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NPD Sales Results for December 2009

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Xeke said:
That's why I think Nintendo just doesn't care about Japan as much as they once did and that is the reason for the releases and situation over there at this point.


Of course they care about Japan. Just read any post earning report briefing if you want to know how much Nintendo and their investors care.
 
Zeitgeister said:
count me in for the insane crowd.

Unless ODST outsold Halo 3 as well, other than that I would not expect "start the fight...ish" to outsell "finish the fight".


No doubt MS will market it to hell and back, but I don't really see the appeal of Reach as going beyond what has come before.

Who in their right mind thought that odst would sell close to Halo 3?
 

Arnie

Member
Zeitgeister said:
count me in for the insane crowd.

Unless ODST outsold Halo 3 as well, other than that I would not expect "start the fight...ish" to outsell "finish the fight".


No doubt MS will market it to hell and back, but I don't really see the appeal of Reach as going beyond what has come before.
ODST is not a barometer for Reach. They are two completely different beasts. Not to mention 360's much larger install base in fall 2010 compared to fall 2007. The tagline is not "start the fight...ish", it is "Reach falls... 2010".
 
Halo is in its declining stage and Reach won't sell much because me and my friends are COD fanboys and aren't hyped by Reach even though there has been almost no info released on the game at all. mirite?! :lol

It seems quite a few people are crossing their fingers for the Halo series to go into decline. Sorry assholes, there'll be another round of ass-whopping come fall. Believe.
 
Well, I think they have a good chance to swing favor back to Halo with this game.

A lot of the hardcore enjoyed MW2, but especially in single player, it was a disappointment. Even multiplayer has had it's share of disappointing moments, from the javelin, to the 1887s, to the boosters, to the hacked matchmaking, to the dumbasses playing the game..

I think CoD will still be the top shooting franchise, but after MW2, Reach has a much better opportunity than Halo 3 did vs CoD4.
 

yurinka

Member
Arnie said:
ODST is not a barometer for Reach. They are two completely different beasts. Not to mention 360's much larger install base in fall 2010 compared to fall 2007. The tagline is not "start the fight...ish", it is "Reach falls... 2010".
Yes, ODST was like an expansion, and Reach is a brand new game. I think it's pretty obvious Reach will have far bigger marketing and sales than ODST. And also bigger than Halo 3 due the difference in install base. I think Reach will be the game with better sales in 2010 worldwide.

In addition to Natal it's the more important Microsoft gaming product of the year. And if Natal isn't released until holydays, they need to push something before it, to counter the PS3 sales (I think they will be pretty close in LTD WW numbers to 360 just before Reach release) and their 2010 exclusive line-up.
 

Karma

Banned
yurinka said:
Yes, ODST was like an expansion, and Reach is a brand new game. I think it's pretty obvious Reach will have far bigger marketing and sales than ODST. And also bigger than Halo 3 due the difference in install base. I think Reach will be the game with better sales in 2010 worldwide.

In addition to Natal it's the more important Microsoft gaming product of the year. And if Natal isn't released until holydays, they need to push something before it, to counter the PS3 sales (I think they will be pretty close in LTD WW numbers to 360 just before Reach release) and their 2010 exclusive line-up.

That something would be 360 exclusive line-up. Also, I have asked this before but why do they need to outsell the PS3 hardware? They are selling more software than the PS3, making profit and getting tons of 3rd party support. The 360 is doing fine.
 

JJConrad

Sucks at viral marketing
I'd have to say that believing that Reach will outsell Halo 3 is a bit more crazy at this point. The only evidence we have at the moment does suggest that it won't outsell 3. Thats far far far from conclusive, but it is reasonable to consider. It's way too early to be taking such strict sides on the issue.

dolemite said:
The slim was on sale in the US about 10 day before the end of August essentially at the same time as the Phat price cut.
It wasn't that long. The Slim had a soft release date of September 1. The new units started arriving within the week before that release, but still well after the pricedrop. Sony's reps were instructing retailers to start selling them as soon as they got them. There were estimates that about 70k Slims were sold in August. It's a moot point, as it doesn't really change anything but only leads to more symantecs.
 

Arnie

Member
yurinka said:
Yes, ODST was like an expansion, and Reach is a brand new game. I think it's pretty obvious Reach will have far bigger marketing and sales than ODST. And also bigger than Halo 3 due the difference in install base. I think Reach will be the game with better sales in 2010 worldwide.

In addition to Natal it's the more important Microsoft gaming product of the year. And if Natal isn't released until holydays, they need to push something before it, to counter the PS3 sales (I think they will be pretty close in LTD WW numbers to 360 just before Reach release) and their 2010 exclusive line-up.
Honestly I expect the 360 to outsell the PS3 during the first half of 2010 in the US and Europe. Sony have MAG releasing soon, which although I am a huge fan of it and will buy it on release, I don't know if the audience is there for it so soon after MW2. Although, the open beta may have vastly increased interest for the title so that could push some systems. However 360 then has ME2 which is now part of an established franchise and based on early reports looks to be a critical success.

From then on, PS3 has God of War 3 and Heavy Rain while 360 has Splinter Cell, Crackdown and Alan Wake. When examining commercial success, the 360 lineup looks to be healthier, as no doubt Heavy Rain will be an original title, it does't look poised to set retail alight. Splinter Cell is a Tom Clancy title and almost guaranteed to post modest numbers because of this. Now, given the PS3 userbase's adoption of first party exclusives I am going to say that God of War will sell nowhere near Crackdown 2 and Alan Wake combined.

So to me the PS3's lineup for the first half of the year in the West doesn't look any better than 360's and with the two consoles neck and neck currently, I can't see the PS3 suddenly overtaking the 360 in sales.

A huge variable in all this is GT5. A massive title for Sony and one I believe they will hold until fall. For me GT5 has the ability to sell close to Halo: Reach numbers on the PS3 if marketed right for christmas 2010.

However, the fall is too hard to predict as we know Sony are holding things to announce at E3, with the current schedule so empty. The first half of the year however, from a software point of view is in my eyes tipped in Microsoft's favour.
 

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
JJConrad said:
I'd have to say that believing that Reach will outsell Halo 3 is a bit more crazy at this point. The only evidence we have at the moment does suggest that it won't outsell 3. Thats far far far from conclusive, but it is reasonable to consider. It's way too early to be taking such strict sides on the issue.
What other big shooters are coming out this year?

This years CoD is a B-team effort, and we know IW are working on at least 2 map packs for MW2 so even fewer will pick up that game. I don't see the new CoD getting anywhere near MW2's success, so Reach pretty much has the genre to itself this year.
 

yurinka

Member
Karma said:
That something would be 360 exclusive line-up. Also, I have asked this before but why do they need to outsell the PS3 hardware? They are selling more software than the PS3, making profit and getting tons of 3rd party support. The 360 is doing fine.
Of course, it will be exclusive line-up. And I say Reach because I think it's the more important of their line-up announced for 2010. And yes, 360 is doing fine and always sold more software than PS3.

About hardware, even obviously 360 is doing fine, but since price-cut / Slim release PS3 is doing better. As a guy mentioned, PS3 outsold (only 11.6K I think) 360 since September in US, which is the main pro-360 market. I think in Japan there is a 3M aprox gap between 360 and PS3, and at the end of the month we will know exactly how affected the price cut / Slim release in PS3's main market (PAL), which likely it will be more than in Japan or US.

I mentioned PS3 exclusive line-up because I think it will be key in 2010 for them -specially in Europe, traditional pro Sony market- who is going to get the traditionally best selling IPs in Playstation consoles (Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy -even it isn't exclusive outside Japan-, God of War), and I think they combined are going to help PS3 sales specially in PAL land, closing this WW HW gap between 360 and PS3 which is coming from US.
 

donny2112

Member
Dalthien said:
Are you sure you don't want to amend this statement?

Yes. I realize how the top games have sold. I also realize how barren the sales are past those, though. It's a lot like the PSP. There's MH and clones, SE's big stuff, and then basically nothing else above 400K. Not a good environment, and, more importantly, not as good as it could've been. The fact that some people are actually trying to say that PS3 sales in 2010 will be above Wii sales in 2010 (and aren't getting shouted down a lot) is an indicator that things are not right for Nintendo in the Land of the Rising Sun.

Dalthien said:
The original comment that you were responding to had to do with Nintendo not wanting to abandon the Wii prematurely because of how well their software sells (at least that's how I took it - referring to the mammoth userbase that they've created for their own software).

I took it as simply not wanting to abandon a big userbase, but I'm sure a part of that reasoning would be how their own software sells, too. As I've said in the MC threads before, third-parties have gone a long ways to damaging Nintendo with the Wii in Japan. That damaging isn't as apparent outside Japan, but there are concerning signs (despite 3.8m in sales in December in the U.S.) there, nonetheless. A Fall 2011 release should be before either 360 or PS3's successor. Fall 2012 may be okay, too, but by that point, I'm concerned that Wii would've started looking a lot more like Japan in the rest of the world. The state in Japan could just be scary, by that point. Fall 2011 in Japan and Fall 2012 elsewhere would be ideal, but I don't think they can get away with that in the current worldwide environment.

Dalthien said:
Nintendo hasn't had any problems at all selling software in Japan. The Wii has been a software nirvana from the greatest of all possible gods for Nintendo 1st-party software. Even in Japan. So I'm not sure why you would try suggesting that Japan has somehow been weak for Nintendo's Wii software.

I said that? If I did, sorry, but I don't think I did. It's not all been roses for their software (e.g. Galaxy was nearly a huge problem before the NSMB ads reinvigorated sales and they've releases some really poorly selling niche core games), but, yes, their software has been much bigger overall. It could've been better with more core/content-driven support on the system for those smaller titles, but it's been very good overall in Japan and extremely good outside of Japan.
 
Arnie said:
ODST is not a barometer for Reach. They are two completely different beasts. Not to mention 360's much larger install base in fall 2010 compared to fall 2007. The tagline is not "start the fight...ish", it is "Reach falls... 2010".

sure, it appeals to the Halo cult. But so did ODST, despite being a 'smaller' project.

The real question is whether or not Reach can appeal an audience beyond 'cult' as Halo 2 and 3 did. And I really don't see that happening by itself.
 

Nutter

Member
Zeitgeister said:
count me in for the insane crowd.

Unless ODST outsold Halo 3 as well, other than that I would not expect "start the fight...ish" to outsell "finish the fight".


No doubt MS will market it to hell and back, but I don't really see the appeal of Reach as going beyond what has come before.
You realise ODST is a damn expansion right? [even then it is at 3million in the US alone]
Some of you guys are just plain dumb if you are comparing ODST with a full fledged Halo title.

But then again this is GAF, this board is just too good at eating crow when it comes to Halo game sales.. it happened with 2, happened with 3, will happen with Reach.
You guys never learn.
 

Arnie

Member
yurinka said:
Of course, it will be exclusive line-up. And I say Reach because I think it's the more important of their line-up announced for 2010. And yes, 360 is doing fine and always sold more software than PS3.

About hardware, even obviously 360 is doing fine, but since price-cut / Slim release PS3 is doing better. As a guy mentioned, PS3 outsold (only 11.6K I think) 360 since September in US, which is the main pro-360 market. I think in Japan there is a 3M aprox gap between 360 and PS3, and at the end of the month we will know exactly how affected the price cut / Slim release in PS3's main market (PAL), which likely it will be more than in Japan or US.

I mentioned PS3 exclusive line-up because I think it will be key in 2010 for them -specially in Europe, traditional pro Sony market- who is going to get the traditionally best selling IPs in Playstation consoles (Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy -even it isn't exclusive outside Japan-, God of War), and I think they combined are going to help PS3 sales specially in PAL land, closing this WW HW gap between 360 and PS3 which is coming from US.
To be honest you're probably right. I talk about Europe but my perception of Europe is based around the UK which I understand is more like the US than the rest of Europe. So yes, I think the PS3's success this year focuses around GT5 as that will do massive numbers.

In the US and the UK I think the 360 will consistently perform up to the same levels as PS3 if not higher but I believe most of Europe and Japan is where PS3 can really close ground on 360 this year.
Zeitgeister said:
sure, it appeals to the Halo cult. But so did ODST, despite being a 'smaller' project.

The real question is whether or not Reach can appeal an audience beyond 'cult' as Halo 2 and 3 did. And I really don't see that happening by itself.
This is ridiculous. ODST sold 2.5 million. That is not the "Halo cult". That is an audience who were willing to purchase an expansion to Halo 3. Now Microsoft are going to market Reach as the next big Halo title, on the same level as Halo 3, starting with the multiplayer Beta in the Spring. ODST didn't sell less than Halo 3 because only the cult audience were interested, it sold that because it was an expansion with no competitive multiplayer.

Reach is Halo 4, it will be marketed like Halo 4, it will sell like Halo 4. The only reason it is not called Halo 4 is because it is set days prior to Halo 1.
 

Mindlog

Member
yurinka said:
Of course, it will be exclusive line-up. And I say Reach because I think it's the more important of their line-up announced for 2010. And yes, 360 is doing fine and always sold more software than PS3.

About hardware, even obviously 360 is doing fine, but since price-cut / Slim release PS3 is doing better. As a guy mentioned, PS3 outsold (only 11.6K I think) 360 since September in US, which is the main pro-360 market. I think in Japan there is a 3M aprox gap between 360 and PS3, and at the end of the month we will know exactly how affected the price cut / Slim release in PS3's main market (PAL), which likely it will be more than in Japan or US.

I mentioned PS3 exclusive line-up because I think it will be key in 2010 for them -specially in Europe, traditional pro Sony market- who is going to get the traditionally best selling IPs in Playstation consoles (Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy -even it isn't exclusive outside Japan-, God of War), and I think they combined are going to help PS3 sales specially in PAL land, closing this WW HW gap between 360 and PS3 which is coming from US.

Software market specialization yet global hardware generalization.

Why?
 

donny2112

Member
jvm said:
Maybe I'm just being picky.

I don't think the MW:Reflex total is correct. The person who first posted the link said it was from a few days ago. That would've been from before the Dec. NPDs. Someone else said that it wasn't from VGC. The U.S. total for Reflex on VGC is under 500K, but the worldwide total is over it. Excitebots only has been released in the U.S., so its U.S. total is its worldwide total.

In summary, I think the destructoid numbers are from VGC and referencing worldwide sales. Therefore, there's nothing we can derive about U.S. December NPD sales from using that number.

That's what I'm thinking, anyways.
 
Nutter said:
You realise ODST is a damn expansion right?
Some of you guys are just plain dumb if you are comparing ODST with a full fledged Halo title.

not comparing the scale of the project, comparing the role of the game to the larger franchise.

Btw, even if you would concieve of Reach as being able to sell itself on its own merits, new players are still going to miss the links between ODST and Reach.


sure, MS can market even a complete turd into something worth buying (too human comes to mind), but if we make predictions without marketingpush behind it, there is little 'natural appeal' to Reach. I don't care if it's a "fully fledged" "Halo". I want you to tell me WHY any casual gamer (who hasn't even played Halo) would walk into a store, see the box and say 'hey, let's BUY this'.

edit:

This is ridiculous. ODST sold 2.5 million. That is not the "Halo cult". That is an audience who were willing to purchase an expansion to Halo 3. Now Microsoft are going to market Reach as the next big Halo title, on the same level as Halo 3, starting with the multiplayer Beta in the Spring. ODST didn't sell less than Halo 3 because only the cult audience were interested, it sold that because it was an expansion with no competitive multiplayer.

Reach is Halo 4, it will be marketed like Halo 4, it will sell like Halo 4. The only reason it is not called Halo 4 is because it is set days prior to Halo 1.

But it's not Halo 4, that's the whole point. It will sell by brand, by marketing and what not, but can you imagine this selling beyond players of previous Halo-titles (and I called it 'cult' because of the books, not size matters)
 

Arnie

Member
Zeitgeister said:
I want you to tell me WHY any casual gamer (who hasn't even played Halo) would walk into a store, see the box and say 'hey, let's BUY this'.
Because all his friends are playing it.
Zeitgeister said:
But it's not Halo 4, that's the whole point. It will sell by brand, by marketing and what not, but can you imagine this selling beyond players of previous Halo-titles (and I called it 'cult' because of the books, not size matters)
What you are saying doesn't make much sense. It will sell by marketing like you say, and Microsoft are determined to make this the biggest game of the year in the absence of an A team Call of Duty game. So it should at least sell to the previous Halo audience which is huge considering what 3 sold. That's not counting the amount of potential customers who bought their 360s post 2007. Reach will be the biggest 360 game of the year. Unless there is a game titled "titty fondling" in Natal's launch library.
 
Souldriver said:
We from Volkswagen have decided not to introduce our hybrid car in China for the foreseeable future. If you look at the current amount of hybrid Volkswagens in China right now, namely none, it's quite clear that there's no market for this type of car over there. So why bother?

Contrarily, we have only introduced a very dated and polluting car there 2 years ago. It's not selling to hot, but at least it sold more than our Hybrid, so it's quite clear we have to continue making dated and polluting cars. It's what the Chinese market wants.
Well gosh . . . and people keep telling me that there have been M-rated rated games do sell because of games like No More Heroes, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, etc.

Which is it? No one has tried or M-rated games do just fine on the Wii? Pick one.

AniHawk said:
Why did Rockstar bother with the DS? It has even fewer million selling M rated games. None, actually.
bothered.

After the sales disaster that was GTA: Chinatown Wars, I doubt you'll see them give much support to the DS after that.

It got rave reviews . . . but the sales were weak.

Leondexter said:
speculawyer: you have it backwards. The list looks like it does because Rockstar (and everyone else) didn't bother, not the other way around. When there's a contest and only one guy shows up, guess who wins?
Oh, how quickly we forget.

Bully
Manhunt 2

Oh, I know . . . those games suck (Bully doesn't) . . . but how did these sell?
Dead Space Extraction
Mad World
Call of Duty: World At War
No More Heroes
House of Dead Overkill
etc.

Those all got good reviews.
 

Nutter

Member
Zeitgeister said:
not comparing the scale of the project, comparing the role of the game to the larger franchise.

Btw, even if you would concieve of Reach as being able to sell itself on its own merits, new players are still going to miss the links between ODST and Reach.


sure, MS can market even a complete turd into something worth buying (too human comes to mind), but if we make predictions without marketingpush behind it, there is little 'natural appeal' to Reach. I don't care if it's a "fully fledged" "Halo". I want you to tell me WHY any casual gamer (who hasn't even played Halo) would walk into a store, see the box and say 'hey, let's BUY this'.
Uh, because they have done so in the past? What arguement are you using anyway? cant that be used for any COD title? then why is it that a turd like COD3 and COD5 sell almost the same as their 4, and 6 counterparts? its because of name brand? then Halo is as big as COD on the 360 in terms of name brand, and when an expansion of a game can sell millions a full featured marketed title will generate that much more hype and sales.
 

yurinka

Member
Arnie said:
Honestly I expect the 360 to outsell the PS3 during the first half of 2010 in the US and Europe. Sony have MAG releasing soon, which although I am a huge fan of it and will buy it on release, I don't know if the audience is there for it so soon after MW2. Although, the open beta may have vastly increased interest for the title so that could push some systems. However 360 then has ME2 which is now part of an established franchise and based on early reports looks to be a critical success.

From then on, PS3 has God of War 3 and Heavy Rain while 360 has Splinter Cell, Crackdown and Alan Wake. When examining commercial success, the 360 lineup looks to be healthier, as no doubt Heavy Rain will be an original title, it does't look poised to set retail alight. Splinter Cell is a Tom Clancy title and almost guaranteed to post modest numbers because of this. Now, given the PS3 userbase's adoption of first party exclusives I am going to say that God of War will sell nowhere near Crackdown 2 and Alan Wake combined.

So to me the PS3's lineup for the first half of the year in the West doesn't look any better than 360's and with the two consoles neck and neck currently, I can't see the PS3 suddenly overtaking the 360 in sales.

A huge variable in all this is GT5. A massive title for Sony and one I believe they will hold until fall. For me GT5 has the ability to sell close to Halo: Reach numbers on the PS3 if marketed right for christmas 2010.

However, the fall is too hard to predict as we know Sony are holding things to announce at E3, with the current schedule so empty. The first half of the year however, from a software point of view is in my eyes tipped in Microsoft's favour.
I think MAG, Heavy Rain and Last Guardian will have retatively low sales (max 1 -or 2- million WW), even they will have a good metacritic score and will help the image of the PS3 exclusive line-up for the non-PS3 core gamers who are doubting if to buy or not a PS3 this year.

I think GT5 will have a stunning WW sales numbers, close but inferior to Reach, and that has been pushed to release it at the same time than the Bravia 3DTVs and their PS3 3D gaming patch to help their marketing (like they did with GT PSP and PSP Go).

I think Mass Effect 2 will be 2nd 360 exclusive with better sales in the year. I also think that Spinter Cell will show good numbers too but Crackdown 2 will perform ok only if it's bundled with Reach demo like Crackdown 1 did. I think in this case SC and CD2 combined surpass or reach GoW3 WW sales.

I think even they will be great games and will have good sales, I think almost everyone who will buy Halo Reach, Crackdown 2, Mass Effect 2, Splinter Cell, Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, MAG or Last Guardian already have this console.

I think the difference in PS3 and 360 2010 line-up is that as I explained before there are some "popular Playstation IPs" with people expecting their release to get a PS3 (Gran turismo, GoW, FFXIII), now that the console has a decent price and a good exclusive line-up. People who had a PS2 already don't have a next-gen system, or has a 360 and plan to buy a PS3.
 
I don't pretend to know how Halo Reach will do (other than "very well", of course), but it'll be interesting to see. I think the fact that it's called "Reach" instead of "4" is a disadvantage, because at a casual glance the title looks like a spinoff. Especially after some uninformed buyers might have felt burnt by Halo Wars or ODST. That's something they'll have to overcome with marketing--get the word out that it's a "real" Halo game. But on the upside, there are a lot more 360 owners out there now, and presumably Reach will have some new things to offer as well.

It's also funny to see some emotional attachment to the game already. :lol
 

Kuroyume

Banned
jett said:
You better explain yourself.

I'm referring to the idiots in the Killzone 2 thread who have suggested that KZ2 hasn't done well because of its controls and lack of matchmaking. It just goes to show that those things had absolutely nothing to do with it based on what UC2 has done.

KEEP THE CONTROLS AND GAMES LIST GG
 

yurinka

Member
Leondexter said:
I don't pretend to know how Halo Reach will do (other than "very well", of course), but it'll be interesting to see. I think the fact that it's called "Reach" instead of "4" is a disadvantage, because at a casual glance the title looks like a spinoff. Especially after some uninformed buyers might have felt burnt by Halo Wars or ODST. That's something they'll have to overcome with marketing--get the word out that it's a "real" Halo game. But on the upside, there are a lot more 360 owners out there now, and presumably Reach will have some new things to offer as well.

It's also funny to see some emotional attachment to the game already. :lol
I think Reach will sale like pankakes. Halo fans already know it's a new "real" Halo.
I think they are waiting to put the "4" in the next game, the first 343 studios only Halo, helping to counter the loss of hype of being the first non-Bungie "real" Halo.
 
speculawyer said:
Which is it? No one has tried or M-rated games do just fine on the Wii? Pick one.

There have been a few minimal efforts that did better than expected. No one has made an M-rated Wii game with a real push behind it.


Anihawk said:
Why did Rockstar bother with the DS?

bothered.

Wow, I've never seen anyone try to "correct" someone into this particular, extremely wrong grammatical pet peeve. Believe me, his sentence is written correctly.
 

Arnie

Member
yurinka said:
I think MAG, Heavy Rain and Last Guardian will have retatively low sales (max 1 -or 2- million WW), even they will have a good metacritic score and will help the image of the PS3 exclusive line-up for the non-PS3 core gamers who are doubting if to buy or not a PS3 this year.

I think GT5 will have a stunning WW sales numbers, close but inferior to Reach, and that has been pushed to release it at the same time than the Bravia 3DTVs and their PS3 3D gaming patch to help their marketing (like they did with GT PSP and PSP Go).

I think Mass Effect 2 will be 2nd 360 exclusive with better sales in the year. I also think that Spinter Cell will show good numbers too but Crackdown 2 will perform ok only if it's bundled with Reach demo like Crackdown 1 did. I think in this case SC and CD2 combined surpass or reach GoW3 WW sales.

I think even they will be great games and will have good sales, I think almost everyone who will buy Halo Reach, Crackdown 2, Mass Effect 2, Splinter Cell, Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, MAG or Last Guardian already have this console.

I think the difference in PS3 and 360 2010 line-up is that as I explained before there are some "popular Playstation IPs" with people expecting their release to get a PS3 (Gran turismo, GoW, FFXIII), now that the console has a decent price and a good exclusive line-up. People who had a PS2 already don't have a next-gen system, or has a 360 and plan to buy a PS3.
Agreed. GT5 and God of War 3 have the potential to be huge sellers. Although I think God of War needs the right marketing to fulfil it's sales potential, something which Sony seem to have been lacking pre Slim-era. But yes now that it is getting some "Playstation IP's" it should have a mega successful 2010.
Leondexter said:
I don't pretend to know how Halo Reach will do (other than "very well", of course), but it'll be interesting to see. I think the fact that it's called "Reach" instead of "4" is a disadvantage, because at a casual glance the title looks like a spinoff. Especially after some uninformed buyers might have felt burnt by Halo Wars or ODST. That's something they'll have to overcome with marketing--get the word out that it's a "real" Halo game. But on the upside, there are a lot more 360 owners out there now, and presumably Reach will have some new things to offer as well.
Again, agreed. I said it earlier but ODST probably did more harm than good for the franchise, same with Wars. However I still think the power of Microsoft's marketing and the "software smart" nature of the 360 userbase will push Reach past Halo 3's numbers.
 

kitzkozan

Member
Do we have any idea of how Dragon age performed in december? I know the site which shouldn't be named is saying 1.85 million copies sold,but it doesn't make any sense to me. :lol

I'm guessing that DA did around 300-400K in december,which would put it at what? 700-800K copies sold in the US compared to 1.4 million sold according to that other site. :p
 

donny2112

Member
Arnie said:
Reach is Halo 4, it will be marketed like Halo 4, it will sell like Halo 4. The only reason it is not called Halo 4 is because it is set days prior to Halo 1.

Why not Halo 0, then? Honestly, all I really knew about Halo Reach was from the E3 conference last year, and there it was called the next big game in the Halo Universe (after ODST). I had no idea that it was a main-ish game in the series, and I'm concerned its sales could be hurt by not giving it an unused number.

If Microsoft can market this title well enough to get people to realize it's basically Halo 4, it'll be a huge accomplishment, in my mind. Looking forward to seeing what they can do with it. :)
 

Dalthien

Member
donny2112 said:
I took it as simply not wanting to abandon a big userbase, but I'm sure a part of that reasoning would be how their own software sells, too. As I've said in the MC threads before, third-parties have gone a long ways to damaging Nintendo with the Wii in Japan. That damaging isn't as apparent outside Japan, but there are concerning signs (despite 3.8m in sales in December in the U.S.) there, nonetheless. A Fall 2011 release should be before either 360 or PS3's successor. Fall 2012 may be okay, too, but by that point, I'm concerned that Wii would've started looking a lot more like Japan in the rest of the world. The state in Japan could just be scary, by that point. Fall 2011 in Japan and Fall 2012 elsewhere would be ideal, but I don't think they can get away with that in the current worldwide environment.
There are certainly a number of areas where the Wii's performance in Japan is significantly below that of the western markets. 3rd-party software and hardware sales being two key areas. But Nintendo's 1st-party Wii software sales have been nothing short of extraordinary in Japan, and they continue to be.

As I mentioned earlier, Nintendo's top ten Wii titles have already blown past the PS2 top ten combined. That is absolutely mind-boggling. Those are the kinds of numbers that no one could have possibly expected. Wii Sports Resort is tracking similarly to Wii Sports. Wii Fit Plus is tracking similarly to Wii Fit. And as amazing as it sounds, NSMB Wii is tracking ahead of NSMB DS.

Would Nintendo like to have a better 3rd-party situation in Japan? Absolutely. Would they want to sacrifice their own 1st-party success in order to acquire that 3rd-party support? Not a chance in hell.

That's why I don't think the 3rd-party situation has any bearing on when Nintendo releases the Wii2. Nintendo is in the hardware business to sell their own software. If they can make some money on the hardware as well - great! If they can make some money off of 3rd-party licensing - great! But that is all well behind the goal of selling their own 1st-party software.

Which is why the decision to release a new system will depend on how that new system will affect their 1st-party software sales. As long as they have this absolutely phenomenal base built up which just eats up Nintendo software - then they won't be in any rush whatsoever to bring a new system to the market which might prematurely kill off the golden goose known as the Wii. But if they start to notice that their own 1st-party software is starting to struggle (and no - small niche titles don't count. Whether some niche game sells 15k or 40k is absolutely meaningless when you have multiple titles selling 10M+ each year), or if they feel that they've exhausted their brands and opportunities on the Wii, then they will go ahead with a new system and start the process all over again. But there is absolutely no guarantee that a follow-up system will allow them to sell anywhere near as much software as they are selling on the Wii right now.

It's possible that things may devolve quickly and a successor system is released before long. But that will depend upon how Nintendo's own software is selling. Not how 3rd-parties are performing. And right now, even in Japan - Nintendo software is selling at phenomenal levels.
 
Leondexter said:
There have been a few minimal efforts that did better than expected. No one has made an M-rated Wii game with a real push behind it.
And no one will. Even 'better than expected' games sell a small fraction of their PS360 counter-parts.
Leondexter said:
Wow, I've never seen anyone try to "correct" someone into this particular, extremely wrong grammatical pet peeve. Believe me, his sentence is written correctly.
Durrr. I was not correcting his grammar. I was pointing out that they made one DS game in the past and that I doubt they are planning any additional games considering how that very high quality game sold.

What is the point of this jihad beyond Nintendo fanboyism? If you want really good M-rated games, pick up a PS3 or 360. You can get 360s for less than $200.
 
Nutter said:
Uh, because they have done so in the past? What arguement are you using anyway? cant that be used for any COD title? then why is it that a turd like COD3 and COD5 sell almost the same as their 4, and 6 counterparts? its because of name brand? then Halo is as big as COD on the 360 in terms of name brand, and when an expansion of a game can sell millions a full featured marketed title will generate that much more hype and sales.

just because it has worked for CoD sequels doesn't mean it will work that way for a Halo prequel. Or that it would work for any installment of CoD.

Halo does have a larger story / universe of its own behind it (which takes some effort to get into), whereas CoD takes no effort at all. You just have to live in the US or EU to have access to its imagery. There is no garantee that this won't have an effect on the how purchase behaviour works and salestrends behave on a larger scale.
 

yurinka

Member
Kuroyume said:
I'm referring to the idiots in the Killzone 2 thread who have suggested that KZ2 hasn't done well because of its controls and lack of matchmaking. It just goes to show that those things had absolutely nothing to do with it based on what UC2 has done.

KEEP THE CONTROLS AND GAMES LIST GG
I think the only thing in common between Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2 is that they are the only exclusive PS3 games with stunning visuals not matched in other console.

BTW I'm ok with Killzone 2 controls and no matchmaking. I prefer they trying something new than copying and pasting from other games. This is Killzone and not Call of Duty. If people wants everything like in Call of Duty, play Call of Duty.

If exclusive PS3 games like Killzone 2 didn't reached their sales potential due to lack of proper marketing, and the fragmentation of the PS3 when compared to 360. I think in PS3 there is more people who bought it for multimedia pourposes (mainly BlueRay), and specially in Europe a huge casual portion of the market (Singstar, etc).
 
donny2112 said:
If Microsoft can market this title well enough to get people to realize it's basically Halo 4, it'll be a huge accomplishment, in my mind.
If Microsoft do one thing well, it's advertising the Halo franchise.
 
donny2112 said:
Why not Halo 0, then?
For that matter, there is precedent for games taking the timeline back and moving the numbering forward. Metal Gear Solid 3 and Dragon Quest III are probably the biggest, though Lufia II is another well-remembered example. Though for something immediate before the first, maybe 0 would make more sense.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Opiate, will you allow me to borrow your "umbrella games" theory and put a slight twist to it? Let me know if I misinterpreted your idea.

Opiate's theory, if I remember correctly, is that some games, when they're incredibly successful, tend to have a beneficial effect on subsequent games released in the same genre (as long as they're serious efforts, I suppose).

I think that what we're witnessing here is a license-focused umbrella effect. While it isn't too surprising that a game like NSMB Wii should propel the sales of NSMB DS, and while both NSMB DS and Mario Kart Wii themselves already are evergreen titles, there has to be a reason why Mario and Luigi 3 is performing so well. It's already the 3rd entry to a series that's heavily-inspired by another series of games (Paper Mario), so there was little reason to believe that lightning would strike, and yet it did. And I think NSMB Wii, despite the difference in genre, is no stranger to its success, on account of being a game set in the Mario universe. I wouldn't be surprised if the ripples of NSMB Wii's momentum helped Mario Kart sell even more than it would normally have, reaching almost 1 million sales this december. It seems to me that people are craving for more Mario.

We'll see if the ripples of this newfound Mario Mania are felt in the coming months. My taste for platformers is driving me to wonder if it could usher a new era of successful 2D platform games, but it won't happen as long as developers treat them as a "not-good-enough-to-hit-retail-rather-than-digital-distribution/handheld" genre or a "platformers-are-retro-so-let's-go-8-bit-because-8-bit-is-cool" genre. I can only think of 2 platformers getting the home console retail treatment: Wario Land Shake and A Boy and his Blob. The latter is based on a license that, to my knowledge, was never that successful in the first place, and the former, well, I don't remember how much it sold, nor how popular the Wario Land series was last time an episode came out. All I know is that it had always been a handheld series up until Shake.
 

AniHawk

Member
speculawyer said:
After the sales disaster that was GTA: Chinatown Wars, I doubt you'll see them give much support to the DS after that.

It got rave reviews . . . but the sales were weak.

There was still no precedent for an M rated game to do well on the DS. Resident Evil Deadly Silence bombed hard. Dementium or whatever got a sequel, but it didn't exactly light up the sales charts. Meanwhile, the Wii had two M rated million sellers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were trying to argue that there was very little success for a game like GTA to thrive on the Wii, given only the sales of only two high selling M rated games, but the DS has had far less success than the Wii when it comes to M rated games. I don't think your logic holds up.
 
AniHawk said:
There was still no precedent for an M rated game to do well on the DS. Resident Evil Deadly Silence bombed hard. Dementium or whatever got a sequel, but it didn't exactly light up the sales charts. Meanwhile, the Wii had two M rated million sellers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were trying to argue that there was very little success for a game like GTA to thrive on the Wii, given only the sales of only two high selling M rated games, but the DS has had far less success than the Wii when it comes to M rated games. I don't think your logic holds up.
I think they should release all of the last generation console GTA games one the Wii (GTA 3, Vice City, and San Andreas). Those should be easy ports.

With regard to the DS, I'm just saying that I don't expect to see anything new from R* on that platform. You've put a good argument as to why they should not have even bothered to try . . . but I think it was good that they made an effort. And that game got even much better reviews than their Wii games.

I think the adult # of DS gamers is much lower than the kid DS gamers in the USA. When the adults in the USA are traveling, they are usually driving the car so they can't really game. I think the adult use of DS's is much higher in Japan where people can play them on the train.
 

AniHawk

Member
speculawyer said:
I think they should release all of the last generation console GTA games one the Wii (GTA 3, Vice City, and San Andreas). Those should be easy ports.

I was surprised they didn't happen, that Bully happened instead. Seemed like an obvious thing to do.

With regard to the DS, I'm just saying that I don't expect to see anything new from R* on that platform. You've put a good argument as to why they should not have even bothered to try . . . but I think it was good that they made an effort. And that game got even much better reviews than their Wii games.

I think the adult # of DS gamers is much lower than the kid DS gamers in the USA. When the adults in the USA are traveling, they are usually driving the car so they can't really game. I think the adult use of DS's is much higher in Japan where people can play them on the train.

Well that's a really good point, but I also think there's no market for the GTA 1/2 style of GTA games anymore. The GBA one, which was the same style, sold really poorly, but people attributed it more to its quality (or lack thereof) I think. The DS game was supposedly really damn good, but didn't sell on the DS or on the PSP (where there was an established and very strong fanbase for the franchise).
 

szaromir

Banned
Arnie said:
Again, agreed. I said it earlier but ODST probably did more harm than good for the franchise, same with Wars. However I still think the power of Microsoft's marketing and the "software smart" nature of the 360 userbase will push Reach past Halo 3's numbers.
I'd agree that there might appear some franchise fatigue, but then again MW2 is a 5th yearly COD release and that didn't harm the franchise. Only a tine fraction (~20%?) of Halo 3 players played Wars (which was mediocre IMO) and ODST (~40%?) players are likely to be there on day 1 with Reach, as ODST had great reception. At the end of the day Reach's sales depend first and foremost on the game's quality, as it's the most important factor here.
 

donny2112

Member
duk said:

oswvg3.jpg


What's with the little metal man in the background of some people's avatars?
 

FabCam

Member
cjelly said:
This years CoD is a B-team effort, and we know IW are working on at least 2 map packs for MW2 so even fewer will pick up that game. I don't see the new CoD getting anywhere near MW2's success, so Reach pretty much has the genre to itself this year.

The Medal of Honor reboot? EA will advertise that game to hell methinks.
 

Firestorm

Member
2009 Top 10 Retail PC Game Software Titles, Sorted By Units
1. The Sims 3 - The Sims Studio / June 2009
2. World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King - Blizzard / Nov. 2008
3. The Sims 2 Double Deluxe - Maxis / April 2008
4. World of Warcraft: Battle Chest - Blizzard / September 2007
5. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Infinity Ward / Nov. 2009
6. World of Warcraft - Blizzard / November 2004
7. The Sims 3: World Adventures Exp. - The Sims Studio / Nov. 2009
8. Spore - Maxis / September 2008
9. Dragon Age: Origins - BioWare / October 2009
10. Empire: Total War - Creative Assembly / March 2009

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/61955
 
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