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[The Albatross]

I'm sure they do take solace. That they feel guilty or refer to their abortion as a sin at all is a problem in and of itself, because they should never have been taught that anyway.

This is asinine -- as if nobody is allowed to have a personal conviction unless it's the same one that you have. I'm pro-choice through and through, and civically, I think it makes plenty of sense for society, but I can understand why somebody who has religious convictions might feel that abortion is as sin for them. If someone believes in the sanctity of human life and also believes that a fetus is a human, and hence, they personally are against abortion for themselves, who are you to teach them right and wrong?

 

[CadetMahoney]

"Forgive"

"Best Pope"

Lol

Yea. This forgiveness angle doesn't change any of it's intention to criminilize it. Forgiveness is issue after the fact regarding women who are Catholic and broke (arguably) self-imposed rules. best pope still doe.

People are saying how liberal and merciful this pope is, but that's just bullshit. The church is losing members and this measure is there to prevent young women/couples already abandoning a dying church.

 

[Omegasquash]

This is asinine -- as if nobody is allowed to have a personal conviction unless it's the same one that you have. I'm pro-choice through and through, and civically, I think it makes plenty of sense for society, but I can understand why somebody who has religious convictions might feel that abortion is as sin for them.

You don't think it's a problem that they were taught that? My statement was aimed at the teachings, not the people. Please read that part of my post prior to saying that it's asinine.

I don't need to ask forgiveness for thinking that the church has taught people some objectively bad things.

 

[Northeastmonk]

I had an old ex-girlfriend have an abortion when I was 18. To think now she gets forgiven is crazy. I'm a person who feels that there is no such thing as a holy person on earth. I don't think we should necessarily have religious leaders besides teachers.

She's not even Catholic (haven't spoken to her in years though), but it feels like such a burden having it all be summed up by one man.

I didn't necessarily have the best relationship with her, but an abortion is still an abortion.

It's unthinkable to gather the idea that we've lived generation after generation and one day something religious is deemed okay for God to forgive. I must have lost my faith more than I thought. I guess I'll just stay out of religious debates and so forth. If I ever attend church it's going to be the sermon and hymns kinda service where no one talks about these things.

 

[Lothar]

Still hates the gays though

He also hates Euthansia. He's a horrible human being.

Anyone against euthansia is a monster.

 

[jmdajr]

Forgiveness that's crazy....

does he think he's Jesus or something?

 

[BronzeWolf]

This sounds silly to a lot of Americans, but this could have important repercussions in policy in fiercely Catholic countries like Mexico. Without religion as a justification, politicians would lose a lot of support against abortion policies.

 

[Hari Seldon]

This sounds silly to a lot of Americans, but this could have important repercussions in policy in fiercely Catholic countries like Mexico. Without religion as a justification, politicians would lose a lot of support against abortion policies.

Yeah this isn't a big deal for the US but in Central and South America it is a much bigger deal.

 

[The Albatross]

You don't think it's a problem that they were taught that? My statement was aimed at the teachings, not the people. Please read that part of my post prior to saying that it's asinine.

I don't need to ask forgiveness for thinking that the church has taught people some objectively bad things.

No, I don't think it's a problem because the Church is not teaching a social sciences class, it's teaching a religious vocation. It would be entirely inconsistent with the catechism of the Catholic Church if they said "all human life is sacred and human life begins as conception," but, what the hell, Freakanomics said that Abortion led to less crime, so abortion is A-OKAY."

The Church doesn't ascend to the same utilitarian "greatest good for the greatest number" approach to civics, like say government or your Home Owners Association should. Instead, the Church has specific beliefs that it applies to all human life, of which it considers a conceived fetus a human life.

Now, I'm happy to state I'm a pro-choice atheist, but I'm not so proud to think that all people in the world should share the same worldview that I have, even if I think that my worldview is the most reasonable one for me. I'm willing to permit other people to feel another way about something that they consider important to them, but is less important to me.

I had an old ex-girlfriend have an abortion when I was 18. To think now she gets forgiven is crazy. I'm a person who feels that there is no such thing as a holy person on earth. I don't think we should necessarily have religious leaders besides teachers.

She's not even Catholic (haven't spoken to her in years though), but it feels like such a burden having it all be summed up by one man.

I didn't necessarily have the best relationship with her, but an abortion is still an abortion.

It's unthinkable to gather the idea that we've lived generation after generation and one day something religious is deemed okay for God to forgive. I must have lost my faith more than I thought. I guess I'll just stay out of religious debates and so forth. If I ever attend church it's going to be the sermon and hymns kinda service where no one talks about these things.

This is a fairly conflicted post, but to be sure, if your ex-girlfriend is not Catholic, then she's not going to seek forgiveness (or be granted it) by a Catholic priest.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Limited collector's edition forgiveness.

Preorder now.

Kickstarter to get into heaven.

 

[rhandino]

Forgiveness that's crazy....

does he think he's Jesus or something?

LOL Of course not.

What they do have is something called Papal Supremacy that basically boils down to: Him, as a Vicar of Christ, has supreme power and authority over the whole church.

 

[Pejo]

Best Pope is best.

He's making more numerous steps in the right direction than many before him.

Sure for us who are not of the faith some of these things might seem laughable or whatever but really, you can bet for those who are of the faith stuff like this is quite significant.

Yea I think this is the thing that a lot of GAF has a problem understanding. The average athiest on GAF doesn't put any sort of weight into faith or religion, but to those that live "by the book", these are huge sweeping changes in beliefs they held important for a long, long time.

Regardless, as someone that was raised Catholic, and turned away after seeing a lot of fallacies with the church, this is really nice to hear.

 

[Omegasquash]

No, I don't think it's a problem because the Church is not teaching a social sciences class, it's teaching a religious vocation. It would be entirely inconsistent with the catechism of the Catholic Church if they said "all human life is sacred and human life begins as conception," but, what the hell, Freakanomics said that Abortion led to less crime, so abortion is A-OKAY."

The Church doesn't ascend to the same utilitarian "greatest good for the greatest number" approach to civics, like say government or your Home Owners Association should. Instead, the Church has specific beliefs that it applies to all human life, of which it considers a conceived fetus a human life.

Now, I'm happy to state I'm a pro-choice atheist, but I'm not so proud to think that all people in the world should share the same worldview that I have, even if I think that my worldview is the most reasonable one for me. I'm willing to permit other people to feel another way about something that they consider important to them, but is less important to me.

So basically "they can teach what they want because it's religious", yet ignoring that those teachings are oppressive to women in many cases?

Sure, they can teach that. Just like hate based groups can continue to preach their hate based schtick over and over again. And I'm free to say that they're wrong, and that plenty of the shit they teach is not OK. This isn't a statement on world view, or a statement on civics. This is about an individual being taught (in one form or another) to feel ashamed or guilty about a choice and that they need to answer to a God, conveniently located behind an organization.

 

[exmachina64]

Most priests in the United States already had faculties to forgive abortions (i.e. most bishops in the United States already gave their priests faculties to forgive abortion).

Reporting on Pope Francis continues to be hilariously misleading, as he mostly does and says exactly what his two immediate predecessors did and said, and somehow everyone decides to ignore the stuff they don't like and exaggerate the stuff they do like. In other news, grass is green.

Also, he gave faculties to validly hear confessions to the traditionalist quasi-schismatic group called the Fraternal Society of Saint Pius X. So that's interesting.

This. Stop making threads like he's different or changing the Catholic Church. Nothing's changed.

 

[Kill3r7]

So basically "they can teach what they want because it's religious", yet ignoring that those teachings are oppressive to women in many cases?

Sure, they can teach that. Just like hate based groups can continue to preach their hate based schtick over and over again. And I'm free to say that they're wrong, and that plenty of the shit they teach is not OK. This isn't a statement on world view, or a statement on civics. This is about an individual being taught (in one form or another) to feel ashamed or guilty about a choice and that they need to answer to a God, conveniently located behind an organization.

Is that the basis of every major religion?

 

[heavenly]

Isn't this blasphemy? Only God can forgive sins. Same thing Pharisees was accusing Jesus of.

 

[rhandino]

Isn't this blasphemy? Only God can forgive sins. Same thing Pharisees was accusing Jesus of.

The Forgiveness of Sins

All pardon for sins ultimately comes from Christ’s finished work on Calvary, but how is this pardon received by individuals? Did Christ leave us any means within the Church to take away sin? The Bible says he gave us two means.

[ ... ]

Since he would not always be with the Church visibly, Christ gave this power to other men so the Church, which is the continuation of his presence throughout time (Matt. 28:20), would be able to offer forgiveness to future generations. He gave his power to the apostles, and it was a power that could be passed on to their successors and agents, since the apostles wouldn’t always be on earth either, but people would still be sinning.

 

[demon]

I agree that woman shouldn't need to ask for forgiveness for an abortion and its pretty absurd.

Still is a pretty nice step for the Church though further showing how more likable this Pope is.

Some women have feelings of guilt or regret, even if there's nothing they should feel bad about. If getting forgiveness from pope frank makes them feel better then all the better.

 

[Lucky Forward]

That seems weird that he should have to allow it. I thought one of the central tenets of the faith was that all sins could be forgiven.

Actually, there is one sin that can never be forgiven, and it's not abortion.

"And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

-- Matthew 12: 31-32

So lay off the Holy Ghost.

 

[DottyHead]

Limited collector's edition forgiveness.

Preorder now.

Amazing

 

[soul creator]

while I understand his influential role in shaping opinions of the millions of Catholic Church members worldwide, and that any progress, however slight, is almost always better than no progress, and that such an antiquated, massive institution is not going to change overnight, I have to admit I always think of MadTV whenever I read a pope thread:

 

[Omegasquash]

Is that the basis of every major religion?

There's an SotN joke to be made, there.

And not entirely. Protestants emphasize a 1:1 relationship with God, if I'm not mistaken. I don't much care for that either, since the teachings and interpretations can and often are pretty dogmatic (see: "fire and brimstone" sermons).

 

[Fj0823]

This is asinine -- as if nobody is allowed to have a personal conviction unless it's the same one that you have. I'm pro-choice through and through, and civically, I think it makes plenty of sense for society, but I can understand why somebody who has religious convictions might feel that abortion is as sin for them. If someone believes in the sanctity of human life and also believes that a fetus is a human, and hence, they personally are against abortion for themselves, who are you to teach them right and wrong?

I like you.

A catholic woman might need to have an abortion, its a sin in her faith but She will be forgiven.

This is a message for catholic women who might feel conflicted or guilty about their decision, he's not saying "Youre all sinners but now we can forgive you!" to every pro choice out there.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

This. Stop making threads like he's different or changing the Catholic Church. Nothing's changed.

Bingo.

"You can now be forgiven for abortions! Omg!!" Psh- Don't need yo forgiveness, motha fuggaaaaa

 

[Herne]

To paraphrase a certain character - if you don't play the game, don't make the rules.

 

[CountAntonius]

Lol at the good press this is generating, it makes no sense to me. It's not even a change in the draconian stance.

There is nothing those women did that needs to be forgiven in the first place.

These are Catholic women who seek forgiveness. They want it and now they are getting it. It's not about anyone else.

 

[Omegasquash]

These are Catholic women who seek forgiveness. They want it and now they are getting it. It's not about anyone else.

They've always been able to get it, AFAIK.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Nothing's changed, but it is interesting to see that the media thinks it has. Francis giving all priests a blanket no ifs or buts right to absolve that sin is a positive step if not one that will radically alter the Church's formal stance.

I suspect the Church's informal stance is that this really wouldn't be as big an issue if their congregations took the whole 'don't have all that unsafe sex if you cannot look after a child' advice seriously.

Fortunately people are, which is why birthrates are dropping and will continue to drop.

There's not much the Church can do to liberalise their abortion stance that makes sense. Even if it is for no good reason, someone should be able to dictate if they want to not have a kid. But the Church cannot back abortion under any circumstance.

 

[heavenly]

The Forgiveness of Sins

Jesus never gave His disciples (nor the chruch) the ability to forgive sins. The biblical definition of blasphemy is man taking the prerogatives of God such as claiming to forgive sins.

Mark 2:7
“Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the disciples to continue to spread the gospel message with power as God the Father had sent His Son.

Acts: 10:44
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Actually, there is one sin that can never be forgiven, and it's not abortion.

"And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

-- Matthew 12: 31-32

So lay off the Holy Ghost.

Huh. I learned something today.

 

[99hertz]

Nice try but give up the well-traveled pedophiles.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Gee, thanks.

 

[VoxPop]

Actually, there is one sin that can never be forgiven, and it's not abortion.

"And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

-- Matthew 12: 31-32

So lay off the Holy Ghost.

This is the almighty loving God?

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

That they're arrogant enough to think that women need forgiveness for owning their own body speaks volumes about the church.

Then again, it's the church.

Almost exactly the same as what I was going to post, so it's nice to see it already covered.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

He's a Pope that won't go all the way. A good Pope would say "fuck this shit, God loves you no matter what: use condoms, don't ruin yourself with kids, and smang whoever you want before marriage because I sure as Hell am."

 

[Zoe]

That they're arrogant enough to think that women need forgiveness for owning their own body speaks volumes about the church.

Then again, it's the church.

What does that say about the women who do feel they need the forgiveness then?

 

[number47]

He's a Pope that won't go all the way. A good Pope would say "fuck this shit, God loves you no matter what: use condoms, don't ruin yourself with kids, and smang whoever you want before marriage because I sure as Hell am."

Why would god want you to use condoms?

 

[Deleted member 13876]

"For a Limited Time!"

How odd.

Call us now and receive a free absolution for adultery!

 

[ElTorro]

Yea. This forgiveness angle doesn't change any of it's intention to criminilize it. Forgiveness is issue after the fact regarding women who are Catholic and broke (arguably) self-imposed rules. best pope still doe.

People are saying how liberal and merciful this pope is, but that's just bullshit. The church is losing members and this measure is there to prevent young women/couples already abandoning a dying church.

Pretty much. People are getting caught up in positive media reports about the Pope without looking at the actual statements or actions of the current church. Just read the press release in the OT. Does that sound like a liberal guy to you?

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Why would god want you to use condoms?

God's not Catholic.

 

[Darksol]

Abortion isn't something a woman should have to seek forgiveness for -- especially not from an old, unmarried dude.

I mean, I guess this is progress as far as the Vatican is concerned -- but it's still way behind actual progress.

 

[Netherscourge]

Ok, Pope. So we can forgive abortion, aka BABY MURDER according to all the Pro-Lifers, but we still can't let gay people get married?

 

[The Lamonster]

I thought the Christian god would forgive anything. CRAZY that this is big news

 

[CrocMother]

Some women have feelings of guilt or regret, even if there's nothing they should feel bad about. If getting forgiveness from pope frank makes them feel better then all the better.

this

 

[Spoo]

Step right up, step right up everyone! Come get yer one time, limited, baby murdering absolvements! Get em while they're hot!

Seems a tad wee bit arbitrary to me, but it's still a good thing for them to do.

 

[N.Domixis]

Yeah I was raised Catholic and that was my general impression too. I still remember my first confession. FUCK that was horrible. Never went again.

Pope Francis is obviously deciding here that women are all that keeps the church going so let's try not to drive them all away.

I was raised catholic but never cared, but I think the first confession was mandatory, I went into the closet and I told the guy I had no sins lmao. I wouldn't budge and finally I walked out.

 

[Netherscourge]

What the Pope hopes:

Women who have had abortions in the past will no longer feel ostracized or condemned in the eyes of God.


What will probably happen:

Women who get unwantedly pregnant between now and the end of the "Year of Mercy" will get an abortion and not feel guilty about it because Pope said they're forgiven for 1 abortion.

 

[DragonSworne]

GameSpot exclusive satanic pope skin available during preorder.

 

[GamerJM]

That seems weird that he should have to allow it. I thought one of the central tenets of the faith was that all sins could be forgiven.

Yeah, I didn't know this was something that wasn't allowed and I'm Catholic.

 

[DragonSworne]

This is the almighty loving God?

Don't make fun of God. He's sensitive.

I'm pretty sure we can diagnosis God with borderline personality disorder.