titiklabingapat
Member
FWIW, it will get a "mainline" Tales game.
But then again, it's NB.
But then again, it's NB.
sphinx said:It's been proved time and again why Wii won't get the support, there are lots of reasons. There is that thread made by pantherlotus about why wii won't get the support, go read that.
I won't go all over again repeating what's been said time and again for over a year about why the Wii will not be a DS. I'll just repeat something:
.- Western devs hate it.
.- Japanese devs don't trust it.
.- both think only casual shit sells.
and these facts remain valid no matter how many billions the Wii sells worldwide.
at best, we will get the toned done spin-off like RE:UC as an experiment in reaching new audiences. Anyone expecting the mainline games or the big new hyped IP's like Assasins Creed or similar to suddenly come to Wii is in for a rude awakening.
titiklabingapat said:FWIW, it will get a "mainline" Tales game.
But then again, it's NB.
25 million and 28 million respectively. So increased 1.5 million for Wii and 2.5 million for DS.JoshuaJSlone said:What did they project previously?
sphinx said:It's been proved time and again why Wii won't get the support, there are lots of reasons. There is that thread made by pantherlotus about why wii won't get the support, go read that.
I won't go all over again repeating what's been said time and again for over a year about why the Wii will not be a DS. I'll just repeat something:
.- Western devs hate it.
.- Japanese devs don't trust it.
.- both think only casual shit sells.
and these facts remain valid no matter how many billions the Wii sells worldwide.
at best, we will get the toned done spin-off like RE:UC as an experiment in reaching new audiences. Anyone expecting the mainline games or the big new hyped IP's like Assasins Creed or similar to suddenly come to Wii is in for a rude awakening.
sphinx said:.- Japanese devs don't trust it.
Buggy Loop said::lol
I heard all that shit for DS years ago too, PSP was gonna get all the hardcore games while DS would only get touch gimmicks.
You work in the industry? Who are you to claim western devs hate it or that japanese devs dont trust it?
Buggy Loop said::lol
I heard all that shit for DS years ago too, PSP was gonna get all the hardcore games while DS would only get touch gimmicks.
You work in the industry? Who are you to claim western devs hate it or that japanese devs dont trust it?
TunaLover said:monster hunter 3
sphinx said:this is getting creepy. All this past months, we have had countless " Wii and 3rd parties " threads. At one point, people started complaining in the threads that there were too many about the same issue.
In said threads we had the chance to read the insights and opinions of people that are in the industry, mostly american devs. ALL of them either were open admitting they hate the wii or that they don't think anything besides carnival games and similar sell there. All agreed that hardcore games support being switched from PS360 to Wii will NOT HAPPEN not now, not after 23568723682746 billions fo wii solds in Earth, Mars and Venus.
Japanese devs simply don't care about home consoles, they are content to support the handhelds. Game announcements and sales clearly show this. konami gives you the kiddie stuff, Square gives you the mid-budget spinnoff, capcom gives you the zack and wiki.
yeah, won by moneyhat by nintendo.
sphinx said:.- Western devs hate it.
sphinx said:yeah, won by moneyhat by nintendo.
It's been getting consistently better all year, I hate list wars but:sphinx said:yeah, won by moneyhat by nintendo.
I don't know what people like you expect, Nintendo's coming off the GC, the Gamecube, give this list to a circa '06 Nintendo fan and they'd wet themselves, everyone else would of called you crazy. And it's only gonna get better.Rune Factory Frontier
Tecmo Bowl
Tenchu 4
House of the Dead: Overkill
Sky Crawlers
Fragile
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
Little King's Story
MadWorld
Monster Hunter 3
Oboro Muramasa Youtuden
Crystal Bearers
Samba Di Amiga
Arc Rise Fantasia
Shiren 3
Kizuna
Dead Rising
Sword of Legendia
Tales "Mothership" '09
Fatal Frame IV
sphinx said:It's been proved time and again why Wii won't get the support, there are lots of reasons. There is that thread made by pantherlotus about why wii won't get the support, go read that.
I won't go all over again repeating what's been said time and again for over a year about why the Wii will not be a DS. I'll just repeat something:
.- Western devs hate it.
.- Japanese devs don't trust it.
.- both think only casual shit sells.
and these facts remain valid no matter how many billions the Wii sells worldwide.
at best, we will get the toned done spin-off like RE:UC as an experiment in reaching new audiences. Anyone expecting the mainline games or the big new hyped IP's like Assasins Creed or similar to suddenly come to Wii is in for a rude awakening.
sphinx said:It's been proved time and again why Wii won't get the support, there are lots of reasons. There is that thread made by pantherlotus about why wii won't get the support, go read that.
I won't go all over again repeating what's been said time and again for over a year about why the Wii will not be a DS. I'll just repeat something:
.- Western devs hate it.
.- Japanese devs don't trust it.
.- both think only casual shit sells.
and these facts remain valid no matter how many billions the Wii sells worldwide.
at best, we will get the toned done spin-off like RE:UC as an experiment in reaching new audiences. Anyone expecting the mainline games or the big new hyped IP's like Assasins Creed or similar to suddenly come to Wii is in for a rude awakening.
weisheit said:Rune Factory Frontier
Tecmo Bowl
Tenchu 4
House of the Dead: Overkill
Sky Crawlers
Fragile
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
Little King's Story
MadWorld
Monster Hunter 3
Oboro Muramasa Youtuden
Crystal Bearers
Samba Di Amiga
Arc Rise Fantasia
Shiren 3
Kizuna
Dead Rising
Sword of Legendia
Tales "Mothership" '09
Fatal Frame IV
Nintendo haters do not comprehend truths and facts.Flakster99 said:We have a sales archive, use it and brush up on the DS and it's initial years on the market (US, JPN) 1st party and 3rd party wise.
About the Wii and it's "serious support" outlook, I think it's time you get with the times:
- High Voltage Software have 3 WiiWare titles, 2 of which have yet to be released but look very promising in Gyrostarr and Animales de la Muerte.
They also have 3 Wii titles in development, with The Conduit being the first.
- EA (I do not have the link handy) have recently announced 40 titles are in development for the Wii/DS - have also praised and came to terms with the Wii and it's software pushing capabilities, it's massive, growing user-base, were also disappointed in their own failures to capture/foresee the success of the Wii. Time will tell, but the ball is in EA's court.
- Sega have picked up Madworld, a new exclusive House of the Dead is in the works, an exclusive Wii Sonic title, Samba di Amigo, on top of successes such as M & S Olympics.
Here's one of my less-often-pointed-to comparison things. Through 52 weeks of each, Wii third party software stood up well to DS. However, DS got quite ahead in the ensuing holiday seasons, while none of the third party Wii releases did much. Through week 70 DS has a pretty clear lead, and through week 90, the present for Wii, DS is even more ahead.Flakster99 said:We have a sales archive, use it and brush up on the DS and it's initial years on the market (US, JPN) 1st party and 3rd party wise.
Flakster99 said:We have a sales archive, use it and brush up on the DS and it's initial years on the market (US, JPN) 1st party and 3rd party wise.
About the Wii and it's "serious support" outlook, I think it's time you get with the times:
- High Voltage Software have 3 WiiWare titles, 2 of which have yet to be released but look very promising in Gyrostarr and Animales de la Muerte.
They also have 3 Wii titles in development, with The Conduit being the first.
- EA (I do not have the link handy) have recently announced 40 titles are in development for the Wii/DS - have also praised and came to terms with the Wii and it's software pushing capabilities, it's massive, growing user-base, were also disappointed in their own failures to capture/foresee the success of the Wii. Time will tell, but the ball is in EA's court.
- Sega have picked up Madworld, a new exclusive House of the Dead is in the works, an exclusive Wii Sonic title, Samba di Amigo, on top of successes such as M & S Olympics.
bdouble said:why oh why do I not have any shares?
Who else makes forecasts like this? Its borderline sickening how much of a killing Nintendo is making right now.
Linkup said:6 billion dollars of profit!
give me some
sphinx said:3rd party quality support for the hardcore on Wii is out of the question, it just is.
Western devs hate it, japanese devs fear it.
better luck and planning next gen.
sphinx said:Anyone expecting the mainline games or the big new hyped IP's like Assasins Creed or similar to suddenly come to Wii is in for a rude awakening.
sphinx said:from a hardcore gamer perspective, it is too late for that.
Wii will not have the support the DS has had.
With DS, it worked flawlessly: Nintendo takes care of the casuals and the 3rd parties take care of the hardcore. Luckily, the DS got the kind of support we wanted from companies like Square Enix and almost every other publisher. That helped the DS become a fabulous system for the hardcore and casuals alike.
3rd party quality support for the hardcore on Wii is out of the question, it just is.
Western devs hate it, japanese devs fear it.
better luck and planning next gen.
Thing about the Wii is that if you're looking for major third party support like Square-Enix or Take-Two, you're probably not going to get it, at least in the near future.Andrex said:Monster Hunter 3? The next Tales? Arc Rise Fantasia? Just like Panther said, the Japanese are already waking up to it.
You're the one in for a rude awakening, methinks.
And with Renegade Kid and High Voltage throwing their support behind it, its Western support is clearly on an upswing as well.
Aaron Strife said:Thing about the Wii is that if you're looking for major third party support like Square-Enix or Take-Two, you're probably not going to get it, at least in the near future.
However, smaller third parties are more willing to give the system a chance. For one thing, since companies like S-E/T2 aren't supporting it, they won't feel so overwhelmed in the face of a new Final Fantasy. Would Conduit have received as much attention were it developed for any other platform? Probably not. Developers like Renegade Kid and High Voltage are allowed to shine on a system where there's little competition.
That's not to say that the more major publishers are ignoring the console. Sega, Activision, and now EA are putting their best foot forward in supporting it. I'd say Capcom as well but I don't think we've passed enough tests yet, though Dead Rising and Monster Hunter 3 are pretty big steps.
GAF likes to let one or two games dictate their perception of a companies support. Some how! Some how, people still question Capcom support of the Wii despite their hottest (and 2nd biggest ever) franchise in Japan coming exclusive to the system. We're looking at just RE5, so all those other games don't count... They're just ports...Aaron Strife said:Thing about the Wii is that if you're looking for major third party support like Square-Enix or Take-Two, you're probably not going to get it, at least in the near future.
However, smaller third parties are more willing to give the system a chance. For one thing, since companies like S-E/T2 aren't supporting it, they won't feel so overwhelmed in the face of a new Final Fantasy. Would Conduit have received as much attention were it developed for any other platform? Probably not. Developers like Renegade Kid and High Voltage are allowed to shine on a system where there's little competition.
That's not to say that the more major publishers are ignoring the console. Sega, Activision, and now EA are putting their best foot forward in supporting it. I'd say Capcom as well but I don't think we've passed enough tests yet, though Dead Rising and Monster Hunter 3 are pretty big steps.
from a hardcore gamer perspective, it is too late for that.( for support)
sphinx said:anyone claiming with me that the Wii is "slowly but steadily" getting the "hardcore, epic" games is delusional and just wrong.
I am talking about the KIND of support here not about the ammount of it.
szaromir said:So there will be 50M Wiis shipped by March? Am I correct? That's very impressive, and probably more than PS3 and 360 combined.
Hmmm, I think that FF's support in the early days were adequate, but not now. I would consider it pisspoor.Andrex said:I think SE has done a fair amount of Wii support so far. It's gotten a Dragon Quest game, an FFCC WiiWare launch game, and an FF Fables game. Not as much as 360 has gotten, but more than the PS3. Sure, they're not multi-million dollar projects like a mainline FF game, but those such titles were in production before the Wii launched.
I think for the rest of this generation, most new Square projects are gonna be Wii-oriented, and for the big-budgets I'm talking about Kingdom Hearts 3 and FFCC: The Crystal Bearers.
But I agree on the rest of your points.
The newest Tenchu game is Wii exclusive, Mad World looks amazing, a new House of the Dead exclusive for Wii. Not to mention that Namco has their Ace Combat team working on a Wii game. Multiplatform games to be released this year like Call of Duty, Guitar Hero, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed look alot better compared to the multiplatform releases of last year. Wii is also seeing franchises like Dead Rising(although it looks a bit rough), Overlord and Skate which debuted on the HD systems.sphinx said:anyone claiming with me that the Wii is "slowly but steadily" getting the "hardcore, epic" games is delusional and just wrong.
Threi said:The disruptive strategy worked with the DS because its the DS.
It will never work with the Wii because its the Wii.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong, just wrong.
End of discussion.
Kilrogg said:I er... don't understand your point? Or was it sarcasm?
Oh definitely. I don't believe that Square-Enix is going to put on the "We're above the Wii" act that other third parties have devoted themselves to, especially with their success on the DS. I'm merely saying that - for the time being - their support isn't going to go towards Wii, as Final Fantasy XIII being the mammoth of a project that it is probably won't see release until next year at best. That and the state of Crystal Bearers doesn't look to be a positive one, I have high hopes for the game however.Andrex said:I think SE has done a fair amount of Wii support so far. It's gotten a Dragon Quest game, an FFCC WiiWare launch game, and an FF Fables game. Not as much as 360 has gotten, but more than the PS3. Sure, they're not multi-million dollar projects like a mainline FF game, but those such titles were in production before the Wii launched.
I think for the rest of this generation, most new Square projects are gonna be Wii-oriented, and for the big-budgets I'm talking about Kingdom Hearts 3 and FFCC: The Crystal Bearers.
They're better than other third parties, I'll give them that. However their "major" releases have basically been like:JJConrad said:Some how, people still question Capcom support of the Wii despite their hottest (and 2nd biggest ever) franchise in Japan coming exclusive to the system.
Opiate said:I'm going to try and reign Sphinx's point in, because it's so vaguely expressed and so poorly supported that even though I think there is a kernel of truth to it, no one can take it seriously.
I think Sphinx has retroactively tried to focus this conversation exclusively on mega-budget, "epic" games like major franchises such as Final Fantasy, Gears of War, Grand Theft Auto, and Halo, and even on new "epic" games like Heavenly Sword. I think this is a valid point, for multiple reasons:
1) While most of the populace has embraced the Wii, clearly some portions of it have chosen the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. One of key demographics that PS3/360 dominate are people who care a great deal about graphics; "epic" games tend to focus heavily on graphics.
2) Another issue is simply the risk factor making Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 games. Because of the extreme cost of producing a 360/PS3 game, publishers are forced to play it safe and produce games that are very, very likely to do well. This means games in well known franchises or in high density genres such as FPS. Unless a publisher wants to abandon the 360 and PS3 entirely -- which most do not want to do -- the only games that are fiscally responsible when dealing with that much money are the games with a storied legacy, a big budget, and a well known development team, because all risks have to be minimized as much as absolutely possible.
I know the second reason in particular may seem like cheating: what one might reasonably view as a flaw -- that PS3/360 games are expensive to develop -- is also the reason I believe that developers are and must continue to put only the biggest, most storied, and least risky games on those platforms. It may seem unfair, but fairness isn't part of business.
ComputerNerd said:I have yet to year a good argument of why "biggest, most storied, and least risky games" can't be on the Wii. When developers try, traditional games sell great on the Wii. Many games can be ported down, if it gets to that point.
Opiate said:I'm going to try and reign Sphinx's point in, because it's so vaguely expressed and so poorly supported that even though I think there is a kernel of truth to it, no one can take it seriously.
I think Sphinx has retroactively tried to focus this conversation exclusively on mega-budget, "epic" games like major franchises such as Final Fantasy, Gears of War, Grand Theft Auto, and Halo, and even on new "epic" games like Heavenly Sword. I think this is a valid point, for multiple reasons:
1) While most of the populace has embraced the Wii, clearly some portions of it have chosen the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. One of key demographics that PS3/360 dominate are people who care a great deal about graphics; "epic" games tend to focus heavily on graphics.
2) Another issue is simply the risk factor making Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 games. Because of the extreme cost of producing a 360/PS3 game, publishers are forced to play it safe and produce games that are very, very likely to do well. This means games in well known franchises or in high density genres such as FPS. Unless a publisher wants to abandon the 360 and PS3 entirely -- which most do not want to do -- the only games that are fiscally responsible when dealing with that much money are the games with a storied legacy, a big budget, and a well known development team, because all risks have to be minimized as much as absolutely possible.
3) For many franchises, it's too late to go back. For example, Final Fantasy: even after FF XIII launches, there is (I believe) a near 0% chance that the next one will be on Wii. If it had moved from PS2 to Wii, it may have been fine. But a game of that nature (and I do think it's different than Dragon Quest, which has no Western following) cannot take a dramatic step backwards graphically. Once an "epic," big budget affair step up to that graphical level, you're stuck with it, whether you would like to go backwards or not. Fans of these well known and long followed franchises expect every game to be bigger, better, more amazing than the last, and a significant part of that is the graphics.
I know the second reason in particular may seem like cheating: what one might reasonably view as a flaw -- that PS3/360 games are expensive to develop -- is also the reason I believe that developers are and must continue to put only the biggest, most storied, and least risky games on those platforms. It may seem unfair, but fairness isn't part of business.
Opiate said:I don't think you understood my point: again, it isn't that they can't be on Wii, it's that they must be on the PS3 and 360. If you want to work on the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 at all -- which most publishers do -- you have to minize risk as much as possible, much moreso than you do for the Wii, because of the expontential rise in cost.
In such a situation, the only games that are fiscally responsible are the "biggest, most storied, and least risky games."
It reminds me a bit of how some (but not all) developers are switching to the Playstation 3 as lead platform specifically because it's so difficult to work with, and then porting to the Xbox 360. Even though the Xbox 360 sells more games. Even though the Xbox 360 still has a larger install base. In this case, Sony is being rewarded for making a system that is difficult to program for. I bring this example up because, like the discussion above, it may not seem "fair," but business isn't about fairness.
The usual Wii=nongamerz and HD=hardcores that still pervades the whole industry(no matter how incorrect it might be) except for a select few, can easily explain that.TunaLover said:So the same "biggest, most storied, and least risky games." should be even less risky on Wii due low development cost, but developers choose burn more money on PS360? Yay let's make profit!!!
Wait you forgot the moneyhats that both companies give to make a "X" tittle less risky.
Flakster99 said:
The little system that could.
TunaLover said:So the same "biggest, most storied, and least risky games." should be even less risky on Wii due low development cost, but developers choose burn more money on PS360? Yay let's make profit!!!
TunaLover said:So the same "biggest, most storied, and least risky games." should be even less risky on Wii due low development cost, but developers choose burn more money on PS360? Yay let's make profit!!!
Dude, I know I like to hate on Wii 3rd parties but those 'facts' haven't been proved at all. They still have an argument that Wii doesn't exceed PS3+360. I guess we'll just wait till next year. What really sucks is that no smaller 3rd party dev has jumped at the opportunity. No 'AAA' game from a small dev that will sell 10 million from out of the blue. Where is the rockstar of this generation? They should be on Wii. A dev with some experience and some success waiting to make the jump. All of the hits, we saw coming this generation. What's up with that? This generation blows.sphinx said:It's been proved time and again why Wii won't get the support, there are lots of reasons. There is that thread made by pantherlotus about why wii won't get the support, go read that.
I won't go all over again repeating what's been said time and again for over a year about why the Wii will not be a DS. I'll just repeat something:
.- Western devs hate it.
.- Japanese devs don't trust it.
.- both think only casual shit sells.
and these facts remain valid no matter how many billions the Wii sells worldwide.
at best, we will get the toned done spin-off like RE:UC as an experiment in reaching new audiences. Anyone expecting the mainline games or the big new hyped IP's like Assasins Creed or similar to suddenly come to Wii is in for a rude awakening.
Agreed.Deku said:Wii is behind schedule and Panther's argument is flawed.
Opiate said:Right, one could argue that abandoning the PS3/360 entirely is reasonable. What I'm arguing is that if companies do not want to abandon those systems (and most do not seem to want to, whether you believe they should or not), then the very first games they should put on them are their big budget blockbusters. I'm going to repost my edited in example from above, because I think it distills my point better.
Imagine if Konami was planning three new titles: a game in the Metal Gear Solid franchise, and two new IPs. If you wanted to continue to support all systems (and again, most publishers do), which system would you put which game on? I would argue that in most cases, if the new IPs are even moderately risky, you cannot put those games on the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. The stakes are too high and the bombs too painful. As such, the only game that one can put on the PS3/360 would be the Metal Gear game, because it is less risky and less prone to catastrophic failure. Thus, the two new IPs would be on the Wii or DS, and Metal Gear would remain on the PS3/360.