• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Polygon: Valve is not your friend, and Steam is not healthy for gaming

F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I had no idea that Dota2 artists were being screwed. Why would anyone make cosmetics for them now if the royalties are just 5%?
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
Armaros said:
It's amazing that Polygon could take something that should be discussed, Valve and Steam's dominance and the issues that it causes and yet ruin it with mass hyperbole and wierd use of nicknames and 'memes'.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this could have been such a great article. The editor really failed their job by allowing it to be published in its current state
 
Arkage

Arkage

Banned
Dreams-Visions said:
Quite right.

At best you hope their good outweighs their bad.

Outside of the Workshop contributor pay stuff, I think Valve's good far outweighs their bad. That's what matters, ultimately.



this. If I have any complaints at all, they are relatively minor. I don't like neutered steam trading, I don't like the portion artists get for their work in game cosmetics. I can't complain about anything else, personally. That's a pretty short fuckin list.
Click to expand...

Same for me. I go back and forth on how I feel about them depending on the article most recently written, but on a personal level I've had very little issue with Steam.

Comparing them to Uber or Lyft really only works via Valve's microtransaction systems, which yea are shitty, but people are willingly participating in those systems and apparently viewing their effort to $ ratio as worthwhile. I'd sooner judge people's perception of the value of their time before I judge Valve's 25% cut. Valve is viewing their time as not that valuable, and by and large the creators consent to this opinion by continuing to create and sell.
 
B

bigjig

Member
Stumpokapow said:
I don't really think there's much meat here, mostly grist.

The individual arguments are the following:
- Valve has a monopoly
- Some people like Steam and not Origin and they're hypocrites
- Valve let people make money off selling content, but don't pay them enough
- Valve wasn't proactive enough in establishing an EU/AU-compliant digital refunds policy
- Some ex-employees of Valve didn't like the culture.
- Reddit memes are bad

If the point here is "Some People ThinK Valve Is Based And Lord GFaben Dot Meme Dot Bmp!!!", then, like, why would any right-minded adult spend time trying to refute idiot teenagers on the internet.

But if the point here is that this is an indictment of Valve generally, I don't see it. In order:
- Steam has a lower share of PC gaming than ever before. With Twitch, Itch, Gog, Humble, Origin, Uplay, Epic Games Launcher, Windows 10 App Store, Amazon, Battle.net, the Mac App Store, Beth.net, and others there are more clients than ever before. WePlay is about to be an 800 pound gorilla. More games are being sold DRM-free than ever before. Many of the most popular games on the internet are not on Steam. And Valve allows people to sell Steam games on any store with Valve taking a 0% cut, so also Steam the Client and Steam the Store are not connected at all. Moreover, with Greenlight and now Direct, Steam is using what clout it does have less than ever before to constrain winners and losers on their own platform.
- When Steam came out, I didn't want Steam because it was an annoying inconvenience. Then it killed FilePlanet, made patching easy, and then later it solved the 10 foot UI problem for PC, so it is convenient. By comparison, Origin is worse. It's not intrinsically against the rules for people to want their 30%, but they need to earn it. Valve earned it for me. EA didn't. Ubisoft didn't. GOG did. Humble did. Microsoft didn't. This isn't because I'm a hypocrite, it's because I'd generally prefer fewer better clients.
- It sounds to me like Valve is making an error reducing the payout for DOTA2 cosmetic makers. But in general, there's a difference between starting with a status quo where everyone makes money and clawing it back, versus starting with a status quo where no one makes money and giving them a little bit. The alternative to paying community content makers is not paying community content makers. That's bad. Moving to a world where they do get paid, even if it's only the top earners and even if they aren't paid enough, is an improvement. Let's keep improving it by improving what they get paid, allowing paid mods, and reducing gatekeeping.
- I agree with the AU court decisions and support giving consumers additional rights for refunds. Also, no one had a systematic digital refund policy. This was a case where tech got ahead of law. I am glad law is constraining tech. But let's not pretend Bad Actor Valve departed from the tradition of digital refunds to screw people. And their current refund policy is more automated and generous than most other actors.
- if the point here is to point out that Valve's flat hierarchy has strengths and weaknesses, and one weakness is cliquishness and dysfunctionality when it comes to major projects, sure. I think the presentation of digging up all the ex-employees that say bad things and none of the people who feel it is functional makes it difficult to say whether these experiences are the rule or the exception. It also isn't a consumer-facing issue; the bizarre thing is that reddit people care about Valve's corporate structure to begin with.
- Reddit memes are bad.

I think the lack of a through line or coherence to the structure of the essay means that it mostly seems like a stream of consciousness, and the fact that all of these arguments have been made before mostly makes it seem like someone muckracking rather than an original contribution.

But, finally, a lot of this kinda seems Lady MacBeth-y. Like, venting grievances is of course always allowed and fine, but then what? In the end you can basically choose to buy from Steam or not. If you don't, then you give up Steam's value adds. If that bothers you, then Valve has justified their 30%. If it doesn't bother you, life goes on. If you do buy from Steam then it's a tacit consent that, despite your issues, Steam's the best option. Doesn't mean we can't demand better, but it does mean that maybe some of the apocalyptic language is a bit much.

The one line I would want people to take from this post is that Steam never than a monopoly and has less control than ever, so I particularly object to the idea that Bad Guy Valve is Ruining It For The Rest of Us.
Click to expand...

Great post. People describing Steam as a monopoly have a bizarre idea of what a monopoly is.
 
M

Metzhara

Member
Marcel said:
I'd prefer if GOG had a little bit more muscle so they would basically force Steam to have to improve but it is what it is.
Click to expand...

I agree. But it's hard to do when everyone is just so pro-Steam because "I can have my library at my fingertips wherever."
I feel dirty purchasing console games now days as an owner every game he's ever played over the last 20 years (hoard much?). I look at my modern console collection and just wonder when I'm going to stop considering they mean nothing in 10 years with this day 1 update/service business that Steam has helped found in so many industries.

Good on them, I'm just a fan of having ownership of my content.
(Yes, it's odd considering consoles are closed systems... it still irks me I can't mod my console even though I'm absolutely against piracy. One struggle at a time I guess.)
 
N

nycgamer4ever

Member
This article makes some decent points and brings up some real issues, however the entire article reads like a smear campaign paid for by Valves competitors and is hard to take seriously. It states the history of Steam and how it came to be and how it makes money and how much money it makes, etc. and makes Valve out to be some evil corporation that is hell bent on making money. I guess it's competitors are in it for humanitarian purposes. and charity. It's makes it sound like the workshop is bad because Valve makes alot of money from it. Basically it's bad to make money. Which one of Steam's competitors have a similar Workshop program? I don't believe any of them do atm.

I know Steam has its flaws but it's still one of my favorite places to buy games. Is it the only place? Absolutely not but until the competition gets better nothing will change.

At this point in the article I started to lose focus from the hate permeating but managed to finish. They say something about some former employees complaining about the work conditions and slamming the company. Yeah we've never seen this stuff before. I'm sure you can find some of this in every company.

Finally, to end the article they go on to complain about how Valve would rather pay what they "has to be millions" in legal fees instead of refunding a game. I know the process is not perfect but I've never had an issue getting a refund on Steam. It's much better than some of the competition.

It would be most appropriate if they followed up the last sentence of "Maybe it's time for all of us to wake up". with and try "insert any Steam competitor here".
 
R

Ripenen

Member
Valve sells your work to other people, and they take the overwhelming majority of the money from each transaction. Everyone's a winner ... but Valve, whose running costs for the store are essentially zero, and who have just tricked you into joining their content farm, is the biggest winner. You’re putting up your time and effort, and those have a very real cost for you. Valve has lost nothing other than the sunk cost of the employee time spent maintaining the store, while gaining a lot of revenue.
Click to expand...

The author of the article should look up interchange fees. Valve has to pay to process transactions. Also the author should look up the definition of "sunk cost".
 
A

Almighty

Member
Valve has done something that they should rightfully be taken to task for, but the article has done a terrible job arguing that Valve/Steam is this threat to PC gaming. In fact I would argue that Valve's "monopoly" in PC gaming is weaker now than it has been in the past.

I will agree that Valve is not my friend, but they are also not the boogieman this article is seemingly trying to paint them as either.
 
L

L4DANathan

Member
JayEH said:
No corporation is your friend.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

But anyways, saying Steam isn't healthy for gaming is just completely moronic. It's a power vacuum type deal at this point, if it wasn't Steam it would be one of the others. The only other one worth a damn is GOG, and they don't have the backing to win a power struggle against EA, Ubi, or Activision (I say Activision, because if Battle.net were to enter the runnings, it would definitely expand to the whole company). Remember that Uplay doesn't provide refunds, none of them offer mod support either on their platform or for their games, EA/Ubi's use of extreme DRM in the past, or their shady business practices in general. Out of the possibilities, Steam is the second best and they still improve somewhat regularly.
 
K

Kthulhu

Member
Data West said:
Some of talk REALLY need to get over this weird hate boner you have for polygon
Click to expand...

For real. This article is actually well written.

While I have never had the console fanboy stlye love that some do for Valve. This article shows why you shouldn't see them as any different than any other for profit company.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Stumpokapow said:
I don't really think there's much meat here, mostly grist.

The individual arguments are the following:
- Valve has a monopoly
- Some people like Steam and not Origin and they're hypocrites
- Valve let people make money off selling content, but don't pay them enough
- Valve wasn't proactive enough in establishing an EU/AU-compliant digital refunds policy
- Some ex-employees of Valve didn't like the culture.
- Reddit memes are bad

If the point here is "Some People ThinK Valve Is Based And Lord GFaben Dot Meme Dot Bmp!!!", then, like, why would any right-minded adult spend time trying to refute idiot teenagers on the internet.

But if the point here is that this is an indictment of Valve generally, I don't see it. In order:
- Steam has a lower share of PC gaming than ever before. With Twitch, Itch, Gog, Humble, Origin, Uplay, Epic Games Launcher, Windows 10 App Store, Amazon, Battle.net, the Mac App Store, Beth.net, and others there are more clients than ever before. WePlay is about to be an 800 pound gorilla. More games are being sold DRM-free than ever before. Many of the most popular games on the internet are not on Steam. And Valve allows people to sell Steam games on any store with Valve taking a 0% cut, so also Steam the Client and Steam the Store are not connected at all. Moreover, with Greenlight and now Direct, Steam is using what clout it does have less than ever before to constrain winners and losers on their own platform.
- When Steam came out, I didn't want Steam because it was an annoying inconvenience. Then it killed FilePlanet, made patching easy, and then later it solved the 10 foot UI problem for PC, so it is convenient. By comparison, Origin is worse. It's not intrinsically against the rules for people to want their 30%, but they need to earn it. Valve earned it for me. EA didn't. Ubisoft didn't. GOG did. Humble did. Microsoft didn't. This isn't because I'm a hypocrite, it's because I'd generally prefer fewer better clients.
- It sounds to me like Valve is making an error reducing the payout for DOTA2 cosmetic makers. But in general, there's a difference between starting with a status quo where everyone makes money and clawing it back, versus starting with a status quo where no one makes money and giving them a little bit. The alternative to paying community content makers is not paying community content makers. That's bad. Moving to a world where they do get paid, even if it's only the top earners and even if they aren't paid enough, is an improvement. Let's keep improving it by improving what they get paid, allowing paid mods, and reducing gatekeeping.
- I agree with the AU court decisions and support giving consumers additional rights for refunds. Also, no one had a systematic digital refund policy. This was a case where tech got ahead of law. I am glad law is constraining tech. But let's not pretend Bad Actor Valve departed from the tradition of digital refunds to screw people. And their current refund policy is more automated and generous than most other actors.
- if the point here is to point out that Valve's flat hierarchy has strengths and weaknesses, and one weakness is cliquishness and dysfunctionality when it comes to major projects, sure. I think the presentation of digging up all the ex-employees that say bad things and none of the people who feel it is functional makes it difficult to say whether these experiences are the rule or the exception. It also isn't a consumer-facing issue; the bizarre thing is that reddit people care about Valve's corporate structure to begin with.
- Reddit memes are bad.

I think the lack of a through line or coherence to the structure of the essay means that it mostly seems like a stream of consciousness, and the fact that all of these arguments have been made before mostly makes it seem like someone muckracking rather than an original contribution.

But, finally, a lot of this kinda seems Lady MacBeth-y. Like, venting grievances is of course always allowed and fine, but then what? In the end you can basically choose to buy from Steam or not. If you don't, then you give up Steam's value adds. If that bothers you, then Valve has justified their 30%. If it doesn't bother you, life goes on. If you do buy from Steam then it's a tacit consent that, despite your issues, Steam's the best option. Doesn't mean we can't demand better, but it does mean that maybe some of the apocalyptic language is a bit much.

The one line I would want people to take from this post is that Steam never than a monopoly and has less control than ever, so I particularly object to the idea that Bad Guy Valve is Ruining It For The Rest of Us.
Click to expand...
I managed to miss this one. Outstanding post.
 
Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
Huh. I love Steam, the Steam sales and Steam Link. Honestly don't care one bit about their "monopoly" situation as long as things work as well as they do.
 
N

nycgamer4ever

Member
Stumpokapow said:
I don't really think there's much meat here, mostly grist.

The individual arguments are the following:
- Valve has a monopoly
- Some people like Steam and not Origin and they're hypocrites
- Valve let people make money off selling content, but don't pay them enough
- Valve wasn't proactive enough in establishing an EU/AU-compliant digital refunds policy
- Some ex-employees of Valve didn't like the culture.
- Reddit memes are bad

If the point here is "Some People ThinK Valve Is Based And Lord GFaben Dot Meme Dot Bmp!!!", then, like, why would any right-minded adult spend time trying to refute idiot teenagers on the internet.

But if the point here is that this is an indictment of Valve generally, I don't see it. In order:
- Steam has a lower share of PC gaming than ever before. With Twitch, Itch, Gog, Humble, Origin, Uplay, Epic Games Launcher, Windows 10 App Store, Amazon, Battle.net, the Mac App Store, Beth.net, and others there are more clients than ever before. WePlay is about to be an 800 pound gorilla. More games are being sold DRM-free than ever before. Many of the most popular games on the internet are not on Steam. And Valve allows people to sell Steam games on any store with Valve taking a 0% cut, so also Steam the Client and Steam the Store are not connected at all. Moreover, with Greenlight and now Direct, Steam is using what clout it does have less than ever before to constrain winners and losers on their own platform.
- When Steam came out, I didn't want Steam because it was an annoying inconvenience. Then it killed FilePlanet, made patching easy, and then later it solved the 10 foot UI problem for PC, so it is convenient. By comparison, Origin is worse. It's not intrinsically against the rules for people to want their 30%, but they need to earn it. Valve earned it for me. EA didn't. Ubisoft didn't. GOG did. Humble did. Microsoft didn't. This isn't because I'm a hypocrite, it's because I'd generally prefer fewer better clients.
- It sounds to me like Valve is making an error reducing the payout for DOTA2 cosmetic makers. But in general, there's a difference between starting with a status quo where everyone makes money and clawing it back, versus starting with a status quo where no one makes money and giving them a little bit. The alternative to paying community content makers is not paying community content makers. That's bad. Moving to a world where they do get paid, even if it's only the top earners and even if they aren't paid enough, is an improvement. Let's keep improving it by improving what they get paid, allowing paid mods, and reducing gatekeeping.
- I agree with the AU court decisions and support giving consumers additional rights for refunds. Also, no one had a systematic digital refund policy. This was a case where tech got ahead of law. I am glad law is constraining tech. But let's not pretend Bad Actor Valve departed from the tradition of digital refunds to screw people. And their current refund policy is more automated and generous than most other actors.
- if the point here is to point out that Valve's flat hierarchy has strengths and weaknesses, and one weakness is cliquishness and dysfunctionality when it comes to major projects, sure. I think the presentation of digging up all the ex-employees that say bad things and none of the people who feel it is functional makes it difficult to say whether these experiences are the rule or the exception. It also isn't a consumer-facing issue; the bizarre thing is that reddit people care about Valve's corporate structure to begin with.
- Reddit memes are bad.

I think the lack of a through line or coherence to the structure of the essay means that it mostly seems like a stream of consciousness, and the fact that all of these arguments have been made before mostly makes it seem like someone muckracking rather than an original contribution.

But, finally, a lot of this kinda seems Lady MacBeth-y. Like, venting grievances is of course always allowed and fine, but then what? In the end you can basically choose to buy from Steam or not. If you don't, then you give up Steam's value adds. If that bothers you, then Valve has justified their 30%. If it doesn't bother you, life goes on. If you do buy from Steam then it's a tacit consent that, despite your issues, Steam's the best option. Doesn't mean we can't demand better, but it does mean that maybe some of the apocalyptic language is a bit much.

The one line I would want people to take from this post is that Steam never than a monopoly and has less control than ever, so I particularly object to the idea that Bad Guy Valve is Ruining It For The Rest of Us.
Click to expand...

This is a great post. +1
 
B

borges

Banned
The only friends corporations have are the shareholders. This applies for every single corporation in this planet to date.
 
A

Armaros

Member
Gentleman Jack said:
It fails to substantiate several of its more incendiary claims at all. It's actually very poorly written thanks to that.
Click to expand...

It tries to use Reddit and twitch memes as an argument that Valve is bad and at fault in one of its paragraphs, like what kind of writing is that?
 
F

Fularu

Banned
As long as the "Steam or bust" mentality exists nothing will change

People are harming themselves in the end by worshiping steam to ridiculous levels
 
W

Weltall Zero

Member
Stumpokapow said:
I don't really think there's much meat here, mostly grist.

The individual arguments are the following:
- Valve has a monopoly
- Some people like Steam and not Origin and they're hypocrites
- Valve let people make money off selling content, but don't pay them enough
- Valve wasn't proactive enough in establishing an EU/AU-compliant digital refunds policy
- Some ex-employees of Valve didn't like the culture.
- Reddit memes are bad

If the point here is "Some People ThinK Valve Is Based And Lord GFaben Dot Meme Dot Bmp!!!", then, like, why would any right-minded adult spend time trying to refute idiot teenagers on the internet.

But if the point here is that this is an indictment of Valve generally, I don't see it. In order:
- Steam has a lower share of PC gaming than ever before. With Twitch, Itch, Gog, Humble, Origin, Uplay, Epic Games Launcher, Windows 10 App Store, Amazon, Battle.net, the Mac App Store, Beth.net, and others there are more clients than ever before. WePlay is about to be an 800 pound gorilla. More games are being sold DRM-free than ever before. Many of the most popular games on the internet are not on Steam. And Valve allows people to sell Steam games on any store with Valve taking a 0% cut, so also Steam the Client and Steam the Store are not connected at all. Moreover, with Greenlight and now Direct, Steam is using what clout it does have less than ever before to constrain winners and losers on their own platform.
- When Steam came out, I didn't want Steam because it was an annoying inconvenience. Then it killed FilePlanet, made patching easy, and then later it solved the 10 foot UI problem for PC, so it is convenient. By comparison, Origin is worse. It's not intrinsically against the rules for people to want their 30%, but they need to earn it. Valve earned it for me. EA didn't. Ubisoft didn't. GOG did. Humble did. Microsoft didn't. This isn't because I'm a hypocrite, it's because I'd generally prefer fewer better clients.
- It sounds to me like Valve is making an error reducing the payout for DOTA2 cosmetic makers. But in general, there's a difference between starting with a status quo where everyone makes money and clawing it back, versus starting with a status quo where no one makes money and giving them a little bit. The alternative to paying community content makers is not paying community content makers. That's bad. Moving to a world where they do get paid, even if it's only the top earners and even if they aren't paid enough, is an improvement. Let's keep improving it by improving what they get paid, allowing paid mods, and reducing gatekeeping.
- I agree with the AU court decisions and support giving consumers additional rights for refunds. Also, no one had a systematic digital refund policy. This was a case where tech got ahead of law. I am glad law is constraining tech. But let's not pretend Bad Actor Valve departed from the tradition of digital refunds to screw people. And their current refund policy is more automated and generous than most other actors.
- if the point here is to point out that Valve's flat hierarchy has strengths and weaknesses, and one weakness is cliquishness and dysfunctionality when it comes to major projects, sure. I think the presentation of digging up all the ex-employees that say bad things and none of the people who feel it is functional makes it difficult to say whether these experiences are the rule or the exception. It also isn't a consumer-facing issue; the bizarre thing is that reddit people care about Valve's corporate structure to begin with.
- Reddit memes are bad.

I think the lack of a through line or coherence to the structure of the essay means that it mostly seems like a stream of consciousness, and the fact that all of these arguments have been made before mostly makes it seem like someone muckracking rather than an original contribution.

But, finally, a lot of this kinda seems Lady MacBeth-y. Like, venting grievances is of course always allowed and fine, but then what? In the end you can basically choose to buy from Steam or not. If you don't, then you give up Steam's value adds. If that bothers you, then Valve has justified their 30%. If it doesn't bother you, life goes on. If you do buy from Steam then it's a tacit consent that, despite your issues, Steam's the best option. Doesn't mean we can't demand better, but it does mean that maybe some of the apocalyptic language is a bit much.

The one line I would want people to take from this post is that Steam never than a monopoly and has less control than ever, so I particularly object to the idea that Bad Guy Valve is Ruining It For The Rest of Us.
Click to expand...

Amazing post and really all that needs to be said about the matter at this point. Also thanks for confirming my assuption that none of the arguments were even new, so that I don't need to give them a click.

Tangentially, we need an equivalent to the CitizenKaneClap.gif that can't be interpreted as sarcasm.
 
P

PetriP-TNT

Member
From this article I learned that monopoly doesn't mean what it says on the dictionary and one of the biggest online digital stores in the world costs essential zero. What a day.
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
Stumpokapow said:
I don't really think there's much meat here, mostly grist.

The individual arguments are the following:
- Valve has a monopoly
- Some people like Steam and not Origin and they're hypocrites
- Valve let people make money off selling content, but don't pay them enough
- Valve wasn't proactive enough in establishing an EU/AU-compliant digital refunds policy
- Some ex-employees of Valve didn't like the culture.
- Reddit memes are bad

If the point here is "Some People ThinK Valve Is Based And Lord GFaben Dot Meme Dot Bmp!!!", then, like, why would any right-minded adult spend time trying to refute idiot teenagers on the internet.

But if the point here is that this is an indictment of Valve generally, I don't see it. In order:
- Steam has a lower share of PC gaming than ever before. With Twitch, Itch, Gog, Humble, Origin, Uplay, Epic Games Launcher, Windows 10 App Store, Amazon, Battle.net, the Mac App Store, Beth.net, and others there are more clients than ever before. WePlay is about to be an 800 pound gorilla. More games are being sold DRM-free than ever before. Many of the most popular games on the internet are not on Steam. And Valve allows people to sell Steam games on any store with Valve taking a 0% cut, so also Steam the Client and Steam the Store are not connected at all. Moreover, with Greenlight and now Direct, Steam is using what clout it does have less than ever before to constrain winners and losers on their own platform.
- When Steam came out, I didn't want Steam because it was an annoying inconvenience. Then it killed FilePlanet, made patching easy, and then later it solved the 10 foot UI problem for PC, so it is convenient. By comparison, Origin is worse. It's not intrinsically against the rules for people to want their 30%, but they need to earn it. Valve earned it for me. EA didn't. Ubisoft didn't. GOG did. Humble did. Microsoft didn't. This isn't because I'm a hypocrite, it's because I'd generally prefer fewer better clients.
- It sounds to me like Valve is making an error reducing the payout for DOTA2 cosmetic makers. But in general, there's a difference between starting with a status quo where everyone makes money and clawing it back, versus starting with a status quo where no one makes money and giving them a little bit. The alternative to paying community content makers is not paying community content makers. That's bad. Moving to a world where they do get paid, even if it's only the top earners and even if they aren't paid enough, is an improvement. Let's keep improving it by improving what they get paid, allowing paid mods, and reducing gatekeeping.
- I agree with the AU court decisions and support giving consumers additional rights for refunds. Also, no one had a systematic digital refund policy. This was a case where tech got ahead of law. I am glad law is constraining tech. But let's not pretend Bad Actor Valve departed from the tradition of digital refunds to screw people. And their current refund policy is more automated and generous than most other actors.
- if the point here is to point out that Valve's flat hierarchy has strengths and weaknesses, and one weakness is cliquishness and dysfunctionality when it comes to major projects, sure. I think the presentation of digging up all the ex-employees that say bad things and none of the people who feel it is functional makes it difficult to say whether these experiences are the rule or the exception. It also isn't a consumer-facing issue; the bizarre thing is that reddit people care about Valve's corporate structure to begin with.
- Reddit memes are bad.

I think the lack of a through line or coherence to the structure of the essay means that it mostly seems like a stream of consciousness, and the fact that all of these arguments have been made before mostly makes it seem like someone muckracking rather than an original contribution.

But, finally, a lot of this kinda seems Lady MacBeth-y. Like, venting grievances is of course always allowed and fine, but then what? In the end you can basically choose to buy from Steam or not. If you don't, then you give up Steam's value adds. If that bothers you, then Valve has justified their 30%. If it doesn't bother you, life goes on. If you do buy from Steam then it's a tacit consent that, despite your issues, Steam's the best option. Doesn't mean we can't demand better, but it does mean that maybe some of the apocalyptic language is a bit much.

The one line I would want people to take from this post is that Steam never than a monopoly and has less control than ever, so I particularly object to the idea that Bad Guy Valve is Ruining It For The Rest of Us.
Click to expand...

It's rare to see this kind of quality of a post, just as I'm there criticising "game journalism", as usual this is the real stuff worth a read.
 
Northeastmonk

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
I don't understand. I've used this service to buy and play games for years. I have a right to feel happy about the games I have.

I wonder what this actually does to the person who is so upset about it? Will they stop playing Steam games period?

I can't get upset about this because I can load up Steam and play games. I didn't buy them to fill up a number in my Library.

To me, these issues could be addressed where they matter. To a regular gamer no one cares. I guess journalist have more time to care about this versus the consumer who wants something so bad that they spend the money to get a game.

I haven't had too much to complain about. I sure won't uninstall Steam or complain until my TOS are violated. I just want to play the games I bought.
 
P

phaonaut

Member
The Exploder said:
Also had to scour the internet for the latest patch, which sometimes had to be downloaded from weird 3rd party download sites.
Click to expand...

Also you needed to keep the patch copies, because patches would be broken links eventually. It was terrible. Finding an old mod that works only on a specific patch version and the company no longer hosts that patch.
 
T

thiscoldblack

Unconfirmed Member
I like the Steam platform, but I can't deny that the client is outdated, support is barely non-existent and that they pay next to nothing to workshop content creators.
 
A

Arulan

Member
Abilidebob said:
Does Valve even have shareholders? Serious question, I don't know shit about private/public companies.
Click to expand...

No they do not, and I'd argue that's one of the reasons they're able to do what sets them apart from other corporations and (video game) industry leaders.
 
K

KillLaCam

Banned
Polygon is funny
Cheap labor doesn't effect my enjoyment of the actual product. Those things don't correlate at all. Like sure I'd like Bob who works for $2 a hour to get paid a liveable wage. But that doesn't magically make the product that he's working on crappy.

For the consumer valve brought alot of things
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
NoblesseOblige said:
Does the editor touch opinion pieces?
Click to expand...

I don't know, I'm not a journalist, lol

I would have thought they would provide input in an effort to make articles as good as they could have been. But the writer seems to have no connection to polygon at all (this is the only piece he has written for them) so maybe things work differently then
 
C

calavera_jo

Neo Member
finalflame said:
Good luck not buying most PC games. I guess if you're only into a certain small slice of indie titles then it's fine.
Click to expand...

Find myself purchasing 50% of my games through steam and the other 50% through gog.

The selection of games is smaller for now, we're voting with our wallets.
 
D

dsk1210

Member
Valve has offered nothing to the PC community except maybe?

Steam controller
Vr integration
Big picture mode
Broadcasting/streaming
Friend and family libary sharing
Uncensored customer reviews
Heavy discounts
Japanese games
Customisable controller (ps4,Xbox,switch pro)
Cards that can be redeemed for money
Game gifting
Automatic patching
Huge libary of amazing games


All they do is take take and take.
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
Looking into the author, it seems he runs a gaming satire site. Parts of this article are so poorly written that I think he might just be trolling Polygon. But he does make some some good points near the end so idk
 
A

ArjanN

Member
Stumpokapow said:
I don't really think there's much meat here, mostly grist.

The individual arguments are the following:
- Valve has a monopoly
- Some people like Steam and not Origin and they're hypocrites
- Valve let people make money off selling content, but don't pay them enough
- Valve wasn't proactive enough in establishing an EU/AU-compliant digital refunds policy
- Some ex-employees of Valve didn't like the culture.
- Reddit memes are bad

If the point here is "Some People ThinK Valve Is Based And Lord GFaben Dot Meme Dot Bmp!!!", then, like, why would any right-minded adult spend time trying to refute idiot teenagers on the internet.

But if the point here is that this is an indictment of Valve generally, I don't see it. In order:
- Steam has a lower share of PC gaming than ever before. With Twitch, Itch, Gog, Humble, Origin, Uplay, Epic Games Launcher, Windows 10 App Store, Amazon, Battle.net, the Mac App Store, Beth.net, and others there are more clients than ever before. WePlay is about to be an 800 pound gorilla. More games are being sold DRM-free than ever before. Many of the most popular games on the internet are not on Steam. And Valve allows people to sell Steam games on any store with Valve taking a 0% cut, so also Steam the Client and Steam the Store are not connected at all. Moreover, with Greenlight and now Direct, Steam is using what clout it does have less than ever before to constrain winners and losers on their own platform.
- When Steam came out, I didn't want Steam because it was an annoying inconvenience. Then it killed FilePlanet, made patching easy, and then later it solved the 10 foot UI problem for PC, so it is convenient. By comparison, Origin is worse. It's not intrinsically against the rules for people to want their 30%, but they need to earn it. Valve earned it for me. EA didn't. Ubisoft didn't. GOG did. Humble did. Microsoft didn't. This isn't because I'm a hypocrite, it's because I'd generally prefer fewer better clients.
- It sounds to me like Valve is making an error reducing the payout for DOTA2 cosmetic makers. But in general, there's a difference between starting with a status quo where everyone makes money and clawing it back, versus starting with a status quo where no one makes money and giving them a little bit. The alternative to paying community content makers is not paying community content makers. That's bad. Moving to a world where they do get paid, even if it's only the top earners and even if they aren't paid enough, is an improvement. Let's keep improving it by improving what they get paid, allowing paid mods, and reducing gatekeeping.
- I agree with the AU court decisions and support giving consumers additional rights for refunds. Also, no one had a systematic digital refund policy. This was a case where tech got ahead of law. I am glad law is constraining tech. But let's not pretend Bad Actor Valve departed from the tradition of digital refunds to screw people. And their current refund policy is more automated and generous than most other actors.
- if the point here is to point out that Valve's flat hierarchy has strengths and weaknesses, and one weakness is cliquishness and dysfunctionality when it comes to major projects, sure. I think the presentation of digging up all the ex-employees that say bad things and none of the people who feel it is functional makes it difficult to say whether these experiences are the rule or the exception. It also isn't a consumer-facing issue; the bizarre thing is that reddit people care about Valve's corporate structure to begin with.
- Reddit memes are bad.

I think the lack of a through line or coherence to the structure of the essay means that it mostly seems like a stream of consciousness, and the fact that all of these arguments have been made before mostly makes it seem like someone muckracking rather than an original contribution.

But, finally, a lot of this kinda seems Lady MacBeth-y. Like, venting grievances is of course always allowed and fine, but then what? In the end you can basically choose to buy from Steam or not. If you don't, then you give up Steam's value adds. If that bothers you, then Valve has justified their 30%. If it doesn't bother you, life goes on. If you do buy from Steam then it's a tacit consent that, despite your issues, Steam's the best option. Doesn't mean we can't demand better, but it does mean that maybe some of the apocalyptic language is a bit much.

The one line I would want people to take from this post is that Steam never than a monopoly and has less control than ever, so I particularly object to the idea that Bad Guy Valve is Ruining It For The Rest of Us.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif


Thanks for saving me the time for typing all this.
 
Y

yuraya

Member
dsk1210 said:
Steam controller
Vr integration
Big picture mode
Broadcasting/streaming
Friend and family libary sharing
Uncensored customer reviews
Heavy discounts
Japanese games
Customisable controller (ps4,Xbox,switch pro)
Cards that can be redeemed for money
Game gifting
Automatic patching
Huge libary of amazing games
Click to expand...

Unhealthy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Is it time for Valve to take another crack at the Steam Machine?
2
94
4K
jshackles replied
Tim Sweeney emailed Gabe Newell calling Valve 'you assholes' over Steam policies, to which Valve's COO simply replied 'you mad bro?'
Game Dev 2 3 4 5
212
12K
SoloCamo replied
Valve Hints At Its Wireless VR Headset Plans In Steam Deck OLED Interview
Opinion Game Dev VR
16
2K
mrcroket replied
Valve says "technology doesn't exist" yet for full Steam Deck 2.0 | Half-Life maker has several games targeting current hardware in pipeline
News Hardware
37
3K
Klosshufvud replied
  • Poll
[The Verge] It’s time for Microsoft to build an Xbox Steam Deck
2 3 4
184
10K
SHA replied
Top Bottom