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Penny Arcade 11/30/2007 Jeff Gerstmann fired from Gamespot, allegedly for K&L review

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Not open for further replies.
F

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Son of Godzilla said:
I just watched the K&L video review and honestly? I can understand why someone would be fired over that, especially if he'd been talked to about his demeanor before. It is excessively negative. It's one thing to be uninterested in a game, but he seemed uninterested in doing the review. In this age where these people are as much personalities as reviewers, I don't see how saccing someone for not maintaining one is such a crime, especially if he's been approached about it before.
Click to expand...

GTFO

http://www.gamespot.c-om/users/Jeff/games_table?mode=own

Look at his reviews/videos/scores for, get ready for this.... good games:

Unreal Tournament 3 8.5
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 9.0
Bioshock 9.0
Burnout Revenge 9.1
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 9.6
F.E.A.R. 9.1
Gears of War 9.6
God of War 9.3
Half-Life 2 9.2
Mario Kart DS 9.2



Holy fuck, positive reviews & he seems to have a genuine interest in them. Who knew?

.... and games that are in the pile of shit category:

Full Auto 6.5
Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball 6.0
Constantine 6.4
187 Ride or Die 6.2
Delta Force: Black Hawk Down 5.7
Get On Da Mic 4.2
GoldenEye: Rogue Agent 6.3
Hour of Victory 2.0


I mean MY GOD, why they didn't fire him for the Hour of Victory review, I don't know why.
That game DESERVED your attention & he SHOULD have been written positively & he should have been genuinely interested in it!!!!
 
A

Aaron

Member
FTWer said:
Look at his reviews/videos/scores for, get ready for this.... good games:

Unreal Tournament 3 8.5
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 9.0
Bioshock 9.0
Burnout Revenge 9.1
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 9.6
F.E.A.R. 9.1
Gears of War 9.6
God of War 9.3
Half-Life 2 9.2
Mario Kart DS 9.2
Click to expand...
I'd say half of those are questionable... but who the hell gives FEAR a 9? I don't even think Monolith would give it a 9. Sure, the AI is impressive, but... well that's all the good you can say about it. Monolith did it better themselves with Condemned.
 
S

Son of Godzilla

Banned
FTWer said:
GTFO

http://www.gamespot.c-om/users/Jeff/games_table?mode=own

Look at his reviews/videos/scores for, get ready for this.... good games:

Unreal Tournament 3 8.5
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 9.0
Bioshock 9.0
Burnout Revenge 9.1
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 9.6
F.E.A.R. 9.1
Gears of War 9.6
God of War 9.3
Half-Life 2 9.2
Mario Kart DS 9.2



Holy fuck, positive reviews & he seems to have a genuine interest in them. Who knew?

.... and games that are in the pile of shit category:

Full Auto 6.5
Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball 6.0
Constantine 6.4
187 Ride or Die 6.2
Delta Force: Black Hawk Down 5.7
Get On Da Mic 4.2
GoldenEye: Rogue Agent 6.3
Hour of Victory 2.0


I mean MY GOD, why they didn't fire him for the Hour of Victory review, I don't know why.
That game DESERVED your attention & he SHOULD have been written positively & he should have been genuinely interested in it!!!!
Click to expand...
So, I figured I'd pick a review that someone actually recommends as not being bad and watch it, because apparantly there's legitimate reasons for a person to be bad at their job and holy shit he made a review of UT3 boring. I mean, I'm trying really, really, really goddamn hard not to be biased against the guy, but the whole thing just comes off as very unproffessional. I'd assume that it's Gamespot more than Gerstmann behind style of the review that doesn't seem to gel well with him, but that doesn't excuse the blatant Let's Get It Over With half assedry.
 
A

AzureNightmare

Banned
Gerstmanngate continues


At the heart of this Jeff Gerstmann controversy is the unconfirmed notion that Eidos was upset with GameSpot's 6/10 review of the game. While we have no way of knowing if that is actually what happened, it seems that Eidos might just be completely delusional about the media reception for the game.

If you go to the official **** & ***** website and watch the flash intro that plays before the main content appears, you'll see two excerpts from reviews flash by with a 5-star rating for each. The problem is, those reviews did not issue a 5-star, or 100% rating.

It lists a GameSpy review with the quote, "It's the best emulation of being in the midst of a Michael Mann movie we've ever seen." This quote doesn't exist from GameSpy's review. It's pulled from some early E3 2007 coverage that would have been published at least 5 months ago. The preview issues no kind of score or rating that could be perceived as a 5-star rating.

In fact, GameSpy's actual review gave **** & ***** a 3-star rating. Three stars, on a 5-star scale, equates to a 60%, or 6-out-of-10 score, which is exactly what Gerstmann gave the game.

The **** & ***** webpage also lists a quote from Game Informer: "A mercenary, a psychopath, & a bundle of cash... what could go wrong?" and also lists it with a 5-star rating. That quote also does not appear in Game Informer's review, it seems to be pulled from an early preview. And if you guessed that Game Informer's actual review gave the game a 5-star score, you'd be both wrong and stupid. They gave it a 7/10.

It's common for game PR to include preview quotes on early advertisements, as those are the only kind of quotes available before the game's release. Never before, however, have I seen preview quotes being paraded around as reviews, and also given completely imaginary scores to boot.

Delusion. Complete delusion.
Click to expand...
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
I'd just like to remind people that along with C*Net and Eidos web sites, the words "Kayne" and "Linch" (when spelled properly) are censored at NeoGAF, which means any links containing them will be broken.
 
Z

zenbot

Member
Son of Godzilla said:
Those stars are just decoration for something to place under the quote. Did you think they were something else?
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Heh.

"Eidos, it says above this preview quote that Edge magazine gave the game 11/10."
"That's, uh, an ink smudge. Why would you assume it's a review score? YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT ASSUMPTIONS"
 
K

kottila

Member
mosaic said:
I'd just like to remind people that along with C*Net and Eidos web sites, the words "Kayne" and "Linch" (when spelled properly) are censored at NeoGAF, which means any links containing them will be broken.
Click to expand...

using www.tinyurl.com is a good way around it, if that site is allowed here
 
F

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Aaron said:
I'd say half of those are questionable... but who the hell gives FEAR a 9? I don't even think Monolith would give it a 9. Sure, the AI is impressive, but... well that's all the good you can say about it. Monolith did it better themselves with Condemned.
Click to expand...

F.E.A.R. got a 9.2 from IGN & the gamerankings score is similar across the board

Son of Godzilla said:
So, I figured I'd pick a review that someone actually recommends as not being bad and watch it, because apparantly there's legitimate reasons for a person to be bad at their job and holy shit he made a review of UT3 boring. I mean, I'm trying really, really, really goddamn hard not to be biased against the guy, but the whole thing just comes off as very unproffessional. I'd assume that it's Gamespot more than Gerstmann behind style of the review that doesn't seem to gel well with him, but that doesn't excuse the blatant Let's Get It Over With half assedry.
Click to expand...

To be honest, what's revolutionary about the new Unreal?
Great game, but nothing really new except that skateboard part & really that wasn't so great.
His video was dead-on.
 
R

rudds

Name 10 better posters this year
mosaic said:
Dude, I did some work for Hotgames, remember? You guys paid crap *grin* But the freedom to say anything I wanted did indeed rock.
Click to expand...

Hotgames still owes me about $150. Where the hell is Browzer?
 
E

El-Suave

Member
mosaic said:
Dude, I did some work for Hotgames, remember? You guys paid crap *grin* But the freedom to say anything I wanted did indeed rock.
Click to expand...

I love the name Hotgames, for marketing purposes that's a built in endorsement right there ;-) . The Ei Dos marketing department would probably use something like "Featured on Hotgames.com" as their five star quote, who cares about the review. ;-)
 
G

Gazunta

Member
mosaic said:
Dude, I did some work for Hotgames, remember? You guys paid crap *grin* But the freedom to say anything I wanted did indeed rock.
Click to expand...
Your days at Hotgames, along with exxy and Rudds, are generally referred to by historians as "the golden age of mankind". Shame nobody knew who the hell we were then!
Rudds said:
Hotgames still owes me about $150. Where the hell is Browzer?
Click to expand...
Living it up on the backs of fantasy football players all over Australia :)
 
O

Opus Angelorum

Member
Just an update, this story was mentioned briefly at the end of the netcast 'This Week in Tech (TWiT)' by Leo Laporte.

http://twit.tv/124

He said he was following the story but would only comment when there was more clarification. Look out for next weeks show, and I imagine Alex Lyndsay will comment on the podcast 'This Week in Media'.
 
N

nightowl

Member
Son of Godzilla said:
So, I figured I'd pick a review that someone actually recommends as not being bad and watch it, because apparantly there's legitimate reasons for a person to be bad at their job and holy shit he made a review of UT3 boring. I mean, I'm trying really, really, really goddamn hard not to be biased against the guy, but the whole thing just comes off as very unproffessional. I'd assume that it's Gamespot more than Gerstmann behind style of the review that doesn't seem to gel well with him, but that doesn't excuse the blatant Let's Get It Over With half assedry.
Click to expand...

In all fairness, your critique is questionable to me after gems like the following:
(Regarding Mass Effect)
Son of Godzilla said:
"I lovelovelove this game. It is great, awesome, spectacular. How did shit like Bioshock get hyped over this"
Click to expand...

If you think Bioshock was shit...well....okay. If you think Bioshock's hype was more than Mass Effects....well...okay.

(Note: Not a dig at Mass Effect...Played/finished and thought both were great myself)
 
K

koam

Member
Sorry, i'm a bit late here but i just managed to read that game informer quote and i love the irony... the sweet irony..

Game Informer said:
"A mercenary, a psychopath, & a bundle of cash... what could go wrong?"
Click to expand...
 
J

jmdajr

Member
FTWer said:
GTFO

http://www.gamespot.c-om/users/Jeff/games_table?mode=own

Look at his reviews/videos/scores for, get ready for this.... good games:

Unreal Tournament 3 8.5
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 9.0
Bioshock 9.0
Burnout Revenge 9.1
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 9.6
F.E.A.R. 9.1
Gears of War 9.6
God of War 9.3
Half-Life 2 9.2
Mario Kart DS 9.2



Holy fuck, positive reviews & he seems to have a genuine interest in them. Who knew?

.... and games that are in the pile of shit category:

Full Auto 6.5
Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball 6.0
Constantine 6.4
187 Ride or Die 6.2
Delta Force: Black Hawk Down 5.7
Get On Da Mic 4.2
GoldenEye: Rogue Agent 6.3
Hour of Victory 2.0


I mean MY GOD, why they didn't fire him for the Hour of Victory review, I don't know why.
That game DESERVED your attention & he SHOULD have been written positively & he should have been genuinely interested in it!!!!
Click to expand...

Giving games the right score? amazing!
Sure, some may or may not deserve a 9, but it's still in the 8-9 range for sure.
 
M

MeowthMan

Member
Looks like this deal is making other sites reconsider how they do business:

One of the big problems that I see is that there’s this assumption that if you want to be a “success” in the business of writing about games, you have to get the approval of game publishers. After all, to get press copies of games, free swag or an invite to E3, your publication has to be reviewed and approved by some PR stooge at some stage.

This is a critically flawed and suicidal assumption.

However, it's something everyone seems to believe, and it's the root cause of all these problems.

Some would say that being approved by a PR stooge is the worst thing that can happen to your site. It’s like having a party and your parents come over and start dancing to the music in front of all your friends. Not really cool. You're deemed "safe" and effectively neutered, and placed on a database of "friendly" publications to replicate their "key messages" and "effective branding among target market" And once you’re approved, there’s the implicit assumption that you will go out of your way to remain approved, which can be a hell of a lot of extra work.

Angry Gamer is an independently owned gaming site. From now on, it needs to be an independently aligned one, too.

As we stated before, we don’t “do” review scores generally. Games that are published by Eidos or use the Starforce copy protection scam will get zeroes on principle, but usually our review scores run along the lines of “hell yeah! / 10” or “Overall: It’s better than rabies”. Sometimes we don’t even do scores at all. This policy will continue. Suck it, *****************.

If we’re reviewing a game that we’ve received from a publisher, we’ll disclose this at the top of the review. Likewise, if a publisher has bought advertising directly from Angry Gamer previously, this will be acknowledged at the top of the review. This is regardless of who wrote the review.

We’re not going to go out of our way anymore to solicit review copies, competition prizes or advertising deals with game publishers any more. If they happen, they happen, but it’s better for us to maintain our independence. At the moment one sixth of the advertisements that run on Angry Gamer are from game publishers, with the rest coming from 3rd party ad suppliers.

Relying on game publishers to advertise on the site and supply us with games is only going to weaken our ability to say whatever we want about whatever we want. I spent way, way too much of my life trying to build Angry Gamer into something worthwhile. It would be ludicrous to piss it all away just as we’re starting to grow for some cheap trinkets.
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Yeah, I think this is the way to go. The reliance on publishers approving game sites has just got to stop.
 
R

RogueHobbit

Neo Member
FTWer said:
GTFO

http://www.gamespot.c-om/users/Jeff/games_table?mode=own

Look at his reviews/videos/scores for, get ready for this.... good games:

Unreal Tournament 3 8.5
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 9.0
Bioshock 9.0
Burnout Revenge 9.1
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 9.6
F.E.A.R. 9.1
Gears of War 9.6
God of War 9.3
Half-Life 2 9.2
Mario Kart DS 9.2
Click to expand...


I can't confirm it because the site is blocked from my job, but I'm pretty sure that Oblivion was reviewed by Kasavin and God of War was reviewed by A. Navarro.
 
K

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
AzureNightmareXE said:
Gerstmanngate continues
Click to expand...

Ugh, I really don't want to jump to defend Eidos...but this (not the stars thing) is normal for any publisher in any industry. You take good sounding blurbs and you use it to hype what you're selling. If it's from printed impressions, previews, reviews or whatever. It doesn't matter. You can use it to try and sell your product.

This is old hat shit and shouldn't even be talked about.

The stars thing? Misleading, sure. However, barely anyone uses stars to begin with so some common sense should apply there.
 
V

Vennt

Unconfirmed Member
I don't think the use of positive blurb is that much of a big deal, but use of the "5 star" graphics with the quotes to imply the game got 5 stars is a bit much.
 
B

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
RogueHobbit said:
I can't confirm it because the site is blocked from my job, but I'm pretty sure that Oblivion was reviewed by Kasavin and God of War was reviewed by A. Navarro.
Click to expand...

correct on both accounts. i used to actively seek out kasavin's reviews, read them, watch the video, etc. i remember this one distinctly because oblivion's 9.6 was the next really high score after resident evil 4's. it convinced me i should rent and play oblivion, which. . . uh. . . yeah
 
S

Scotch

Member
Kintaro said:
Ugh, I really don't want to jump to defend Eidos...but this (not the stars thing) is normal for any publisher in any industry. You take good sounding blurbs and you use it to hype what you're selling. If it's from printed impressions, previews, reviews or whatever. It doesn't matter. You can use it to try and sell your product.

This is old hat shit and shouldn't even be talked about.

The stars thing? Misleading, sure. However, barely anyone uses stars to begin with so some common sense should apply there.
Click to expand...
Do you work for Eidos or something? You expect someone who doesn't know anything about Kayne & Linch to somehow figure out those 5-stars are bullshit? Sounds to me you are jumping to defend Eidos after all.
 
D

Dirtbag

Member
fake review scores....

the hits just keep coming.

Has anyone looked into which PR group is being used for all this?
Is it internal PR? These guys have completely destroyed credibilty, and left it for dead, bleeding on the side of the road, in the desert.
 
D

Dyno

Member
Kintaro said:
Ugh, I really don't want to jump to defend Eidos...but this (not the stars thing) is normal for any publisher in any industry. You take good sounding blurbs and you use it to hype what you're selling. If it's from printed impressions, previews, reviews or whatever. It doesn't matter. You can use it to try and sell your product.

This is old hat shit and shouldn't even be talked about.

The stars thing? Misleading, sure. However, barely anyone uses stars to begin with so some common sense should apply there.
Click to expand...

There's spinning a fact in a positive light (which this is not) and then there is full-on deception (which this clearly is.) Eidos should not be given a free pass with this kind of falsehood, the bar is already set way too low as it is.

Video game entertainment is not like most other industries, it's customer base are amongst the most computer and internet savvy of any product. We thrive on information and we know were to find it. We know when a project is shaping up well in advance and by the same token we know when the marketing hype exceeds the game's true merit.

Eidos is very foolish and ignorant to think they can circumvent this well of knowledge that sites like NeoGAF have created with a wack of false advertising and punative action again fact-based journalism. Big publishers are trying to get away with this kind of behaviour more and more these days as a means to protect their investment. It all boils down to them selling so-so games by convincing the public they're better then they are.

While this may sound corny it's up to us; the hardcore gamer, we who spend more than any other demographic, to renounce them fully in hopes of purging this kind tactic from the medium we enjoy so much.

Full-on boycott I say. It's the only way to hurt them enough for they and others to take note.
 
B

Brannon

Member
Vennt said:
I don't think the use of positive blurb is that much of a big deal, but use of the "5 star" graphics with the quotes to imply the game got 5 stars is a bit much.
Click to expand...

New king of the understatements.
 
N

nightowl

Member
Kintaro said:
This is old hat shit and shouldn't even be talked about.
Click to expand...
On the quotes, I coudln't agree more(that it's old hat, I think its fair game to be discussed, but ultimately not an issue).

Kintaro said:
The stars thing? Misleading, sure. However, barely anyone uses stars to begin with so some common sense should apply there.
Click to expand...

Misleading? They put a comment from a preview 6 months ago under 5 stars on their games official website. Can you honestly say that doing that isn't an INTENTIONAL action done to indicate something that quite simply isn't true? Your comment that some common sense should apply here seems to imply you somehow think it is the viewer's responsibility to "realize" that the quote and the 5 stars are not related?
 
M

mysticstylez

Banned
Kintaro said:
The stars thing? Misleading, sure. However, barely anyone uses stars to begin with so some common sense should apply there.
Click to expand...



Do you think the average game buyer knows what mags/websites use stars and which ones don't. However if the average gamer sees 5 stars in a videogame ad they think it's that the game is great. Then they tell their friends "Hey did you see K&L got 5 stars!!!"
 
E

ElectricBlue187

Member
lol gamespot
this has got to be the biggest screw up by a gaming website in the history of gaming website screw ups

Any doubt cast upon the integrity of your reviews is fatal, more so to do nothing about it for FOUR DAYS and then come back with that lame statement.
 
N

nightowl

Member
mysticstylez said:
Do you think the average game buyer knows what mags/websites use stars and which ones don't. However if the average gamer sees 5 stars in a videogame ad they think it's that the game is great. Then they tell their friends "Hey did you see K&L got 5 stars!!!"
Click to expand...

Not to mention the loved one of a gamer that might be looking to get a "good game" as a gift. (Not even going into the parent/kid angle as this title is assuredly not meant for children). Oh really? it sucks? But it had 5 stars reviews from GameSpy and Game Informer? Isn't that good?

Honestly, GameSpy and Game Informer should be 10x more pissed than anyone on GAF. (Not suggesting they aren't if any GSpy/GI are lurking about).

The unfortunate thing is that Eidos probably won't be taken to task like they should for this sort of behavior on any of the major sites because guess what...companies like GameSpy and Game Informer are still dependent on game related advertising from publishers so...the math is already done on that one isn't it?

Instead they'll request that it be removed (I believe it already has been) and not make a fuss.
 
T

taconinja

Member
Kintaro said:
Ugh, I really don't want to jump to defend Eidos...but this (not the stars thing) is normal for any publisher in any industry. You take good sounding blurbs and you use it to hype what you're selling. If it's from printed impressions, previews, reviews or whatever. It doesn't matter. You can use it to try and sell your product.

This is old hat shit and shouldn't even be talked about.

The stars thing? Misleading, sure. However, barely anyone uses stars to begin with so some common sense should apply there.
Click to expand...
No, actually you seem rabidly eager to "jump to defend Eidos."
 
N

nestea

Member
koam said:
I'm suprised they don't have a quote from Gamespot and then they include 6 stars
Click to expand...

They should have just put some inconspicuous trophy next to the quotes and in fine print, put award winning game site.
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
taconinja said:
No, actually you seem rabidly eager to "jump to defend Eidos."
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No, actually...he *is* right. It's basically standard practice and has been for years in other entertainment fields.

Don't remember the TV spots for films that critics blasted yet the spot would proudly quote one or three words from a review which, when taken out of context, doesn't sound like it's part of a complaint?
 
H

Hellsing321

Member
Gattsu25 said:
No, actually...he *is* right. It's basically standard practice and has been for years in other entertainment fields.

Don't remember the TV spots for films that critics blasted yet the spot would proudly quote one or three words from a review which, when taken out of context, doesn't sound like it's part of a complaint?
Click to expand...
Yeah but they didn't include a made up score with the quote.
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Gattsu25 said:
No, actually...he *is* right. It's basically standard practice and has been for years in other entertainment fields.

Don't remember the TV spots for films that critics blasted yet the spot would proudly quote one or three words from a review which, when taken out of context, doesn't sound like it's part of a complaint?
Click to expand...

Even if he is right that this is "old hat shit," (and I'd say to many gamers it's most certainly not; not everyone can be as tuned in to the extreme world of video game marketing as some of our more radical posters) he is still wrong that this implies that it "shouldn't even be talked about."

If anything, I'd argue that its alleged prevalance further supports the notion that it should be discussed. There have been a lot of fun strands of argument throughout the thread (and trust me, I've been keeping mental notes on the A+ funnest) but "this is commonplace, therefore no discussion of it is warranted" has to be among the most specious so far.
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
Hellsing321 said:
Yeah but they didn't include a made up score with the quote.
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What does that have to do with my post? taconinja accused kintaro of being 'rabidly eager to defend eidos' (which is a personal pet peeve of mine) when kintaro was specific in only talking about the quote and not the stars
 
T

tino

Banned
Gattsu25 said:
What does that have to do with my post? taconinja accused kintaro of being 'rabidly eager to defend eidos' (which is a personal pet peeve of mine) when kintaro was specific in only talking about the quote and not the stars
Click to expand...

The problem is the star not the quote. We all have seen those hilarious Roger Ebert quotes "It...is...great".


Somebody please make a photoshop of 5-star with the quote "This is an ugly, ugly game." :D
 
K

Kabuki Waq

Member
guys come on its pretty obvious what is going on.

It took them 4 days to issue that statement. The tried as best as they could to damage control without denying the rumour.


If that was the best they could do its pretty obvious what happened :(
 
D

Dyno

Member
AstroLad said:
If anything, I'd argue that its alleged prevalance further supports the notion that it should be discussed. There have been a lot of fun strands of argument throughout the thread (and trust me, I've been keeping mental notes on the A+ funnest) but "this is commonplace, therefore no discussion of it is warranted" has to be among the most specious so far.
Click to expand...

Exactly! I don't give a fuck if the movie industry lies and manipulates the public into watching their films; this is a different industry, a much newer industry, and we might be able to halt this kind of shit if we pillory the companies that try before they realise it can be done with impunity.

Right now publishers think it's okay to uber-hype mid-reviewed games (6-7/10) like Assassin's Creed or **** and ***** and dress them up as perfect games. We let it happen and eventually any shit-sandwhich is going to get teh awesome five starz!!!

Factor 5 didn't pull the crap Eidos did when Lair got canned, right? Well, let Eidos get away with this by purchasing their games in the future and rest assured Factor 5 will employ these tactics next time, along with all the other companies we buy games from.
 
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