Pancakes R Us
Member
Agreed. These stubborn old men at NCL need a proper reality check. Their dinosaur ways are not the answer.
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Nintendo FY14 Q1: 0.82M 3DS, 0.51M Wii U, MK8 2.82M shipped, 10 billion yen loss
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Besides the nerd rage it´s affect on sales performance is insignificant, WiiUs real problems are that they don´t benefit from the highly marketed and hyped games from 3rd parties and its hardware. Also in general it´s a very hypocritical and also artificial problem in my opinion, there are even some more offensive drawbacks on other systems when it comes to digital content for example WiiU is the only system you can transfer all your digital content/purchases and games from the previous gen system, while you basically have no access on PS4 and Xone of your previous PS3 and 360 content. But having no access to your content seems to be less of an issue among biased fans.
This is true. I had so many digital games on my PS3 and none of them are now on my PS4. It does tick me off. I'm talking mostly ps1 games mind you. I'm told to just keep my PS3. Umm no thanks. Sure for now I don't mind but I don't want to have to keep the PS3 hooked up indefinitely. I do see it as a problem personally when I don't want to repurchase all of those games. So yeah, Nintendo does do some things right. That being said, what they do wrong compared to the other two is enough for me to want to avoid the Wii U. The Wii U is for the occasional Nintendo game. I'll use a PS4 or Xbox One for anything else. That's a problem if most people think that way. $300 for a Nintendo game machine is a lot of money.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
saying you're going to change things =! actually changing things
Things don't change overnight.
at this point, where there will probably be four years of consecutive losses, the next big plans have to be really really profitable. amiibos, qol, and new hardware really need to all at least make their money back, because plan b is not a fun one. 2014-2015 is really the final year of change taking place and the rollout of the first big project meant to turn things around.
nintendo really should have been doing this restructuring shit in 2008-2010 when they weren't also launching two new hardware platforms. i know that ead had just reorganized itself, but it's small fries compared to how the company could have grown in that period.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Which is the huge problem with Nintendo being a giant slow moving corporation. This is what lead to Sony being in trouble, and they had to go through pain but came out the other end with the PS4. Nintendo quite simply aren't making the radical moves Sony did during the PS3's tenure with their WiiU. Hell, look at the swerves and moves MS made to salvage the Xbone this past year. A faster launching WiiU just isn't on the same level.
Worse still, they refuse to shift their position on things like region locking and even suggesting they "cant" instigate an account system for current gen is bizarre and indicative of a software group ten years behind their peers. Promising "change" in the next 2 years for their new platforms is the perfect example of just how out of touch and in need of radical, swift changes the Nintendo corporate structure is.
Theyre also hurting right now because Iwata made himself the be all and end all of the company through cult of personality Directs and Asks, that him being knocked out by illness results in what looks like a rudderless ship adrift during disasters like this report. This illness has certainly helped him in a weird way though, as he gets to avoid questioning for another quarter again. If Amiibo flops (and since the WiiU isnt showing signs of suddenly exploding and thus creating a big selling platform for them its all on the most hardcores shoulders), what questions will Investors being asking next meeting? If we havent heard anything about QoL by TGS, thats something that doesnt seem to be developing as smoothly as lined out in January.
Yes how "convenient" that iwata got sick, right? Good god man
I think Microsoft has shown that this is not necessarily true. They did a complete 180 on their console relatively quickly. Granted, this was mostly before the console was launched. But it does show that things can be changed quickly if there is money and necessity driving said changes.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Hey, its a terrible thing that he got what he did, but it really kinda happened at the best possible time for him. At no point in any text have I suggested its a fake illness, so you can take that line of argument trying to shoot me down right out the bag.
Edit: Boy does it get tedious having people invent things that aren't even in my text. Happens time and time again in these sorts of threads and its really pissing me off.
Come the fuck on dude. He didn't decide to get ill and I'm pretty certain he wished to be there for the investor meetings.
Father_Brain
Banned
Nintendo doesn't normally have a Q&A session for their Q1 results anyway.
Robottiimu2000
Member
Indeed.
probably looking to make it easier for backwards compatability in the future too. none of this restarting from scratch for the vc crap they're doing now.
About what's being discussed by shinra's clone and MrNyarlathotep:
Does the current situation reflect what customers want to pay for mobile games right now? Yes.
Is the current situation also a consequence of how much the race to the bottom influenced customer's thinking of the value of a game? I'd say yes too.
What I mean is that, years ago, people were fine with paying 49.99 for Wii Sports Resort and similar titles, because they thought that value was adequate for what the title was offering. But now, they'll prefer much more it being free to play. And a big part of that is on how much the mobile market has developed towars the f2p, 0.99 at max experiences: the market made those customers change their thinking, from "49.99 is okay for that" to "naaah, it has to be free, otherwise I'll ignore it completely".
Radical changes in customers' behaviour are always a tango with two dancers: the customers themselves, who, while accepting some standards, would like to spend as less as possible for anything, and the market itself that creates the standards and influence people's line of thinking about things. Now, the mobile market went straight to the extreme and in the most deep ways possible into the lowest limit possible: price of zero. You can't go under that, it's impossible. And this has made lots of customers think that 0 is an acceptable price for way too many genres, too many games, while it's not sustainable, if not for just a few of them who strike gold.
Are f2p themselves the evil of the world? No, they can be successful without basing themselves on whales, and there's nothing wrong about the concept itself. It's the abuse that we've seen in these past years that's contitioned people and that, right now, allows for a very, very limited amount of paid game apps to be successful in the space. And most of them have to be from reknown developers / being promoted in a good way, otherwise...they're lost. Unfortunately, there should have been some moderation about amount, type and content of f2p mechanics, while giving to companies enough freedom on the matter. You know, the right in-between, one of the most difficult things to find in the universe, which I feel has to be applied in specific contexts, especially when they explode, in order to create the correct environment where, then, such "limitations" can be removed one at one (still carefully) because the environment has a solid base / culture.
Heck, just look at how many apps that are some way to spend 5 minutes and then being abandoned forever are on the store: they're not bad per se, but the massive amount has made people believe that mobile devices could be used just for them as a gaming machine, and not much else. You see? Another example of customers' will matching market reality, but being influenced by market reality as well, being conditioned by that to have a specific belief. Which is something Wii suffered as well, even if not in such a dramatic way (still heavily, but not as dramatic).
To start a perspective change, you need to start going in a different direction of where you are going now, to stop just giving customers what they express they want, and to start giving them also things that maybe they weren't aware of, but that, suddenly, become great for them and very interesting. Unfortunately, also due to touch only interfaces, I fear it's too late for mobile devices: again, they went straight and too quickly to the lowest value possible for way too many apps, to being a collection of thousands and thousands of 5 minutes things with some different attempts, some of them still successful, but many others being failures.
So, yeah, to extremely sum up, it's due to customers, but it's also due to the market itself convincing customers that's the way and there almost isn't another way, race to the level 0.
Does the current situation reflect what customers want to pay for mobile games right now? Yes.
Is the current situation also a consequence of how much the race to the bottom influenced customer's thinking of the value of a game? I'd say yes too.
What I mean is that, years ago, people were fine with paying 49.99 for Wii Sports Resort and similar titles, because they thought that value was adequate for what the title was offering. But now, they'll prefer much more it being free to play. And a big part of that is on how much the mobile market has developed towars the f2p, 0.99 at max experiences: the market made those customers change their thinking, from "49.99 is okay for that" to "naaah, it has to be free, otherwise I'll ignore it completely".
Radical changes in customers' behaviour are always a tango with two dancers: the customers themselves, who, while accepting some standards, would like to spend as less as possible for anything, and the market itself that creates the standards and influence people's line of thinking about things. Now, the mobile market went straight to the extreme and in the most deep ways possible into the lowest limit possible: price of zero. You can't go under that, it's impossible. And this has made lots of customers think that 0 is an acceptable price for way too many genres, too many games, while it's not sustainable, if not for just a few of them who strike gold.
Are f2p themselves the evil of the world? No, they can be successful without basing themselves on whales, and there's nothing wrong about the concept itself. It's the abuse that we've seen in these past years that's contitioned people and that, right now, allows for a very, very limited amount of paid game apps to be successful in the space. And most of them have to be from reknown developers / being promoted in a good way, otherwise...they're lost. Unfortunately, there should have been some moderation about amount, type and content of f2p mechanics, while giving to companies enough freedom on the matter. You know, the right in-between, one of the most difficult things to find in the universe, which I feel has to be applied in specific contexts, especially when they explode, in order to create the correct environment where, then, such "limitations" can be removed one at one (still carefully) because the environment has a solid base / culture.
Heck, just look at how many apps that are some way to spend 5 minutes and then being abandoned forever are on the store: they're not bad per se, but the massive amount has made people believe that mobile devices could be used just for them as a gaming machine, and not much else. You see? Another example of customers' will matching market reality, but being influenced by market reality as well, being conditioned by that to have a specific belief. Which is something Wii suffered as well, even if not in such a dramatic way (still heavily, but not as dramatic).
To start a perspective change, you need to start going in a different direction of where you are going now, to stop just giving customers what they express they want, and to start giving them also things that maybe they weren't aware of, but that, suddenly, become great for them and very interesting. Unfortunately, also due to touch only interfaces, I fear it's too late for mobile devices: again, they went straight and too quickly to the lowest value possible for way too many apps, to being a collection of thousands and thousands of 5 minutes things with some different attempts, some of them still successful, but many others being failures.
So, yeah, to extremely sum up, it's due to customers, but it's also due to the market itself convincing customers that's the way and there almost isn't another way, race to the level 0.
I see, I thought they were going to make something like Vita/Vita TV.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Coherent walled gardens create brand loyalty, which Nintendo could use right now. It's probably already too late.
Now that both Nintendo consoles are selling less than projected/desired and getting less third party games, could a PC-like setup work? I mean, PC games can run with different graphics settings, the next cycle of Nintendo consoles will share the same architecture, so the handheld could be a miniaturised/less powerful version of the console, ditching 3D and the second screen, which may help compensate the costs for more power/battery and keeping the clamshell form factor (like a GBA SP) or slide up the screen (like a PSP Go) for better portability.
The console would be digital only (yes they need to sort out all the account policies first). Without a disc drive it would consume less power, make less noise and reduce the size, because this console would be with few exceptions a Nintendo only machine, which optimize like crazy its games, so the file sizes will not make much dent in the storage, and being a Nintendo only machine the costs must be kept down.
Both will still have their own exclusive titles, Pokemon being a good example, but they will share key titles like SM3D Land/World, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, NSMB, DKCR (which are in both current platforms) the same way MH3U is, meaning cross-play/save between them.
If everything fails and they have to quit the hardware business, they could move to PC, with emphasis in gameplay instead of graphics their games could run in less powerful rigs, so more people will be able to play them and setup their own Steam, they have a giant catalog of games to sell.
This is my 2 cents, I just want to keep playing Nintendo games and will probably follow them wherever they go.
The console would be digital only (yes they need to sort out all the account policies first). Without a disc drive it would consume less power, make less noise and reduce the size, because this console would be with few exceptions a Nintendo only machine, which optimize like crazy its games, so the file sizes will not make much dent in the storage, and being a Nintendo only machine the costs must be kept down.
Both will still have their own exclusive titles, Pokemon being a good example, but they will share key titles like SM3D Land/World, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, NSMB, DKCR (which are in both current platforms) the same way MH3U is, meaning cross-play/save between them.
If everything fails and they have to quit the hardware business, they could move to PC, with emphasis in gameplay instead of graphics their games could run in less powerful rigs, so more people will be able to play them and setup their own Steam, they have a giant catalog of games to sell.
This is my 2 cents, I just want to keep playing Nintendo games and will probably follow them wherever they go.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Market forces tend to correct unsustainable markets (which I believe mobile to be currently, for reasons explained), and you can already see upwards price pressure beginning to appear;
- legislative pressure: unethical F2P titles that mostly focussed on ripping off kids unbeknownst to parents have caused law makers to get involved, and it becomes harder to call your game "FREE!*" when you are mandated to show the average cost of completion or whatever to explain exactly how your title is not "free" every time you claim that it is
- reduction of supply: the more game makers who cannot turn a profit on mobile and leave, leads to investor uncertainty, leads to it being harder to get into the market for new startups winging it on vague "mobile = millions, yo" business plans.
The dot-com bubble bursting was the best thing that ever happened to things like ecommerce, by clearing out swathes of "make website = millions, yo" sites with no real purpose, and all the shady early internet get rich quick schemers tactics like aggregated search redirects and domain squatting.
- gatekeeper pressure: Apple themselves know the mobile market is unsustainable now, and are pushing for games to release at higher prices to try and repair things (and their cut of a higher purchase price is obviously better for them)
Nintendo don't particularly want to be a Nintendo games only platform, and their business strategy is reliant on being platform owners, not platform producers.
Metal Gear?!
Member
If Nintendo won't do it...
http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/8/5982367/micromon-ios-pokemon
Micromon, the #1 paid app in the iOS App Store, bears a striking resemblance to Nintendo's Pokémon franchise.
Released July 31, the developers at Pocket Trend describe the $0.99 universal app for iPad and iPhone as a "Fully animated monster catching game." In the role-playing game, "tamers" explore the game's world, capture and evolve more than 130 monsters and "Challenge other tamers to become the best!" The gameplay and graphics bear more than a passing resemblance to the Pokémon formula, where "trainers" capture and train their pocket monsters and battle Pokémon masters.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/8/5982367/micromon-ios-pokemon
Micromon, the #1 paid app in the iOS App Store, bears a striking resemblance to Nintendo's Pokémon franchise.
Released July 31, the developers at Pocket Trend describe the $0.99 universal app for iPad and iPhone as a "Fully animated monster catching game." In the role-playing game, "tamers" explore the game's world, capture and evolve more than 130 monsters and "Challenge other tamers to become the best!" The gameplay and graphics bear more than a passing resemblance to the Pokémon formula, where "trainers" capture and train their pocket monsters and battle Pokémon masters.