Unspeakable Evil
Member
Team rocket and Charizard screwed him. Feels bad man.
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Pokémon master wannabe Ash Ketchum is a loser
- Thread starter TheVampire
- Start date
Black 2 and White 2 Challenge Mode's Champion has a team of Lv 81s with her highest level being 83. The normal mode has a trainer at the end of a deep forest or building with a team of 3 level 80s.
You don't even notice what May's hair looks like while watching the episodes. It looks normal with the bandana.
Hidden One
Member
Ash was in his prime during Sinnoh...That team was probably his best team since the original.
Red's Pikachu is level 88 in HeartGold/SoulSilver.
During the league in Sinnoh he made some really nice switches in terms of pokemon except when he got to Darkrai's trainer. Torkoal? Gible? Heracross was a fantastic check to Darkrai because of sleep talk and megahorn ( I wont even get into how hardy that Darkrai is to take a Mega Horn to the face and live).
I do hate to pull the Charizard card but if there was anytime to drag his butt out it was then.
iLLmaticV3
Member
The anime became painful to watch after his 3rd Pokemon League defeat. It's ridiculous how retarded Ash remains to be portrayed.
Ah okay, I haven't played BW2 yet.
Oh, nevermind.
Here's Red's Team according to Serebii, then:
Pikachu lv88, Venusaur, Charizard, Blastoise lv84, Lapras lv80 and Snorlax lv82.
The toughest trainers in the game really should have their pokemon all fully leveled up to 100, even if it takes a couple of battles to get there. I hope X and Y do this.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I remember after a ton of fights with the Sinnoh E4 and Cynthia, Barry's Pokemon levels could get really really high, I just can't remember how high to be exact.
Fun fact: the anime characters were initially planned to grow up when the show was to be 52 episodes long. The first movie was likely to be the series' epilogue. Here's a trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXJrckR66lk
It looks like the movie's conclusion -- very ambiguous.
I get so sentimental over the first Pokémon series. Shudo's writing made the show incredibly worth watching. It was essentially a mixture of Pokémon elements on an everyday story framework. As a kids' show, it was a magical experience to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXJrckR66lk
It looks like the movie's conclusion -- very ambiguous.
I get so sentimental over the first Pokémon series. Shudo's writing made the show incredibly worth watching. It was essentially a mixture of Pokémon elements on an everyday story framework. As a kids' show, it was a magical experience to me.
For what it's worth, her popularity didn't at all actually wane. The whirl cup, a tournament-esque three episode arc that Misty played a huge part in around the middle/end of Johto and one of the few times where there was an actual semblance of overarching plot in the region, spiked up the ratings and remains the highest rated episodes since then to this day. Same with the episode where she left, which would presumably be the last time any fans of her's would get to see her, also spiked up the ratings in a way that May or Dawn leaving didn't.
To say that she wasn't/isn't the most popular girl to travel with him is some pretty amusing revisionist history from the person you're quoting.
zeopower6
Member
It still looks ridiculous. I don't get why after Misty, they went wild with the female hair design. Iris' is probably the weirdest while Dawn's was a only a little odd since it looked like she had sideburns coming out of her sideburns.
They MADE her into a placeholder character. Unfortunately, at the time of Misty's journey with Ash, they didn't have newfangled things like the Pokemon Contests to keep the character from just traveling with him because he destroyed her bike. Even Iris' journey is closer to Misty's in a way since she's not really participating in much, but she wants to become a Dragon Master at least. Misty got the short end of the stick because the writer(s) were too lazy to do anything with her... same goes for Brock. He was a lady-loving nurturer-type... and that was about it for his stint on the show.
Basically, that person really hates Misty. :/ Looking at the actual ratings, it looks like after Misty left, the show never recovered.
the truth!
plus, Dawns hat is amazing, plus her adorable yellow hair clips.
Dawn is best.
The writers probably placed the blame on the original trio for how poorly received the Johto seasons were. That's why they also gave up on Brock too. Even though Brock stayed for two more gens, he was almost entirely background material.
Shudo admitted to not caring for Misty much, but I don't think any of the writers who did the show either before or after he left cared either.
The writers quite literally turned the series against Misty in virtually every way possible. No other female lead, not even Iris, was purposely sabotaged the way Misty was.
Don't get me started on how Misty never got to star in a movie, when even Max was given a role in a movie. They even made a blatant water themed pokemon movie with Manaphy that was all about water pokemon after she left, and she didn't get to appear at all.
I think 60 something was the highest. Then again, it's been a while since I played Platinum so I might be wrong.
Edit: I just checked Serebii, it's 85 with your rival's main Pokemon.
sprucebringsteen
Banned
it's sad to see what's become of ash, more so the show itself. it was once something great, but now it's just a money making scheme, letting loose more new pokemon and games as every 5 generations enters the scene, and keeping ash young and having little reference to his past travels as possible for the new kids to get hooked.
zeopower6
Member
If you've actually been watching, they do refer to his past travels every so often. There's no use in referring to them all the time, but once in a while he goes back and gets his old Pokemon.
And it was ALWAYS a money making scheme... :x
If you're talking about Misty just being in a movie then she's been in the first 5 (from the first up to Heroes). If you're talking about her having a large role than...eh...Misty had a somewhat important role in the 2000 movie.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Actually Mewtwo was 80 iirc, and Arceus never went below 100.
With that said, Pikachu is probably his weakest mon in his team despite the level.
Triple Da G.O.D!
Member
Didn't smash Misty, May or Dawn.
Dude's a super failure.
Dude's a super failure.
Hero of Legend
Member
Here's what Ash's team should be from his stash:
Charizard
Infernape (hard pick if just one fire-type, Blaze Infernape could likely kill Charizard)
Noctowl
Bulbasaur (honestly over Torterra and Sceptile, guy's hacked good as others said, and a badass)
Tauros (you can't go wrong with this guy, hard pick over Snorlax)
Kingler (edges over Squirtle, Squirtle may be a badass, but I think even Bulbasaur has superiority, I think Bulbasaur has had a more consistent win streak, hard to remember obviously)
Kingler is without a doubt the most underused Pokemon, fucking cracked a Cloyster's shell, that's legendary.
And Pikachu if you get rid of Charizard or Infernape. Ash would pick him obviously first anyway...
None of his Gen 3 folks really stand out, except Sceptile. Infernape was the star in the 4th, clearly he had the most good ones first gen. Second had really good ones like Noctowl and Heracross. Also shocking how none of the starters reached their final forms, hell it took a record making billion episodes for Cyndaquil to evolve.
For BW, Krookodile is the best one, but I also believe Snivy if she ever became a Serperior would own so hard, she's already a badass as it is.
Charizard
Infernape (hard pick if just one fire-type, Blaze Infernape could likely kill Charizard)
Noctowl
Bulbasaur (honestly over Torterra and Sceptile, guy's hacked good as others said, and a badass)
Tauros (you can't go wrong with this guy, hard pick over Snorlax)
Kingler (edges over Squirtle, Squirtle may be a badass, but I think even Bulbasaur has superiority, I think Bulbasaur has had a more consistent win streak, hard to remember obviously)
Kingler is without a doubt the most underused Pokemon, fucking cracked a Cloyster's shell, that's legendary.
And Pikachu if you get rid of Charizard or Infernape. Ash would pick him obviously first anyway...
None of his Gen 3 folks really stand out, except Sceptile. Infernape was the star in the 4th, clearly he had the most good ones first gen. Second had really good ones like Noctowl and Heracross. Also shocking how none of the starters reached their final forms, hell it took a record making billion episodes for Cyndaquil to evolve.
For BW, Krookodile is the best one, but I also believe Snivy if she ever became a Serperior would own so hard, she's already a badass as it is.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Wait all the other characters have aged but Ash is still 10?
Hero of Legend
Member
More or less a joke since Ash is the only one to have ever really had an age mention sans the other leads.
And obviously because Ash was called a 10 year old in the first episode of BW...
But the logic doesn't add up:
- Misty did not come back to the show after she was replaced. If there really was a demand for Misty or if the show couldn't succeed without her, she would have returned as soon as Hoenn ended. Instead she stays gone for the entire duration of the anime.
- The writers don't rely on Misty cameos at all. As said, she only appeared in 2 measly Hoenn episodes, another 2 at Pallet where she was pretty much "Tracey 2.0" and a couple of specials that didn't even air on the main timeslot of the anime even in Japan. And after that, she never appears again. They purposely chose not to give her an appearnace over the 200 ep span of DP.
- The writers had to have made the decision not to revive Misty sometime back when we were in mid-Hoenn, because the arcs are scripted nearly a year in advance. By then they had to have been planning late Hoenn and the Battle Frontier arc, so they already knew they were keeping May instead of Misty. And then when DP was being planned, I doubt Misty was ever considered. They wouldn't even show her in the last AG episode.
So aside from more people watching the anime in the early seasons, its not really Misty herself, it was the newness of the show or the fad of pokemon back then. Misty just happened to be in those episodes.
The Orange Islands had almost as high ratings as Kanto, yet how many people truly cared about Tracey? Very few.
AnkiRendan
Member
Apparently, all of the Pokemon he used in that match had experience against legendary Pokemon. I'm not sure about Gible, though. Maybe he just felt a Dragon type would be useful.
Team rocket and Charizard screwed him. Feels bad man.
Actually Ash screwed himself over by goofing and not taking the time to train himself or his Pokémon, which was one of the reason why Charizard disobey him. In fact had he not lost then he would have lost later down the line as his luck would have finally ran out.
It also didn't help that 4 of the Kanto badges was just given to Ash rather than earning the badge.
It was because Gible knew rock smash, which was a fighting move and would have been super effective against Darkrai.
Whoa wait. Opinions and all but Noctowl,Kingler and Bulbasaur? I honestly feel like Swellow,Corphish and Sceptile edge out those three.
Swellow because it had more wins under it's belt ( once it evolved mind you) and it seemed to be the tankest of his birds during AG.
Corphish was pretty strong and while Kingler has that one impressive battle Corphish has more experince ( I might throw Buizel above him in terms of battle experince tho.)
Sceptile and Bulbasaur are indeed his most powerful grass types but I tend to lean to Sceptile cause Ash seems to love speed when he battles.
A large amount of older fans wanting Misty to return or having her as their favorite heroine doesn't automatically make her likely to come back, since the objective for the show is still mainly to fleece parents of their money to purchase merchandise for their children. You could make the argument you're attempting to make for literally any character in the show outside of Ash, Pikachu and maybe Team Rocket, although the latter haven't been in every Best Wishes episode and were on the chopping block in Johto from Shudo's own accounts. Every character sans Ash and Pikachu are placeholders for the next on this show, I'm baffled that you'd think this moniker only applies to one of the most popular characters.
We've already went through this, she got four Chronicle episodes to herself, four return episodes, and appeared in the hour long Mastermind special. That's nearly eleven episodes worth of screentime after leaving the main cast, compared to Dawn's nine (only one of which had her as the main character) and May's four, and that's not including the two cameos during the Hoenn league and having her in a flashback more than ten years after departing from the show, nor alluding to her with the fishing lure during the Diamond and Pearl series.
Did you ignore the part where it displayed that the ratings rose from the episodes preceding the Misty-centric ones? Ash's league and finale with his main rival concluded the episode before Misty left, yet still paled in comparison in the number of people watching, while the DP Grand Festival and Dawn's finale were both lower than the Sinnoh league and the Brock-centric episode before it, same for the final AG Grand Festival and Ash's final frontier battle. With the Whirl Cup, it was the highest rated episode since the Morty gym battle eight months back, and as I mentioned is the highest rated episode since then, twelve years later.
And the fad wore off during the tail-end of the second generation, with Crystal selling around the same amount as Emerald, Platinum and B2W2, yet mid to late Johto was still pulling in a far more numerous audience than pretty much any point in any saga afterwards.
Tracey appeared for some thirty-five odd episodes, hardly giving anybody time to attach to his character, while Misty had a huge presence in the show since the very first episode to the second to last in the original series; 273 episodes, five movies, and the Mewtwo special; all while an incredibly large amount of people were tuning in to see the group's next exploits. The fact that you even think they're at all comparable just shows how bright of a torch you have to burn for her.
As well, you have yet to provide me any proof that even remotely alludes to May or Dawn being more popular than Misty, while I've given you a chart that clearly indicates the ratings dropping far below anything in the original series soon after the novelty of the new cast members wore off. All you've been doing is coasting off of misquoting or just completely fabricating things that Shudo said and expecting people not to actually check the blog to fact check what you've been claiming. And then to say that the writing cast had some sort of grudge against a fictional character who's personality and attributes they created, so they intentionally sabotaged mid-Johto out of spite? You do realize this is a children's show we're speaking of, right?
Brock didn't have to stay after Johto either yet he was kept for seemingly no reason at all. Even if May or Dawn were still introduced, Misty could have stayed on the sidelines. Maybe Misty would have been the "coach" to May or Dawn similar to Brock to Ash...but instead they opted to axe her entirely.
In fact Misty could have lasted up until Best Wishes theoretically for the same reasons Brock did. Both May and Dawn would have still likely come to advertise Contests, but the writers decided Misty had no purpose.
And you miss my point, if Misty's departure had caused "backlash" the writers could have never kept her off the show past Hoenn. She would have returned to the cast for Battle Frontier and stayed on for DP at least.
This I don't agree with. They wasted Chronicle episodes on crappy characters nobody cared for like Richie and Casey. And then these characters faded away into oblivion. Are you telling me those horrid rivals got specials because they were popular? Hell no, its just that the writers were giving screentime to all pre-AG characters at the time.
More popular rivals like Drew, Harley and Paul didn't get anything after they left, do you think they're unpopular? Of course not.
How do you know there weren't other factors by then? This was in late Johto after the majority of the original fandom started drifting from the anime. How did these people know Misty was getting a tournament arc? The Whirl Cup may have high ratings because it was viewed as a major tournament at the time, and it was taking forever to reach the league.
Also in regards to this, I've seen several Japanese character polls where Misty is the least popular female lead over there with Dawn placing #1 and May at #2.I assume its because of the girly otaku appeal. As much as I don't like Piplup, I know its the most popular pokemon over there during the DP era other than Pikachu. The Japanese have different tastes than we do.
Dogasu said it best, more people were watching TV back then. This is in the pre-internet, pre-download, pre Iphone, Ipad days. Back then you HAD to watch an episode on TV or you were out of luck until reruns.
DP is considered one of the best written arcs of the anime, yet its ratings are the second lowest only above BW. Its obvious "good writing" has no effect on ratings. Also I love how you ignore the early AG episodes had higher ratings than late Johto according to that site.
But not everyone saw all those episodes. Half the original fandom dropped the show shortly after Charizard left in early Johto. Many people did not even know Misty was gone until we were in mid-Hoenn, simply because they stopped during Johto and never got up till the episode she left. I remember we were in 2004/2005 and people were posting things like "What happened to Misty?" after nearly 100 Hoenn episodes have aired already. A lot of people never even knew she left until well after AG was airing.
Also in terms of the U.S, the 3rd, 4th and 5th movies completely bombed in theaters....so I think that says enough.
I've mentioned above I've seen character polls. Dawn and Piplup were far more popular in Japan than the rest of the world, while in the US it seems a lot of people were rather lukewarm to the character.
Also Misty hasn't been around now in 10 years, entire generations of little kids grew up with AG or DP as their first sagas, so they will have no attachment to Misty even if they go back and watch the older episodes at some point.
zeopower6
Member
You say these things and you completely disregard all the people who want Misty to be brought back... o_o I bet Misty will get a few more flashbacks in XY too. Even though it doesn't really count as the 'anime', Misty/Kasumi gets voted as the favorite gym leader in popularity polls and in a world tournament poll about who people wanted to battle, behind Red and Lance... Misty was 3rd!
I mean come on now, Misty is popular. End of story.
Games aren't the anime. Same thing with the manga, in that May and Sapphire are totally different. No reason to compare them.
Also this was the poll I was talking about earlier:
http://anime.biglobe.ne.jp/userranking/chara/41082/
Dawn got ranked first, then May, then Iris, then Misty, then other girls of the series like Cynthia or recurring characters.
I'm not arguing that Misty isn't popular of course. I'm arguing that she's no more popular than the other girls, and that's why the writers didn't revive her character.
astronautcowboy
Member
Ash has probably met every single Pokémon there is, including the legendaries.
He's a Master in his own way.
He's a Master in his own way.
Did not expect this Misty debate, but I'm glad since she's my favorite trainer in the anime and games. Anyone siding with Misty's return is okay in my book. Really hate how the writers got rid of her fiery attitude. All the other sidekicks since have been the same old boring pushovers. They could have easily gave her something to do in the storyline.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Her fiery attitude ran out of fuel when they wrote her in a corner though. Usually her character archetype only lasts for about an arc.
The Silver
Member
It always bothered the hell out of me that Bulbasaur and Squirtle never evolved, what the hell made Charmander so special?
WrenchNinja
Member
That's pretty sad.
I don't really care how often he does it, the fact he does it at all is dumb. I understand why they do it, the same goes for the filler, still doesn't make it any good.
Considering that I was Red, I had 240 filled out boxes.Still more than Red have
I hate the anime but man so much wrong facts spewed about it!
And there's so much circlejerking on the manga despite being bland and contrived.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
So how would you introduce a Pokemon to newcomers without breaking the pacing of the show to a halt?
You're not Red in the games that you fight him or in the manga though.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Off the top of my head, he hasn't seen Porygon 2/Z.
Ash is awesome for experiencing the world of Pokemon though.
GameFreak has to be planning a 3DS remake right?
right?
WrenchNinja
Member
So as not to treat Ash like an idiot? If it's a Pokemon Ash has seen before and the companion hasn't, let him do the explaining.
So what? What does that have to do with comparing number of captured Pokemon? Red is the protagonist of the original games, he is the player, he most assuredly caught more Pokemon than Ash.
Because they weren't going to have two females on the cast to one male in a Shonen anime; it would alienate the largest percentage of the audience the show has, which is why the leading females have always been considered the most expendable and have been expended at the end of each series. You can't simplify it is such silly terms, bringing her back would've made less room for new characters to advertise current games.
Where did I make the argument that characters that don't get specials aren't popular? I said that Misty having four episodes focused on her was predominately done because she was an incredibly popular character that people would be interested to see have her story continued, and it showed by the ratings for the chronicle episodes being high considering their irregular airing compared to typical episodes. And Drew, Harley and Paul were rivals just like Richie and Casey, stop putting them on some special, unwarranted plateau of popularity if you're not willing to extend that to other characters that fill the same role and had higher ratings for their time.
So a few polls of probably dubious nature and aimed at a far more narrow audience than the sum of everybody who holds an opinion about a character are somehow a better indicator of popularity than the ratings of episodes that actually focus on said characters? You're going to get stretchmarks from all of this reaching, and if I had even the most remote of proving you wrong, I doubt it would take me more than a few minutes to find a different poll that would read the exact opposite. And Axew, Oshawott and Charizard are popular in a similar regard, that doesn't always extend to either the characters that own them or the anime ratings, as clearly indicated by this recent Best Wishes arc.
The series has been statistically tracking worse in comparison to other programming the longer it has went on after the original series, with maybe a spike at a few select points during Diamond and Pearl, and left the top ten pretty recently with Da. People didn't suddenly stop watching television in general during the middle of AG, just like they didn't during mid-Johto or towards the end of DP; interest started to wane until the upcoming series began, then it would spike. Note that the first episode of DP and the first episode of BW are both rated the same, and neither are dramatically lower than the first OS or AG episode. And again, you're ignoring the fact that I've also been comparing episodes directly with other episodes from their respective series, not just cross generation.
As cliche as it's become to say in this thread, I really don't care about the anime all that much and catch most of it nowadays in passing through my interest in the games. Misty, however, was fucking cool and remains the only main character that I found relatable. Her sisters always put her down, so she had that anger complex that wasn't cooled until Togepi and becoming friends with Ash in general.
They made the show considerably less shonen with the contests and May and Dawn's larger roles. Shudo said directly in his blog why Misty was dropped, she was the "least justified" main character as he put it. Basically its the nice way of saying, "I didn't care for this character."
Most of Misty's specials happened at the very beginning of AG when she just left. The only one that came in late Hoenn was the one with Luvdisc. At that point she had only been gone a few months.
I've been in the Pokemon fandom since 2002, which was around the time Misty left and AG began. I've been in the fandom for over a decade and its rather easy to see what the general concensus was on all the major Pokemon forums, and anime forums, and videogame forums.
The only people who clung to Misty at the time were the 12-13 year old girls who identified with her, (back in 2002 they were around that age) obsessive Pokeshippers, or just people who couldn't bear the thought that the anime was going on without their precious Misty in it. Everyone else didn't care.
And there's no doubt in my mind May's popularity and the inittial success of the Contests is what stole a large chunk of the Misty fanbase. Many people only liked Misty because she was the only main girl at the time and we had no other choice. May's fanbase is comprised of mostly original Kanto/Orange fans who got bored of the show in Johto and gave it another chance in Hoenn. That's why May's fanbase took over, while Dawn and Iris didn't have that extra boost.
Of course not, because Misty isn't there. Misty's relatable for those reasons, yet May's and Dawn's various confidence struggles weren't?
The mere fact that misty didn't develop much in the series past Orange Islands shows how little story material the writers had for her. They even toned down her crush on Ash when they realized they weren't going to do anything with it.