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One of Us - Netflix documentary about the Hasidic community from Jesus Camp directors
- Thread starter jack_package_200
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Brian Griffin
Member
I knew Hasidic Jews were very religious and very strict but I seems they are mush worse than I thought. Should be an interesting and infuriating watch. Fuck religious extremists.
Interesting, I'll watch this later.
One thing to note- the Hasids are deeply sexist. Disturbingly so. They get a pass in general here in the US, but they are really bad to women.
One thing to note- the Hasids are deeply sexist. Disturbingly so. They get a pass in general here in the US, but they are really bad to women.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Had no idea. Although I don't think I've ever even seen a Hasidic person in real life. I'll definitely give this a watch, looks interesting.
Westbahnhof
Banned
Aw, it's so far away.. Onto my list it goes.
FalsettoVibe
Member
I'll give it a go.
paragonpro
Banned
I work with the hasidic community, and honestly, alot of them
Are some of the nicest people ive had the privelidge of helping at work. What goes on behind the scenes, well
We only hear rumors but from what ive noticed there seems to be a struggle between the young and the old. Alot
Of the younger people, the millenials are opting to marry
More freely. They arent as strict with how they dress and they engage eachother and other people like typical 20
Somethings. The older generation is very rigid in their ways and they see this break away nature of the younger people as damaging to their relgious ideals.
Are some of the nicest people ive had the privelidge of helping at work. What goes on behind the scenes, well
We only hear rumors but from what ive noticed there seems to be a struggle between the young and the old. Alot
Of the younger people, the millenials are opting to marry
More freely. They arent as strict with how they dress and they engage eachother and other people like typical 20
Somethings. The older generation is very rigid in their ways and they see this break away nature of the younger people as damaging to their relgious ideals.
Beer Monkey
Member
Be very glad you work with them instead of being a woman in the community.
Perfect Blue
Banned
Does the movie mention the child sex cover ups?
There was an article in Vice about it a few years back. I'm at work so someone else should find it and post it here.
There was an article in Vice about it a few years back. I'm at work so someone else should find it and post it here.
paragonpro
Banned
I couldnt imagine, it must be horrible for them. Like i said i only see whats on the outside, and generally i guess there is a friendly veil that is put up, but i couldnt imagine how they are treated behind closed doors because ive never seen if, thats why im interested in this doc, as someone who works with this community almost every day
Not familiar with the hadisic community at all, but if the child sex thing is true, they sound a lot like the "cult" in Finland, lestadiolaiset (laestecians).
I was going to bring up that there is a lot of talk about how the sexual abuses in the Hasidic community are on par with what was seen in the Catholic Church.
SolidSnakex
Member
The part with the George Bush cardboard cutout was so fucking bizarre.
Wouldn't surprise me. Seems the more sexually regressive and misogynistic a group is, the more deviant their members are behind closed doors.
Come to Lakewood, NJ. You'll never be back
The community is also responsible for massive welfare fraud.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/articl..._several_others_nabbed_in_fbi_raid_over_w.amp
Risible
Member
This occurred near me. Fucked up shit: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/534/a-not-so-simple-majority
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
A big problem with ultra orthodox communities like this is a concept called Mesirah. It is a considered a crime to report a jew to a non-jewish authority. The source of the ban on reporting a fellow jew to any non-jewish authority or persons is traced back to Bava Kamma (HE:בבא קמא
section of the Babylonian Talmud. To give context this is the Oral Talmud that was passed on orally, which wasn't written down until 70 CE (35 years since Jesus' death and resurrection).
"Whoever adjudicates in a non-Jewish court ... is wicked and it is as though he has reviled, blasphemed and rebelled against the law of Moses."
": "It is forbidden to hand over a Jew to the heathen, neither his person nor his goods, even if he is wicked and a sinner, even if he causes distress and pain to fellow-Jews. Whoever hands over a Jew to the heathen has no part in the next world. It is permitted to kill a moser (informant) wherever he is. It is even permitted to kill him before he has handed over (a fellow Jew)."
And this of course leads why hidden sex abuse scandals and other crimes are so bad in the Hasidic community.
The only leeway given to Mesirah was a written set of Jewish laws in 1563 which allows testifying against another Jew in a gentile court, with the reason being given that it will be obvious if all Jews were conspiring to cover for each other in a gentile court.
section of the Babylonian Talmud. To give context this is the Oral Talmud that was passed on orally, which wasn't written down until 70 CE (35 years since Jesus' death and resurrection). "Whoever adjudicates in a non-Jewish court ... is wicked and it is as though he has reviled, blasphemed and rebelled against the law of Moses."
": "It is forbidden to hand over a Jew to the heathen, neither his person nor his goods, even if he is wicked and a sinner, even if he causes distress and pain to fellow-Jews. Whoever hands over a Jew to the heathen has no part in the next world. It is permitted to kill a moser (informant) wherever he is. It is even permitted to kill him before he has handed over (a fellow Jew)."
And this of course leads why hidden sex abuse scandals and other crimes are so bad in the Hasidic community.
The only leeway given to Mesirah was a written set of Jewish laws in 1563 which allows testifying against another Jew in a gentile court, with the reason being given that it will be obvious if all Jews were conspiring to cover for each other in a gentile court.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
The big difference between the catholic church scandal and the Hasidic one is that the former was a powerful organization covering up abuses by their own organization's men while the scandals in the Hasidic community are an institutional cultural problem spanning their whole community.
jack_package_200
Banned
did you copy this from a PDF?
The part about not knowing how to Google really interests me. It'd be extremely difficult to shelter someone from such a massive public facing company their whole life.
Thanks. I'll take a look later today.
Thanks. I'll take a look later today.
Ah good ol' Lakewood, I hear tensions between the Hasidic and non-religious residents have been flaring up in recent years. Unfortunately I'm not expecting a happy outcome to all that.
If I am not mistaken, in one of the cases at least, a boy was being abused by a Rabbi and even the boys family was covering it up.
Insane.
Like a said, a cult.
Will definitely watch. Every couple years there seems to be a big fight on LI over Orthodox communities for one reason or another it seems. I know there have been several conflicts over the last few years in regards to school districts around the island and basically Orthodox Jews dominating the school board and gutting them. Lot of press in the papers over it.
I believe in one case from close to a decade ago the Orthodox community was accused of forcing the closure of the school district down completely and then turning around buying the school facilities and turning it into a private Yeshiva school.
And then you always hear stories about spousal and child abuse cases that are covered up. My grandfather has a few stories from his time in the FDNY about pretty blatant cover ups and people turning a blind eye to things in the city. Like one school which was in clear violation of serious fire safety codes and what reports of abuse. The real problem though is that it's hard to differentiate the fact from fiction. There is a lot of very passive and rather blatant antisemitism when it comes to Orthodox Jews. Most seem to buy into any negative story or accusation and to then pass it along.
I believe in one case from close to a decade ago the Orthodox community was accused of forcing the closure of the school district down completely and then turning around buying the school facilities and turning it into a private Yeshiva school.
And then you always hear stories about spousal and child abuse cases that are covered up. My grandfather has a few stories from his time in the FDNY about pretty blatant cover ups and people turning a blind eye to things in the city. Like one school which was in clear violation of serious fire safety codes and what reports of abuse. The real problem though is that it's hard to differentiate the fact from fiction. There is a lot of very passive and rather blatant antisemitism when it comes to Orthodox Jews. Most seem to buy into any negative story or accusation and to then pass it along.
Sickboy007
Member
I always found it fascinating how the Hasidic community rejects modernity within their ranks, but is more than ready, and even willing to engage with the outside world when it comes to things like local politics, lobbying, business dealings, etc.
I mean, they're similar in some ways to the Amish or those Russian traditionalists, but I bet you wouldn't see them owning and operating one of the largest consumer electronics stores in the world.
I mean, they're similar in some ways to the Amish or those Russian traditionalists, but I bet you wouldn't see them owning and operating one of the largest consumer electronics stores in the world.
Wag
Member
Yep. When I was a kid my Hebrew School went on a tour of the Lubavitch HQ in Brooklyn. I signed some sort of a mailing list and I got literature for years trying to get me to join.
It's funny- Jews don't proselytize but they had no problem trying to get me to join the Lubavitch.
Most Orthodox Jews don't even consider non-orthodox as Jewish.
No one knows much about them because they are far less common and far more insular than evangelicals. Same thing with abuse in the community—the Catholic Church is a lot more exposed to the outside world, so people hear about the latter and not the former, and avenues for victims are even fewer because the communities often don't answer to the authorities in the same way and you are often risking your entire community shunning you entirely.
Will be interested in seeing if the doc has more info than what I'm aware of.
I always found it fascinating how the Hasidic community rejects modernity within their ranks, but is more than ready, and even willing to engage with the outside world when it comes to things like local politics, lobbying, business dealings, etc.
I mean, they're similar in some ways to the Amish or those Russian traditionalists, but I bet you wouldn't see them owning and operating one of the largest consumer electronics stores in the world.
All the big camera stores in NY are owned by Jews. Adorama, B&H, Focus. No idea exactly how that came to be.
Unsurprisingly, B&H recently just settled a lawsuit alleging discriminatory hiring practices.
ProtomanNeo
Member
I recall hearing a story on NPR some time ago about a man who was raised in the community, and was disowned by his family. His falling out with the community began if I remember correctly because he bought a DVD and discovered he had a love for movies.
wild wild rice
Member
I will definitely watch this.
crooked spin
Member
There's been more than one story in the NYC press in recent years about Hasidic women who leave and start new lives and ultimately commit suicide. Shit's fucked.
They won't be watching.
I stayed in Brooklyn at a hotel deep deep deep in Hasidic Jew country. As in There will be times I would be the only outsider there. No one made eye contact with me, and i kept getting the cold shoulder. It made me feel like I was not wanted. I wanted to go to a bagel shop but didn't end up having the time to get one.. i was a little nervous. which is weird cause I traveled all over the world and never felt like this once ever. So interested in this!
Bill R Boggess
Member
Jesus Camp is a great documentary.
It'll piss you off but it's a well-made and eye-opening experience.
It also helped shut down their little "summer camp."
It'll piss you off but it's a well-made and eye-opening experience.
It also helped shut down their little "summer camp."
markitrons
Member
Watching what happened in Lakewood is fascinating, its like traveling through another dimension. I went to a Hasidic wedding there recently, and it was interesting to say the least. Apparently it was a HUGE deal for men and women to be at the same ceremony.
The eventual compromise was to have men and women segregated for the ceremonial portions, then women were segregated from the men for the reception, but men could choose to go to either side. So it basically became ultra orthodox men on one side of the hall separated by a barrier, while the women and couples like myself who had no idea what we were walking into were on another.
The Hasidic Jewish people in this area is, either rightly or wrongly, getting a reputation for buying up residences in a small (usually poor) town in an organized fashion, overcrowding the residences in numbers that violate local policy, flooding local town government since locals are apathetic, and reorganizing services, schools, and funding to their liking. I was riveted by the battle between the local Jewish community and the Hasidic Jewish community near where I grew up: Roosevelt
Roosevelt itself is maybe the coolest/weirdest town in NJ - it was founded as a "utopian commune." Really worth reading up on, and driving through. It looks normal on the main street, but as you turn down roads, it looks like an artist paradise.
The eventual compromise was to have men and women segregated for the ceremonial portions, then women were segregated from the men for the reception, but men could choose to go to either side. So it basically became ultra orthodox men on one side of the hall separated by a barrier, while the women and couples like myself who had no idea what we were walking into were on another.
The Hasidic Jewish people in this area is, either rightly or wrongly, getting a reputation for buying up residences in a small (usually poor) town in an organized fashion, overcrowding the residences in numbers that violate local policy, flooding local town government since locals are apathetic, and reorganizing services, schools, and funding to their liking. I was riveted by the battle between the local Jewish community and the Hasidic Jewish community near where I grew up: Roosevelt
Roosevelt itself is maybe the coolest/weirdest town in NJ - it was founded as a "utopian commune." Really worth reading up on, and driving through. It looks normal on the main street, but as you turn down roads, it looks like an artist paradise.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Lakewood is pretty fucking crazy
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/more_arrests_coming_in_lakewood_di_ionno.html
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/more_arrests_coming_in_lakewood_di_ionno.html
HollowCentral
Member
They did Jesus Camp?
I'm so fucking in.
Only film to this day that I actually yelled at my computer during, it made me so fucking mad. Incredibly well made though.
I'm so fucking in.
Only film to this day that I actually yelled at my computer during, it made me so fucking mad. Incredibly well made though.
People interested in this should listen to the This American Life episode; A Not So Simple Majority: https://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/534/a-not-so-simple-majority
Their hustle is like no other. Looking forward to it.
On the surface they seem fine, never had issues doing business with them, but man in NYC we all hear the stories. Abuses against women and children go unpunished, everyone looks the other way, massive tax evasion and abuse of social welfare programs. They are so tight, literally a wall, you can't get break through it.
On the surface they seem fine, never had issues doing business with them, but man in NYC we all hear the stories. Abuses against women and children go unpunished, everyone looks the other way, massive tax evasion and abuse of social welfare programs. They are so tight, literally a wall, you can't get break through it.
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