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[Neuromancer]

Great idea for a thread, I've been on tenterhooks waiting to find out what wheel to buy for my PS4.

The Thrustmaster T80 looks OK and the price is right, but is it even coming out in the US?

 

[Big Takeover]

I hadn't heard of the T80 until just now. Yeah, that's just a repurposed TM Ferrari GT Experience wheel. Rumble only.

 

[Neuromancer]

I hadn't heard of the T80 until just now. Yeah, that's just a repurposed TM Ferrari GT Experience wheel. Rumble only.

Lame! Must be why it's so cheap.

 

[seattle6418]

This has me worried, i was 100% sure that my six year old G25 would work on PS4. I mean, it´s USB, it should be easy!

I know, i know, but i just don´t want to use fisher price wheels and importing a wheel is very expensive for us brazilians. Despite the crappy brake pedal, i was keeping my G25 until i could upgrade for a proper wireless wheel.

I know why it can´t be done right now, but i expect technology to catch up so we will be able to see proper professional wireless wheels in the future.

Hopefully the situation is set before pCars arrives, since it will be the first racing sim on PS4.

 

[SunhiLegend]

This has me worried, i was 100% sure that my six year old G25 would work on PS4. I mean, it´s USB, it should be easy!

I know, i know, but i just don´t want to use fisher price wheels and importing a wheel is very expensive for us brazilians. Despite the crappy brake pedal, i was keeping my G25 until i could upgrade for a proper wireless wheel.

I know why it can´t be done right now, but i expect technology to catch up so we will be able to see proper professional wireless wheels in the future.

Hopefully the situation is set before pCars arrives, since it will be the first racing sim on PS4.

Same here, I thought for sure the PS4 would be compatible with my G25, but now I'm not confident at all.

I just hope somehow Sony manage to get the Logitech wheels to work with the PS4.

 

[sevanig]

Evoloution did bring out a patch for motorstorm apocalypse that supported my g25.
So they do have the sdk, hopefully Driveclub will come out of the box with support...

 

[Three60]

 

[amar212]

Thank you for this Riba.

I have made some changes to the OP as well.

Wheels are now part of the second post and I have updated the findings about T80 being a rumble wheel - not proper FFB - in its section.

I have also included a few key-information Rushy was kind to share in DriveClub thread regarding compatibility and SDK issues, particularly one information we had no clear confirmation of until now: that PS3-compatible SDK's for wheels are actually not PS4-compatible.

Thanx to everyone for sharing new findings.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Just the fact that they didn't outright say no is really positive since they've already said that they're no longer making console products. Sony should pay them whatever is needed (as long as it's reasonable) in order to get them to release drivers for the PS4.

 

[Foshy]

Try tweeting @Logitech, @LogitechG and @LogitechUK about PS4 support so they see that people care about it. The more requests they get, the better

 

[patchday]

How do you like those wheels?

Both of them are great in their own way. I do prefer the Fanatec load cell pedals tot he T500RS but both are great. Lately, I've been using the T500RS wheel & pedals quite a bit to play Project CARS

 

[op_ivy]

Re' fanatech 360 wheels on one...

re-reading this

"We are also trying hard to protect the investment of our existing customers by making our current products upwards compatible. But we cannot confirm that before the final consoles are released."

really sounds like they have a solution but cant speak of it till sometime in the future. thrustmaster official wheel deal?

 

[Big Takeover]

Re' fanatech 360 wheels on one...

re-reading this

"We are also trying hard to protect the investment of our existing customers by making our current products upwards compatible. But we cannot confirm that before the final consoles are released."

really sounds like they have a solution but cant speak of it till sometime in the future. thrustmaster official wheel deal?

No question gagging him makes 100% sense, but I still wouldn't bet my money on it. The door is open just a crack for a nice surprise however. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to wait until day one when the first guy plugs one in, or they announce a solution.

 

[Big Takeover]

I've seen a few pictures around of the pedals from the prototype Thrustmaster wheel from E3. They're a design that isn't used in any of their other products.... and they've got three pedals. To me, that says the Amazon description of the $400 TM could very well be inaccurate. A clutch may be included after all.

Other people also seem to think this could be redesigned T500 base, with hopefully it's powerful motor included. The "mode" button would indicate invertible pedals too. If there is a clutch, I'd expect the base to accept USB and you could run a TH8RS shifter through that, and have it piped wirelessly to the XO.

This would be the product I really wanted them to make. Hopefully there will be a PS4/PC version with the XO's wireless guts removed and potentially cheaper price (doubtful on the price).

 

[Three60]

Teaser video for that Thrustmaster's Xbone wheel, hopefully more info will come soon..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPZTvSck41A

 

[Big Takeover]

I saw that they updated their own site to also say "metal gas and brake", so any bit of hope I had of a clutch is now gone. The video says "powerful", so T500 internals still seems probable to me. The last thing I'd like to know is even though the rim is straight off their 458 wheel, have they made it detachable/replaceable?

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

I don't mind those cheap rubbery rims, they are usually light and keep the cost down.

Do mind the lack of a clutch pedal, at $400 too. Crazy.

Also spelt 'Powerful' wrong in the ad.

 

[Big Takeover]

Full of many powers! They also call it an "edition", so maybe there'll be others beyond the obvious PS4 version. I'd guess that would probably be the other edition however. With a different rim on it of course. We'll see... or rather wheel see (sorry). Hopefully soon.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Maybe the rim is switchable to an F1 style like the T500. Too early to guess.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

This all sucks - especially since Fanatec's about to release their all-metal Clubsport shifter.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Waited years for that thing.

Heard there's delays now, hoping Thomas is too busy working on a you-know-what instead.

 

[Big Takeover]

Maybe the rim is switchable to an F1 style like the T500. Too early to guess.

I think it would be more of a pain in the ass to engineer the detachable wheel out than to just leave it as is. This has got the same circular connection area and everything. It doesn't make much sense to re-do the connection just to create some differentiation from the T500. I'm sure they'd like to sell a few add-on wheels too, and who knows maybe they'll do a stand alone pedal set eventually.

 

[patchday]

So weird the nextgen consoles are almost upon us (Nov 15 & Nov 22) and we still don't know much bout their wheel compatibility. Lately I've only been doing a little casual PC sim racing. But I'd be interested in maybe giving DriveClub a try with a wheel. Although it's not my full cup of tea (I prefer realistic race tracks like Spa over the trails I keep seeing in their vids)

 

[ElTorro]

So weird the nextgen consoles are almost upon us (Nov 15 & Nov 22) and we still don't know much bout their wheel compatibility.

It's ridiculous. At the moment it is impossible to buy a wheel because nobody knows if there is any wheel that will work with both consoles and PC.

 

[Racer1977]

It's kinda strange, I'm looking around at wheel stands, and don't even know what wheels will work with the PS4!

I no longer own a PS3, but I'm tempted to pick one up just for GT6, BUT, I'll only do this if I can find a quality wheel that's compatible with PS3 & PS4.

 

[Three60]

Another video about TH Xbone wheel >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6W9iRydDHKY

 

[paskowitz]

Another video about TH Xbone wheel >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6W9iRydDHKY

So it's belt driven like Fanatec's wheels?

 

[Polyphony]

This whole wheel situation is the sole reason why I'm holding off on next-gen purchases. Will stick to PC until I get a clear answer, then I will decide.

 

[Big Takeover]

Brushless motor goes beyond what's in the T500, or CSW. Very, very nice.

 

[Three60]

Brushless motor goes beyond what's in the T500, or CSW. Very, very nice.

Didn't know anything about brushless motor so after googling it I found a great post from eKretz over at GTplanet forum explaining it >

For the guy wondering about brushless motor benefits: you basically change the motor around internally so the power switching occurs electronically rather than through a mechanical interface (brushes and commutator). The center armature becomes the permanent magnet instead, and the armature windings move to the motor can. This makes the windings a lot easier to cool, especially with the copper coil wound 'round the can and water cooling. You get no brushes or comm to wear, no debris from the wear, no arcing, much more precise and variable speed motor control. On the negative side, sometimes the brushless motors have less stall torque than their brushed counterparts, but this problem can be solved/mitigated with proper design tweaks. Aside from that, the motor control requires considerably more sophistication also. One can't just take out a brushed motor and drop in a brushless, in other words, without changing the motor controller.

The main advantages for sim wheels would be the removal of comm and brush wear issues, but the easier cooling would be good too.

http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8801162#post8801162

Hopefully next version of T500 will have this motor in it..

 

[Big Takeover]

Didn't know anything about brushless motor so after googling it I found a great post from eKretz over at GTplanet forum explaining it >



http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8801162#post8801162

Hopefully next version of T500 will have this motor in it..

Nice.

I suspect it's included primarily because it runs cooler, but obviously the other benefits are more than welcome too. Fan issues, and cooked PCBs seemed to plague the T500, at least the early runs of them.

(T500) Oh I'm sure it will. I'm just wondering how many different models they'll do. I think they'll have to do a $400 PS4 version like the XO one (minus the proprietary wireless), but will that have two pedals as well?

A T500 replacement for $700 with either the F1, big diameter, or 458 wheel included, and maybe a load cell brake. I'm not sure it makes a ton of sense to do a $600 package any more...

Wheels, pedals, and TH8RS shifter all sold independently, and daisy chainable with the base would be nice as well.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

That would sting like a bitch as I can't afford or spare the room for another wheel which is why the Fanatec was a godsend.

This new wheel does appear to be far better than I gave it credit for and man does that hurt.

 

[Big Takeover]

That would sting like a bitch as I can't afford or spare the room for another wheel which is why the Fanatec was a godsend.

This new wheel does appear to be far better than I gave it credit for and man does that hurt.

Well if it's any help, the resale value is still exceptionally high on G27s on up through Fanatec's stuff and T500s. However, the market could well flood if it goes pear shaped with these nextgen consoles.

I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it if PC use is your primary thing.

 

[soundscream]

Thomas posted a slightly disturbing message on the 911 wheel blog regarding Fanatec wheels on both next gen platforms.

Submitted by Thomas on Mon, 09/09/2013 - 15:43.

"I have a clear vision of what the ideal wheel looks like and how it should work with consoles.

The direction the platfrom (sic) holders are taking at the moment is concerning me and I wonder how consumer friendly their concepts really are.

It is better for us if we first watch carefully what is possible and how we can fully exploit the potential of the new platforms. This will pay off later and I will leave the current buzz to others."

:/

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Either Thomas' vision for a single wheel for all platforms is hurting his ability to obtain licences or Thrustmaster and Madcatz have a launch exclusivity deal in place.

Hopefully we won't have to wait much longer to find out but at least Thomas is doing his best to get it sorted out.

Edit: rereading I really hope it's not implying clutch and shifter has been axed, nobody has yet confirmed they will function.

 

[soundscream]

Either Thomas' vision for a single wheel for all platforms is hurting his ability to obtain licences or Thrustmaster and Madcatz have a launch exclusivity deal in place.

Hopefully we won't have to wait much longer to find out but at least Thomas is doing his best to get it sorted out.

Edit: rereading I really hope it's not implying clutch and shifter has been axed, nobody has yet confirmed they will function.

I think its the latter. The only way I would buy a new wheel is if it supported all platforms.

Do either of the announced wheels even support PC? I don't think so. I would never drop more than $200 for a single platform peripheral.

 

[Megasoum]

Great topic. I just tweeted Logitech and LogitechG to ask too. I don't expect them to give me any new info but if enough people do it they might get the message.

I want my CSR to work on the PS4!

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Do either of the announced wheels even support PC? I don't think so. I would never drop more than $200 for a single platform peripheral.

Doubt it, not for a while any way.

MS promised the wireless Xbox ffb wheel would be supported on PC and afaik the force feedback was never fixed.

 

[Neuromancer]

I just want to know what wheel to buy for my PS4, damn it! Why are they making it so hard?

 

[Big Takeover]

Doubt it, not for a while any way.

MS promised the wireless Xbox ffb wheel would be supported on PC and afaik the force feedback was never fixed.

Well that's not good news from Thomas. It sounds like everything is shelved for the time being.

I've always assumed at the very least the Thrustmaster wheel would have usb... now I'm starting to wonder if that was premature on my part. Ugh, I think I'm going to puke. If that's what actually happens, fuck that shit til the cows come home. I won't be able to pack my bags quick enough.

It sounds like Sony could fuck this up too, but at least they can't lock you out of the PC.

 

[amar212]

I just want to know what wheel to buy for my PS4, damn it! Why are they making it so hard?

Agreed.

At this point my only hope is influence of Polyphony Digital. If Kazunori wants to have legacy-standard support on PS4 for GT7, he is the only one who can influence Yoshida and Hirai to make it happen. The recent talks from Rushy - and he is the only one talking at least something about support - are not doing much in clearing the confusion.

Problem is if someone is already making a new standard in veins of TouchSense - which is already more than 13 years old - that will provide with much greater frequencies and other haptic/FFB possibilities. Also, maybe both Sony and Microsoft are fed enough with paying Immersion Co. with the royalties for licensing TouchSense in both controllers and consoles and they looking to move away from it (all PSone/PS2 and PS3 controllers with rumble features and both Xbox and X360 controllers are actually using Immersion Co, patents). And new generation could offer them a fresh start.

With Logitech out of mass-market, the actual availability of the wheels as peripherals has drastically shrinked (shrunk?). Only few years ago anyone in even mid-developed countries could go into the first supermarket and come out with either DFP/DFGT or go into the nearest tech-store and come out with G25/G27. With logitech out, the wheel market has drastically changed. Thrustmaster T500RS can't be compared with those wheels, solely because of the price. There is no "impulse buy" for something that costs 400€, opposite to 200€ for DFP back in 2004, for instance. Also, shelf-presence of T500RS is non-existant compared to Logitech models in the past.

I don't know. There is so much to lose for many, many, many people if next-gen (particularly PS platform) will not support legacy-standards.

If that happens, it will take many years to re-establish the same saturation with the wheels and one serious part of drivers generation could be lost in the process, simply because people will not be in situation to justify the purchase of new standard with already hundreds (and thousands) spent on products bought simply because it was "logical" to think they will span over at least one more generation.

 

[Big Takeover]

Agreed.

At this point my only hope is influence of Polyphony Digital. If Kazunori wants to have legacy-standard support on PS4 for GT7, he is the only one who can influence Yoshida and Hirai to make it happen. The recent talks from Rushy - and he is the only one talking at least something about support - are not doing much in clearing the confusion.

Problem is if someone is already making a new standard in veins of TouchSense - which is already more than 13 years old - that will provide with much greater frequencies and other haptic/FFB possibilities. Also, maybe both Sony and Microsoft are fed enough with paying Immersion Co. with the royalties for licensing TouchSense in both controllers and consoles and they looking to move away from it (all PSone/PS2 and PS3 controllers with rumble features and both Xbox and X360 controllers are actually using Immersion Co, patents). And new generation could offer them a fresh start.

With Logitech out of mass-market, the actual availability of the wheels as peripherals has drastically shrinked (shrunk?). Only few years ago anyone in even mid-developed countries could go into the first supermarket and come out with either DFP/DFGT or go into the nearest tech-store and come out with G25/G27. With logitech out, the wheel market has drastically changed. Thrustmaster T500RS can't be compared with those wheels, solely because of the price. There is no "impulse buy" for something that costs 400€, opposite to 200€ for DFP back in 2004, for instance. Also, shelf-presence of T500RS is non-existant compared to Logitech models in the past.

I don't know. There is so much to lose for many, many, many people if next-gen (particularly PS platform) will not support legacy-standards.

If that happens, it will take many years to re-establish the same saturation with the wheels and one serious part of drivers generation could be lost in the process, simply because people will not be in situation to justify the purchase of new standard with already hundreds (and thousands) spent on products bought simply because it was "logical" to think they will span over at least one more generation.

I don't think there's any question that's the case, and I understand platform holders desire to move on from that. I really do. They should have worked together though, and the fallout of not doing so could be massive.

We'll see if either one of them makes any attempt at accommodating PC users. I'm certain Microsoft will bring a wireless dongle to PC, but will the API be usable/affordable enough (I guess this will be built right into W8 / not sure how this actually works) to gain traction in the PC market? Sony, if they are doing something different, would have to provide tools for the PC market as well otherwise they're entirely proprietary.

I've tried keeping positive about all of this, but there's no denying the future of wheels could look like this:

- Legacy & PC only
- PS4 only
- XO only

...and their paths will never cross.

What a blow to sims and driving games that would be.

 

[Megasoum]

I don't think there's any question that's the case, and I understand platform holders desire to move on from that. I really do. They should have worked together though, and the fallout of not doing so could be massive.

We'll see if either one of them makes any attempt at accommodating PC users. I'm certain Microsoft will bring a wireless dongle to PC, but will the API be usable/affordable enough (I guess this will be built right into W8 / not sure how this actually works) to gain traction in the PC market? Sony, if they are doing something different, would have to provide tools for the PC market as well otherwise they're entirely proprietary.

I've tried keeping positive about all of this, but there's no denying the future of wheels could look like this:

- Legacy & PC only
- PS4 only
- XO only

...and their paths will never cross.

What a blow to sims and driving games that would be.

There won't be a dongle for XB1 since all the controllers are both Wired and Wireless. But yeah, still agree with you heh.

 

[Big Takeover]

There won't be a dongle for XB1 since all the controllers are both Wired and Wireless. But yeah, still agree with you heh.

I thought you were high but then I looked and saw that there is some kind of "wired mode" for XO stuff. I hadn't heard of that. Very interesting even if it is XID-only.

 

[Three60]

So it's belt driven like Fanatec's wheels?

New video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAY9aROwjlA

 

[QaaQer]

- Legacy & PC only
- PS4 only
- XO only

...and their paths will never cross.

What a blow to sims and driving games that would be.

Such bullshit.

I am ready to pull the trigger on a nice $5-$700 setup. But if it is limited to a single platform and possibly a single generation...I doubt I'm going to get one, seems like a big waste of money.

& just so I'm clear, this has to do with MS and Sony wanting money from the wheel manufacturers or they won't allow their wheels on the console, right?

 

[Big Takeover]

Such bullshit.

I am ready to pull the trigger on a nice $5-$700 setup. But if it is limited to a single platform and possibly a single generation...I doubt I'm going to get one, seems like a big waste of money.

& just so I'm clear, this has to do with MS and Sony wanting money from the wheel manufacturers or they won't allow their wheels on the console, right?

It's both technical and business, but the end result is ultimately the same.

The picture is still unclear, so obviously wait and see how it plays out over the next few months.

 

[New002]

There were a few times last gen where I almost caved and picked up a 360 Fanatec wheel + pedals and I guess I'm glad I didn't if they aren't going to be compatible with the Xbox One. I always thought it sucked that the PS3 could recognize a standard USB but the 360 could not. What I do have is several arcade sticks, so I feel the pain.

 

[2SeeKU]

That Mad Catz wheel looks awesome! Wonder if it'll work on PC too?

 

[Megasoum]

So I just took that picture at my local Futureshop in Montréal.

Looks like they are still making the wheels if they updated the packaging to match the other "Logitech Gaming" products.

I know that the "wheel" departement has been closed at Logitech but I thought they also stopped manufacturing the wheels at the same time.

They wouldn't update the packaging on old wheels sitting in the warehouse.