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NPD Sales Results for July 2007

rhino4evr

Member
KeithFranklin said:
If Nintendo can produce shovelware why cant 3rd parties? WiiPlay is the epitome of shovelware and it constantly is the top selling Wii title.

This is what pisses me off about the Wii and the Nintendo faithful. Wii software is a joke or simply a last gen game and even the crap titles are celebrated when they sell well.

WiiPlay is lame or admit it is is a cheap deal on the #1 accessory and nothing more.
Mario Party 8 is lame yet sales are celebrated. Did you celebrate "Enter the Matrix" sales? It got better reviews.
RE4 Wii is just a GC game with new controls.
TP is just a GC game with new controls.
Paper Mario is just a GC game with new controls.

Sure the big 3 will sell well this fall, but primarily because the Nintendo faithful will insure that. Will they also sell to the new so called casual gamer. Just because of a spectacular marketing of the Wii doesnt mean they will also automatically love and lust after the traditional Nintendo big titles.

Nintendo is smarter then you.

Pretty sure Mario Galaxy will sell bucket loads when its released. Wonder how Guitar Hero III will do.
 

WildArms

Best game ever, shame about the sequels
RE4 Wii is just a GC game with new controls.
TP is just a GC game with new controls.
Paper Mario is just a GC game with new controls.

RE4 isn't made by Nintendo.

Also, the last line is like me saying "Halo 3 is just Halo 2 with better graphics". So, which do you prefer? (Not to mention Super Paper mario DOES have better graphics anyway).

Stop complaining.
 
ZealousD said:
No no it's resting! It's probably pining for Final Fantasy and Metal Gear.

That's the best I could do. =(
It's not pining! It's passed on! This console is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker!

It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the entertainment center it'd be pushing up the daisies!

Its central processes are now history! It's off the stand!

It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!

THIS IS AN EX-CONSOLE!!
 
I just realized that this is the first time since the NES that I've been pulling for the winning team. I was a Genesis fanboy, but was burned by the 32X. I only owned about 4 Super Nintendo games. Starting with the N64, though, I've been with Nintendo the whole way and haven't been burned yet. I'm so used to pulling for the underdog, though, that it feels a bit odd. Somehow, I still feel the need to be a Nintendo apologist, but at least it doesn't feel like an uphill battle.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Nintendo is smarter then you.

Pretty sure Mario Galaxy will sell bucket loads when its released. Wonder how Guitar Hero III will do.

I predict Guitar Hero III to sell the most on Wii. You heard it here first folks!
 

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
Segata Sanshiro said:
It's not pining! It's passed on! This Parrot is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker!

It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the entertainment center it'd be pushing up the daisies!

Its central processes are now history! It's off the stand!

It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!

THIS IS AN EX-Parrot!!

Sorry, :lol

Anyway, PS3 has lost any chance of outselling 360 in the US, and Europe isn't going to carry it to anywhere near a WW advantage over 360 once Halo 3 is out, 3rd place until 2008 at least.
 

basik

Member
XiaNaphryz said:
I don't know if this was posted here yet, but even the NY Times is jumping in on ragging Sony in their tech blog: Sony defeats Truman

that is great! one of the main reasons i hate sony is that they constantly lie and the press hasnt been calling them out on it. i'm not buying from a company that thinks its customers are stupid.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Segata Sanshiro said:
It's not pining! It's passed on! This console is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker!

It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the entertainment center it'd be pushing up the daisies!

Its central processes are now history! It's off the stand!

It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!

THIS IS AN EX-CONSOLE!!

Well we better cut the price then.
 
Mithos Yggdrasill said:
Simple because when someone make rules that have no sense (or that make sense only to who has done them), it is very difficult to respect them.

Example: if you say to your sons to NOT smoke, otherwise they'll punish, it is VERY likely they'll do the exact opposite of what you say.
The best strategy is: "Ok, if you wanna smoke, you ask me and I'll give you cigarettes. Just don't do it secretly." Try to believe.
Making a 2 MB GIF animation is like blowing smoke up my bandwidth, though. It's especially annoying when a thread like this already has so much to go through.
test_account said:
I wonder why people are suprised (?) hence the "wow @ wii numbers!" comments. If they shipped 1 million consoles in a month where maybe 1-2 Wii games get released, it would most likely still sell out ;) (in USA atleast). Arent people still waiting in line to get one over there?

EDIT: On 2nd thought, maybe people say "wow @ wii numbers!" because they are impressed, not suprised. Then i understand it because its indeed very impressive :)
We're used to Wii doing well, but we've not used to seeing it sell an average of 100K/week in the US past November and December. So it's surprising and impressive.
sionyboy said:
I don't suppose anyone out there has Wii launch and PS2 launches aligned with NPD numbers do they, or data for first 12 months of PS2 launch? I'm trying to get an idea of how the Wii is stacking up against the PS2 sales this far into its life.
With our current NPD restrictions we're not supposed to provide numbers we can't back up with a link or something, but I can tell you Wii in the US has sold more than what PS2 had sold in the US through 9 months. However, PS2 had a huge November/December 2001, which should put Wii back behind unless they've been stockpiling more than anyone has imagined.
driley said:
July is traditionally a slow month but many seem to be forgetting where we are in this lifecycle, so why the surprise?
Looking at it from a lifecycle point, I can't think of a system in recent history that increased so much from its first June to its first July.
 

Vyer

Member
KeithFranklin said:
If Nintendo can produce shovelware why cant 3rd parties? WiiPlay is the epitome of shovelware and it constantly is the top selling Wii title.

This is what pisses me off about the Wii and the Nintendo faithful. Wii software is a joke or simply a last gen game and even the crap titles are celebrated when they sell well.

WiiPlay is lame or admit it is is a cheap deal on the #1 accessory and nothing more.
Mario Party 8 is lame yet sales are celebrated. Did you celebrate "Enter the Matrix" sales? It got better reviews.
RE4 Wii is just a GC game with new controls.
TP is just a GC game with new controls.
Paper Mario is just a GC game with new controls.

Sure the big 3 will sell well this fall, but primarily because the Nintendo faithful will insure that. Will they also sell to the new so called casual gamer. Just because of a spectacular marketing of the Wii doesnt mean they will also automatically love and lust after the traditional Nintendo big titles.

Well at least someone is still holding on to the 'Nintendo faithful are making it #1!' line. ;) Just kidding.

Here's a few thoughts:

Apparently a lot of people find the Wii fun. (that aren't just 'Nintendo faithful')
Apparently a lot of people find Wii Sports fun.(that aren't just 'Nintendo faithful')
TP is still a new release.
Paper Mario is still a new release.
You know those games that have been around a while, or are GC games put on the Wii? Guess who didn't play them on the GC and probably doesn't even have a GC, so they'd be buying them now? (I'll give you a hint: that answer doesn't start with 'Nintendo' and end with 'faithful'. :D )

I'll give you WiiPlay but hey - cheaper controller.

You can't also call games that are highly reviewed (such as TP and PM) or games that are big hitters aka The Big 3 'shovelware'. It doesn't work that way.

Face it, man. Lots of people want the Wii (and by default games for it) and they aren't just people who bought Gamecubes. THAT'S also a big reason the software is even selling at all.
 
WildArms said:
RE4 isn't made by Nintendo.

Also, the last line is like me saying "Halo 3 is just Halo 2 with better graphics". So, which do you prefer? (Not to mention Super Paper mario DOES have better graphics anyway).

Stop complaining.

Wasnt saying RE4 was made by Nintendo. The difference between RE4 Wii and Halo 3 is that RE4 is just a GC game with updated controls. Halo 3 is nowhere close to Halo 2 with better graphics. As beautiful as Halo 3 looks that is just a minor part of why Halo 3 is going to be something else. RE4 is the nearly the exact same game.
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
KeithFranklin said:
If Nintendo can produce shovelware why cant 3rd parties? WiiPlay is the epitome of shovelware and it constantly is the top selling Wii title.

This is what pisses me off about the Wii and the Nintendo faithful. Wii software is a joke or simply a last gen game and even the crap titles are celebrated when they sell well.

WiiPlay is lame or admit it is is a cheap deal on the #1 accessory and nothing more.
Mario Party 8 is lame yet sales are celebrated. Did you celebrate "Enter the Matrix" sales? It got better reviews.
RE4 Wii is just a GC game with new controls.
TP is just a GC game with new controls.
Paper Mario is just a GC game with new controls.

Sure the big 3 will sell well this fall, but primarily because the Nintendo faithful will insure that. Will they also sell to the new so called casual gamer. Just because of a spectacular marketing of the Wii doesnt mean they will also automatically love and lust after the traditional Nintendo big titles.
Who's celebrating Wii Play? It's bought because it's essentially a $10 budget title, and most people see it as such. People don't get riled up because they find it understandable. Mario Party 8 is much more dividing. The only ones who are celebrating that are the ones who like it, so they have a right to celebrate it. Nintendo fans who hate the game don't cheer for it. They are just as perplexed becuase of its success as anyone else. I don't think people make the disctinction between that and Red Steel or Rayman, a few other very ambivalent titles.

I don't see the point in listing Paper Mario or Zelda. Paper Mario could only be bought on the Wii, and Zelda was essentially positioned for the Wii. No one really thinks of it as a GC title first and foremost anymore. I mean you touched on what the Wii basically is: GC+ graphics with new controls. It's not difficult to understand that that's where the appeal lies.

Metroid Prime 3 has no chance of reaching far into the casual market since it's not a casual game, but are you sure Mario and SSB have no chance? Mario traditionally sells over ten million copies because of the casual fan. All but Sunshine did that much, and Sunshine saw a dip in and of itself because it could only sell to the Nintendo gamer. A lot of casuals and lapsed gamers used to play Mario. Nintendo could totally bring them back the way they've positioned the Wii.
 
Dies Iræ said:
That's a double edged sword. While it's true that Wii cannot play 360/PS3 ports, it's also true the other way around. Most third party games on Wii will be exclusive, and since support will soon rise dramatically, it means this generation will be even more painful for 360/PS3 than it would have been had Wii been more powerful. Nintendo really nailed this one.

Is this true? Will there be a massive upswing in Wii 3rd party support for the Wii? I admit that I have not closely followed Wii software sales but is there a history of multi-platform 3rd party Wii games outselling the same games on the 360 and PS3? Does GAf predict that 3rd party support for the 360 and PS3 will drop now that the Wii is moving good amount of hardware?

The Dark One
 
Vyer said:
Well at least someone is still holding on to the 'Nintendo faithful are making it #1!' line. ;) Just kidding.

Here's a few thoughts:

Apparently a lot of people find the Wii fun. (that aren't just 'Nintendo faithful')
Apparently a lot of people find Wii Sports fun.(that aren't just 'Nintendo faithful')
TP is still a new release.
Paper Mario is still a new release.
You know those games that have been around a while, or are GC games put on the Wii? Guess who didn't play them on the GC and probably doesn't even have a GC, so they'd be buying them now? (I'll give you a hint: that answer doesn't start with 'Nintendo' and end with 'faithful'. :D )

I'll give you WiiPlay but hey - cheaper controller.

You can't also call games that are highly reviewed (such as TP and PM) or games that are big hitters aka The Big 3 'shovelware'. It doesn't work that way.

Face it, man. Lots of people want the Wii (and by default games for it) and they aren't just people who bought Gamecubes. THAT'S also a big reason the software is even selling at all.

Ok to clarify the shovelware comments applied to MP8 and WiiPlay.

Are new releases simply all that is needed to celebrate good sales? If MS or Sony put some crappy title along with a controller and called the package the name of the game and get free controller do any of you believe that it was the game that caused the sale? If MS took Halo added XBOX Live play to it and sold it would that be something to truly get excited about when it had great sales?

As for sales sure a great deal of the sales were to Nintendo faithful. Nintendo deliberatly released TP on the Wii first to force Nintendo Zelda addicts to try and get a Wii to be able to play it. Metroid Prime 3 sales will be high simply because of Nintendo faithful, same with Mario and Smash Brothers. Nintendo doesnt need the non Nintendo faithful for these titles to sell great.
 

Dies Iræ

Member
DarkMage619 said:
Is this true? Will there be a massive upswing in Wii 3rd party support for the Wii? I admit that I have not closely followed Wii software sales but is there a history of multi-platform 3rd party Wii games outselling the same games on the 360 and PS3? Does GAf predict that 3rd party support for the 360 and PS3 will drop now that the Wii is moving good amount of hardware?

The Dark One

Seriously?

Do I need to answer this when the answer is in this thread?

Just look at the software sales yourself.
 

jarrod

Banned
KeithFranklin said:
Wasnt saying RE4 was made by Nintendo. The difference between RE4 Wii and Halo 3 is that RE4 is just a GC game with updated controls. Halo 3 is nowhere close to Halo 2 with better graphics. As beautiful as Halo 3 looks that is just a minor part of why Halo 3 is going to be something else. RE4 is the nearly the exact same game.
Saying "Halo 3 is just an Xbox game with better graphics" sounds reasonably close to your claim about Super Paper Mario though.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
DarkMage619 said:
Is this true? Will there be a massive upswing in Wii 3rd party support for the Wii? I admit that I have not closely followed Wii software sales but is there a history of multi-platform 3rd party Wii games outselling the same games on the 360 and PS3? Does GAf predict that 3rd party support for the 360 and PS3 will drop now that the Wii is moving good amount of hardware?

The Dark One
I've been suggesting/predicting that this would occur for months now.

The days of 360/PS3 are nearly f*cking over thanks to the Wii...but there is still SOME hope. As someone noted, all 360 titles in the top 20 are 3rd party games and there are a LOT of 360 games being released this fall. Provided the 360 software actually sells well this fall, the amount of investment already placed into the hardware should keep 3rd parties producing software for it.

The PS3 is already dead, but it may hang around for a bit simply because software can be ported over from 360 for an extra buck (with the PC also helping out here).

The best Wii games being released this fall are Nintendo published titles. If 360 software can light up the charts while most of the Wii software selling is limited to 1st party Nintendo games (with minimal 3rd party sales), things may just be alright. The Wii will continue to sell and 3rd parties will continue to offer more and more support...but the 360 might hang on.

I love throwing out extremes with people claiming I'm over-reacting but it seems that my doom and gloom may have been right.
 
PistolGrip said:
6 5 RESISTANCE: FALL OF MAN SONY COMPUTER ENT. Nov-06

Resistance has some legs
^ another poster worthy optimist.

there's always a bright side!

just be careful to restrain your optimism a bit. if someone's dick falls off, don't tell them 'well if you think about it, now you can't get aids!'.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
KeithFranklin said:
Ok to clarify the shovelware comments applied to MP8 and WiiPlay.
Mario Party games are shovelware now? To quote Dragona from the Media Create thread:

Dragona Akehi said:
I really don't get the hate for Mario Party games: they're amazing multiplayer titles, and are great for n00bs and nerds alike. The only caveat I have is that I'd never buy all of them: I only have Mario Party 6, and will probably pass on the next few Mario Parties until something "big" happens (or my mates and I get completely sick of the boards in 6).

I've always shared Dragona's stance on the games. Sure it's the 8th game in the series, but it's the first game for the Wii. I've bought 2 MP games, but only one each per console (N64, GC).
 
dark10x said:
I've been suggesting/predicting that this would occur for months now.

The days of 360/PS3 are nearly f*cking over thanks to the Wii...but there is still SOME hope. As someone noted, all 360 titles in the top 20 are 3rd party games and there are a LOT of 360 games being released this fall. Provided the 360 software actually sells well this fall, the amount of investment already placed into the hardware should keep 3rd parties producing software for it.

The PS3 is already dead, but it may hang around for a bit simply because software can be ported over from 360 for an extra buck (with the PC also helping out here).

The best Wii games being released this fall are Nintendo published titles. If 360 software can light up the charts while most of the Wii software selling is limited to 1st party Nintendo games (with minimal 3rd party sales), things may just be alright. The Wii will continue to sell and 3rd parties will continue to offer more and more support...but the 360 might hang on.

I love throwing out extremes with people claiming I'm over-reacting but it seems that my doom and gloom may have been right.
all the kinds of games you love are going to sell just great this winter. people that make those kind of games will have no reason for concern.

i pinky swear.
 

Mudhoney

Member
KeithFranklin said:
Wasnt saying RE4 was made by Nintendo. The difference between RE4 Wii and Halo 3 is that RE4 is just a GC game with updated controls. Halo 3 is nowhere close to Halo 2 with better graphics. As beautiful as Halo 3 looks that is just a minor part of why Halo 3 is going to be something else. RE4 is the nearly the exact same game.
Eh, it wasn't smart to compare Halo 3 and RE4: Wii Edition in the first place (to the guy that quoted you).

Anyways, I find it surprising that you would doubt the sales of Nintendo's big 3 when even RE4:Wii is selling quite well, and will definitely breeze past Capcom's expected worldwide sales if it hasn't already. Also, in North America, Twilight Princess sold great as well. Obviously there is a market for Nintendo's big first party titles and hardcore third-party games on Wii, no matter how you look at the demographic. Be it new gamers, 'Nintendo faithful' or *gasp* the normal everyday people who buy video game systems but aren't on NeoGAF and can't be categorized and generalized!
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
DarkMage619 said:
Is this true? Will there be a massive upswing in Wii 3rd party support for the Wii? I admit that I have not closely followed Wii software sales but is there a history of multi-platform 3rd party Wii games outselling the same games on the 360 and PS3? Does GAf predict that 3rd party support for the 360 and PS3 will drop now that the Wii is moving good amount of hardware?

The Dark One

It has varied from game to game. Madden and Spiderman 3 sold better on 360/PS3. The Wii version of Harry Potter stomped on all of the other versions. Transformers has sold relative to the userbases (PS2, 360, Wii, PS3). Many other games like TMNT, Ratatouille, Godfather (PS3/Wii), Surf's Up, Meet the Robinsons, and Fantastic Four haven't charted anywhere so it's difficult to tell.

A big, big factor is perception. If people perceive that the Wii version is the one to get or the best version, people will get it.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
plagiarize said:
all the kinds of games you love are going to sell just great this winter. people that make those kind of games will have no reason for concern.

i pinky swear.
With the way things have been going lately, I really have to wonder.

I must admit, however, that I was beyond pleased by the reception of Bioshock. You know how much I enjoyed their previous work AND love that particular segment of the FPS genre. The fact that one of those games is finally looking to have both commercial and critical success on a large scale is incredibly exciting.

This fall is what it all comes down to and I'm going to spend quite a bit supporting the efforts of these developers.
 
dextran said:
Can someone remind me what I have to look forward to for my PS3 between the months of October & December?
Uncharted. Ratchet and Clank. Those should be a lot safer bets than LAIR and Heavenly Swords.
dark10x said:
With the way things have been going lately, I really have to wonder.

I must admit, however, that I was beyond pleased by the reception of Bioshock. You know how much I enjoyed their previous work AND love that particular segment of the FPS genre. The fact that one of those games is finally looking to have both commercial and critical success on a large scale is incredibly exciting.

This fall is what it all comes down to and I'm going to spend quite a bit supporting the efforts of these developers.
oh god yeah. i mean i don't see how anyone with a heart can't be glad to see Bioshock sell like crazy, when it's a game from a group of people with a history of making brilliant games that didn't get the sales they deserved.

i think it's also a segment of the FPS genre that hasn't had a break out hit before... so it's doubly good in how likely it makes for it to grow.
 

Vyer

Member
KeithFranklin said:
Ok to clarify the shovelware comments applied to MP8 and WiiPlay.

Are new releases simply all that is needed to celebrate good sales? If MS or Sony put some crappy title along with a controller and called the package the name of the game and get free controller do any of you believe that it was the game that caused the sale? If MS took Halo added XBOX Live play to it and sold it would that be something to truly get excited about when it had great sales?

As mentioned above you keep harping on WiiPlay but most people are well aware of what that situation is. Not many folks 'celebrate' that I don't think.

Other than that, I'm not sure what you are asking here. Are you just talking about Sales Age reactions? Surely you recognize a small portion of the gaming population that represents?

Not too mention that, as I pointed out, a lot of those new releases are still highly rated. They are good games and yes, people tend to look for that.

Beyond that, the rest is common sense. If you want a system to have a good future, and better and better games, you want it to do well early to attract the developers. And you want it to show the publishers that they can make money on it somehow. That's the whole point. Pretty self explanatory.

As for sales sure a great deal of the sales were to Nintendo faithful. Nintendo deliberatly released TP on the Wii first to force Nintendo Zelda addicts to try and get a Wii to be able to play it. Metroid Prime 3 sales will be high simply because of Nintendo faithful, same with Mario and Smash Brothers. Nintendo doesnt need the non Nintendo faithful for these titles to sell great.

Ok, I guess you are still kind of sticking with this. It's close to over, man. The 'only the Nintendo fans are buying the Wii!' boat has almost sailed IMO. It's time to embrace the idea that the Wii is just actually popular.
 

Jiggy

Member
KeithFranklin said:
This is what pisses me off about the Wii and the Nintendo faithful. Wii software is a joke or simply a last gen game and even the crap titles are celebrated when they sell well.

WiiPlay is lame or admit it is is a cheap deal on the #1 accessory and nothing more.
Mario Party 8 is lame yet sales are celebrated. Did you celebrate "Enter the Matrix" sales? It got better reviews.
RE4 Wii is just a GC game with new controls.
TP is just a GC game with new controls.
Paper Mario is just a GC game with new controls.
This is some kind of wild prediction, but I'm guessing that most people judge games to be "crap" or "a joke" when they're boring, which has nothing to do with the hardware they originated on.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Vyer said:
Ok, I guess you are still kind of sticking with this. It's close to over, man. The 'only the Nintendo fans are buying the Wii!' boat has almost sailed IMO. It's time to embrace the idea that the Wii is just actually popular.
That argument's never going to go away until the Wii passes the GC's LTD sales.

Then again, someone may bring up the difference between N64 and GC sales stating there's still a bunch of Nintendo fans out there that never picked up a GC and are now getting a Wii...
 
KeithFranklin said:
As for sales sure a great deal of the sales were to Nintendo faithful. Nintendo deliberatly released TP on the Wii first to force Nintendo Zelda addicts to try and get a Wii to be able to play it. Metroid Prime 3 sales will be high simply because of Nintendo faithful, same with Mario and Smash Brothers. Nintendo doesnt need the non Nintendo faithful for these titles to sell great.

This argument is very tired and needs to be put to bed.

I'm one of many people on this board that purchased TP in early November to play on Wii and then couldn't find one. I had the damn game and accessories for four months before I was able to get one. If you and others still believe that it's Nintendo Fandom that's driving Wii sales then you're severely deluded.
 

Vyer

Member
dark10x said:
I love throwing out extremes with people claiming I'm over-reacting but it seems that my doom and gloom may have been right.

The whole of the rest of your post proved how your doom and gloom is over-reacting (as most folks have been telling you and other 'Sky is Falling' guys). 360 software success, Bioshock reception, etc.
 
dark10x said:
I've been suggesting/predicting that this would occur for months now.

The days of 360/PS3 are nearly f*cking over thanks to the Wii...but there is still SOME hope. As someone noted, all 360 titles in the top 20 are 3rd party games and there are a LOT of 360 games being released this fall. Provided the 360 software actually sells well this fall, the amount of investment already placed into the hardware should keep 3rd parties producing software for it.

The PS3 is already dead, but it may hang around for a bit simply because software can be ported over from 360 for an extra buck (with the PC also helping out here).

The best Wii games being released this fall are Nintendo published titles. If 360 software can light up the charts while most of the Wii software selling is limited to 1st party Nintendo games (with minimal 3rd party sales), things may just be alright. The Wii will continue to sell and 3rd parties will continue to offer more and more support...but the 360 might hang on.

I love throwing out extremes with people claiming I'm over-reacting but it seems that my doom and gloom may have been right.

The other side of that coin is that third parties will continue to saturate the 360 market while Nintendo gobbles up the overall software sales across all region as the Wii continues to gobble up marketshare, even surpassing both HD consoles combined by a considerable margin. The 360 is safe for now but it can only support so much and I think we're seeing the peak of this capacity this holiday into the next year.
 
JonathanEx said:
So Super Paper Mario changed systems when in development. Happens to a bunch of games, but its not used as a negative point on those.

Super Paper Mario changed systems yet, but Super Paper Mario didnt get upgraded massivly like you would expect going from one generation to the next like you would expect from a tier 1 title.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
My soon to be Dreamcasted PS3 arrives from FedEx in an hour. :lol Seriously, PS3's pricetag pretty much doomed it from the announcement. Meh, so long as I get my GT5, I'm fine. It's definitely laughable though.

OTOH, Nintendo is just killing it. I always wondered what they could do if they had Playstation-level sales with their crazy profit model. Fuckers really are printing money. Wow! Fucking Nintendo. PEACE.
 
Saint Gregory said:
This argument is very tired and needs to be put to bed.

I'm one of many people on this board that purchased TP in early November to play on Wii and then couldn't find one. I had the damn game and accessories for four months before I was able to get one. If you and others still believe that it's Nintendo Fandom that's driving Wii sales then you're severly deluded.

You just proved my point when it comes to the traditional Nintendo titles. The Nintendo fandom will insure those titles sell great. You dont need the new customers to make those titles sell great. Also the great sales of these titles doesnt mean that Wii sales will go through the roof (any more than they already are).
 

ex0du5

Banned
T Ghost said:
Exactly. It's not that there's no way for 3rds to make big cash on Wii games but simply that the quality bar on the Nintendo consoles consumer's mind is WAAAAY higher than on any other console because of the historical Nintendo's 1st pty releases quality.

i lol'd
 

No6

Member
ZealousD said:
The Wii version of Harry Potter stomped on all of the other versions.
It did? HP may have shown up in the Wii top 10, but at 9th place you're basically looking at really small numbers across the board. Like sub-50k.
 

JJConrad

Sucks at viral marketing
The problem with banning gifs is that they're just people's way of expressing their joy or shock, etc. The first couple pages are still mostly covered in "WOW", =:eek: and :( ... but at least the gifs are entertaining. I could understand limiting the size of each gif, but I'd rather the gifs stay and the "OMGOMGOMGOGMOGMGMMMMMMMoo!!!!!!!1" are banned.


AdmiralViscen said:
I don't think an XBot has argued with indie.
You didn't read the rest of this thread.


A lot of the emotions are based around the PS3 not outselling the 360 ... but would an extra 12k really have made a difference? The reality of the PS3's situation wouldn't have changed if it had outsold the 360. It would have been a notch on a fanboy's belt and nothing else. Nobody expected it to last more than one month ... not even spwolf ... and the system outperformed most of our expectations. If it's dead ... fine, but this NPD doesn't really prove that.

Sony's problem right now isn't outselling the 360. It's making the PS3 look like a viable platform to developers and gamers. They've doubled sales and, judging by the Gamestop conference call, sales are stabilizing at that higher rate. That should be very encouraging.

Then there's the 360... All of this celebration is over not being last. There is a marginal sales difference between it and PS3, yet one is "dead" and the other is "amazing." It doesn't make logical sense. The 360's software sale are better, but there not any better than the PS2's or Wii's ... so we're back to celebrating over not being last. It's silly... fun, but silly.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Exactly. It's not that there's no way for 3rds to make big cash on Wii games but simply that the quality bar on the Nintendo consoles consumer's mind is WAAAAY higher than on any other console because of the historical Nintendo's 1st pty releases quality.
The quality bar? Really?

*looks at sales charts*

Again...the quality bar?!?!
 

pr0cs

Member
PistolGrip said:
6 5 RESISTANCE: FALL OF MAN SONY COMPUTER ENT. Nov-06

Resistance has some legs

When everyone is in a wheelchair with one of those "special" helmets on it's not hard to have legs.
 

PkunkFury

Member
KeithFranklin said:
Ok to clarify the shovelware comments applied to MP8 and WiiPlay.

Are new releases simply all that is needed to celebrate good sales? If MS or Sony put some crappy title along with a controller and called the package the name of the game and get free controller do any of you believe that it was the game that caused the sale? If MS took Halo added XBOX Live play to it and sold it would that be something to truly get excited about when it had great sales?

I think you'll find very few people on this forum bragging about Wii Play. We all understand that the game is a $10 tech demo for the controller. It was never meant to be any more. If you've played it, you'd know that it's actually structured to show all of the remote's functions to people who don't understand what's going on. It's hardly shovelware, as it does exactly what it was designed to do, with a couple of fun games to boot.

The distinction, as far as what's causing the sale, is that the people who are buying Wii Play could just as easily buy a solo controller. This wasn't the case the month it released, but it's absolutely interesting to see the staying power it has on these charts. In the eyes of the public, it is apparently worth it to pay an extra $10 dollars to get a cheap-o game with an already expensive controller. As for the quality of Wii Play, I'm not going to argue it's an incredible game, but to say it's not worth the price over the standard controller is just as disingenuous. I think it has like nine mini-games on it, and most people would site one or two of them (probably tanks) as being worth the price.

I could try to compare it to the games bundled with an Eyetoy, suggesting that perhaps people are more interested in the camera than the game. Or I could cut a different route and cry afoul with baseless assertions that most people bought Crackdown for a Halo Beta. In the end, it really doesn't matter. The fact is that consumers are making the choice to purchase these bundles for one component or another. If folks were really buying Crackdowm for the Halo Beta, then MS could've sold the Beta alone for the same price. If folks really didn't want to buy Wii Play, they'd have bought a Wii Remote on its own. The only people who care about these sales, aside from the companies making money from the, are the people who see it as a strike against them on sales charts. To everyone else who's actually buying the products, it's probably seen as a value
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
No6 said:
It did? HP may have shown up in the Wii top 10, but at 9th place you're basically looking at really small numbers across the board. Like sub-50k.

Pretty much. All the other versions of Harry Potter have pretty much sold like ass. I think only the PS2 version came close.
 

Evlar

Banned
Fun with release dates!

OK, seeing the top ten per hardware data from sonycowboy gave me an idea. Each title is listed with the date (month and year) of its release, which allows us to analyze how long the top ten titles for each system have been on the market. I've compiled the data and arrived at the following:

Code:
SOFTWARE SHELFLIFE OF TOP TEN GAMES, PER SYSTEM

Platform    | Months on Market (avg) |  Avg Release Date
------------|------------------------|------------------
 Wii        |                    3.4 |    21 April 2007
 360        |                    3.0 |       3 May 2007
 PS2        |                    3.6 |    15 April 2007
 PS3        |                    2.9 |       6 May 2007
 NDS        |                    8.3 |      24 Nov 2006
 PSP        |                   12.9 |      6 July 2006
 GBA        |                   35.0 |       3 Sep 2004
 NPD TOP 20 |                    2.8 |      11 May 2007
What I've done is calculated how long each title in each top ten list has been on the market (as of August 4, 2007) and then found the average age, or shelf-life, of the top selling games for each system. For instance, the Wii has 7 games released in the past three months and three others that were released months before that, but on average those top ten Wii games have been around for about three and a half months. I've listed an "Avg. Release Date" just as a guide to the kind of timespans we're dealing with.

Since this is a snapshot of just the top ten games for each platform (and the NPD Top 20) we aren't getting a view of the entire profile of games sold in July. We are, however, seeing how often new games (which I will roughly categorize as "released in the last 3 months") and old games (everything else). Top ten/twenty lists are composed of a stream of hot new games constantly popping up near the top of sales charts as they are released, muscling out old games and each other, while simultaneously a small number of certain older games, the so-called AAA sales champions, struggle to push back up into the rankings.

Everyone here should know that the software market is cyclical and the cycle is dominated by the holiday sales season stretching from October through mid-December. July is at the bottom of the cycle and follows typical drought months. We might expect the big AAA titles from last December to still be making a showing, and they do: On the home console side that games from last Holiday season have been marginalized in the top tens, but a handful are still there.

Looking first at the NPD Top 20 we see that the late spring/summer software releases have been dominating, which may be a bit surprising considering the traditionally sparse release schedule. The overall Top 20 also has a faster turnaround than any of the individual top ten lists, though PS3 comes very close. In fact, all four of the major home consoles have a rather short shelf life, averaging less than 4 months, meaning publishers could expect their high-profile games to peak early and sink fairly rapidly. The real standout is the PS2: Here is a platform which is over seven years old with a VAST back-catalog of some of the best games ever made in a dozen different genres, yet the development environment is still vibrant enough that consumers feel compelled to buy new titles over old (of course there will be many older PS2 titles further down the list but we're limited to the bestsellers here). PS2 game development is still viable.

What's not viable is the GBA, which shows all the signs of a dead system. The average release date is nearly three years old! The oldest game in the top ten this month was released in June 2001. These are being purchased by bargain hunters or new gamers (probably children) who are just now buying a GBA or finding themselves in the market for very old games. Here's a chart showing the age of the oldest game in each list:
Code:
AGE OF OLDEST GAME IN TOP TEN, PER SYSTEM

Platform    | Months on Market (max) | Earliest Release Date
------------|------------------------|----------------------
 Wii        |                      9 |             Nov 2006
 360        |                      9 |             Nov 2006
 PS2        |                      9 |             Nov 2006
 PS3        |                      9 |             Nov 2006
 NDS        |                     21 |             Nov 2005
 PSP        |                     26 |            June 2005
 GBA        |                     74 |            June 2001
 NPD TOP 20 |                      9 |             Nov 2006
Let's look at the contrasting situation of the DS and the PSP. The PSP is in trouble while the DS is not, though the shelf-life of their software doesn't look all that different. This is perhaps the one way that DS and PSP are very similar; both see sales patterns that emphasize the back catalog (compare that to the home console market where new games dominate). The DS has an average game shelf-life of 8.3 months and is evidently experiencing a drought in new game sales right now, which is easily explained by looking at the sparse release list, but our alarm over that fact should be balanced by recognizing the strength of the DS back catalog. Consumers who are still interesting in exploring that catalog are being well served while consumers looking for new content may be frustrated.

PSP's situation is worse. The average shelf-life is 12.9 months, or over a year. The system is pushing old games, but looking at the list of games actually listed in its top ten and comparing it to the overall top twenty we see that even those are pretty slow. Either very few new games are being released or the ones that are released struggle to outsell the likes of a 20-month-old game like Star Wars: Battlefront II, which is troubling. Here's a chart showing the number of new titles, defined as released in the three months prior to August 4, in each top ten list:
Code:
NUMBER OF NEW (3 MONTHS OR LESS) TITLES IN TOP TEN, PER SYSTEM

Platform    | No. New Titles | New Titles Ratio (percent)
------------|----------------|---------------------------
 Wii        |              7 |              7 / 10 = 70%
 360        |              8 |              8 / 10 = 80%
 PS2        |              7 |              7 / 10 = 70%
 PS3        |              8 |              8 / 10 = 80%
 NDS        |              4 |              4 / 10 = 40%
 PSP        |              3 |              3 / 10 = 30%
 GBA        |              0 |                      None
 NPD TOP 20 | 15 (out of 20) |             15 / 20 = 75%
PSP new titles sales aren't dead but I would categorize them as dormant. DS is likewise underperforming, but the expectations are higher (new games are being compared to DS's multi-platinum star performers). All the home consoles are doing very well at pushing new games, including the incredible PS2. And the GBA is dead.
 

jarrod

Banned
KeithFranklin said:
Super Paper Mario changed systems yet, but Super Paper Mario didnt get upgraded massivly like you would expect going from one generation to the next like you would expect from a tier 1 title.
Actually, it had some core design reworkings... particularly the pixl interactions. Have you played it actually?
 
Christ, this has taken a while to catch up to where I left off.

So, does anyone have any guesses as to when Wii will go from a plurality to a majority, both stateside and worldwide? I'm guessing approximantely 6 months.

Shrimpboat said:
Do you have to be under 12 to post here? What's with all the Sony hate? How many PS3s were they supposed to sell at $500, the sales went up 100%, that's bad? I noticed that NCAA sales were like a 2.4x ratio for 360 to PS3, with over a 4x install base. So I guess software does sell on the Ps3?

Take your complaints to Sony. According to them, they should have been able to sell 5 million without software.
 
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