He has grown on me, but I think back when Kotaku was revealing the rumors about this stuff (maybe it was the always online, I tend to blend these anti-consumer practices into one giant middle finger from MS to us) he posted about how complicated life was and who is to say what should and shouldn't be done in this topsy turvy world.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PA Report - The Xbox One will kill used games, that's good
- Thread starter hardcastlemccormick
- Start date
He has grown on me, but I think back when Kotaku was revealing the rumors about this stuff (maybe it was the always online, I tend to blend these anti-consumer practices into one giant middle finger from MS to us) he posted about how complicated life was and who is to say what should and shouldn't be done in this topsy turvy world.
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
i assume this is some kind of joke right? Clearly they dont actually believe this do they?
SEGAvangelist
Member
Penny Arcade's response is disgusting just like their response during the Mass Effect 3 debacle. They are clearly never on the side of the consumer.
Zombie James
Banned
Found this conversation between Justin McElroy and Patrick Klepeck interesting:
McElroy loving dat slippery slope.
We were always at war with Eurasia.
Ace Harding
Member
Let me get this straight:
You guys prefer an environment where we can pay $60 for a new game, and get back $15 for it when we sell it 6 months or a year later, so that someone else can buy it for $40 and the publisher gets nothing while GameStop takes an easy $25?
What if someone told you you could buy new games digitally at your convenience upon release for $60, and then whenever you wanted you could trade it back in for 25% of the price of the new game? And that GameStop wouldn't be able to siphon off profits so easily anymore? That publishers would be paid for every game purchased?
Why is everyone so angry when we don't know how the proposed system works yet? Because if it worked like what I just said, that would be a good deal for everyone except GameStop.
You guys prefer an environment where we can pay $60 for a new game, and get back $15 for it when we sell it 6 months or a year later, so that someone else can buy it for $40 and the publisher gets nothing while GameStop takes an easy $25?
What if someone told you you could buy new games digitally at your convenience upon release for $60, and then whenever you wanted you could trade it back in for 25% of the price of the new game? And that GameStop wouldn't be able to siphon off profits so easily anymore? That publishers would be paid for every game purchased?
Why is everyone so angry when we don't know how the proposed system works yet? Because if it worked like what I just said, that would be a good deal for everyone except GameStop.
The right to access and take advantage of a second hand market.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
I'm sure all the mouth-breathing butt kissing PA fanbase will be singing the praises of this article that their overlords have written.
Punkster_NY
Member
captmcblack
Member
If this model also comes with the openness of the PC architecture (mod what you want, download what you want, tweak what you want, play what you want, servers being off can't force you to stop playing a game, licensing issues can't keep you from buying it later, other stores/sources are allowed to freely compete, etc), then it's fine.
But it's not coming with the PC architecture, so any comparison with PCs is bunk.
But it's not coming with the PC architecture, so any comparison with PCs is bunk.
And you sir prefer strawman arguments!
Right now you can resell on ebay/half.com/amazon and places like goozex in addition to Gamestop's idiocy.
I honestly used to believe this. But now I refuse to believe that we're going to magically see game prices drop, dlc's decrease, and other really dumb moves go away.
I understand all the sentiment around all of this, but the games industry boomed at a time when sharing and renting was at an all time high. I adamantly believe there are other ways to solve a lot of these issues that don't involve eliminating the secondary market.
I understand all the sentiment around all of this, but the games industry boomed at a time when sharing and renting was at an all time high. I adamantly believe there are other ways to solve a lot of these issues that don't involve eliminating the secondary market.
BennBeckman
Banned
what i gather from this article is that publishers are incredibly benevolent and will be falling over themselves to discount software for consumers (as opposed to gouging people with online passes, dlc etc)
and supposedly the concept of a physical item you have purchased becoming immediately valueless is a good thing?
and supposedly the concept of a physical item you have purchased becoming immediately valueless is a good thing?
Winterfang
Banned
Publishers don't get a cent from neither one.
You'd just be transferring the profit away from Gamespot to which ever middle man (Microsoft) would be doing this instead. Unless of course you cut out used games completely, then where does it leave the millions who rely on used games to stay in gaming, or those who use used games trade in to buy countless new games?
famousmortimer
Banned
Yup.
I like how they discuss how it's all concrete plusses for publishers and 'maybe' plusses for consumers. Hooray possible plusses!
Guess what, I'm a consumer, I don't want publishers to go out of business but let's get fucking serious here. If you treat consumers like shit they won't buy your stuff.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Selling the game. Giving away the game. Trading the game. Loaning the game. Playing the game after the servers go down, either for maintenance or permanently.
Gamestop is not the entire used game market.
It's really going to suck for these guys when MS can stream out their conferences regularly like Nintendo is starting to do with Nintendo Direct and basically says, 'Yeah, we don't need you guys anymore or your copy pasting of our press releases. We find youtubers more easy to work with for 'reviews'. Thanks for setting that up though!'
Do some of you not read or?
Jake Tower
Banned
I prefer an environment where I have full ownership over a legitimate copy I bought, that I may dispose of in any way I choose, as defined by US law.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Why is it that publishers deserve MORE sales for a copy after the first time its sold? Why are they somehow entitled to getting 1.5 times the money from a single copy?
Your argument also makes a very fine line for any potential 'ownership' of the game. If it's all digital, and the servers go down, you're no longer the owner of your media, you instead have essentially a dead weight from a games perspective.
Selling a game for 25% of what you paid for it is not a good deal. I can go on Ebay or wherever and sell a game for half of what I paid.
Cutting out used sales doesn't just affect Gamestop.
worse than polygon. kotaku is ok.
Yeah, but what other ones?
So much this. You will be torn apart, as will I, but I personally want devs and pubs to thrive so they make more and better games and prices come down.
SlipperySlope
Banned
And nearly endless backwards compatibility. I can still play 99.9% of the games I bought on PC 15 years ago. The only exception is Final Fantasy 7, which uses a borked video tool, if I recall.
Will I be able to even play Xbox One games 15 years from now? Gut feeling says no.
You don't know if that is true or not. If you business was selling chicken would you tell everyone you sold crappy chickens?
The Illiterati
Member
Where did I say it was because of a bribe? Granted others have insinuated such, but I haven't. All I want is Stupid Factually Wrong Journalists to be outed as such. When so called journalists are a corporation defense force(ANY company, not just MS or Sony, etc.), they should be known as such. These people should be out there asking hard questions, not explaining away these companies attempts to take away our rights. Shame them all.
I sell my games on Ebay. I usually get 50-75% of my money back. If you go to Gamestop that is your problem, but here in Germany they are not a big deal.
Because at some point after release publishers can say, "we've made enough money via new game sales and used game fees, so let's share the wealth with our game fans and discount this game significantly to celebrate."
I am slightly skeptical of this idea.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
I don't think it works that way. Price cuts are pushed on retailers by the publisher. That's why every retailer cuts the same amount of price at approximately the same time. I'm 99% sure that the retailer is compensated when the price cut is made by the publisher.
Furthermore, I'm quite certain publishers have certain deals in place with retailers from time to time. That's why you see similar sales from retailers around the same time.
Regardless, you are correct that the console manufacturer and publishers do not want to undercut physical game sales by discounting digital games. To do so would certainly draw the ire of retailers that agree to stock and move significant numbers of units. Some day, when the industry moves to completely digital, this will no longer be an issue, but today it still is.
RobotMafia
Banned
Please show me your facts about which dev houses closed this gen because of used games. Ill wait.
StopMakingSense
Member
God, the entitlement here. I bet you want to play your games when you move and can't get internet installed for a few weeks, too.
"AAA" PC games have gone up in price to $60 in recent years despite the proliferation of digital sales. Expansion packs have gone up in price for MMOs and this is despite the fact the sub fees increased in comparison to early MMOs. There is NO incentive for a publisher to ever lower the standard price.
Game prices aren't dropping due to this and anyone who think it's even a possibility is frankly an idiot.
Game prices aren't dropping due to this and anyone who think it's even a possibility is frankly an idiot.
This ignores the other aspects to physical media, like lending, trading, or giving away after use. So no.
ebullientprism
Member
I like the Mcelroy fella. Many people would be content to take a 750k check from MS, make thier shitty doc and move on.
Not many people would have the long term loyalty this guy displays.
Not many people would have the long term loyalty this guy displays.
michaelius
Banned
Because that system doesn't.
I wouldn't buy half the stuff i did if i didn't have warranty of selling with minimal loses.
Agree about Kotaku. They've been going out of their way to get us the deets lately, and making articles and posts that are if anything, anti big publisher greed and against the PR crap wafting out of certain companies.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Activision makes really fucking innovative shit with all the billions of dollars they make don't they bro?
I'm getting a headache from reading these comments.
1) Payment structures affect developers getting fucked, which are set by publishers.
2) Terrible digital distribution by MS and Sony already shows that they have no interest in giving you a discount if you buy directly from them.
3) Indies are thriving on PC, as I've already said, and boy I wonder why that is: No imbecile publisher oversight that ruins everything.
NullPointer
Member
Hahaha, thats really how this looks.
turnbuckle
Member
Who doesn't? The contention isn't about wanting the industry to have success, but rather what decisions should/shouldn't be made to achieve that success.
The same thing is happening to music and movies. Physical sale (and thus resale) of all those things are in decline. We can check back in 5-10 years, and see where things are.
uh huh, and what about game preservation? how does that work? How about when I want to play my console after Microsoft shuts down the servers, how does that work? How about people who use game trades to fund their new game purchases, can they go fuck themselves because they are not rich?
Coming from some dudes that were begging for handouts to do a fucking Podcast, I guess I should not be surprised.
The gaming industry is the only industry that currently fights this hard against second hand markets anymore, because the rest have taken their lumps and learned. I can rent and geg second hand movies,music,cars,you name it.What the hell makes the game industry a special case?
Coming from some dudes that were begging for handouts to do a fucking Podcast, I guess I should not be surprised.
The gaming industry is the only industry that currently fights this hard against second hand markets anymore, because the rest have taken their lumps and learned. I can rent and geg second hand movies,music,cars,you name it.What the hell makes the game industry a special case?
von Stroheim
Member
Man, I hated it when I bought a used car the other day and had to pay the extra $5000 "Used Car Fee to Original Manufacturer" tax. I sure am glad video games don't work that way!
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
Great gif. Reminds me of the 360 when they made it a kinectbox. So I've already started on the way to accepting it.
Ignoring the used games situation on the Xbone, MS has not exactly gotten off to a great start in making this possible by preventing self-publishing on the Marketplace again.