-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NextGen Wheels peripherals PS4 and Xbox One Thread: NeoGaf Wheel Club Updates in OP
- Thread starter amar212
- Start date
Apologies for the double post (although they are almost a week apart..!) but Thrustmaster have just announced the T300RS for the PS4.
From GT Planet
No clutch? WTF?
And what does this mean for legacy support?
From GT Planet
No clutch? WTF?
And what does this mean for legacy support?
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Who thinks we should use the xbox user feedback website to try and get some results regarding XB1 and wheels.
I've created one but perhaps a better wordsmith could take a crack at it.
I've created one but perhaps a better wordsmith could take a crack at it.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Apologies for the double post (although they are almost a week apart..!) but Thrustmaster have just announced the T300RS for the PS4.
From GT Planet
No clutch? WTF?
And what does this mean for legacy support?
So is this based on the TX base, brushless motors and all?
Neuromancer
Member
Looks nice but I think I'll stick with my T500RS.
Big Takeover
Member
TX comparision; the T500 rim for losing the XBO wireless bits. Fair trade, certainly better than nothing.
Nice. I'll get this if I can't find a better one used. Are clutches even important? There's no H-gate, and I prefer sequentials in real life anyway, so I'll be loving the paddles. Thanks for the post, BTW. PEACE.Apologies for the double post (although they are almost a week apart..!) but Thrustmaster have just announced the T300RS for the PS4.
From GT Planet
No clutch? WTF?
And what does this mean for legacy support?
TangoAlphaLima
Member
There's an H-gate shifter add-on for the T500RS (it can also transform into a sequential shifter by installing a different plate).
Betta Lines
Member
It looks like the GTE rim to me...
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Is it a T500 rim? Looks like a modified GTE rim comparing the size to the base.
Oh well there you go.
Big Takeover
Member
Actually looking at it on something other than my phone now, yeah, probably the GTE. Either way, that's a solid upgrade over the 458 rim, as you well know, ds_c.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Not for the T500RS, though. I'd venture to guess that this new T300RS will use practically the same drivers for PS4 as the T500RS.
For every other wheel though, it certainly doesn't help.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
So that Tidux was full of shit then.
Will jump to next gen when the Thrustmaster T700RS GT wheel is released.
Will jump to next gen when the Thrustmaster T700RS GT wheel is released.
With "legacy support" I mean the support for the TouchSense SDK/API wheels, which are basically all HID/FFB wheels supported by PS2/PS3 through last 12 years (Logitech being the main producer and Fanatec, respectfully).
However, as I said 10 times in this thread, I would love to be proven wrong at the end.
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
I need to get one of those to play Drive Club, any more suggestions??Apologies for the double post (although they are almost a week apart..!) but Thrustmaster have just announced the T300RS for the PS4.
From GT Planet
No clutch? WTF?
And what does this mean for legacy support?
drugstore_cowboy
Member
If it's a PS4 version of the TX you'll lose a little of the force feedback strength vs a T500 but gain a faster response and smoother steering. I can feel when the TX motor is under load because there's a faint vibration but it isn't a big deal to a lot of people.
Wouldn't say one wheel is better than the other, just slightly different.
I've had experience on industrial motors with brushes and without, although I'm not sure how it will translate to the steering wheel. Brushless motors are quieter, lighter and smaller for the same torque, while offering more control and longer life due to the fact that it is not reliant on a mechanical method of transferring energy to the moving parts of the motor. A computer replaces the mechanical commutator and brush system.
The disadvantage is like what the Drugstore Cowboy says, the AC current used to move the motor can cause a buzz feeling when at its limits. Kind of like how an old ceiling fan will buzz as it gets up to speed.
I'm not sure how I feel about it used in a wheel. If the feedback was significantly improved I could forgive the less than stellar performance when at its limits.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
You can use Fanatec pedals with an adapter but the guy has stopped production for a while.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
370 with those fuckin' pedals, no clutch and no shifter? No way gtfo
I am going to take a wild guess and say that Thrustmaster has some sort of "timed exclusive" PlayStation license (in addition to immersion BS halting Logitech/Fanatec adoption). Something like, for the first 2 years the PS4 is out, there can only be Thrustmaster FFB wheels for the PS4. This gets them brand recognition for new players and a stronger initial install base for future wheel accessories.
What I do not understand is that if Fanatec and Thrustmaster get the majority of their revenue from FFB wheels (I am assuming), then how does Logitech not see this as a profitable business? There are more console players than ever, more racing games than ever, more simulation games (all system) than ever. Sure there is more competition, but not at the feature set and price point the G27 offers. Not to mention, nearly everyone who had/has a G25/27 likely has a very positive opinion of it. Outside of the immersion license being astronomically high, I still do not get why they backed out.
I am hoping the PS buttons on the new Fanatec rims are a positive sign of things to come, but at the pace Fanatec takes, it could be a long time before we hear anything.
Also, an update on my CSW if anybody cares. I have had to send my base unit in a total of 7 times since I got my first beta unit. A month ago I received my last repaired unit. According to Fanatec, their were issues with a large batch of motors that went into a lot of wheels. Not only would the motors die quickly, they would also loose FFB power quickly (which would cause them to die). My repaired unit has noticeably improved performance. Under extreme FFB load (drifting with max FFB) it takes around 30 consistent minutes of play to notice a drop in FFB. My previous units would fade in less than 10 minutes. It depends on how active you are with the wheel, but under normal driving condition it takes roughly 1hr of driving to notice any FFB. If you drop the FOR setting to 70-80, there is almost no fade. This was not the case for my previous motors. Obviously, we will see if this lasts over time, but at least initially it seems like Fanatec has addressed one of the CSW's main problems.
What I do not understand is that if Fanatec and Thrustmaster get the majority of their revenue from FFB wheels (I am assuming), then how does Logitech not see this as a profitable business? There are more console players than ever, more racing games than ever, more simulation games (all system) than ever. Sure there is more competition, but not at the feature set and price point the G27 offers. Not to mention, nearly everyone who had/has a G25/27 likely has a very positive opinion of it. Outside of the immersion license being astronomically high, I still do not get why they backed out.
I am hoping the PS buttons on the new Fanatec rims are a positive sign of things to come, but at the pace Fanatec takes, it could be a long time before we hear anything.
Also, an update on my CSW if anybody cares. I have had to send my base unit in a total of 7 times since I got my first beta unit. A month ago I received my last repaired unit. According to Fanatec, their were issues with a large batch of motors that went into a lot of wheels. Not only would the motors die quickly, they would also loose FFB power quickly (which would cause them to die). My repaired unit has noticeably improved performance. Under extreme FFB load (drifting with max FFB) it takes around 30 consistent minutes of play to notice a drop in FFB. My previous units would fade in less than 10 minutes. It depends on how active you are with the wheel, but under normal driving condition it takes roughly 1hr of driving to notice any FFB. If you drop the FOR setting to 70-80, there is almost no fade. This was not the case for my previous motors. Obviously, we will see if this lasts over time, but at least initially it seems like Fanatec has addressed one of the CSW's main problems.
That sounds perfectly feasible and highly likely. Hopefully the delay isn't that significant (praying for months, not years) but I doubt Logitech are doing nothing regarding this. My guess is that with them no longer (theoretically) making console gaming peripherals, they don't have the budget to moneyhat any kind of exclusivity like Thrustmaster can.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah. Same with fightsticks, although I guess it's clear those are basically dead now.
Still so so so so glad I was able to nab one of the Thrustmaster 500's when they went on that bananas clearance a few months back...
I'm no elite sim driver by any means...and my DFGT was probably more wheel then I would have ever really needed...but this whole next gen wheel crap makes me very glad I have a Thrustmaster wheel...
I'm no elite sim driver by any means...and my DFGT was probably more wheel then I would have ever really needed...but this whole next gen wheel crap makes me very glad I have a Thrustmaster wheel...
Dzidza1978
Member
i have sold my Fanatec elite and CSP pedals, better safe the sorry. Now i am waitng to see if t500rs will be supported on ps4, and i will buy it.
I'm keeping mine with half an eye on moving over to PC gaming, but there are to many unknown factors to consider at the moment. I'd really like to jump on PS4 but there is no way I'm playing pCARS, Driveclub, GT7 etc with a fucking joypad, and no way I'm spending hundreds of pounds on another wheel.
Fanatec was such a superb soultion last-gen. 360, PS3 and PC support all in a premium package. I didn't mind the expense because of the convenience of being multi-format. No faffing about at all, just plug 'n' play. No hardware swaps, no storage issues. I just can't believe the step backwards the whole scene has taken this gen. It's a fucking minefield.
well, the tx1 works already on xbone and pc, and the interesting thing to watch is if there will be some form of compatibility between the tx1 and the t300rs, which basically seem to be the same wheel
Interesting...
Dzidza1978
Member
Fanatec is suberb, but i given up on expensive wheels. The amount i spend playing games versus cost of high end wheel doesnt justify te purchase, at least for now. When my son grows up, then i'll reconsider, and that will be just in time for new gen consoles
. Hopefuly T500rs will be supported as it doesnt cost that much.drugstore_cowboy
Member
Should have been compensated for all the shit the wheel has given you so far. Sounds like it was out of action more than you've used it.
Hope the new motors last.
Hope the new motors last.
He just sold them (V1)
)We all share the same problems, I have CSRE (beta unit) and CSW, CSP and CSPV2 and I have no damn idea why to do if it really turns out how the future will not be compatible.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
What made you buy a CSW too amar, apart from the lack of 360 compatibility, quick release and extra buttons there's little between it and the CSRE isn't there?
I asked Rushy again about legacy support and he gave me back the same answer of "In the hands of wheel manufacturerers" bullshit.
The new wheel is basically a TX with a GTE rim for PS4. It's fine for what it is I guess but it's pissing me off that Thrustmaster is splitting its skus instead of making one big wheels that works with everything like on the previous gen.
At least you can switch the rims between all those wheels.
Also you can buy an adapter for the T500/TX that lets you use your CSP pedals so I assume it will work with the T300 too.
The new wheel is basically a TX with a GTE rim for PS4. It's fine for what it is I guess but it's pissing me off that Thrustmaster is splitting its skus instead of making one big wheels that works with everything like on the previous gen.
At least you can switch the rims between all those wheels.
Also you can buy an adapter for the T500/TX that lets you use your CSP pedals so I assume it will work with the T300 too.
chrominance
Member
Pretty sad that everyone seems to have given up on the low-but-not-shit end of the wheel market. My DFGT has served me well over the years and I don't really feel like giving it up just because of compatibility issues. It's also keeping me from upgrading to a relatively cheap G27 in case it also turns out to be a dead end. That's not even taking into account the bullshit situation of having to buy TWO wheels if you want to race on both XB1 and PS4, just like 360 and PS3 last gen.
LicenceToK1ll
Member
Ugh no progress................... Logitech doesn't give a fuck about console's anymore it seems.
Dzidza1978
Member
I am getting thrustmaster t500rs since Rushy comfirmed its supported for Driveclub.
Putting my money on there being some exclusivity for Thrusty and not on account of Logitech not doing anything. My guess is they have drivers working, but a gag order of sorts so "official" (paying) partners get dem $$$.
Ugh no progress................... Logitech doesn't give a fuck about console's anymore it seems.
LicenceToK1ll
Member
Anyone have an idea of how much (human)effort is required to write a PS4 G25/G27 driver?
It's not that hard right? They should easily earn it back with the extra G27's it will sell.
It's not that hard right? They should easily earn it back with the extra G27's it will sell.
Drivers are not the issue. Millions in relicensing patents from Immersion Co. are the issue.
Drivers are written a decade ago and they work flawlessly on any platform. But someone has to pay Immersion Co. for usage of their TouchSense software that is inseparatable part of every Logitech's wheel OS.
Who will pay royalties to Immersion Co? And mind you, royalties have to be paid for the overall platform, as we learned from 2006/2007 dispute. And the price was bargain, only 200 million $ in settlement.
Okay, vast part of that settlement was related to usage of Immersion patents for DS2 and DS3 controllers on PS2/PS3, while "wheels" part were included in the overall sum, but we are still talking about dozens of millions.
What part of the OS and hardware uses immersion's IP?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony
Perhaps the Immersion patent to allow Sony use of vibration in the DS4 would also cover it for all other connected peripherals as well. I mean, it would make sense that whatever allows Thrustmaster to use vibration/FFB in their wheels on the PS4 would also allow Logitech to use theirs.
David Ricardo
Member
Wouldnt it be possible to put in the PSN store a "legacy wheel compatibility app"? It could cost 5 dollars and it would mean every person who wanted to use an old wheel would pay for his own Immersion fee.
I would put up with almost anything. I have two logitech wheels that cost me a total of over 400. I wiont buy another wheel for my PS4. If they are made compatible, I will use them. If they are not, then I will sell them and in the future just play with the pad. Well thought, installing the wheel on friday to put it again in the box on sunday wasn't so convenient any way.
I would put up with almost anything. I have two logitech wheels that cost me a total of over 400. I wiont buy another wheel for my PS4. If they are made compatible, I will use them. If they are not, then I will sell them and in the future just play with the pad. Well thought, installing the wheel on friday to put it again in the box on sunday wasn't so convenient any way.
Big Takeover
Member
*whatever = stacks o' cash
It not that simple which is why Sony does things this way. My assumption is that there a distinction between controllers and wheels in the licensing. Sony doesn't include wheel support on the OS level so that they don't have to license every single PS4 for ffb wheels. Too much money for the benefit of so few (way under 1%).
So it's wheel-by-wheel, on a game-by-game basis.
That's why it's all about official wheels, and partnerships. Somebody needs to pay for this stuff. If I had to venture a guess, I say the licensing fee is picked up by the wheel manufacturer in return for "official" status, or some other commercial deal. Maybe in the case of a company like EA, they just pay it to cover all their racing IP.
That makes legacy support super tricky. You know how much the industry loves exclusive deals... It's going to take some leadership from the game side to make sure the bean counters don't win out.
Similar threads
- Poll