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Paradox Grand Strategy - Thread of Fighting WW2 as Bithynia
- Thread starter Walshicus
- Start date
It's still coming via the expansion pass though right? They said after TfV the next expansion will be bigger and yet again we are here.
What i'm saying is that the game has so many issues that should be worked on/reworked before adding new focus trees. Especially since most people play major nations anyway.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I think this is the only part that is problematic. Initially, the expansion pass was going to cover 2 DLCs to the value of $50. When TfV was announced at $15, they said that they were expanding the pass to cover 3 DLCs, instead of 2. The community manager stated that the two to follow would be the same size as the original 2 they had planned, that they would be larger than TfV. This was a cool way to help win back some goodwill.
If they don't make any other changes, this $10 will combine with $15 for TfV, then they will bring out a $25 large DLC, which will add up to $50. So they aren't ripping people off, exactly. But it's not a good look from a PR perspective to say you're going to do this nice thing, then going back on your word and just delivering what was contractually promised in the first instance.
It seems like that's what they're heading for. The content lead hinted at this being the case in response to someone's post the other day.
False dichotomy really, there's only a few programmers and one AI lead. The whole HoI4 dev team is ~10 people. The content and art people might as well work on focus trees and flavour content, it's better than just telling them to sit idle for months while the other people work. I mean theoretically they might also be skilled at programming, but that's incidental to their role on the team and we can't really assume that they all are.
Via the Content Lead:
When he says this DLC he means just the paid component. The patch is sucking up most of their programming resources, hence the DLC component is mostly non-programming stuff. I mean not 100%, they are adding a few mechanics, which I'm excited for. But the free patch is clearly going to be the bigger game changer from what they've been saying.
hobblygobbly
Member
I personally liked the previous HoI DLC because I love playing the non-major powers in the war, and of course the dominion and new puppet autonomy system introduced in the DLC.
Even in HoI 3 I played smaller countries, I like focusing on my contribution to a region and aiding the war effort in my neck of the woods.
Like when I played New Zealand and Australia, I did not do much in Europe, but I focused on the pacific and actually had to help Australia when I was playing New Zealand which got invaded by Japan lol. My aim of the game with NZ was naval focused, and I did quite well.
So yeah with the upcoming country pack DLC I'm all for it because I love playing countries outside of the major parties, I hope that eventually all countries will have their own national focuses.
Of course some AI issues still need to be worked on with updates, but that's a given.
In terms of what I'd like to see first as a big feature/mechanics DLC is intelligence/counter-intelligence. Then maybe an expanded upon logistics/supply system because I think HoI 4's is too simple and not the middle ground between HoI 3 and this. To me a big part of strategy is keeping your front lines and such supplied well, which is too abstract now with HoI 4.
I think I am going to start a communist Finland campaign soon, but to be independent and not join the Soviet Union, and spread communism to Scandinavia/Baltics (and play past end of WW2 and see how long I can deal with SU).
Even in HoI 3 I played smaller countries, I like focusing on my contribution to a region and aiding the war effort in my neck of the woods.
Like when I played New Zealand and Australia, I did not do much in Europe, but I focused on the pacific and actually had to help Australia when I was playing New Zealand which got invaded by Japan lol. My aim of the game with NZ was naval focused, and I did quite well.
So yeah with the upcoming country pack DLC I'm all for it because I love playing countries outside of the major parties, I hope that eventually all countries will have their own national focuses.
Of course some AI issues still need to be worked on with updates, but that's a given.
In terms of what I'd like to see first as a big feature/mechanics DLC is intelligence/counter-intelligence. Then maybe an expanded upon logistics/supply system because I think HoI 4's is too simple and not the middle ground between HoI 3 and this. To me a big part of strategy is keeping your front lines and such supplied well, which is too abstract now with HoI 4.
I think I am going to start a communist Finland campaign soon, but to be independent and not join the Soviet Union, and spread communism to Scandinavia/Baltics (and play past end of WW2 and see how long I can deal with SU).
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Intelligence is the only big system that we really don't have a lot on, although they did include a very basic version using encryption/decryption. After the air war overhaul, the next big mechanics improvement should probably be naval, which is also fidgety and not very exciting.
I'd like a DLC focusing on improving industry. It's not that it's bad - it's actually probably the best part of the game. I just want them to double down on their strength and add a little more depth.
Research could use some changes to make it a little better. My idea is that design companies for flat buffs are removed, and instead what happens is each country has competing design companies that make a bid each time you go to design a new thing. So you research Medium Tank 1 from America and you get a bid from Company 1 to design a slightly underwhelming tank with not-so-great stats, but they promise that it will only take half as much time to research. Company 2 offers you a solid all round tank with no strengths or weaknesses. Company 3 offers you a slower, less reliable tank that has thicker armor and a better gun.
In my dreams we don't even just have "Medium Tank 1, Medium Tank 2", we split research into "Technology" and "Design". You research technology, but then you design a tank, where you pick "role", and then get your bids as described above. You can design a new tank really soon, but then you won't have many new technologies to incorporate into the tank. It moves away from pure tank, aircraft and equipment generations. Unfortunately it also makes it a bit more challenging to design flavour names for everything so this is unlikely
CertifiedFP
Member
So uh, what's the opinion on CK2 conclave? Thinking of getting another CK2 run going once I get bored of Stellaris and am considering grabbing it to complete my collection of CK2 expansions.
Mixed opinions. I personally love having to manage your council, to get stuff done, it makes sense. Other people find it an unnecessary complication.
Get Reaper's Due, it's amazing all around.
CertifiedFP
Member
I have everything except Conclave. The reason I'm asking is because it's the one I skipped.
Well, the revised education system is good. Otherwise just go look at some council gameplay and see if you like it.
Poodlestrike
Banned
We need that and Vicky with importer support. Run your alternate history scenario from 500 BC to the 1950s.
CertifiedFP
Member
1950's? How unambitious.
500BC to 40K or bust.
500BC to 40K or bust.
The Emperor Approves.
RedSparrows
Member
Oh momma.
If they create a game that fits between HoI4 and Stellaris (~1950 - 2200) then you wouldn't be too far off being able to do that.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Baby steps. Let's see them get the Cold War up and running before we ask for a Near Future Speculative Fiction simulator
Same here. Either Vicky 3 or a Cold War/modern game
CertifiedFP
Member
I totally want a "Space Race" one that goes from the Cold War (1950-60 start date?) to 2200 with exploiting the resources of all of Sol and developing better and better spaceship engines (with FTL as an end-goal) as a major gameplay factor
I mean, 1950's as the start-date and ending in 2200 is a nice rounded 250 years. I mean, shit, think of it in a way as a CK2 to Stellaris's EU4.
I mean, 1950's as the start-date and ending in 2200 is a nice rounded 250 years. I mean, shit, think of it in a way as a CK2 to Stellaris's EU4.
hobblygobbly
Member
So the press conference is now over. No new PDS GSG announcement - only games from other studios PDX partnered up with, meh. Jon Shafer (Civ 4 expansions designer and Civ 5 lead designer) has however joined PDS to work on an unannounced game.
Only announcement from PDS itself is what they call an immersion pack - focusing on Russia, for EU:IV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPgbydq3qMs&feature=youtu.be
Only announcement from PDS itself is what they call an immersion pack - focusing on Russia, for EU:IV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPgbydq3qMs&feature=youtu.be
Looks like the unnannounced games/dlc will be revealed tomorrow
Keynote from 13:00-13:45 and then 2 unannounced panels from 14:00 to 15:45.
hobblygobbly
Member
Looks like the unnannounced games/dlc will be revealed tomorrow
Keynote from 13:00-13:45 and then 2 unannounced panels from 14:00 to 15:45.
Hmm I suppose that's true, I was under the impression that their press conference today was to unveil all the games but the forum, reddit, and twitter all thinking there will be announcements over the weekend so I guess we'll see.
CertifiedFP
Member
Hmm, just for shits and giggles I try out a Norse count and see how far-
Uh... OH BOY.
Literally the first thing that happened was my liege, Haraldr Wartooth, immediately somehow forces through Maximum Tribal organization (How?!?!?! Whenever I played him I struggled to even get my vassals to approve Low.) and goes North Korea-Mode. What the shit? Well, that was my fastest CK2 Game Over.
Uh... OH BOY.
Literally the first thing that happened was my liege, Haraldr Wartooth, immediately somehow forces through Maximum Tribal organization (How?!?!?! Whenever I played him I struggled to even get my vassals to approve Low.) and goes North Korea-Mode. What the shit? Well, that was my fastest CK2 Game Over.
Lol seems like it. They're just streaming the press conference from yesterday right now
hobblygobbly
Member
ANARCHIST REBELS HAVE RISEN IN STOCKHOLM (pic from quill's twitter)
CertifiedFP
Member
Of course there's a Pepe in there. After all, Vicky 2 is a bit of a /pol/ favorite IIRC.
Honestly I imagine the kinds of things that demographic does and makes Vicky 2 known for is probably off-putting for Paradox. I imagine it's off-putting enough having that demographic be among the most vocal segment of their fandom.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I feel like if this was a major problem they wouldn't have brought back HoI.
CertifiedFP
Member
There's no genocide mechanics in HoI. In fact, so much as asking for anything to reference the Holocaust will basically get you instantly nuked from Paradox's forums and/or Twitters faster than you'd get nuked from GAF for saying racial slurs. Likewise for trying to publicize a Holocaust mod.
It's enough of a problem for it to be a hard rule.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
It's really only HoI4 that avoids the unsavoury things. EU4 has culture conversion as well as the "attack natives" button that let's you wipe out locals. Stellaris has genocide as a game mechanic. Even HoI4 has nukes and strategic bombing, plus it ahistorically makes the Great Purge justified by making the trotskyite plot real and the purge is the only way to avoid a civil war. It just maintains the fiction that no civilians are being harmed.
RedSparrows
Member
Yeh if you stop and really look at what you are doing in these games, it is pretty horrendous. Slave trade is a go.
Almost makes you think they're trying to simulate history or something.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Yeah but only when they feel comfortable. Native genocide, slave trade, win the civil war as CSA and reintroduce slavery in the whole of America, kill your infant children in political plots, all fine. Mustard gas, strategic+nuclear bombing of cities, fine. Historical swastika flags, unacceptable. To the point where if you post a link to documentary footage about WWII it will get deleted from their forums for containing swastikas or mentioning the existence of the holocaust.
I can understand not wanting to include genocide mechanics, but they're walking a bit of a messed up line where the reason they're not including it isn't because it's genocide, the reason they're not including it is because it would be too controversial. And other genocide mechanics in their other games get a big fat thumbs up. They want to present a clean, sanitized WWII but that doesn't extend to anything else.
Basileus777
Member
They want to be able to sell their products in as many countries as possible, so they whitewash stuff that local authorities would not care for and forget about the rest.
Nazi flags can get prevent your game from being sold, killing natives won't.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I agree it's purely mercenary reasons, but they won't admit it. They offer a German only version of the game already - Hitler and Himmler and all that lot have blacked out portraits for sale in Germany. I think it's frankly a dumb decision to not include the historical German flag in the non-German version though.
To be clear I don't want holocaust mechanics.
RedSparrows
Member
I'm not complaining about it, more observing that the necessary level of abstraction in such a complex game elides the mechanical brutality of your actions.
Don't get me wrong: my blob must grow!
CertifiedFP
Member
The problem with not simulating the Holocaust is that it doesn't simulate the massive drain on resources that was the Holocaust.
If anyone is interested: MEIOU & Taxes 1.99 (aka open beta for 2.0 which will come out around the end of the month). Just got released.
Its without a doubt the most comprehensive overhaul mod for EU4 out there. 2.0 has the biggest changes for the mod since its original release. Too many changes to list but go check it out on the Paradox forums (I can't remember if there are rules against posting links to other forums so I will stay on the safe side for now)! They were one of the two mods (along with Kaiserreich for HOI4, another great mod) that got invited to have a booth and host sessions at PDXCon this year
I am a big fan of it and have been playing with M&T for the last couple of years now.
Its without a doubt the most comprehensive overhaul mod for EU4 out there. 2.0 has the biggest changes for the mod since its original release. Too many changes to list but go check it out on the Paradox forums (I can't remember if there are rules against posting links to other forums so I will stay on the safe side for now)! They were one of the two mods (along with Kaiserreich for HOI4, another great mod) that got invited to have a booth and host sessions at PDXCon this year
I am a big fan of it and have been playing with M&T for the last couple of years now.
CertifiedFP
Member
Fuck it, let's do this. Operation Swedenblob is GO.
Let's see if I can do it, Emperor of Scandinavia before the Viking Age starts.
Let's see if I can do it, Emperor of Scandinavia before the Viking Age starts.
Basileus777
Member
I've been waiting for this MEIOU update for like a year now.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I like CK2 plus, but its map changes kinda mess up my preferred start location. Or they did last I'd checked. Been a while.
If you find EU4 complicated might be best to wait a bit on M&T. There are some good help threads and stuff on Paradox forums. As someone with almost 1000 hours in EU4 tho the base game is just a bit stale for me at this point and M&T improves on many aspects I find lacking
I enjoy CK2+! Prefer it to HIP. I don't play CK2 nearly as much as I do EU4 tho
Looks like some decent changes to HoI 4 airwarfare are coming
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-air-improvements.1022579/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-air-improvements.1022579/
Forerunner
Member
Good, I don't even bother with aerial warfare at the atm because it's a pain in the ass.
Yup same here. Place fighter above your home areas to protect factories and i'm done with air warfare.
Way too much effort for too little gain.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
CAS is really potent but it's hard to tell what effect it has without clicking on every battle. Was hoping for more extensive changes not just a UI overhaul but it's something.