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[Protagonist Jake]

Check it ladies and gents.

Pretty solid video. Goes into why I dislike/am afraid of* (choose your words carefully kids) the concept of streaming games, and proceeds to give me even more reason to hate it.

Increase Input Lag on Thread if Old.

 

[Two Words]

Do you hate streaming music/movies?

 

[Dragon]

Do you hate streaming music/movies?

Apples to Oranges.

Haven't watched the video (have to run to a meeting) but hope it addresses the concepts of being able to play these games on other hardware without emulators, etc.

 

[Protagonist Jake]

Do you hate streaming music/movies?

Of course not. Music and Movies arent interactive.

 

[gtj1092]

Don't get the hate tried it with FF13 and think its awesome for me at least. Price was good too for 30 days. The 4hr price is BS but its just there to make you spend a little more and do the weekly rental.

 

[Einbroch]

How can you hate something that doesn't effect you or anyone else in any way what-so-ever?

 

[silvermember]

How can you hate something that doesn't effect you or anyone else in any way what-so-ever?

Alex: What is Because gamers are petty and immature?

 

[twobear]

How can you hate something that doesn't effect you or anyone else in any way what-so-ever?

I was under the impression that the flavour of the week in gaming communities at the moment is extrapolating your way down a slippery slope from new distribution technologies to the videogameageddon.

 

[Dunan]

How can you hate something that doesn't effect you or anyone else in any way what-so-ever?

Because when and if it becomes the only possible way to play old stuff, it very much will affect the OP, and all of us who like to own our games.

 

[kick51]

9 straight minutes of sub-Fox news level scare mongering and logical fallacies. Not gonna say the guy who made the vid is actually that dumb, he's just trying to make a career of youtubing.

 

[Fireblend]

Because when and if it becomes the only possible way to play old stuff, it very much will affect the OP, and all of us who like to own our games.

That's one hell of a leap to make.

 

[Protagonist Jake]

How can you hate something that doesn't effect you or anyone else in any way what-so-ever?

Because if it gets popular it could. I guess a more accurate would be "scared of", but I didnt make the thread to debate over my word choose or the philosophy behind what I choose to "hate" and if its petty or not, yeah?

 

[driver116]

Will be a great way to access games

Spoiler

if your internet connection has latency <10ms

 

[Einbroch]

Because when and if it becomes the only possible way to play old stuff, it very much will affect the OP, and all of us who like to own our games.

You still have the option of playing the old content on the old console. That isn't being taken away from you. If the option is streaming or not at all, streaming is better because it exists.

If emulation is possible, then obviously that would be preferred, and actually Sony/MS/Valve, whatever, would rather have it this way so they don't have to waste a ton of bandwidth streaming a game to you for 10-60+ hours.

Makes no sense to me why someone would hate it.

 

[jimi_dini]

Do you hate streaming music/movies?

Yes. I hate that as well.

I want to actually OWN stuff. Streamed stuff is a rental at best and even if you bought "unlimited" streaming, they can still take it away from you or censor parts of it.

But right, streaming music/movies is "better" than streaming games. The former isn't interactive.

If emulation is possible, then obviously that would be preferred, and actually Sony/MS/Valve, whatever, would rather have it this way so they don't have to waste a ton of bandwidth streaming a game to you for 10-60+ hours.

YOU pay for that bandwidth. The company is able to rent you the game that way. Which is more profitable for the company. Also you can't sell your streamed rentals. Which is also a plus for companies.

 

[Dinjooh]

Because when and if it becomes the only possible way to play old stuff, it very much will affect the OP, and all of us who like to own our games.

That's one hell of a leap to make.

 

[Dunan]

You still have the option of playing the old content on the old console. That isn't being taken away from you. If the option is streaming or not at all, streaming is better because it exists.

Of course it's being taken away. Those disc readers in the PS2 and PS3 aren't going to be working in 20 years. Maybe not even in 5 years. This wouldn't be a big deal if backward compatibility were standard, but BC is clearly being dumped in favor of the subscription/service model, in which you pay a monthly fee for access to what you should have perpetual access to.

If streaming were an alternative to the traditional ownership model, I might feel differently, But it's clearly being positioned as something that will become the new standard.

 

[Burt]

Of course it's being taken away. Those disc readers in the PS2 and PS3 aren't going to be working in 20 years. Maybe not even in 5 years. This wouldn't be a big deal if backward compatibility were standard, but BC is clearly being dumped in favor of the subscription/service model, in which you pay a monthly fee for access to what you should have perpetual access to.

If streaming were an alternative to the traditional ownership model, I might feel differently, But it's clearly being positioned as something that will become the new standard.

So... every console manufacturer needs to include hardware-based BC for all of their consoles forever?

 

[Ocaso]

Apples to Oranges.

Haven't watched the video (have to run to a meeting) but hope it addresses the concepts of being able to play these games on other hardware without emulators, etc.

If you watched it now, you'll see that it's an apples to apples comparison because most of the straw man being attacked shares parts with streaming movies and audio. Despite the popularity of these services, lo and behold, we still have physical media releases for movies and music and will continue to have them for as long as there's an audience who buys them. The same will absolutely be true of games and fearing or hating an impressive step forward in game distribution because of this is the epitome of old man yelling at cloud (in a deliciously literal sense!)

 

[kick51]

If you watched it now, you'll see that it's an apples to apples comparison because most of the straw man being attacked shares parts with streaming movies and audio. Despite the popularity of these services, lo and behold, we still have physical media releases for movies and music and will continue to have them for as long as there's an audience who buys them. The same will absolutely be true of games and fearing or hating an impressive step forward in game distribution because of this is the epitome of old man yelling at cloud (in a deliciously literal sense!)

but in 2019 sony is gonna release Killzone 6 and it's gonna be streaming only because they're going to make an excuse about the graphics not being able to be done on the ps4 and then PS4s will overheat from the streaming process and blow up and kill you and your whole family! Thanks obama!

 

[nynt9]

Of course it's being taken away. Those disc readers in the PS2 and PS3 aren't going to be working in 20 years. Maybe not even in 5 years. This wouldn't be a big deal if backward compatibility were standard, but BC is clearly being dumped in favor of the subscription/service model, in which you pay a monthly fee for access to what you should have perpetual access to.

If streaming were an alternative to the traditional ownership model, I might feel differently, But it's clearly being positioned as something that will become the new standard.

BC isn't "clearly being dumped in favor of the subscription model". BC is expensive. Emulating old hardware is difficult. If the PS4 was BC with PS3 and PS2, it would cost about $700 or so, and it would bomb very hard.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Of course it's being taken away. Those disc readers in the PS2 and PS3 aren't going to be working in 20 years. Maybe not even in 5 years. This wouldn't be a big deal if backward compatibility were standard, but BC is clearly being dumped in favor of the subscription/service model, in which you pay a monthly fee for access to what you should have perpetual access to.

If streaming were an alternative to the traditional ownership model, I might feel differently, But it's clearly being positioned as something that will become the new standard.

So what if they don't work in 20 years? You just repair them. Even when that is no longer possible, we will still have emulation.

I don't really get what this guy is so afraid of. As long as enough people are willing to pay the price to actually own a copy of a game, there's no way streaming is going to completely replace digital and physical distribution. Just like, although DVD/BD sales are down thanks to Netflix, they're still profitable enough for the publishers to keep producing them, not to mention selling them digitally.

 

[No_Style]

Of course it's being taken away. Those disc readers in the PS2 and PS3 aren't going to be working in 20 years. Maybe not even in 5 years. This wouldn't be a big deal if backward compatibility were standard, but BC is clearly being dumped in favor of the subscription/service model, in which you pay a monthly fee for access to what you should have perpetual access to.

If streaming were an alternative to the traditional ownership model, I might feel differently, But it's clearly being positioned as something that will become the new standard.

The same could be said about CD, VHS, cassette tape and any other medium that uses physical readers and a small but dedicated market continues to keep old hardware running and for the rest of us who don't mind rental model, there's streaming.

 

[Dunan]

So... every console manufacturer needs to include hardware-based BC for all of their consoles forever?

Nobody said anything about hardware-based BC. Emulation is just fine; I've bought several PS1 classics for my Vita and, despite not being able to sell them as I could with physical media, can still rest assured that I can play them any time I get the urge. I'd happily pay more for hardware BC, though -- and the parts get cheaper over time.

Streaming means that if you stop paying your monthly fee, you lose your content. If the provider decides to stop offering the content, too bad, you can never see it again. (Even no-longer-available PSN titles don't stop working if they're pulled from the store.) You're completely at the provider's mercy with streaming. I like to own things and not have to interact with a provider or pay them a fee beyond the point of sale.

 

[K.Sabot]

It'd be fuckin sick if we still had physical media in the future.

We'd go back to carts that are actually mini SSD (or future tech) drives.

 

[BadWolf]

There is nowhere to rent around me so this will be great for finishing games on the cheap. Most games are worth playing only once anyway.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It's great to have this as an option. I'm still going to be buying games to play locally though.

 

[BadWolf]

Of course it's being taken away. Those disc readers in the PS2 and PS3 aren't going to be working in 20 years. Maybe not even in 5 years. This wouldn't be a big deal if backward compatibility were standard, but BC is clearly being dumped in favor of the subscription/service model, in which you pay a monthly fee for access to what you should have perpetual access to.

If streaming were an alternative to the traditional ownership model, I might feel differently, But it's clearly being positioned as something that will become the new standard.

You are only thinking in terms of PS4.

Sony is thinking in terms of PS3, PS4, PSVita, PSVita TV, standalone TVs etc. All of these will be able to use the PS Now service.

They are thinking big basically.

 

[Concept17]

Of course it's being taken away. Those disc readers in the PS2 and PS3 aren't going to be working in 20 years. Maybe not even in 5 years. This wouldn't be a big deal if backward compatibility were standard, but BC is clearly being dumped in favor of the subscription/service model, in which you pay a monthly fee for access to what you should have perpetual access to.

If streaming were an alternative to the traditional ownership model, I might feel differently, But it's clearly being positioned as something that will become the new standard.

So this is about BC?

BC is dumped because it costs more to produce that additional hardware. Offering all those titles on a new platform is much, much more cost effective. They also have new ways of not only selling more copies of software that would otherwise just sit around, but can see how popular certain old franchises are by what is selling and what isn't.

Additionally they can promote all these older games over time, and re-introduce people to some great games they may have missed or were too young to play. This is only a good thing.

 

[kaching]

If the primary concern is the ability to retain ownership, is there at least a single good example of any major market (digital or otherwise) converting over from purchase to rental/subscription only? Ironically, the only thing I can think of is the early days of videogames in the arcades only, but we moved away from that and I very much doubt we're ever going to go back to just that.

 

[jimi_dini]

Offering all those titles again on a new platform is much, much more cost effective profitable.

fixed

And offering all those titles as a streaming rental is even more profitable. Add 1+1 together and there you go. That simply seems to be Sony's plan. Because it's even more profitable. They fucked up backward compatibility on PS3, because they wanted to cut costs even at release (EU here) and on PS4 they didn't give a shit anymore.

The whole argument is silly. There was an article about the hardware required in PS3 for PS2 hardware backward compatibility. It was extremely cheap.

but can see how popular certain old franchises are by what is selling and what isn't.

Sony already saw when people played a certain PS2 or PS1 game on PS3. They were also able to sell PS1+PS2 games digitally on PS3 as well. Through emulation. Digital is still bad, even more so when the company doesn't even offer backward compatibility for emulated titles, but at least it's not the shitfest that is streaming. Anyone got an explanation, why PS4 doesn't run Sony's already existing PS1 (and game specific PS2) software emulator?

 

[Frolow]

Great video. Wish companies actually got a shit about the archival of their content, especially with the shift towards online content being in every game.

 

[Dunan]

So this is about BC?

It's not about BC. It's about the difference between ownership and rental.

 

[FriedConsole]

I found my experience with PS Now to be surprisingly good. After a while of playing Jimmy Johnson's Kart Racer I forgot I was streaming. Granted I have good internet in a major city and was playing over a wired connection. I would buy this if my life allowed me to actually complete games in a week.

The pricing structure isn't good. I understand why there isn't a "forever" option but that is what I would buy a PS3 game for with $10.

9 straight minutes of sub-Fox news level scare mongering and logical fallacies. Not gonna say the guy who made the vid is actually that dumb, he's just trying to make a career of youtubing.

Yeah especially at the end where they took the choice quotes from reviewer's thoughts. If you actually watch the review videos he cropped from they say it isn't that bad.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Do you hate streaming music/movies?

One, it's cheaper and sub based for the most part. Two, the worst you get is minor audio sync issues which can happen even with the physical media. In games, streaming can mean quite a bit of input lag which kills player momentum.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Don't even need to dignify issues like image quality,no longer owning your games (even less so than with digital games) and all the ways the shitty big corporations will abuse this.

The input lag alone, by itself, should be enough for ANYONE who gives even the tiniest shadow of a shit about how games play and how they are designed to denounce the concept of game streaming completely.

A pre emptive fuck you to everyone who buys a game on PSNOW or whatever other streaming service for ruining gaming for everyone in x years.

 

[madmackem]

Don't like it don't use it?.

 

[googleplex]

Stupid ridiculous video.

 

[punkmaggit]

Because when and if it becomes the only possible way to play old stuff, it very much will affect the OP, and all of us who like to own our games.

Can't you go buy a cheap copy of FFXIII for like $10?

 

[plainr_]

Seems to me like he's afraid of this technology taking over the traditional distribution of games. Even as a huge supporter of the service, I don't think that will ever happen. It's another form for renting, that's about it.

 

[Enectic]

Don't even need to dignify issues like image quality,no longer owning your games (even less so than with digital games) and all the ways the shitty big corporations will abuse this.

The input lag alone, by itself, should be enough for ANYONE who gives even the tiniest shadow of a shit about how games play and how they are designed to denounce the concept of game streaming completely.

A pre emptive fuck you to everyone who buys a game on PSNOW or whatever other streaming service for ruining gaming for everyone in x years.

Maybe everyone should of denounced online gaming in the early days (14.4 Kbps or even baud modems...before my time though) because of high ping times/lag. Maybe everyone should of denounced streaming media in the early days because of low resolution/compression/buffering. My point is any emerging technology isn't going to be a "home run" right out of the gate. As far as how it works today...given the right conditions...streaming gaming works extremely well. PS Now has worked great for me and I've put in over 1,200 hours of game time on OnLive. I've been gaming since the Atari 2600 days and I'm completely fine with streaming game. Will it ever become the "de facto" medium? I don't think so...not for a long time at least but I do think it will make an excellent addition to the current physical media and digital distribution options we have today.

 

[pixlexic]

Right now it isn't good IMO . But it will only get better in time.

 

[OmegaFax]

How well were Nintendo Satellaview broadcasts preserved?

 

[Thrakier]

Do you hate streaming music/movies?

Probably the most epic fail in a first post answer ever and just a further sign of how casual GAF is at this point.

 

[SerTapTap]

Because when and if it becomes the only possible way to play old stuff, it very much will affect the OP, and all of us who like to own our games.

I had no idea Sony was going to break into my house, shoot my PC and stab my PS4 while I watch.

 

[Metallix87]

Stupid ridiculous video.

 

[ghst]

anyone who considers a (non-local) streaming service "good enough" officially revokes their right to criticise the image quality, framerates, input issues or the anti consumer nature of any other platform.

it trades convenience for every other facet which determines the quality of a game's experience.

 

[Metallix87]

The video on hand: I agree.

I've said for quite some time now that Sony is less interested in gaming as it is now than you'd think. They want to turn games into a service, and to do so as quickly as possible. That's the reason for online multiplayer being locked behind the PS Plus paywall. It's not copying Microsoft, it's because they want you to get used to having the "free" games tied to the service. They want you hooked on to the PS Plus and PS Now ecosystems. They want this to be the standard for gaming as a whole, and they're going to use this generation to push it. I firmly expect Sony to make streaming & Plus the mandatory / primary ways to buy and play games on the PS5. It makes too much sense not to do it.

Also, don't expect them to be alone. We're already seeing EA making strides into turning their game business into a service oriented business. Microsoft will almost assuredly follow suit within the next five years.

Games as a service, and not a product, is here, and from what I've seen online, people are all-too-happy to jump in.

 

[Thrakier]

The video on hand: I agree.

I've said for quite some time now that Sony is less interested in gaming as it is now than you'd think. They want to turn games into a service, and to do so as quickly as possible. That's the reason for online multiplayer being locked behind the PS Plus paywall. It's not copying Microsoft, it's because they want you to get used to having the "free" games tied to the service. They want you hooked on to the PS Plus and PS Now ecosystems. They want this to be the standard for gaming as a whole, and they're going to use this generation to push it. I firmly expect Sony to make streaming & Plus the mandatory / primary ways to buy and play games on the PS5. It makes too much sense not to do it.

Also, don't expect them to be alone. We're already seeing EA making strides into turning their game business into a service oriented business. Microsoft will almost assuredly follow suit within the next five years.

Games as a service, and not a product, is here, and from what I've seen online, people are all-too-happy to jump in.

I would be so too, but the technical issues are way to severe. I'm super happy how it works with movies and music though.

 

[Metallix87]

I would be so too, but the technical issues are way to severe. I'm super happy how it works with movies and music though.

I stream movies, but only because it's nice for vacations and such. I primarily have my BDs for movie watching.

I've actually never streamed music, but one of these days, I'll try Amazon's.