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[cryptoadam]

Pretty sure Reggie said in an interview recently that the minis were more of a thing to fill between WiiU and Switch and that there were no plans for N64 mini and all effort would be going into Nintendo online. Then again, it is exec talk, so you can probably expect one to be announced next week!

I think Nintendo sees a N64 mini as not such a great product. Its going to be expensive in comparison to the NES/SNES. 100$ is still a lot and a bit out of impulse buy territory. The controlers are probably more expensive then NES/SNES controllers, especially if you add in rumble packs.

Then you have the game issue, since more the iconic games are locked behind licensing issues. Goldeneye, rare games, WWE/WCW games etc...

And then the simple fact that the N64 wasn't a huge hit and those early 3D games don't hold up as well (as seen with the PS Classic) and it has more chance to fail then succeed.

I think holding off and seeing how Sony does in the 32 bit nostalgia generation might be a good move. Especially with Smash launching, everyone knows that Smash would of been a big game on the N64 classic. Since Ultimate has all the characters and stages anyways it takes the shine off Smash 64.

 

[Andyliini]

I remember certain someone making a prediction that this device will outsell both NES and SNES Mini combined. I never believed this would sell 10 million in the first place, let alone when it seems to be a bad product. Well see though, as general public usually does not care about quality.

 

[MilesTeg]

This product could have sold well and made money, clearly Sony doesn't see much of an opportunity here.

Pretty half assed effort just to have a product alongside the snes and nes mini.

According to that article, they claim the original PS has more power so what is the point in even hacking the console for enthusiasts.

Also the fact that the console doesn't have dual shock is ridiculous and just goes to show that Sony really doesn't care about this product.

 

[DForce]

If they had the opportunity to get better games on the mini console then it's terrible the way they handled this product.

Gran Turismo
Tony Hawk 2
Tomb Raider
Twisted Metal 2
Crash Bandicoot

 

[stranno]

If they had the opportunity to get better games on the mini console then it's terrible the way they handled this product.

Gran Turismo
Tony Hawk 2
Tomb Raider
Twisted Metal 2
Crash Bandicoot

GT & TH just have too many music and brands outdated licenses, it doesnt worth for Sony.

 

[dolabla]

I am just mind blown they are including 50hz games. What are they thinking? What is the purpose of this? Why are they sabotaging their own product? This thing is going to be a total disaster.

 

[bilderberg]

GT & TH just have too many music and brands outdated licenses, it doesnt worth for Sony.

Consumer isn't going to care about licensing deals. That's sony's problem.

 

[Redneckerz]

60 fps has been the staple of video games since the Atari 2600 as far as I can remember; anybody claiming that it was not the standard doesn't know history.

Because coming in the 3D ERA on home consoles (and PC's even) it was not the standard. And i know my history, going as far as knowing which exact GPU's were used in the Sega Model 2 based titles you mentioned later (Let alone Model 3).

If we're talking about polygon-based games, Daytona USA, Virtual On and all the classic AM2 arcade games ran at 60 fps and that was before the PS1 came along.

I feel this is an unfair comparison:

• Sega Model series were full of custom chips, Model 2 taking a 2 million dollar texture mapping chip to put in 200k costing arcade machines. It was a time comparable to 60's NASA where a surplus of money was thrown at the advancement of visuals without taking much consideration for eventual losses. You simply could not replicate that in home tech, but when the PS1 arrived, multiple vendors jumped the ball and released PSX based boards as it offered cheap 3D compared to the big boys (Namco, Sega)

I hang out in the arcades in the 90's so having to play the OG PS1 with low frame rates and long loading times came as a shock to me.

Which is rather the opposite of most people's impressions from the time however. In 1994, the PSX delivered texture mapped visuals not even PC's at the time could reproduce. Then again, Arcade already supported OpenGL and T&L, which were 5 years ahead of the curve. They had the according pricetag to match it, however. Custom hardware always costs pennies.

In that era, I chose to play 2D games instead as 2D was the only thing that ran flawlessly on home consoles, especially when the 1M RAM Cart was utilized on the Saturn which virtually eliminated the loading times (no amount of 4x speed can mitigate the fact that the PS1 had limited RAM which means that data would have to be loaded from the CD again and again).

Arcades loaded from ROM among other things which is ofcourse a lot more quicker. The irony of it is that the PSX saw widespread arcade adaption and was around till 2006 or so. The PS2 had a similar fate.

Back then 60 FPS was only feasible for the ultra high end, which was the arcade. Most people had to deal with less stellar 3D, although the N64 was quite good for its time.

My point is that Sony should re-introduce the PS1 that can run the games as they were originally presented.

Which is... how? Some games appeared in the arcade aswell and used PSX boards there too. Namco in particular modified their PSX's to support higher clocks and more RAM.

 

[TLZ]

I had the second entry, but looking at DD today does not inspire me to play it. It hasn't aged well to put it mildly.

Tbh, that whole generation has aged badly. It's my least favorite one. I'll still get it for nostalgia sake though. Just like I would the N64 and whatever official mini classic comes out.

 

[zackmorris]

No clue, but he was never part of management or decider of corporate strategy, just head hardware guy.

And while ps4 was a ‘good enough’ piece of kit, it only succeeded as much as it has because it launched against the kinected X1 and wiiu—possibly the two least competitive consoles ever designed with some of the worst software support. It wasn’t some genius device, just a pc with the money spent in the right areas.

Yeah I’m going to have to completely disagree with you. Cerny was the main architect of the PS4, his role in the PS4 is why it was successful. Mainly his idea of just making a great gaming console and not worrying about the other nonsense.

Microsoft, with its always online, Kinect focused, entertainment hub pitch wasn’t a marketing gimmick. It was a fundamental design point of the console. The poor design of that console is what set it up for its struggles.

The PS4 didn’t launch with a slew of great exclusives. It wasn’t the software pushing sales at console launch.

 

[Theognosis]

Because coming in the 3D ERA on home consoles (and PC's even) it was not the standard. And i know my history, going as far as knowing which exact GPU's were used in the Sega Model 2 based titles you mentioned later (Let alone Model 3).


I feel this is an unfair comparison:

• Sega Model series were full of custom chips, Model 2 taking a 2 million dollar texture mapping chip to put in 200k costing arcade machines. It was a time comparable to 60's NASA where a surplus of money was thrown at the advancement of visuals without taking much consideration for eventual losses. You simply could not replicate that in home tech, but when the PS1 arrived, multiple vendors jumped the ball and released PSX based boards as it offered cheap 3D compared to the big boys (Namco, Sega)

Which is rather the opposite of most people's impressions from the time however. In 1994, the PSX delivered texture mapped visuals not even PC's at the time could reproduce. Then again, Arcade already supported OpenGL and T&L, which were 5 years ahead of the curve. They had the according pricetag to match it, however. Custom hardware always costs pennies.


Arcades loaded from ROM among other things which is ofcourse a lot more quicker. The irony of it is that the PSX saw widespread arcade adaption and was around till 2006 or so. The PS2 had a similar fate.

Back then 60 FPS was only feasible for the ultra high end, which was the arcade. Most people had to deal with less stellar 3D, although the N64 was quite good for its time.


Which is... how? Some games appeared in the arcade aswell and used PSX boards there too. Namco in particular modified their PSX's to support higher clocks and more RAM.

Please stop talking like all games in the 90's were polygon-based. Nearly all 2D games ran at 60 fps going back to the 80's and that made it the standard. Oh well...

 

[Darklor01]

Leave it to Sony to screw up one of the things that's pretty much carrying the company these days.
Just an hour ago I was reading about the Xperia XZ4 leak, still nothing learned in that department.
Then they release a fast cash grab of a classic system which is symbolic instead of putting in actual work and release a product they can hold their heads high about.
......SMH....

This is a screw up, no doubt.. but .. a whole different division of the company with totally different management run the phone division. Same with TV division or computer division. Just wanted to mention that.

Back to proper, they screwed this one up comments.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

 

[Redneckerz]

Please stop talking like all games in the 90's were polygon-based. Nearly all 2D games ran at 60 fps going back to the 80's and that made it the standard. Oh well...

We were talking 3d games and the framerates it had there, not 2D. The standard there was usually 60 hz, but i figured that was obvious and not worth mentioning.

 

[TLZ]

Well, since everyone's on the shitting on it train, I guess I can't wait to finally have it in 4 days

I'm just bummed about the absence of analogue sticks, for whenever the thing is hacked and I need them.

 

[Theognosis]

We were talking 3d games and the framerates it had there, not 2D. The standard there was usually 60 hz, but i figured that was obvious and not worth mentioning.

It was only on the PS2 that Sony delivered on the promise of good 3D games which mostly ran at 60 fps. As such, I'd buy a PS2 Classic in a heartbeat and skip the PS1 Classic altogether as far as 3D games are concerned. I reckon that on the PS1, given that it was a horrible 3D console, its best games were 2D (SOTN, Suikuden, FF Tactics and SF Alpha 3). These 2D games that can hold up to this day unaltered should be included in the Playstation Classic and not the 3D junk that it's offering now.

 

[Redneckerz]

It was only on the PS2 that Sony delivered on the promise of good 3D games which mostly ran at 60 fps.

So how would you conclude something like GoldenEye 007 or Crash Bandicoot then?

Or Sega Y Board stuff? (This is a tricky one, i should add.)

I reckon that on the PS1, given that it was a horrible 3D console,

It was far from being horrible. Yes it had texture warping, but it also supported a lot of nifty colour effects. I can throw up a few PC based GPU's that do 3D far worse (But they do texture filtering so i guess its the gritty look with low FPS that does it for you?). Its 1994 hardware for a consumer in home market. Using the arcade as the only absolute argument is going to leave everything that falls underneath that (N64 included) as disappointing, which i don't find a realistic take to make. Let alone that arcade hardware back then was incredible, but also incredibly expensive, in terms of 3D.

its best games were 2D (SOTN, Suikuden, FF Tactics and SF Alpha 3). These 2D games that can hold up to this day unaltered should be included in the Playstation Classic and not the 3D junk that it's offering now.

Such games are less known by the general public than what we have now. PS Classic is marketed with a best of series of games, not 2D games that still hold up today list.

 

[CloudStrife_ca]

Although this thread has been a real downer and almost made me reconsider, I remind myself that soon after someone will hack this and unlike my nes/ snes classics I will actually hack this mini console to put the games I want on it.

 

[JORMBO]

Digital Foundry is up:

 

[Spukc]

And until next time... stay retro.

Just not with this thing...

HOLY SHIT that was SAVAGE.

 

[Redneckerz]

And until next time... stay retro.

Just not with this thing...

HOLY SHIT that was SAVAGE.

Still have to see but John looking angry is something very different from his regular program code/range of emotions

There is however, a missed opportunity to do a remake of this Linneman Classic:



''This......... is a grey shell.''

 

[stranno]

Its not really fair to compare the PSC image quality with XRGB-Mini output quality.

Back in the day pretty much no one had a good image quality solution. 50% of the people probably used an incredible-low-quality antenna connection, 40% of the people probably used a quite-yet-acceptable-low-quality composite connection. And that 10% maybe (i doubt it) used a decent-yet-still-not-really-great-quality-in-CRT-televisions RGB SCART connection.

In mid-90s the image quality was waaaaaaaaaaay (i mean, WAY) worse than PSC.

Not a excuse, of course, PSC just sucks in every single way.

 

[Kazza]

Ah, the review we've all been waiting for!

What a weird product from Sony. Some aspects seem to have a lot of love and care put into them (eg the front end and the outer box), whereas others (pretty much everything else) are just a mess.

As said in the video, one of the worst things about this whole thing is how it will negatively affect the impression that people have, not only of these games, but of the original Playstation as a system. I hope whatever money Sony makes from this has been worth pissing on their own history.

 

[Bigfroth]

I canceled my pre-order after seeing the horrible emulation. I really liked the two Nintendo mini's it's disappointing to see Sony drop the ball with this product. This looks like a cheap (really not so cheap lol 99$) cash grab.

 

[Bryank75]

They need to leave this rest for 2 to 3 years and come back with a better concept and way better execution. Downloadable games, where it can tap into a PS4 to load what games you want, the best version of each game and some leaderboards or something .

 

[Kazza]

As a UK based player who had a Saturn back in the day, what is the best way to explore the Playstation library?

Options include:
1. Buy original discs from ebay and play them on the PS2 that I bought a little while back - but wouldn't these run at 50Hz, being the pal versions?
2. Buy digital copies on PSN to play on my PS3 - again, am I correct in assuming that these would be the 50Hz PAL versions if I bought these using my UK PSN account? Is their any way to set up a US account and buy them on US PSN instead? Would they accept a UK card or paypal?
3. Buy a PSP/Vita. - buying these on PSN would presumably have the same 50Hz issue as with my PS3. Most PSPs on ebay seem to have been cracked. Could these play emulated 60Hz versions?
4. Emulate on PC
5. Buy a Playstation Classic - haha, only joking (obviously)

 

[Shotpun]

As a UK based player who had a Saturn back in the day, what is the best way to explore the Playstation library?

Options include:
1. Buy original discs from ebay and play them on the PS2 that I bought a little while back - but wouldn't these run at 50Hz, being the pal versions?
2. Buy digital copies on PSN to play on my PS3 - again, am I correct in assuming that these would be the 50Hz PAL versions if I bought these using my UK PSN account? Is their any way to set up a US account and buy them on US PSN instead? Would they accept a UK card or paypal?
3. Buy a PSP/Vita. - buying these on PSN would presumably have the same 50Hz issue as with my PS3. Most PSPs on ebay seem to have been cracked. Could these play emulated 60Hz versions?
4. Emulate on PC
5. Buy a Playstation Classic - haha, only joking (obviously)

I haven't dabbled with PSN or handhelds, but PS2 is a great way to play PS1 games if you prefer to play them the OG way and have a CRT TV or a good way to connect it to a modern TV. Do note that if your PS2 is PAL version that doesn't have a modchip you are stuck with PAL games. PAL games have lower framerate (60/30 NTSC vs 50/25 PAL) which can be annoying especially in fast paced games, but what is even worse some NTSC games were converted to PAL very lazily and were simply slowed down to 50hz, meaning its not just the framerate that is lower, the ENTIRE game runs 16.7% slower. NTSC versions of such games are WAY better and run as they were meant to run. Also not all games run on PS2, the fat version has less problems than the slim version. I think the list of games that do not work is pretty short though.

And If you would like to play the games with increased resolution and without wobbly textures caused by PS1 not supporting perspective correct texturing, then a modestly beefy PC with RetroArch + Beetle PSX HW core + Vulkan renderer is the king of the hill.

 

[Kazza]

I haven't dabbled with PSN or handhelds, but PS2 is a great way to play PS1 games if you prefer to play them the OG way and have a CRT TV or a good way to connect it to a modern TV. Do note that if your PS2 is PAL version that doesn't have a modchip you are stuck with PAL games. PAL games have lower framerate (60/30 NTSC vs 50/25 PAL) which can be annoying especially in fast paced games, but what is even worse some NTSC games were converted to PAL very lazily and were simply slowed down to 50hz, meaning its not just the framerate that is lower, the ENTIRE game runs 16.7% slower. NTSC versions of such games are WAY better and run as they were meant to run. Also not all games run on PS2, the fat version has less problems than the slim version. I think the list of games that do not work is pretty short though.

And If you would like to play the games with increased resolution and without wobbly textures caused by PS1 not supporting perspective correct texturing, then a modestly beefy PC with RetroArch + Beetle PSX HW core + Vulkan renderer is the king of the hill.

Thanks for the advice. The more I think about it, the more PC based emulation sounds like the way to go.

 

[ULTROS!]

Well... I got the system, will play it in 4 hours from now.

 

[Indelible]

Having almost half the games in 50hz kills this thing for me, I will stick with my PS3 to play PS1 games on my HDTV.

 

[TLZ]

Got it, played it. It's cool, but I'll wait for hacks now.

 

[Rekwest]

Now that is hacked why you think?

 

[CloudStrife_ca]

This, might be the PSone Classics saving grace (or atleast thats how I feel) apparently according to the article posted on Kotaku, Sony did not put in security measures for hackers looking to beef up the PSone's library. To me this only tells me that within a short amount of time you'll be able to put whatever you want on the console.

The big thing sounds like altering the menu to allow you to switch between games and add box art, adding games sounds like it hasn't been difficult with no security checks in place by Sony to check rom's added. Maybe depending on how the hack is eventually perfected, maybe something than can be done to make the emulation abit better too.

 

[JORMBO]

I was reading recently people have already started putting their own games on it. The process to load them isn’t too smooth yet, but should be more user friendly in the coming weeks.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I've run this through our frame-rate analyzer and it's worse than you could ever imagine. No review until maybe this weekend, though, at best. Waiting on my unit (received footage from elsewhere).

Glad I held off and canceled my pre-order 4 days before launch. I wanted it for the novelty mainly, since I do not even play the NES/SNES Classics, but $100 and these performance issues, I will just pick one up when/if they get discounted.

 

[jshackles]

Sometimes I think "I probably should have held on to my pre-order since it's hacked now" but then immediately think "Yeah, but the system is still crap, runs like crap, doesn't have analog sticks, no rumble, etc" so I think I'd rather play these games on something else. I'd love to play these games on my PS4, but since that's not possible I'll stick to the PC, or Switch, or Raspberry Pi, or PSVita, or...

 

[megatronium]

Got one for my ex. She'll love it. Also got one for me today - Amazon was selling for $25 off and throwing in a $25 gift card. Looks like the they're out of stock for that deal but getting it for $50 effectively was a no brainier with it being hacked. Hopefully a good retroarch port comes out for it.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-PlayStation-Classic-Console-Gray-3003868/659739661

40$ folks. how low can it go?!

 

[Retolo]

It's still 60 on the shelf tag in the Walmart store here in northern Los Angeles, but if you buy online for store pickup its 40. ? Sure. Why not.

 

[Spukc]

It's still 60 on the shelf tag in the Walmart store here in northern Los Angeles, but if you buy online for store pickup its 40. ? Sure. Why not.

grats you just ripped 2 twenty bills in half
I can recommend spending the 20 you saved on schneef. You will need it.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

Wow 2 years for a reply…

 

[Spukc]

lol didn't noticed it was a dead thread.
i was wondering how this dude even found one in walmart

now i know

 

[YCoCg]

The thing is, if you can get it cheap then it is a good deal thanks to Project Eris. Got mine loaded with 100 extra games, running on a better emulator than the one Sony used and replaced any PAL games with NTSC ones.

 

[German Hops]

lol didn't noticed it was a dead thread.
i was wondering how this dude even found one in walmart

now i know

That's my fault.
I was searching old threads and reacting to posts in here..

 

[Marcus Aurelius]

The thing is, if you can get it cheap then it is a good deal thanks to Project Eris. Got mine loaded with 100 extra games, running on a better emulator than the one Sony used and replaced any PAL games with NTSC ones.

This, it's the best out of all the retro mini consoles by far.

 

[Sephimoth]

Happened upon my box for this earlier, reminded me I need to get playing it some (hacked it to bits so it's good, obviously).

I googled the release date and almost vomited when I realized it's nearly 6 years old!
And the SNES classic 7 years.