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[Stinkles]

Obama Administration waiting for proof makes no sense. There's a ton of rock-solid evidence and even Gulen himself has actual statements for the coup attempt.

You should provide links to those statements forthwith then.

 

[commedieu]

Extradition and sentencing requires proof. Give us the proof, not your national delusions a la DPRK.

So did the Iraq war. Dudes a goner.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Uhu. So its not really about "proof" and the "rule of law" after all, eh. It's about posturing, like i said.

It's about both a bit. But you can't extradite without a reason, and Turkey has yet to give one. They haven't even sent any evidence to the US that is relevant to the case, so what exactly do you expect the US to do? Any country would expect some kind of relevant case to be brought to them in order to extradite someone from their country.

Do you have any evidence to show? Because I can't find it anywhere.

So did the Iraq war. Dudes a goner.

How is this relevant? And what does it have to do with the Obama administration? Last time I checked, that stuff started a bit before Obama got into power or even became a senator.

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

Heh, just like how the US brought the Egyptian coup plotters to justice? Oh wait, they actually succeeded in their goal of overthrowing Morsi. Had the Turkish plotters prevailed Obama would have been in Ankara a few weeks later kissing the asses of the new leadership.

It's the Dardanelles. We would be friends with Zombie Hitler if he controlled the Dardanelles. Realpolitik.

 

[NyMartin90]

Any country would expect some kind of relevant case to be brought to them in order to extradite someone from their country.

How is this relevant? And what does it have to do with the Obama administration? Last time I checked, that stuff started a bit before Obama got into power or even became a senator.

I think they're referencing the policy the US has pursued for the last 15 years. In the last 15 years there are thousands of cases of people being falsely extradited from countries like Pakistan, Jordan, Afghanistan, etc. to the United States on the basis of strong/ false suspicions to terror links, but many times there were false suspicions.
However, when the United States demands for an extradition other countries have one of two options give in to the United States and cooperate or be labelled as a supporter of terror. There are many of these "suspects" who are detained without charges and then sent back after but obviously not widely known the specifics.

Point is here that when the US asks for extraditions its a different ballgame, whether proof is involved or not. Power and stature play a large role.

I'm not saying Gulen was behind it but I do think that elements in the army, may have had Hizmet links, acted rashly, independent, and unprepared to quickly perform the coup when they saw that many Hizmet affiliated officers and soldiers were being disbanded during Erdogan's gradual consolidation of power in the months leading to the coup.

 

[Haunted]

Erdogan is fucking dangerous. I don't really know the best way to handle him right now, since Turkey is so geo-strategically important.

 

[nubbe]

NATO should start pull out of Turkey, like immediately

 

[oti]

NATO should start pull out of Turkey, like immediately

That makes zero sense.

 

[skny]

Man I wish both Erdogan and Gulen never existed. Turkey would be in a much better place right now. Both are trying to turn Turkey into an Islamic State, one has failed hopefully the other one does too.

 

[Piecake]

Well the US will do as they please. I'm just saying that they aren't doing it from the moral high ground, or because "they need proof".
If they want to hand him over they'll do it regardless of proof, and if they don't they won't. Regardless of proof.

This is a bunch of nonsense.

The US government can't extradite people without sufficient evidence because that would be breaking US law. I am sure the US would love to hand over Gullen if there was evidence of their involvement because it would improve US-Turkey relations and eliminate some of the nonsense that the coup was some American-CIA plot.

 

[hokahey]

I thought their constitution allowed for coups...? Why does anyone need to be brought to justice?

 

[jorma]

This is a bunch of nonsense.

The US government can't extradite people without sufficient evidence because that would be breaking US law. I am sure the US would love to hand over Gullen if there was evidence of their involvement because it would improve US-Turkey relations and eliminate some of the nonsense that the coup was some American-CIA plot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

 

[Piecake]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

What's your point? That the US are hypocrites? That still doesn't change the fact that the US can't extradite someone from the US without evidence since that is counter to US law.

 

[BajiBoxer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

Who cares? It's still not relevant to Gulen or the failed coup. Last reports I saw, Turkey submitted an extradition request that had nothing to do with the coup. If your government can't even manage that much, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

NATO should start pull out of Turkey, like immediately

rofl

yea ok

 

[jorma]

What's your point? That the US are hypocrites? That still doesn't change the fact that the US can't extradite someone from the US without evidence since that is counter to US law.

My point is that the US obviously don't really care about the law. How is that not evident? Politicians will settle this because of political reasons.

 

[FStop7]

Gulen is either a resident alien or a US citizen. Either way, if the federal government agrees to extradite him it will be fought in the courts. For years.

 

[Saganator]

NATO should start pull out of Turkey, like immediately

Yeah not gonna happen. Where else are we gonna park all our tanks and planes?

 

[Piecake]

My point is that the US obviously don't really care about the law. How is that not evident? Politicians will settle this because of political reasons.

There is a difference between US Law and International Law/Law of other nations. The US certainly cares about US Law.

And even if they don't care about US Law (they do), Turkey went about this in an unbelievably stupid way. Turkey basically painted the US into a corner where if they gave up Gulen they would look pathetically weak. Now, that might be good for local Turkish politics, but it isn't good if you actually want Gulen extradited back to Turkey. Not only does the US need evidence to actually extradite someone from the US, they also need it to save face so that they aren't seen as pathetically weak.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

So us Secularist anti-government and anti-Erdogan Turks are part of the national delusion too? How does that work?

The Secularist Turkish intelligentsia were warning about Gulen back when Erdogan was buddy buddy with them in the 00s. If the Secularist Westernised Europhile Islamophobic etc. intelligentsia of Turkey are not to be trusted on this matter, then who is for goodness sake?

This issue is complicated. Don't think there's no proof for Gulen just because Erdogan is after Gulen. Because it feels like you are adopting an attitude of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Albeit that's the exact same attitude Secular Turks are taking as well in reverse (Erdogan is the lesser of 2 evils compared with Gulen).

Show the receipts and he'll be handed over.

"We know they did it" sounds like the accusation of a third grader.

You know that guantanamo bay is still open. Should be enough evidence that "proof" is not actually required for either of those things.

Your whataboutism is wholly irrelevant and completely goddamn useless.

This is a bunch of nonsense.

The US government can't extradite people without sufficient evidence because that would be breaking US law. I am sure the US would love to hand over Gullen if there was evidence of their involvement because it would improve US-Turkey relations and eliminate some of the nonsense that the coup was some American-CIA plot.

Correcto.

Probably an Armenian-American-CIA plot though TBH.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The Erdostans are pretty fervent on gaf and delusional.

I'm also not really sure what Putin has to offer Turkey and how they'll ever form a close relationship when they are actively supporting conflicting sides in Syria.

 

[petran79]

Economic relations especially when it comes to tourism.
Strong supporter against Syria situation.

Turkey are also considering joining Russia-China-Iran national currency trade agreement, to skip the dollar

 

[ironcreed]

Anyone who supports Turkey is a mad man... period.

 

[PatThePassive]

The US should cut relations with (Insert sovereign state doing shitty thing) group is delusional.

I get upset hearing about the latest shitty thing Saudi Arabia or Israel is doing too but I know the US isn't gonna just cut ties with that state because I don't approve of what they are doing.

 

[jorma]

Show the receipts and he'll be handed over.

"We know they did it" sounds like the accusation of a third grader.

Your whataboutism is wholly irrelevant and completely goddamn useless.

Correcto.

Probably an Armenian-American-CIA plot though TBH.

It's not fucking "whataboutism" to point out that the US is doing exactly what you claim they can't do becasue "they aren't north korea". Your cognitive dissonance is baffling to all the political scientists.

 

[Stereogatari]

The Erdostans are pretty fervent on gaf and delusional.

I'm as far from an Erdostan as you can get.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Also this image from G20 speaks volumes about Erdogan's new relationship with Russia, with Russia being the first country he visited after the coup.

Pretty cool of Merkel to rock the Dr. Evil cosplay.