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[PaintTinJr]

Let people have their fun and call for banns after the meeting if MS makes their intent clear to stay in the hardware business and they keep it up

I would just avoid this thread until there is something official if it really bothers you

I get your point that Microsoft probably will say they are still in the hardware market, but calling for bans IMO feels like it shuts down the normal conversation of how the industry works. My point being that regardless of what Microsoft say, the industry will decide if they are semantically out of the hardware business or not, because launching a product means nothing without adequate desired software to drive sales of hardware above a generation threshold (XB1 life time sales by today's standards) and command a comparable hardware tax from third parties to sell software on it to be differentiated as actual console hardware, rather than just a brand of custom PCs IMO.

This week, Microsoft (not Xbox) have hung all of Xbox's stakeholders out to dry with so much uncertainty negatively impacting install base numbers -my friend sold his series X because of this - and present and future software sales, that any publisher telling their devs to shelve plans of work on Xbox SKUs until the announcement would not be overreacting IMO, which has all leaned further towards a demise in Xbox's credibility as a platform for consumers and creators, and the entire reason why this new Vision is required is because Xbox's position was already shaky under tracking XB1 IIRC, and certainly couldn't afford being hung out to dry for a week to do maximum rumour damage.

I'm sure like a lot of us remember the demise of Atari and Sega, even Spectrum, BBC and Commodore, too, although not consoles, and can surely see similarities.

IMO, Microsoft have nowhere to go but day and date on Nitenndo/PlayStation and removal of day 1 on gamepass to protect jobs at their studios by actually selling their software at profitable prices on consoles, and that any staggering of releases for new titles or gamepass day 1 will risk those sales and jobs, and in that scenario, semantically they would be exiting hardware, unless there's some amazing loophole to have your cake and eat it, in terms of no exclusives and still get a 30% cut of lots of software sold on +40m hardware units.

 

[Disco Dave]

New console announcement incoming

 

[Lions Gate]

shit is more fucked up than we thought. phil is going down

 

[Yekshemesh]

If “the console war” was over, we’d all lose, because then Sony could charge whatever they want for the PS6 and PS7.

Ya want a PS6? $1300.

Competition keeps the prices in check

lmao other than the fact that this take is stupid. What's your proposal? People go out and buy an xbox that they don't want for the sake of competition? You want gamers to bail out the richest megacorp on earth? Why aren't you placing any blame on xbox's own fanbase for not supporting the platform they claim to love?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

shit is more fucked up than we thought. phil is going down

3 hours long, no timestamp, likely all guesses on their part?

 

[Badlucktroll]

Career moment incoming for my man Phil.

 

[MisterXDTV]

lmao other than the fact that this take is stupid. What's your proposal? People go out and buy an xbox that they don't want for the sake of competition? You want gamers to bail out the richest megacorp on earth? Why aren't you placing any blame on xbox's own fanbase for not supporting the platform they claim to love?

Exactly, it's like cheating on your wife and then complain because she leaves.....

Hardware doesn't sell, software doesn't sell on that hardware, subs to Gamepass don't increase. What do you think they are going to do???

The supposed Xbox lovers are the one that don't want to pay for games anymore and stacked YEARS of GPU with Rewards, Conversions and other shit...

MS was stupid to let that happen as the company is run by idiots, but Xbox users are to blame as well

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Is it too farfetched to think that the insider leaker who was disgruntled was Phil Spencer himself?

I think he truly does care about the legacy he has built with the current state of XBox and is egotistical enough to start this whole shit storm as a last ditch effort to sway his bosses all the while seeing himslef the martyr in his own head.

The fact he only tweeted the bare minimum then plans to let it simmer for a week knowing it will fester and exacerbate the behavior form the Xbox diehards only reinforceing his message to leadership.


Crazy i know but to me it just makes too much sense.

 

[Eiknarf]

lmao other than the fact that this take is stupid. What's your proposal? People go out and buy an xbox that they don't want for the sake of competition? You want gamers to bail out the richest megacorp on earth? Why aren't you placing any blame on xbox's own fanbase for not supporting the platform they claim to love?

This convo is already over, bro.

Move on

 

[Badlucktroll]

I felt that Microsoft buying all those game companies was foolish. It wouldn’t force people to xbox, now Satya wants some return on the investmens.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Its what happens when you try and put profit and shareholders before consumers and quality. They have it all backwards just like EA and Battlefield (amongst others).

Its not rocket science like i said, you make a quality product for your customers and the profits roll in.

They have near unlimited funds, no reason to be putting out half baked, broken products like they do.

It will cost them more in the long run as they are finding out.

That's the problem. MS had virtually unlimited funds and such things likely cut them off from any sort of financial discipline. Mo money mo problems.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Is it too farfetched to think that the insider leaker who was disgruntled was Phil Spencer himself?

I think he truly does care about the legacy he has built with the current state of XBox and is egotistical enough to start this whole shit storm as a last ditch effort to sway his bosses all the while seeing himslef the martyr in his own head.

The fact he only tweeted the bare minimum then plans to let it simmer for a week knowing it will fester and exacerbate the behavior form the Xbox diehards only reinforceing his message to leadership.


Crazy i know but to me it just makes too much sense.

Certainly is a possibility. Lol

It could also just be controlled leaks and FUD (like how they spread FUD about the 9Tflop PS5), so the initial reaction would take the heat off the actual bombshell business update.

 

[Hudo]

I found a new method of farming reactions and quotes. Nice.

No fun and shitposting allowed, you fucks!

 

[MisterXDTV]

The fact he only tweeted the bare minimum then plans to let it simmer for a week knowing it will fester and exacerbate the behavior form the Xbox diehards only reinforceing his message to leadership.

It will be more than a week, no way this thing is on monday....

It will be nearly two weeks of waiting for something that he could have addressed if he wanted to (unless he can't because of higher orders)

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The fact he only tweeted the bare minimum then plans to let it simmer for a week knowing it will fester and exacerbate the behavior form the Xbox diehards only reinforceing his message to leadership.

Does anyone think Nadella gives two fucks about Klobrille and Timdog having a meltdown?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Does anyone think Nadella gives two fucks about Klobrille and Timdog having a meltdown?

Klobrille and Timdog and their followers

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Does anyone think Nadella gives two fucks about Klobrille and Timdog having a meltdown?

No but i bet Phil thinks he does

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Klobrille and Timdog and their followers

I think it was Kinda Funny of all people who made the following point which is actually really solid.

Timdog and similar evangelist with there devoted following only acount for a small percentage of the total xbox community and the common gamer probably dosen't care whats going on but its those hardcore evangelist that rake in the most money for the ecosystem. If 20% of the users are buying 80% of the hardware/software/subs thats significant (exaggerated for effect)

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Klobrille and Timdog and their followers

Inconsequential

They’ll earn far more money going third party even if all their followers boycott MS

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Does anyone think Nadella gives two fucks about Klobrille and Timdog having a meltdown?

I don't even think Nadella really gives a fuck about Xbox.

 

[mayham2199]

3 hours long, no timestamp, likely all guesses on their part?

Apparently Cog has heard something about employee changes. Maybe not Phil exactly though but sounds like people high up.

 

[kruis]

Exactly, it's like cheating on your wife and then complain because she leaves.....

Hardware doesn't sell, software doesn't sell on that hardware, subs to Gamepass don't increase. What do you think they are going to do???

The supposed Xbox lovers are the one that don't want to pay for games anymore and stacked YEARS of GPU with Rewards, Conversions and other shit...

MS was stupid to let that happen as the company is run by idiots, but Xbox users are to blame as well

I think MS knowingly allowed those hacks to circumvent the official price because they were more interested in getting those subscription numbers than making money. But there comes a point when making money becomes more important than gaining subscribers. The millions of people who gamed the system and got three or more years of Game Pass at a bargain price now have to decide whether to pay full price or drop Game Pass. That's why subscriptions are plateauing and that's why I think lots of people are going to drop Game Pass and only resubscribe for 1 or 2 months to play certain games instead of keeping the sub running for years on end.

 

[Eiknarf]

Apparently, like others here have said, the news next week is supposedly gonna be that they’re not doing a “mid-gen refresh” like PS5 does with a PS5 Pro…etc XBOX is skipping that and instead of coming out with their next gen console in 2028 along with the PS6, they’re bumping the next XBOX up to two years early, in 2026

 

[mayham2199]

Apparently, like others here have said, the news next week is supposedly gonna be that they’re not doing a “mid-gen refresh” like PS5 does with a PS5 Pro…etc XBOX is skipping that and instead of coming out with their next gen console in 2028 along with the PS6, they’re bumping the next XBOX up to two years early, in 2026

There's no way that's all they announce.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Apparently, like others here have said, the news next week is supposedly gonna be that they’re not doing a “mid-gen refresh” like PS5 does with a PS5 Pro…etc XBOX is skipping that and instead of coming out with their next gen console in 2028 along with the PS6, they’re bumping the next XBOX up to two years early, in 2026

It's not gonna be a hardware reveal event... LOL

It doesn't make any sense...

They are not selling the two consoles they are making now and they are supposed to tell people: "In 2 years, we are launching another one!"

This way you piss off the ones who bought Series consoles, and the rest of the world doesn't care at all....

 

[kruis]

Apparently, like others here have said, the news next week is supposedly gonna be that they’re not doing a “mid-gen refresh” like PS5 does with a PS5 Pro…etc XBOX is skipping that and instead of coming out with their next gen console in 2028 along with the PS6, they’re bumping the next XBOX up to two years early, in 2026

MS is not going to announce a next gen Xbox two years ahead of time. That's going to kill current Xbox Series S/X hardware sales.

 

[tr1p1ex]

it seems like a nothing burger yet a gazillion tears have been cried.

 

[Moochi]

Making controllers is still technically "the hardware business"

 

[MisterXDTV]

I think MS knowingly allowed those hacks to circumvent the official price because they were more interested in getting those subscription numbers than making money. But there comes a point when making money becomes more important than gaining subscribers.

Absolutely

But they didn't think about the consequences of their strategy: if you train your userbase to find workarounds not to pay full price, when the time comes that you NEED them to pay full-price, they WON'T as they will find it too expensive...

It's the textbook definition of devaluing your brand....

 

[Moridianae]

MS is not going to announce a next gen Xbox two years ahead of time. That's going to kill current Xbox Series S/X hardware sales.

We live in a world now wherein news travels much more quickly, be it on Facebook, X, forums, Reddit, Tiktok, whatever.

What I'm saying is I think "killing their sales"(which were struggling, let's be honest) is already happening the longer this shit drags out like it has. People find out and make decisions.

Casual person in the market says "Huh. I could potentially get those games on a PlayStation or Nintendo anyway? Seems like a no-brainer to me."

Couple that with retailers removing Xbox, same person walks in to pick up a system for themselves or their child and sees, either Xbox "cards" or Nintendo Switch(or Switch 2) or PS5/PS5 Pro systems in the case.


They need to have a concise plan going forward, really. They've been misstepping since 2013. I hope they can correct them.

 

[kruis]

Absolutely

But they didn't think about the consequences of their strategy: if you train your userbase to find workarounds not to pay full price, when the time comes that you NEED them to pay full-price, they WON'T as they will find it too expensive...

It's the textbook definition of devaluing your brand....

Short term gains fucking up long term goals.... But that's MS for you.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I feel like the problem with gamepass was not the price of the service itself, in reality the service is not that cheap. $17.99 a month amounts to about 3 full priced $70 games which is probably what they hoped to put out per year in terms of AAA.

The problem was that they conditioned their userbase to not buy stuff at full price, not even gamepass. With gold conversion, $1 free trials, rewards and all the other ways to get gamepass for basically inconsequential amounts no wonder they are bleeding money. They also conditioned their userbase to not buy games from third parties either, in the hopes of them coming to gamepass. Which fucked up their ecosystem even more and probably wasn't good for their relationship with 3rd party publishers.

Gamepass would have found some success being a complementary sub in the vein of EA, Ubisoft etc, with just Microsoft owned content (yes even day 1 MS games) and other older games + the BC compatible catalog. But the way they pushed it ended up devaluing the whole platform.

 

[lepermessiah]

Saw where the wind was blowing some time ago. Xbox was always a stripped-down living room PC (TBF PS5 is too, I miss exotic architecture... ) and Microsoft need to maximise profits. It all checks. The meltdowns are pretty juicy though and I'm enjoying them immensely. PHIL GETTING ME ALL JUICY

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Okay, but I think that's a pretty significant change, at least from the standpoint of the Xbox console and brand. Granted, the console wasn't selling terribly well before this, but if rumors are true, it would mean a greatly accelerated downfall for the Xbox hardware and brand. Sort of like the memes of taking Old Yeller out back. I don't think it will be that extreme -- they aren't going full third-party next week. But it's one thing to be lagging in the sales race and another to drastically undercut incentives for people to buy the system. Maybe the system was struggling, but now you've accelerated that downward momentum; you've put it into a higher gear. That seems like a big change to me.

I think of the "social" effects, too. You are going to alienate a lot of the Xbox faithful. Plenty of them will feel misled and discouraged by this. Some will jump ship. Some will wonder what might happen to their game libraries or whether it's smart to continue to buy games (not that they're doing this in droves now, but you'd be giving them less reason to). So you're having a destabilizing effect on your core fanbase. That's pretty significant, too.

Yes its a significant change. But at the same time, in a weird way, it may end up working out for the best for them.

Making your game available on PS5 gives you a LOT of exposure. Its gets people talking about your game a lot more than they otherwise would have done if it was exclusive to PC and gamepass. Now if that game is good, the millions of people that buy it on the PS5 doesnt just give you some much-needed ROI, theyt also give you a lot of word of mouth and ends up being a really good commercial as to why gamepass is good. This could end up giving gamepass subs a much-needed shot in the arm.

I know this all sounds very convoluted and there is a lot of ifs and maybes, but this is the absolute best-case scenario way of looking at it. The problem, the real problem, is that not a lot of people actually care about Xbox as a brand. They could use the Playstation brand to launder their own brand.... as weird as that may sound.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Inconsequential

They’ll earn far more money going third party even if all their followers boycott MS

Was my point

 

[DForce]

Apparently, like others here have said, the news next week is supposedly gonna be that they’re not doing a “mid-gen refresh” like PS5 does with a PS5 Pro…etc XBOX is skipping that and instead of coming out with their next gen console in 2028 along with the PS6, they’re bumping the next XBOX up to two years early, in 2026

Phil noted that he heard the concerns from people on the internet and said there would be a business update next week. This means it's way more significant than a hardware update.

This update is also coming from Microsoft and that makes me believe Phil would not be the one delivering the bad news after his pro-consumer approach over the past 8 years.

 

[mayham2199]

Yes its a significant change. But at the same time, in a weird way, it may end up working out for the best for them.

Making your game available on PS5 gives you a LOT of exposure. Its gets people talking about your game a lot more than they otherwise would have done if it was exclusive to PC and gamepass. Now if that game is good, the millions of people that buy it on the PS5 doesnt just give you some much-needed ROI, theyt also give you a lot of word of mouth and ends up being a really good commercial as to why gamepass is good. This could end up giving gamepass subs a much-needed shot in the arm.

I know this all sounds very convoluted and there is a lot of ifs and maybes, but this is the absolute best-case scenario way of looking at it. The problem, the real problem, is that not a lot of people actually care about Xbox as a brand. They could use the Playstation brand to launder their own brand.... as weird as that may sound.

Yea I heard them bring up this scenario on Defining Duke. Anything is possible but it's a hail mary play that is most likely not going to do anything. If they go full multiplat I think what is going to happen is what anybody who knows this industry can you tell you would happen.

Their consoles sales will drop even more and they'll make more money on their software. How far will the consoles sales fall? Who knows.

I don't think GP is bringing over anyone. Sub services have stalled on both systems. On top of that the word of mouth would have to be incredible to promote GP. Which goes back to MS's original problem making great games. They haven't been able to do that in a long time so why would bringing their games to PS all of sudden lead to them making game so good it leads to promotion of GP?

 

[Bernardougf]

It isn't just plastic. People who have had an Xbox for 20 years like me, have gone on a long gaming journey and yes it is emotional and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Humans get attached to things, to particular games, to a particular community - Xbox is where our memories are, where are friends are. This is now in danger of all going away. Of course people will be concerned about that. It isn't a fridge or a washing machine, getting emotionally attached to a particular brand of those would be weird, but gaming is unique. It's a big part of a lot of people's lives. All these comments who think they are clever saying 'it's just plastic' are really stupid.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Apparently, like others here have said, the news next week is supposedly gonna be that they’re not doing a “mid-gen refresh” like PS5 does with a PS5 Pro…etc XBOX is skipping that and instead of coming out with their next gen console in 2028 along with the PS6, they’re bumping the next XBOX up to two years early, in 2026

 

[solidus12]

Colt received a text telling him that things will be better for Xbox.

Here’s his reaction:

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Yea I heard them bring up this scenario on Defining Duke. Anything is possible but it's a hail mary play that is most likely not going to do anything. If they go full multiplat I think what is going to happen is what anybody who knows this industry can you tell you would happen.

Their consoles sales will drop even more and they'll make more money on their software. How far will the consoles sales fall? Who knows.

I don't think GP is bringing over anyone. Sub services have stalled on both systems. On top of that the word of mouth would have to be incredible to promote GP. Which goes back to MS's original problem making great games. They haven't been able to do that in a long time so why would bringing their games to PS all of sudden lead to them making game so good it leads to promotion of GP?

Agreed. I dont think the sub-services are going anywhere though. The subs service is the platform holder equivalent of a rental service or a used game market. At least for sony. Its even possible that sometime in the future MS stops putting games on gamepass day 1.

The only issue with sub-services is how MS decided to go about doing it. For gamepass to do well, then you need a LOT of subscribers. Things like PS+ extra/premium can do just fine with the ~15M subs they had at as at March 2023 (they had around 33M PS+ essential subs). Because that PS+ extra and premium is really just a glorified game rental service and for end-of-life type games. Basically, games that wouldn't necessarily be doing more than 500k sales a year.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Colt received a text telling him that things will be better for Xbox.

Here’s his reaction:

“The Console War Is Over”

- Coalteastwood

 

[Eiknarf]

MS is not going to announce a next gen Xbox two years ahead of time. That's going to kill current Xbox Series S/X hardware sales.

This is where I got the info. I NOW see it’s a month old… but why is this guy saying that?

(It’s a YouTube short)

 

[Lions Gate]

Colt received a text telling him that things will be better for Xbox.

Here’s his reaction:

 

[Sorcerer]

edit

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

This is where I got the info. I NOW see it’s a month old… but why is this guy saying that?

(It’s a YouTube short)

Oh Jeff Grubb leaked that?

Grubb took info from others as we have been talking about next Xbox here awhile now

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/rumo...next-xbox-is-coming-sooner-than-2028.1664724/

 

[deriks]

Hype train by @TGO:

Can I enter this hype train?

Industry is about to change and I'm going to go inside

 

[Humdinger]

Yes its a significant change. But at the same time, in a weird way, it may end up working out for the best for them.

Making your game available on PS5 gives you a LOT of exposure. Its gets people talking about your game a lot more than they otherwise would have done if it was exclusive to PC and gamepass. Now if that game is good, the millions of people that buy it on the PS5 doesnt just give you some much-needed ROI, theyt also give you a lot of word of mouth and ends up being a really good commercial as to why gamepass is good. This could end up giving gamepass subs a much-needed shot in the arm.

I know this all sounds very convoluted and there is a lot of ifs and maybes, but this is the absolute best-case scenario way of looking at it. The problem, the real problem, is that not a lot of people actually care about Xbox as a brand. They could use the Playstation brand to launder their own brand.... as weird as that may sound.

I get what you're saying, and I agree. This could end up helping Game Pass, in the way you describe. I'd add that releasing on PS also takes the console warrioring out of the equation, which does play a role in a game's reception at times. That might help a bit, too. If this shift in strategy would somehow clear the way for them to get GP on Playstation, that would help a lot. Sony will resist that, though.

I don't think a boost to GP would result in better console sales, though. That's where my focus was -- the impact of all this on the Xbox console and the brand itself.

 

[Rob_27]

From my experience business updates are never good. Lay offs or take overs.

 

[Sorcerer]

shit is more fucked up than we thought. phil is going down

Matty: "An Xbox retrospective potentially" LOL!!!