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[Soul_Pie]

The prices on the Aus store are utter garbage, so all the "sales" memes are totally lost on me. Valve acted petulantly when called out for their misleading practices over here and basically said we'll take our ball and go home. Definitely a reflection of what they're like as a company.

Even if a company has a decent product it doesn't give them carte blanche to do as they please. It is really unsettling that these big corporations seem to have an army of supporters to come leaping to their defense at every turn, as if they need it. This doesn't just apply to Valve, incidentally. It's almost like certain people are living vicariously through the success of their favourite company. Many don't seem to be able to see through the stage managed PR and marketing and separate it from a company's actual behaviour, and that is really worrying. This makes discourse really difficult and ultimately hurts consumers when people are misguidedly loyal to companies that are entirely undeserving.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Because some fanboys don't realize it unless the truth is pointed out?

more like pointing out hypocrisy, but at that point it's pointless

 

[Weevilone]

Issue is that Steam isnt the amazon of gaming, amazon is a open market place.

Valve has such a weird community focus, its amazing they are so adored.

Amazon isn't what you think it is either. They'll close your account in a second if it suits them. It's no "open marketplace".

 

[Jigorath]

So does that mean Valve isn't coming to my birthday party?

 

[Phrozenflame500]

So tl;dr

- you are all brainwashed
- Valve is a business with malicious intent from the outset forcing people to use Steam to play HL2
- did you know they take 30% of all game sales?
- Valve not a nice guy like the internet claims
- Valve workshop creators now make less money than they used to
- they make too much money and hide how much they make!
- disgruntled employees have made claims about unfair treatment and prejudice
- refund policy came too late and is garbage
- they have a bad attitude with regards to regional consumer policies
- they make too much money and hide how much they make!
- wake up people

I will go back to the bastions of gaming, Sony/Nintendo/MS where all of these things are handled better.

Yup. For a hitpiece this is really, really weak. I'm all for shitting on Steam, but come on. I guess that's Polygon for you.

 

[SirPinkyNose]

Steam itself is not a monopoly. There are other stores like GOG, Origin, Uplay, Windows store to compete with it. The reason it feels like a monopoly is because the users vastly prefer it over other competitions.
And comparing Steam to Uber is borderline retarded. Uber operates on it's own, ignoring the existing industry. Steam operates based on partnership with other developers and publishers.

 

[biggersmaller]

Unhealthy for gaming...you fucking ingrates. Look at you.

The company that since 1998 has supported enthusiast devs and parlayed one of the greatest games of all time into a service that provides near endless gaming for the buck and offers a no-questions-asked refund if asked within 14 days? So because it's a for-profit and they've made a few mistakes over 20 years Valve is worth this hit job?

If it wasn't for Valve, there's a good chance a decentralized market of publisher-specific services would've fucked the PC market over so bad it would be a shell of what it is today. BUT HEY! At least we would have our principals.

Seriously, nothing is stopping anyone from making something better.

 

[BstnRich]

Turn on Valve and drain them!

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Turn on Valve and drain them!

giggidy

 

[PFD]

The alternatives are Origin, Microsoft and Uplay.

Steam is the best Monopoly we could wish for given the other actors.

Origin is pretty damn good from what I've seen. No complaints

 

[Mrbob]

Thank goodness for these hot takes from Polygon.

 

[ScientificPizza]

The alternatives are Origin, Microsoft and Uplay.

Steam is the best Monopoly we could wish for given the other actors.

forgetting about that good good gog galaxy so

 

[Lister]

Unhealthy for gaming...you fucking ingrates. Look at you.

The company that since 1998 has supported enthusiast devs and parlayed one of the greatest games of all time into a service that provides near endless gaming for the buck and offers a no-questions-asked refund if asked within 14 days? So because it's a for-profit and they've made a few mistakes over 20 years Valve is worth this hit job?

If it wasn't for Valve, there's a good chance a decentralized market of publisher-specific services would've fucked the PC market over so bad it would be a shell of what it is today. BUT HEY! At least we would have our principals.

Seriously, nothing is stopping anyone from making something better.

Well said.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Yea Valve saw the money and then saw more money and now they ain't the Valve they used to be.

Happens with all companies. Greed sets in.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Origin is pretty damn good from what I've seen. No complaints

We really need to end the "everything but Steam and maybe GOG is bad" meme. The other clients are pretty much completely serviceable from a service and UI standpoint and the only thing Steam has on them at this point is selection.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Issue is that Steam isnt the amazon of gaming, amazon is a open market place.

Is Steam not?

We really need to end the "everything but Steam and maybe GOG is bad" meme. The other clients are pretty much completely serviceable from a service and UI standpoint and the only thing Steam has on them at this point is selection.

Is it possible some people disagree and that it's not a meme but rather people's actual opinions about the services?

 

[Angelus Errare]

No corporation is your friend.

Especially publicly traded ones, yet here we (America) are.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Is it possible some people disagree and that it's not a meme but rather people's actual opinions about the services?

Oh I'm sure a lot of people disagree, but a lot of the time it feels that most of the hate towards Origin/uPlay/etc. is less because they're bad services and more because they remove the ability to easily consolidate your entire library on steam. And/or outdated information from when the services were just launched.

 

[family_guy]

Seriously, nothing is stopping anyone from making something better.

There isn't but the question is would most people give something better the time of day? It's like when Mac owners say how terrible Windows is and their reference point is Windows XP or older. Or when iPhone owners don't care about better features Android has had for years until Apple decides its matters. They aren't leaving iPhone because they are used to it and have to have that iMessage. People are mostly set in their ways. They aren't leaving Steam unless it goes under, even if something is better out there.

 

[Arulan]

Oh I'm sure a lot of people disagree, but a lot of the time it feels that most of the hate towards Origin/uPlay/etc. is less because they're bad services and more because they remove the ability to easily consolidate your entire library on steam.

There are people who feel that way, but when they offer nothing of value to people who already use Steam, it's not hard to see why they don't bother. Nobody wants to use a useless client/storefront to only launch a handful of games only because they're forced to without any good reason for that client or storefront existing. As I commented on previously, there are other clients and storefronts which don't receive same the criticism. Humble Bundle has found its niche and provides value in the form of affordable bundles. GOG provides DRM-free content, does the work to make sure games work on modern OS, seeks out the publishing rights to older games that have never seen a digital release, and provides several other pro-consumer benefits.

I'll re-post my earlier thoughts:

No corporation is your friend. That being said, this article is a load of bullshit.

Valve, despite being a leader in the industry, and having enormous power to influence, has always pushed for an open-platform. They continue to push themselves away from the position of overlords and gatekeepers of the Steam platform. They compete not by creating artificial value by exclusivity deals, which they very well could, but by creating a better platform than their competitors. And the largest bullshit of all goes to: "is not healthy for gaming". The aforementioned policies and Valve's insistence on them, such as in removing barriers to publication on the storefront have been an incredible boon for indie developers, and part of why they're flourishing now more than ever. Valve's contributions to VR are nothing short of incredible.

How do the other corporations who lead this industry stand up? Not so favorably. Many create closed-platforms so that they can exert their power over it. They compete by creating artificial value and dangling it on a fishing pole. On PC, a lot of these other clients and storefronts are criticized because they add no value to the space. Microsoft's Store for instance is a cancer on the platform, and attempting to undermine its values. Other clients like Uplay offer no value whatsoever but to get in the way. GOG on the other hand is praised quite often. I wonder why that is...

Valve, like every corporation, is still out to make money, but it's the method they go about it that is important.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Ugh.

I have my issues with Valve's approach to some stuff but as someone who has launched 20+ games on Steam and have worked very closely with them I consider them one of the better companies to work with in the industry.

Yes, they are a monopoly at this point but they didn't get there through any real under-handed practices IMO and most of the claims in the article just seem so petty and biased.

As far as I am concerned, Valve was able to establish their monopoly because of how incompetent and short-sighted other companies, such as Microsoft, were in the late 90s.

 

[Machina]

There are a lot of things out there right now that are unhealthy for gaming, and in terms of severity, Steam and Valve are in the bottom third of the list. Where is the hit piece on EA and Origin?

 

[Prototype Viktor]

95% on point
Gj article

 

[Lulubop]

Ugh.

I have my issues with Valve's approach to some stuff but as someone who has launched 20+ games on Steam and have worked very closely with them I consider them one of the better companies to work with in the industry.

Yes, they are a monopoly at this point but they didn't get there through any real under-handed practices IMO and most of the claims in the article just seem so petty and biased.

As far as I am concerned, Valve was able to establish their monopoly because of how incompetent and short-sighted other companies, such as Microsoft, were in the late 90s.

No, they aren't a monoply. Jesus.

 

[BigTnaples]

Lol. Polygon. Worse every day.

 

[biggersmaller]

There isn't but the question is would most people give something better the time of day? It's like when Mac owners say how terrible Windows is and their reference point is Windows XP or older. Or when iPhone owners don't care about better features Android has had for years until Apple decides its matters. They aren't leaving iPhone because they are used to it and have to have that iMessage. People are mostly set in their ways. They aren't leaving Steam unless it goes under, even if something is better out there.

Yes. No near ubiquitous company has ever sacrificed market share to superior competition. Especially in gaming...

 

[Urthor]

ftr the core issue with Valve is it takes a 30% margin on all digital purchases, just like Apple.

Humble store takes a 10% margin. That's why developers have always supported it/Humble bundle partially, it's not actually that greedy. Gog is also 30% iirc but it might be less, I don't remember.


If you want to support game developers, buy Steam keys through the humble store. Except Valve tried to stop this by offering something that Humble can't because of its platform, refunds, begrudgingly trying to knock competitors out of the market.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

No, they aren't a monoply. Jesus.

Okay, in the absolute strictest sense of the word they are not. You are correct there. They are more like an oligopoly.

However, as someone who works in digital distribution and even ran a niche platform in the past, it certainly feels more like a monopoly. I have published games and seen sales data for basically every large DD platform out there, besides stuff like Battle.net, Origin, and UPlay.

I now work for SNK and I can't imagine what would have happened if our recent KOF XIV PC announcement was NOT for Steam.

ftr the core issue with Valve is it takes a 30% margin on all digital purchases, just like Apple.

Humble store takes a 10% margin. That's why developers have always supported it/Humble bundle partially, it's not actually that greedy. Gog is also 30% iirc but it might be less, I don't remember.


If you want to support game developers, buy Steam keys through the humble store. Except Valve tried to stop this by offering something that Humble can't because of its platform, refunds, begrudgingly trying to knock competitors out of the market.

Valve is well within their rights to take 30% and it is very easy to justify that margin. You are not going to get stuff like free network infrastructure directly through Humble.
Most games with online features will still require you to play the Steam version to use those features because the developers are taking advantage of Steamworks network integration.

Honestly speaking, the only reason Humble is as successful as it is is a direct result of Valve's generosity as no other platform allows developers to create keys at no extra cost and even gives them permission to monetize those same keys on other platforms. I personally still believe that was just a dire oversight on Valve's part and they wish they could wind back time on that one....

edit: oh wow I somehow glossed over that Refunds part. I mean...what?
What exactly is stopping Humble from allowing refunds? Do they do it on their standalone store where they sell game separately?

 

[Angry Fork]

That's still not good. Valve does not have incentives to ever improve.

The people who work there decide to improve things how they want, and based on their workplace structure that's because of a lack of hierarchy + some form of workplace democracy, and that's actually been working extremely well.

Uplay, origin etc. weren't around for a long time while Steam was steadily improving in every regard with tons of updates, and still does so while the "competition" has done nothing but take what Valve has done on their own (without the need for competition).

I dislike some things about Valve but the monopoly thing is not one of them, not when the competition is Ubisoft, EA and Microsoft. I'm not interested in them ever getting a foothold in the PC community, ever. Let them fail. They are much worse for PC gaming than Valve.

 

[Jimrpg]

Lol. Polygon. Worse every day.

Headlines for everything are getting worse all over the place. Its not just Polygon. Look at Jim Sterling.

Anyways - clickbait title aside, Valve clearly have plenty of money but they could DO so much more. Where the heck is Half Life 3? Everyone is crying for it and they can't organise someone to make something like Prey to tide everyone over. What is Gabe doing everyday besides counting money?

The Steam Store UI is a mess and has been for years. It's incredibly poorly designed, just the last update, UI buttons and text boxes were all over the place with uneven spacings. They could easily enter the 'console/pc' space but they choose not to. The steam controller looks terrible to me from a design point of view, the steam boxes are an awful concept. Their forums suck. Literally the only thing they've got going for them is that delivering games on steam is great and the updates are easy for consumers.

 

[Carlius]

valve is my friend. sorry polygon. wont get between our relationship.

 

[Abilidebob]

If you want to support game developers, buy Steam keys through the humble store. Except Valve tried to stop this by offering something that Humble can't because of its platform, refunds, begrudgingly trying to knock competitors out of the market.

Wait what?
I mean, seriously, what?

 

[prag16]

Man. I don't mind steam and I use it a lot (though I rarely buy direct from Steam)...

..but the avid defense force and worship is insane. This "steam or gtfo" attitude is ridiculous and illogical . It's like the PC version of console warriors. Only more illogical because separate hardware is not needed for different storefronts.

 

[Finaika]

But Gaben is my friend.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

ftr the core issue with Valve is it takes a 30% margin on all digital purchases, just like Apple.

Humble store takes a 10% margin. That's why developers have always supported it/Humble bundle partially, it's not actually that greedy. Gog is also 30% iirc but it might be less, I don't remember.


If you want to support game developers, buy Steam keys through the humble store. Except Valve tried to stop this by offering something that Humble can't because of its platform, refunds, begrudgingly trying to knock competitors out of the market.

This is hilarious. On one hand, you have people claiming Valve was anti-consumer for not offering refunds until recently. Now you have people claiming they're anti-consumer for offering refunds. They can't win.

Humble Store skims 30% off of sales, according to their FAQ:

After deductions for payment processor fees (typically around 5%) the net revenue is split 3 ways: 75% to developers, 10% to charity and 15% to Humble Bundle to cover costs associated with hosting the content.

5% + 10% + 15% = 30%

 

[Rickenslacker]

I don't read a lot from Polygon but I thought it made some good points. This isn't to say that Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard-Activision, et al. are better, but it does make me miss the days of when the PC platform was the PC platform, with its own sense of independence, whereas now it's morphed into being Steam + some straggler services you put up with. I do like Steam, and it's done a lot of good, but I'm not going to put them on a pedestal. In a weird way, Steam is the service that has made me most feel like "a number", and I've had my own distaste towards the direction they've taken with certain things. I think it was the advent of the Steam trading cards that made me see the ridiculousness of it all. Buy these things so you can level up badges to show off so that your "Steam level" can go up so you can be a cooler Steam person. Get invited into high level Steam groups. Hey, show off your game count. Be part of our community marketplace. Plaster anime gifs on your profile and praise Gaben. Try your luck in one of our games and you might get a $10,000 texture for your Counter-Strike knife! I think I saw a 3 somewhere, HL3 confirmed?!?/1/1///

 

[Corpekata]

ftr the core issue with Valve is it takes a 30% margin on all digital purchases, just like Apple.

Humble store takes a 10% margin. That's why developers have always supported it/Humble bundle partially, it's not actually that greedy. Gog is also 30% iirc but it might be less, I don't remember.


If you want to support game developers, buy Steam keys through the humble store. Except Valve tried to stop this by offering something that Humble can't because of its platform, refunds, begrudgingly trying to knock competitors out of the market.

You think Steam started offering refunds to fight back against developers using a steamworks feature lol?

Steam started doing refunds because they were required to by the EU basically and they expanded it from there (plus outside forces like GOG & Origin having them). It had nothing to with sites like Humble.

 

[Stuggernaut]

I'll use Steam until I find something I like better. It does exactly what I want it to, I rarely (if ever, like count on 1 hand ever) have issues withe software or with any policies like refunds, and it gives me the added benefit of getting some games on the cheap (and yes I am aware I can get deals elsewhere and I do ;P).

I am not a developer though, so I can't speak to any of the frustration points on that front.

I am an end user, and a happy one.

Till the day I am not, at which point I will move on.

And yes, I know "moving on" means I lose a lot of money invested in games. But that was money I spent, and digital media, with a full understanding that I could lose it. I made that decision, not Valve or any other company. I do tend to read up on things before I spend money on them.

Interesting article from a torch and pitchfork perspective though, at least that is how it reads to me. Makes me wonder about the root of this coming to a head with the writer.

 

[InsaneTiger]

No one is Polygon's friend.

 

[Armaros]

I don't read a lot from Polygon but I thought it made some good points. This isn't to say that Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard-Activision, et al. are better, but it does make me miss the days of when the PC platform was the PC platform, with its own sense of independence, whereas now it's morphed into being Steam + some straggler services you put up with. I do like Steam, and it's done a lot of good, but I'm not going to put them on a pedestal. In a weird way, Steam is the service that has made me most feel like "a number", and I've had my own distaste towards the direction they've taken with certain things. I think it was the advent of the Steam trading cards that made me see the ridiculousness of it all. Buy these things so you can level up badges to show off so that your "Steam level" can go up so you can be a cooler Steam person. Get invited into high level Steam groups. Hey, show off your game count. Be part of our community marketplace. Plaster anime gifs on your profile and praise Gaben. Try your luck in one of our games and you might get a $10,000 texture for your Counter-Strike knife! I think I saw a 3 somewhere, HL3 confirmed?!?/1/1///

I'll take Steam over the PC marketplace before, where everyone had to download patches from places like FilePlanet, and online stores were abominations like direct2drive, or other early PC digital stores.

 

[Maddrical]

I like Valve, I like their games and I like Steam. This article points out nothing new to a PC gamer who doesn't live under a rock.

The thing that has most disappointed me has been how they've been handling content creators as of late.

 

[FLAguy954]

Guys, we get it. You don't like Polygon. Why not respond to the content of the article instead of drive-by shitposting because your best corporate friend took some criticism.

If anything, some of these posts are really exemplifying just how deep and irrational Valve loyalism runs.

^

 

[Pacotez]

If you were to ask the average PC gamer, they’d swear up and down that there’s no way they’d ever give their money to such a corporation

talking out of his ass

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Oh I'm sure a lot of people disagree, but a lot of the time it feels that most of the hate towards Origin/uPlay/etc. is less because they're bad services and more because they remove the ability to easily consolidate your entire library on steam. And/or outdated information from when the services were just launched.

And some people hate the idea of games being on anything but Steam. EA putting their own games as Origin only upset some people. I use all but Microsoft store (because I'm not interested in it's games so far) and I have no problem with logging into the different services. I just played Paragon on Epic's app and I don't need to log in manually each time. It just seems like people make excuses for why they need games to be on Steam.

As a Steam controller owner, I'm so happy I found a way around using it for games that aren't Steam. I bought the thing without knowing it needed Steam to run. You almost got me Valve.

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

I like Origin but come on, if EA had the majority of the market PC gaming would be an abomination. Same goes for Microsoft, they've fucked up on both their attempts. (GFWL and Win10)

Valve does a lot of annoying shit but to say Steam isn't healthy for gaming? We're getting Xrd Revelations 2 a week after it hits consoles, just got Bayonetta and Vanquish not to mention older titles that no one thought would ever come to PC like KOFXIII, Metal Gear Solid, etc. Outside of first-party Sony titles basically every game makes its way to PC now and Steam is a big reason for that.

 

[Pacotez]

Oh I'm sure a lot of people disagree, but a lot of the time it feels that most of the hate towards Origin/uPlay/etc. is less because they're bad services and more because they remove the ability to easily consolidate your entire library on steam. And/or outdated information from when the services were just launched.

And how is that not a point? You buy a game on steam and for some reason it has to also launch uplay.
We can also add non-steam games to steam

 

[prag16]

I'll use Steam until I find something I like better. It does exactly what I want it to, I rarely (if ever, like count on 1 hand ever) have issues withe software or with any policies like refunds, and it gives me the added benefit of getting some games on the cheap (and yes I am aware I can get deals elsewhere and I do ;P).

I am not a developer though, so I can't speak to any of the frustration points on that front.

I am an end user, and a happy one.

Till the day I am not, at which point I will move on.

And yes, I know "moving on" means I lose a lot of money invested in games. But that was money I spent, and digital media, with a full understanding that I could lose it. I made that decision, not Valve or any other company. I do tend to read up on things before I spend money on them.

Interesting article from a torch and pitchfork perspective though, at least that is how it reads to me. Makes me wonder about the root of this coming to a head with the writer.

I don't think many people are telling steam loyalists to "move on".

More like don't shit on, and refuse to use, every other storefront strictly because they're not steam.

Whynotboth.gif

 

[sfried]

Thank god for GOG, I guess.

Well, at least Valve has the audacity to try out a radically new control scheme (Steam Controller).

 

[Turin Turambar]

I agree with the article in lots of places, but the article is written in a tone that I find icky.

 

[Atomski]

But but..me and Steam are best buds, we play basketball every Tuesday.