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[HylianTom]

oh i totally agree. i mean the thing people really have to consider is that this is yet another symptom of the wii basically killing off all the games (and companies) that real gamers love..

*groan*

 

[poppabk]

Define "success" - it's one of the lowest selling first-party Wii games.

But you are judging based on its first party nature, over a million worldwide sales on Wii would make it a "success". If QoS, MOH:H2, BiA had done those kind of numbers we wouldn't be having this argument.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

So it was there PS3 exclusivity that hurt them, if they had released Haze on 360 also they would have been alright?

It would have helped, but the fact that the game sucks and had a shitty demo probably would have meant that it was doomed to fail.

*groan*

Spoiler

If you only own a Wii you don't deserve to call yourself a gamer there I said it.

But you are judging based on its first party nature, over a million worldwide sales on Wii would make it a "success". If QoS, MOH:H2, BiA had done those kind of numbers we wouldn't be having this argument.

True, but let's consider the other games you listed - one's terrible, another's a port of two three-year-old games (and terrible), and I don't know anything about the third, which I'm gonna guess means "sent to die" (MoH).

 

[Stumpokapow]

Define "success" - it's one of the lowest selling first-party Wii games.

that's not even close to true. not even in the lowest 50%.

Spoiler

If you only own a Wii you don't deserve to call yourself a gamer there I said it.

i guess you didn't read all the "banned" tags in the first 8-16 pages of this thread.

 

[AstroLad]

If you only own a Wii you don't deserve to call yourself a gamer there I said it.

:lol well I wouldn't go that far. But not "real gamer" in the sense I used it though. Not the kind of people that grew up with the all-time classic games I grew up with like MGS, FFVII and the like. how can someone really bring that much to the table when they have no appreciation or knowledge of the history of gaming and the core games that made gaming what it is today?

 

[I AM JOHN!]

that's not even close to true. not even in the lowest 50%.

Oh it's not anymore? Good, because it's rad. Last I heard (which is a while, since I don't actively follow Sale-age anymore), it still was.

i guess you didn't read all the "banned" tags in the first 8-16 pages of this thread.

Guess I should've added a winky smiley; I'm just trying to egg on the annoying people who won't shut up about how FR SHOULD HAVE GONE WII AND THEY'D BE ALIVE IF THEY DID!!!

 

[Littleberu]

why do people think this has anything to do with the wii? they had wii projects. For all we known TS4 primary platform could have been for the wii. The fact that they weren't on wii has nothing to do with them closing/going bankrupt. they ran out of money because lucas arts pulled them off battlefront and no publisher was interested in what they were pitching. they weren't getting any money. destroyed their savings to remain open in the hope of being signed.
what it comes down too is the following.
1. what they were pitching wasn't that interesting
2. they were asking for too much money
3. they pissed off publishers, and no one wanted to work with them

sadly, making games is somewhat of an oldboy's club.

It wasn't in development for the Wii.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

It wasn't in development for the Wii.

I gotta say, much as I liked the art style in TS2, next-gen Timesplitters characters don't really do it for me. I don't know why.

Sheriff of the Martian Wild West. :lol

 

[Atreides]

oh i totally agree. i mean the thing people really have to consider is that this is yet another symptom of the wii basically killing off all the games (and companies) that real gamers love. there is no question in my mind that if much of the wii userbase had gone to ps3 instead, and had exposure to more core games (and their quality), that FR would have been able to further polish Haze and just create an amazing experience, and ALL gamers would have been better off for it.

instead we get carnival games and we're supposed to cheer that. :/

If you only own a Wii you don't deserve to call yourself a gamer there I said it.

:lol well I wouldn't go that far. But not "real gamer" in the sense I used it though. Not the kind of people that grew up with the all-time classic games I grew up with like MGS, FFVII and the like. how can someone really bring that much to the table when they have no appreciation or knowledge of the history of gaming and the core games that made gaming what it is today?

I agree completely. No true Scotman... er... I mean, gamer would own only a Wii. And Wii is killing the games that true Scotmen love. I mean gamer.

 

[Scrow]

Spoiler

If you only own a Wii you don't deserve to call yourself a gamer there I said it.

i also own a PC

 

[HylianTom]

i also own a PC

That was going to be my reply. :lol

 

[I AM JOHN!]

GOOD LORD PEOPLE IT WAS A JOKE POST READ THREE DAMN POSTS DOWN.

 

[poppabk]

True, but let's consider the other games you listed - one's terrible, another's a port of two three-year-old games (and terrible), and I don't know anything about the third, which I'm gonna guess means "sent to die" (MoH).

Right the original post I was responding to was Opiates - all of these failures in a row - even though explainable individually (as you adequately did above) become a trend of failures. I was just pointing out that there were some "successes" that would have to be explained away to maintain this trend, which doesn't make it much of a trend. Basically COD:WAW is our best test case so far for FPS's on Wii and its a pretty crappy one at that due to the reduced features and lack of COD4 continuity.

 

[poppabk]

:lol well I wouldn't go that far. But not "real gamer" in the sense I used it though. Not the kind of people that grew up with the all-time classic games I grew up with like MGS, FFVII and the like. how can someone really bring that much to the table when they have no appreciation or knowledge of the history of gaming and the core games that made gaming what it is today?

I can never tell if you are joking or not.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Spoiler

If you only own a Wii you don't deserve to call yourself a gamer there I said it.

Well I suppose that settles it- after gaming my entire life from the Super NES to the Wii, after playing hundreds of games across multiple generations, after getting multiple people around me to play truly entertaining adventures, I guess can't call myself a gamer because someone on NeoGAF said so. I might as well just sell all the games I have right now.

Spoiler

This type of thinking is stupid and dangerous.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

So it was there PS3 exclusivity that hurt them, if they had released Haze on 360 also they would have been alright?

It would have sold more copies, but that's not the issue. The issue is that Haze was such a poorly dropped turd that nobody wanted to publish or continue FRD projects. Haze wouldn't have been a better game on any platform.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Haze wouldn't have been a better game on any platform.

Or maybe it would have.

 

[ZROCOOL]

Nothing to see.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Or maybe it would have.

It wouldn't have. Haze would have still been bad if it was on the Crysis engine and played on a top-notch rig.

 

[Zoe]

Try reading the thread.

 

[ZROCOOL]

Try reading the thread.

Oppps! Sorry it wasn't meant for this forum, I have way to many tabs open. And I was wondering why it hasn't shown up on the other boards I visit.

 

[FabCam]

It would have sold more copies, but that's not the issue. The issue is that Haze was such a poorly dropped turd that nobody wanted to publish or continue FRD projects.

I don't quite see how that is true. Whilst HAZE was bad, it wasn't awful. It was very average. Loads of very average developers get contracts over and over again. Just looks at almost every Ubisoft title.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

I don't quite see how that is true. Whilst HAZE was bad, it wasn't awful. It was very average. Loads of very average developers get contracts over and over again. Just looks at almost every Ubisoft title.

but combined with their reputation for being difficult, etc that is more than enough to sink a small/medium sized developer.

 

[lsslave]

I don't quite see how that is true. Whilst HAZE was bad, it wasn't awful. It was very average. Loads of very average developers get contracts over and over again. Just looks at almost every Ubisoft title.

HAZE was a bad game, from what I understand (can't play FPS games) but from this thread it seems like there was a lot more going on

I would say the most devastating thing is losing their contract with LucasArts, they were trying to hammer out a deal for exclusivity which would obviously mean that they weren't shopping around their other projects at the same time

Shopping around a project while still working under a contract = survivable, your not panicking, but the second that was lost as well as the "exclusivity" deal that was discussed it seems that they were now fucked, its hard to sell something when the clock is working against you and you only have so much money saved up

It takes more than 1 bad game to ruin a company, but Free Radical aren't exactly a million plus guarantee in the first place.

 

[Arkham]

I just found this on a GS blog: (Not sure if that site is still unmentionable, so I'll refrain from giving the link.)

UPDATE: The worst has come to pass. This Is Nottingham has confirmed with Cameron Gunn of Resolve Partners, a bankruptcy-resolution firm, that Free Radical has been "placed in to administration yesterday afternoon."

"We will be spending the next three or four days assessing the financial position of the company but it's business as usual, although we have asked that almost all of the employees apart from a skeleton crew remain at home," said Gunn. "All employees have been paid up until the end of December and we hope to make another announcement before Christmas or very soon thereafter, but we must stress at this stage that it's business as usual."

This Is Nottingham reports that Free Radical employs 185 people, and it was unclear how many would be out of work.

(my emphasis)

 

[liuelson]

Let me use pure math to further explain my point, then. Let's imagine that Developer A, Developer B, Developer C, Developer D were all 90% likely to fail while focusing their resources on HD consoles. That seems reasonable, doesn't it? Those developers had serious flaws, so the chance for any substantive success was small, even though the HD consoles do sell a lot of games.

And individually, it's not surprising that any of these didn't do well. However, what were the odds that they would all fail? Answer: about 65%. That's not terrible, but its certainly less encouraging.

Now, what happens if that streak hits 6? Or 8? The odds that this is pure chance reduce to 53% and then 43%, respectively. At that point, it's looking increasingly likely that this is more than random chance, and that focusing your resources on the HD platforms actually behaves differently than a different strategy.

Fixed?

 

[lubczyk]

Great Post.



All they need to do is take a glance at Wii chart toppers. I mean Wii fit? I still dont understand why you guys defend that product but hate on publishers when they deliver something similar. Hypocrites of the highest order.

What's wrong with Wii Fit? The Balance Board works great with Shawn White?

Some people, in the case of the Wii - a majority, have differing tastes from you.

And please define what real gaming is? Is it GTAIV with game mechanics out of 2001? Is it MGS4 with crappy controls, crappie camera and a tediously boring and pretentious overarching story-line that proddles on and on over half of the game's length?

Is hardcore gaming only meant for frat boys or 12 year-old boys?

Is hardcore gaming embodied in the endless quest for killing NPCs and other players?

Is hardcore gaming where you play alone against strangers on the internet in contrast to playing with other people next to you?

Please, what is this hardcore gaming bullshit you speak of?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Evil postscript......

In 2-3 years, the lawyers who will then own the remnants of different developers will start suing Sony for pricing their console so high and setting the expectations for gamers so high that the development studios could do nothing but fail.

 

[CamHostage]

{On if Haze had been on multiple platforms, could that have saved the company?}It would have sold more copies, but that's not the issue. The issue is that Haze was such a poorly dropped turd that nobody wanted to publish or continue FRD projects. Haze wouldn't have been a better game on any platform.

I would assume there's truth to that. Free Radical had that LucasArts deal in 2006 and was rumored for several years to be the team behind the third Star Wars Battlefront. It was even considered to be the worst-kept secret in gaming for most of that time. And yet, nobody ever saw it, and now it appears that it's got to be dead. I bet that deal was canceled or put on hold some time back, maybe that's why they started teasing TimeSplitters 4, to drum up support for a new deal?

 

[Shiggy]

I would assume there's truth to that. Free Radical had that LucasArts deal in 2006 and was rumored for several years to be the team behind the third Star Wars Battlefront. It was even considered to be the worst-kept secret in gaming for most of that time. And yet, nobody ever saw it, and now it appears that it's got to be dead. I bet that deal was canceled or put on hold some time back, maybe that's why they started teasing TimeSplitters 4, to drum up support for a new deal?

SW:Battlefront III is all but dead. It is now just in development at Rebellion.
And the FRD version did not look too bad...

 

[Amir0x]

What's wrong with Wii Fit? The Balance Board works great with Shawn White?

Some people, in the case of the Wii - a majority, have differing tastes from you.

And please define what real gaming is? Is it GTAIV with game mechanics out of 2001? Is it MGS4 with crappy controls, crappie camera and a tediously boring and pretentious overarching story-line that proddles on and on over half of the game's length?

Is hardcore gaming only meant for frat boys or 12 year-old boys?

Is hardcore gaming embodied in the endless quest for killing NPCs and other players?

Is hardcore gaming where you play alone against strangers on the internet in contrast to playing with other people next to you?

Please, what is this hardcore gaming bullshit you speak of?

Hardcore gaming is about not making any compromises, as best summed up. You take the good visuals with the good gameplay with the good control. You don't have to "exchange" one or the other for some indefinable end of appeasing some subset of people who have historically disliked games and been suspicious of them, and who WILL leave it when they get bored. If they come along for the ride (hello PS2!), awesome. If they don't... well, at least what's left is those who genuinely love the medium, instead of those who would crush the life out of it with excessive simplicity and stripped down ports.

That is from the get go why SOME people have had such a hard time accepting the 'goals' of Wii at face value. Focusing on gameplay is great, and is commendable. But when you ask to do that in exchange for something else, you lose. I'm not going to exchange my visual feasts and physics enhancements and scale increasements for wii motion, since traditional controls are amazing still. I'm not going to exchange my amazing integrated online for terrible infrastructure and pandering to irresponsible mommies and daddies via friend codes. If you can give me BOTH, then we can begin to talk.

I guess we have to wait for next-gen to get that, anyway, since we all know this motion sensing stuff is what will be used (hopefully of the WiiMotionPLUS variety).

Anyway this is all off-topic. We're talking about Free Radical, not whine about why Wii isn't getting games from third parties or whine about Wii not being for real gamers or fist pumping the death of a company because "they totally deserved it for not supporting my platform!" or whatever-the-fuck.

Plenty of bannings already should show this.

 

[Shiggy]

SW:Battlefront III is all but dead. It is now just in development at Rebellion.
And the FRD version did not look too bad...

LucasArts seems to hate me. First they removed the Indiana Jones assets, now they removed the SW Battlefront things...

Nevertheless, some news.

 

[BlackTyrano]

Hardcore gaming is about not making any compromises, as best summed up. You take the good visuals with the good gameplay with the good control. You don't have to "exchange" one or the other for some indefinable end of appeasing some subset of people who have historically disliked games and been suspicious of them, and who WILL leave it when they get bored. If they come along for the ride (hello PS2!), awesome. If they don't... well, at least what's left is those who genuinely love the medium, instead of those who would crush the life out of it with excessive simplicity and stripped down ports.

That is from the get go why SOME people have had such a hard time accepting the 'goals' of Wii at face value. Focusing on gameplay is great, and is commendable. But when you ask to do that in exchange for something else, you lose. I'm not going to exchange my visual feasts and physics enhancements and scale increasements for wii motion, since traditional controls are amazing still. I'm not going to exchange my amazing integrated online for terrible infrastructure and pandering to irresponsible mommies and daddies via friend codes. If you can give me BOTH, then we can begin to talk.

I guess we have to wait for next-gen to get that, anyway, since we all know this motion sensing stuff is what will be used (hopefully of the WiiMotionPLUS variety).

Anyway this is all off-topic. We're talking about Free Radical, not whine about why Wii isn't getting games from third parties or whine about Wii not being for real gamers or fist pumping the death of a company because "they totally deserved it for not supporting my platform!" or whatever-the-fuck.

Plenty of bannings already should show this.

What a laughable definition! :lol

 

[NinjaFridge]

Is it MGS4 with crappy controls, crappie camera

What? They were both great.

 

[NinjaFridge]

They are now up for sale, lets buy them GAF.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3172060

 

[le.phat]

nononononono!!! this is truly heartbreaking

 

[Vard]

They are now up for sale, lets buy them GAF.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3172060

It sounds like someone will probably buy them. Hopefully TimeSplitters and Free Radical can live on.