenever Chinese people worked very hard to gain an advantage, there will always be a political force trying to eliminate such advantage under the mask of law, tax, or equality". The examples includes the "foreign miner's tax" in 1850 to drive Chinese out of mining industry, "Fisherman's tax" and Scott Act to drive Chinese out of fishing industry, Yick Wo v. Hopkins to drive Chinese out of laundry business, and the most recent ones being SCA5 and AB1726 spun by democratic party.

Also thank you for confirming those prejudice acts in the first post. I was too lazy to fact check them.

I think you're missing what is problematic with the thinking of that "history poster" you're citing.

He reads a book on history and now considers himself knowledgeable about the Democratic party. Without citing either Trump's policy positions or Hillary's policy positions, which are the positions of the parties in the present day, these posters declare they "feel oppressed under the reign of the democratic party", with the top answer citing a law from 1850, a law from 1860, and a legislative act from 1888.

We're in 2016.

The Democratic Party of 2016 isn't even the same party it was 50 years ago, much less say 150 years ago. Fifty years ago, the Democrats were the party of the south, until LBJ signed civil rights legislation, then the Republican party saw an opportunity to seize the racist white voting population and thus began their decades-long campaign of dog whistling. The Democrats morphed from southern whites to the diverse coalition of 2016, while the Republicans chased the racist white vote and chained that to the conservative voters until today.

There is a history of discrimination against Asians within the US. But citing events of over a hundred years past to define the character of a party today is intellectually dishonest. Is China still an imperial dynasty, because in 1850 they were? If the top answer wants to denote how the Democratic Party of today is oppressing Chinese, then cite examples from Hillary's policy platform and the legislation of recent years and the present.

Of note, Yick Wo v. Hopkins proves the opposite of what the poster claims. As a court case that went to the Supreme Court:

Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356 (1886), was the first case where the United States Supreme Court ruled that a law that is race-neutral on its face, but is administered in a prejudicial manner, is an infringement of the Equal Protection Clause in the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.​

 

[Damerman]

Yo I'd rather have richer writing than care about the "risk" of people who can't read properly doing something inadvertently racist. Even if idiots let slip "browns" (which you seemed to not have caught/cared about).

On topic though if you're Asian and voting for Trump because of AA you're a doubly fucked up bootstrapping asshole who is screwing over other underserved minorities and also future immigrants. Get bent, signed an Asian American in CA.

jesus. This is murder. S-wind needs to close his account

 

[KonradLaw]

crap. wrong thread. Sorry.