My apologies, I assumed you were saying that every single person who bought a Switch also bought Zelda which is obviously not true (because 58% attach rate in Japan). Whereas I guess you were just saying there are as many Zelda copies for Switch as there are consoles? Which is obviously 100% true.
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Phil Spencer: We're upping our investment with first party and committed to innovate
- Thread starter leeh
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My apologies, I assumed you were saying that every single person who bought a Switch also bought Zelda which is obviously not true (because 58% attach rate in Japan). Whereas I guess you were just saying there are as many Zelda copies for Switch as there are consoles? Which is obviously 100% true.
Maintenance
Member
Mission accomplished.
General Lee
Member
As long as they make games that succeed, they'll succeed. Certainly a succesful mp game with constant revenue stream is great, but those don't grow on trees any more than good story based sp games. Personally I don't subscribe (literally or figuratively) to any of this mp microtransaction bs and would prefer sp games, so it's sad to see publishers seeing that as the only way to make money these days, yet fail to see that to be actually succesful there you'd have to overthrow the current incumbents. And even if you create a mp game that isn't a direct competitor to stuff like Overwatch, I think most people stick to very few mp games as their staples.
So MS is going to develop games by executives, revenue data and sales charts telling the devs what games they have to do and what they should focus on. It surely sounds like the best way to use the talent of the devs and create groundbreaking masterpieces that will make everyone want to play them.
Maybe this had something to do with the Scalebound debacle?
Maybe this had something to do with the Scalebound debacle?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Gears and Halo aren't service games, unless you think every game with a multiplayer falls under that category.
Outside of Forza, aren't those IP's on the decline anyway? Like I said before, third parties take up most of service MP games anyway. There's only so many that people can consume. I think balancing things out with some single player games would work better for them than effectively trying to compete with third parties.
1st Course
Member
Phil Harrison: Microsoft making $1B bet on Xbox One games - 05-24-2013
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=565581
Yeah I will beileve it when I see it.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=565581
Yeah I will beileve it when I see it.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Hey its not like you shut down an entire studio when a GAAS game didnt work out *cough Fable:Legends*cough*
I think the way Microsoft see it is. they could make $1 billion with three games and micro transaction revenue or $1 billion with six games but less micro transaction revenue. They will bet on the highest return for the least investment.
I'm awaiting to see how stuffed Sea of Thieves, State of Decay end up being with micro transactions. The former feels like some big secret they are hiding for later.
I'm awaiting to see how stuffed Sea of Thieves, State of Decay end up being with micro transactions. The former feels like some big secret they are hiding for later.
tiredheadcrab
Member
Because their install base is twice that on Xbox. Sonys core business is PlayStation.
Console makers have spent a lot of effort and marketing dollars to create that perception and maintain it, imo. Hopefully over time it will change.
GHG
Member
They absolutely are from the microtransaction perspective.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I believe that also has to do with the fact that they put those games directly in the line of fire with games that will absolutely eat sales it makes no sense
You'd still need a developer for it, since Mistwalker is like five guys in Hawaii
I H8 Memes
Member
Ahhhhhh the early days of an xbox generation. Are we here again? That magical time when MS will buy up a bunch of 3rd party exclusives and then promise 1st party games in the future from studios that dont exist or will be closed down in the next 3 years once all of the suckers have bought an xbox. Is that where we are again?
dead souls
Member
The current direction of Xbox is everything I don't want in gaming. I can't believe I went from owning 100+ 360 games to not even buying an XB1 at all.
As long as they are missing so many Japanese games I can't imagine anything that would make choose them over the PS4.
As long as they are missing so many Japanese games I can't imagine anything that would make choose them over the PS4.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
nycgamer4ever
Member
The problem is with this strategy is that the GAAS model is also extremely competitive now. They are not the only company to gravitate towards this model. It's caught fire on mobile and have already moved to consoles already. They are late to the party, and have neglected a large portion of their single player games fan base in the process.
Doubling down on games as a service is absolutely fucking pointless if you're trying to market that you now have the most powerful console ever made IMO. Might as well just buy an S for the trifecta and be done with it.
What's the point of having Scorpio if you aren't going to be developing games like Horizon and Zelda that visually and technically push the limits of what the console can do? I'm sure the likes of Destiny 2 and the next COD will look great, but I'd be stunned if either are anywhere near the fidelity of some of the SP stuff we've seen from Sony this gen.
What's the point of having Scorpio if you aren't going to be developing games like Horizon and Zelda that visually and technically push the limits of what the console can do? I'm sure the likes of Destiny 2 and the next COD will look great, but I'd be stunned if either are anywhere near the fidelity of some of the SP stuff we've seen from Sony this gen.
benicillin
Banned
Phil Spencers sweet little lies.
I've heard this from MS a lot before, because they've said it a lot, but I miss when it was *actually* the case. 360 had some fantastic new IPs and they haven't really done much since the second half of that generation.
I've heard this from MS a lot before, because they've said it a lot, but I miss when it was *actually* the case. 360 had some fantastic new IPs and they haven't really done much since the second half of that generation.
Quantum Break, which I rented, is astoundingly mediocre and not worth spending any money on. Recore wasn't even finished and was described as a disappointment in a myriad of ways and Ryse, which I haven't gotten around to yet, wasn't especially well-received or reviewed. It's not really some huge leap to say that's not a very impressive list. With how absurdly competitive and terrific the gaming landscape is now, I'm not spending money on fucking Quantum Break. Are you saying that list is impressive?
GHG
Member
Is KI F2P now? Or are you referring to the "seasons" model?
I wouldn't be surprised if they released the multiplayer modes of Gears and Halo as F2P at some point down the line.
Already happened.
Looking forward to their E3 big time. Can't wait to see State of Decay 2 in full force..not to mention Crackdown.
Eh, I bought Quantum Break twice and put over 60 hours into it. It's a good game. Play Ryse on the Hardest setting and make sure you use the finishers to boost the stats you need on the fly. It's still free for Gold members, so be sure you downloaded it. Bought it Day one and really enjoyed it. Hardest setting and multiplayer are pretty good.
There are people here that are just now getting into Ryse with Games for Gold, so put your Gamertag up and they can play multi with you.
I do think it's actually very difficult to be a studio that can make a really successful singleplayer centric game.
Generally the types of games that sell best are:
1.) Ones that match the conditions of the market.
2.) Ones that are so exceptional that they succeed despite the current conditions of the market.
Microsoft doesn't have a bench of studios with strong singleplayer legacies, so it's much harder to go and succeed on that front.
Like yes, Guerrilla managed to go from having relatively poor reception to making a very well received game, but it's not like Sony didn't dump a ton of partners and titles along the way getting to that.
Now, I agree with the person who said that first parties, especially outside their flagship titles, are often best served making games that expand the audience for their platform instead of trying to compete with $30+ billion market cap juggernauts, but you still need the actual talent to do that.
Similarly, while Zelda is a huge success, you don't see Nintendo wheeling out a game like that every year. Zelda took five years to develop and is on the Switch in part because its development cycle went much longer than expected. In between games like that, they actually wheel out a lot of... service games like Splatoon, ARMS, Mario Kart, and Smash.
Now, I think Microsoft's first party line-up is actually pretty bad. They're not selling anywhere near what they used to, nor are many of their games resonating with niche purchasers, but that's something they can't really change quickly given games take 3-5 years to make these days.
Generally the types of games that sell best are:
1.) Ones that match the conditions of the market.
2.) Ones that are so exceptional that they succeed despite the current conditions of the market.
Microsoft doesn't have a bench of studios with strong singleplayer legacies, so it's much harder to go and succeed on that front.
Like yes, Guerrilla managed to go from having relatively poor reception to making a very well received game, but it's not like Sony didn't dump a ton of partners and titles along the way getting to that.
Now, I agree with the person who said that first parties, especially outside their flagship titles, are often best served making games that expand the audience for their platform instead of trying to compete with $30+ billion market cap juggernauts, but you still need the actual talent to do that.
Similarly, while Zelda is a huge success, you don't see Nintendo wheeling out a game like that every year. Zelda took five years to develop and is on the Switch in part because its development cycle went much longer than expected. In between games like that, they actually wheel out a lot of... service games like Splatoon, ARMS, Mario Kart, and Smash.
Now, I think Microsoft's first party line-up is actually pretty bad. They're not selling anywhere near what they used to, nor are many of their games resonating with niche purchasers, but that's something they can't really change quickly given games take 3-5 years to make these days.
Milly Osworth
Member
Words iz no gamez.
Dark_3nergy
Member
..But they don't have the same impact that they use to have...????
????
Deputy Moonman
Member
Lol at everyone mentioning breath of the wild while at the same time ignoring that nintendo skipped an entire generation to release it. I guess no one should be upset with phil for deciding he'll wait until next gen to pursue that avenue. Literally the same difference.
So expect even less big AAA single-player focused games from them?
I know it's damn tempting to chase that big MP/Twitch/YouTube/Microtransaction money train, but your platform is going to suffer if you're not delivering some solid first-party single player titles as well. I really wonder how this will play out for them. I think Nintendo is pretty damn stoked on how Zelda was received and sold. Same with Sony and Horizon.
I know it's damn tempting to chase that big MP/Twitch/YouTube/Microtransaction money train, but your platform is going to suffer if you're not delivering some solid first-party single player titles as well. I really wonder how this will play out for them. I think Nintendo is pretty damn stoked on how Zelda was received and sold. Same with Sony and Horizon.
StereoVsn
Member
Yeah, while there is a good point here about properly scheduling releases, FFXV sold well in the end of November/December. God of War will sell well. Spiderman will sell well. RDR2 will sell well. Horizon would have sold well in the Holiday season.
The issue is thought that MS is not going to bother with SP games and they cancelled Scalebound and Fable. Of course what sells the best at the end are the large MP multiplats (and GTA) and Sony is making a smart move grabbing the marketing deals. However, what various SP games that Sony produces do is they pad out the library, give customers more variety. Maybe Uncharted alone is not enough to sway someone (or Last of Us, or P5 or Horizon or Spiderman or GoW, etc...) but if they can get their multiplat AND get a great cache of other types of games to boot, why would they go to the competitor who is lacking that?
Triggerhappytel
Member
Presumably fewer titles of bigger budget and each supported for longer.
Except that it has worked for decades and putting all of your eggs in one basket to chase a relatively new trend in the market is an incredibly bad idea?!
I sincerely doubt that? They've shut down a handful in the last few years and seem more intent on keeping with their core few studios and partnering with third party developers on new stuff.
Yeah, I kind of agree with this. It's probably even more troubling if he really does believe that people spend 10 hours with an SP game and then forget about it.
Agree with both of these. Third party publishers seem to have this market very well served and it's going to be just as hard to break in with a massively popular multiplayer game as it would be to launch a very popular single player game.
He's been saying a lot of things about first party for a long time. This E3 is crucial IMO. It's time to put up or shut up.
I agree. Small games and niche games are crucial to an interesting first party line-up.
LordBaztion
Member
they started being more cautios with their announcements last E3, so I expect they to have started picking up games since early 2015. By next year I think they will have something to show.
Three and a half years in:
List of games on the XBox1 that interest me:
Ori and the Blind Forest (Played it on Steam, loved it)
Rare Replay
Sunset Overdrive
Upcoming Microsoft titles that interest me:
Cuphead
I honestly wouldn't mind eventually getting an XBox1 just because I really want Rare Replay and 360 BC, but it sounds like it will never hit that critical mass of content to justify the purchase.
List of games on the XBox1 that interest me:
Ori and the Blind Forest (Played it on Steam, loved it)
Rare Replay
Sunset Overdrive
Upcoming Microsoft titles that interest me:
Cuphead
I honestly wouldn't mind eventually getting an XBox1 just because I really want Rare Replay and 360 BC, but it sounds like it will never hit that critical mass of content to justify the purchase.
Damn straight. Launching those games in the fall/holiday season? That's damn near commercial suicide.
Again, Sony seems to be getting this down. Launching several of those major games away from the big third party mammoths that make up most of the holiday season.
Yeah...if Microsoft is happy with WiiU level success for the XboxOne....
nycgamer4ever
Member
I with you on those concerns. I have an Xbox One S also and it rarely gets used. However It is a decent UHD player so if you have a 4k tv it's still the cheapers UHD player I think. Logan is coming in May so I will be booting it up for that.
Wouldn't it take years for any results?
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Even if you want those holiday sales I can't help it think there's a better way to get them. Why put your consumer base in a tight squeeze between supporting your games or supporting the plethora of third party services games released between sep-November.
3 of the biggest titles are releasing between those months and I fully expect coming out of e3 Microsoft will stuff their games into those periods because they have to they haven't really released well anything really third party exclusive or first party wise
GHG
Member
They have been late to the party with everything since they had their heads turned by the Wii during the 360 days.
"Oh look, that's making money, let's do that!"
And then by the time they actually release their version of whatever it was that they thought was hot the market is already moving on to the next thing. They need to understand that to really make serious money you need to invest and innovate in making the next big thing, but that would involve effort beyond looking at a few spreadsheets to decide what to do next.
boneyjangles
Member
As long as they are developing stuff from the ground up, and not seeing something potentially cool for all platforms, and then buying it up exclusively for Xbox, i'm fine with it.
(I'm still bitter about Halo going to Xbox, back from when I used to PC game as a kid).
On another note, a really big proportion of my favorite games ever are single platform focus, I often wonder does multi-plat somewhat dilute quality and focus.
(I'm still bitter about Halo going to Xbox, back from when I used to PC game as a kid).
On another note, a really big proportion of my favorite games ever are single platform focus, I often wonder does multi-plat somewhat dilute quality and focus.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Woah, his comment about singleplayer games is disappointing. 
I currently own a PS4 Pro, and I really thought about getting the Scorpio for first party titles and better looking third party titles, but honestly, a few graphical improvements alone aren't that important to me. I'd rather support a company which has consistently released countless high quality singleplayer games, for years. Couldn't care less about this "games as a service" crap.
I currently own a PS4 Pro, and I really thought about getting the Scorpio for first party titles and better looking third party titles, but honestly, a few graphical improvements alone aren't that important to me. I'd rather support a company which has consistently released countless high quality singleplayer games, for years. Couldn't care less about this "games as a service" crap.
Yeah, that's a problem. They should be building a portfolio right now, cutting their teeth this gen with new studios and IP, leading into the next gen like Sony did instead of coasting and having little to show for it next gen. The bigger user base is there for less risk.
Gemüsepizza;235025698 said:Woah, his comment about singleplayer games is disappointing.
I currently own a PS4 Pro, and I really thought about getting the Scorpio for first party titles and better looking third party titles, but honestly, a few graphical improvements alone aren't that important to me. I'd rather support a company which has consistently released countless high quality singleplayer games, for years. Couldn't care less about this "games as a service" crap.
Cool. Carry on and continue with your support. Choices and all of that...
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