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[AceBandage]

We'll have see how much more powerful it will be once it is revealed, but unless it has considerably more ram, and a better CPU, I doubt it will be mind-boggling.

I wonder how many developers will get the most out of it anyway. Are they going to make new games from the ground up for the new hardware, or are they just going to port over their franchises to just another console? That's the question.

They'll continue on the multiplatform route with the PS3/360.
Then when the PS4/720 are out, they'll put those multiplatform games on the Cafe as well.
That's how the industry works now.

Can the tech heads speculate here, if the Wii2 has 4xxx series graphics card, will it be comparable to highend PCs (I'm talking 6xxx series), due to it being a closed box (not a PC), didn't the 360 use a really old GPU yet it could pump out graphics that are nearly as good as modern PCs at the time.

Basically will the Wii2 be able to pull out Battlefield 3 PC graphics

If you have a good CPU, a 4850 on a PC could probably run BF3 on Medium.

 

[Lonely1]

Why did they put in 2 GB of RAM when they say in the article that it will likely only have 1?

Strange.

Windows 7 overhead? Anyway, worthless Video. CPU clocked higher at 3.2Ghz? I don't see it. (Note: it doesn't mean the CPU won't we considerably faster than Xenon.) And that AMD they used murders Xenon.

 

[Darryl]

Sure, developers can generally get more out of console hardware than they can with comparable PC hardware, but that isn't the real issue. Microsoft and Sony's next consoles will absolutely slaughter it.

Yea, unless they make their box twice as big, twice as expensive, with watercooling or some shit, I think you have your hopes up a little bit too high.

 

[brochiller]

Unless they were only counting system memory, and not shared memory.
We have no idea, really.

I thought they made it pretty clear they were talking about system memory with the 1GB value. They stated specifically that they added an extra gig of RAM to offset the difference the OS on the PC makes. From what I gathered, I'm expecting 1.5-2 GB of total memory depending on whether or not they go with the 512MB or 1GB version of the GPU. I'm willing to bet on the 1GB version though.

 

[AceBandage]

I thought they made it pretty clear they were talking about system memory with the 1GB value. They stated specifically that they added an extra gig of RAM to offset the difference the OS on the PC makes. From what I gathered, I'm expecting 1.5-2 GB of total memory depending on whether or not they go with the 512MB or 1GB version of the GPU. I'm willing to bet on the 1GB version though.

I dunno about that. I mean, the price difference wouldn't be huge, but I'm still betting on the 512 model.

 

[leadbelly]

I wouldn't count on that. For the next consoles from MS/Sony to be produced in a cost effective manner and be power efficient, they will probably be using a newer, mid-range GPU that is on the market today. I wouldn't say anything that fits that bill will slaughter the Cafe.

I have a feeling both consoles will have DX12 GPUs.

I hope Nintendo succeed, I really do.

 

[Lonely1]

I have a feeling both consoles will have DX12 GPUs.

I hope Nintendo succeed, I really do.

2014+ release?

I dunno about that. I mean, the price difference wouldn't be huge, but I'm still betting on the 512 model.

I'm positive Cafe will use unified memory.

 

[KAL2006]

We'll have see how much more powerful it will be once it is revealed, but unless it has considerably more ram, and a better CPU, I doubt it will be mind-boggling.

I wonder how many developers will get the most out of it anyway. Are they going to make new games from the ground up for the new hardware, or are they just going to port over their franchises to just another console? That's the question.

Most likely we will get prettier ports, however I am sure there will be one or 2 developers that will try to push the Wii2 to it's limits so they can get the spotlight, maybe Nintendo will publish a 3rd or 2nd party exclusive game just like we got Gears for 360, or Killzone 2 for PS3.

As for ports there are games that can get huge benefits from extra horsepower such as Battlefield 3 and Skyrim, hell what about exclusive PC games like Witcher 2 that can come to consoles without any downgrades.

 

[antonz]

Of course games will run better on café, but according to ign it will probably only have 1GB (sounds lame...) instead of 3GB (1GB of the HD4850 and 2GB System RAM), so this should compensate a bit of the difference to a closed system.

Well based on how IGN presented it I dont think the 1GB includes the GPU ram. I mean I dont even treat my PC that way. If I did I would have over 10GB of ram

 

[brochiller]

As for ports there are games that can get huge benefits from extra horsepower such as Battlefield 3 and Skyrim, hell what about exclusive PC games like Witcher 2 that can come to consoles without any downgrades.

Starcraft 2 anybody?

 

[Darryl]

I feel like I'm about to ask a totally nub question, oh well here it goes:

Why do you think Nintendo will likely go with an AMD processor? My understanding is that the i series is far superior.

Nintendo goes way back with AMD. They've made them a fortune. They're the company that will give them the best deals and support.

 

[leadbelly]

Yea, unless they make their box twice as big, twice as expensive, with watercooling or some shit, I think you have your hopes up a little bit too high.

You see the thing is, if it's not a big step up, is it really worth it?

Traditionally, console manufactures have gone for cutting edge hardware, took a loss and hoped to make the money back through game sales. Maybe the current climate is such now that it's not really a sensible decision to do so.

The 360 and PS3 were both cutting edge at the time of their release.

 

[AceBandage]

You see the thing is, if it's not a big step up, is it really worth it?

Traditionally, console manufactures have gone for cutting edge hardware, took a loss and hoped to make the money back through game sales. Maybe the current climate is such now that it's not really a sensible decision to do so.

The 360 and PS3 were both cutting edge at the time of their release.

Yeah, and they bleed money and had a lot of technical issues...
I don't think MS and Sony want to repeat that at all...

 

[antonz]

You see the thing is, if it's not a big step up, is it really worth it?

Traditionally, console manufactures have gone for cutting edge hardware, took a loss and hoped to make the money back through game sales. Maybe the current climate is such now that it's not really a sensible decision to do so.

The 360 and PS3 were both cutting edge at the time of their release.

There has been rumblings out of Microsoft that they are ready to start making money at launch. They have their foothold in the industry and wont be pushed out.

If they do the Nintendo strategy for Xbox3 it puts Sony in a very bad position. Nintendo and Microsoft would dictate the generation game wise and Sony would be stuck with its 1st parties being the primary source of using any major leap of power they decided to take.

 

[leadbelly]

Yeah, and they bleed money and had a lot of technical issues...
I don't think MS and Sony want to repeat that at all...

Maybe not. I can see that being true.

 

[Lonely1]

You see the thing is, if it's not a big step up, is it really worth it?

Traditionally, console manufactures have gone for cutting edge hardware, took a loss and hoped to make the money back through game sales. Maybe the current climate is such now that it's not really a sensible decision to do so.

The 360 and PS3 were both cutting edge at the time of their release.

They also:

- Were big and noisy.
- Had severe reliability problems, caused by overheating.
- Lost billions of dollars.
- Were DirectX9, instead of DirectX10 that launched that year (2006).
- Were around 180w total consumption (including power brick overhead), while a current high end GPU consumes over 300w alone.

 

[bgassassin]

Well based on how IGN presented it I dont think the 1GB includes the GPU ram. I mean I dont even treat my PC that way. If I did I would have over 10GB of ram

This is a good point I didn't notice when I made one of my previous posts. I think that brings even more question to the total system memory stopping at 1GB of memory.

You see the thing is, if it's not a big step up, is it really worth it?

Traditionally, console manufactures have gone for cutting edge hardware, took a loss and hoped to make the money back through game sales. Maybe the current climate is such now that it's not really a sensible decision to do so.

The 360 and PS3 were both cutting edge at the time of their release.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27798864&postcount=912

 

[KAL2006]

2014+ release?

I really do hope MS and Sony wait it out before they jump into another gen, I still think 360 and PS3 can compete with Wii2 if Wii2 graphics isn't much better and it only gets prettier ports and Nintendo games. Why would folks drop the 360/PS3 for slightly better graphics when they can get the same multiplatform games anyway and keep their PSN/Live account and continue to have the same friendslist/acheivements and etc, why get COD on Wii2 if it will likely have a smaller online community. All Sony and MS have to do to hold off Wii2 is have price cuts and Move/Kinect bundles. If MS/Sony wait longer then there is a more chance that the graphics jump will be even greater. I think E3 2013 reveal and with a 2014 release of MS/Sony's next console would be great.

 

[leadbelly]

There has been rumblings out of Microsoft that they are ready to start making money at launch. They have their foothold in the industry and wont be pushed out.

If they do the Nintendo strategy for Xbox3 it puts Sony in a very bad position. Nintendo and Microsoft would dictate the generation game wise and Sony would be stuck with its 1st parties being the primary source of using any major leap of power they decided to take.

Considering the sort of issues both Microsoft and Sony has had this generation, I can see them playing it safe, but I just hope they don't play it too safe.

I'm sure a lot of you have seen epic's tech demo. That is the sort of graphics I really hope we'll be seeing next gen.

 

[Lonely1]

Considering the sort of issues both Microsoft and Sony has had this generation, I can see them playing it safe, but I just hope they don't play it too safe.

I'm sure a lot of you have seen epic's tech demo. That is the sort of graphics I really hope we'll be seeing next gen.

Triple 580s is not feasible for any console in the near future. Sorry.

 

[AceBandage]

Triple 580s is not feasible for any console in the near future. Sorry.

Hell, single 580s aren't even.

 

[leadbelly]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27798864&postcount=912

I've read it. As, I've already stated, I hope it isn't the case.

Triple 580s is not feasible for any console in the near future. Sorry.

They did also state that with a lot of optimising they could get it down to just one.

 

[bgassassin]

Triple 580s is not feasible for any console in the near future. Sorry.

Hell, single 580s aren't even.

Y'all act like you don't want a $700 console in the future.

 

[antonz]

I've read it. As, I've already stated, I hope it isn't the case.



They did also state that with a lot of optimising they could get it down to just one.

Through optimization they could get it down to a single card in the future. They didnt specify a single 580. It could be a single 780

 

[Lonely1]

Y'all act like you don't want a $700 console in the future.

I would buy a $700 console if it doesn't dies on me a few months after the warranty is done, like my 60GB Ps3 did.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I'd be SHOCKED if we didn't get a game close to that Samaritan tech demo next gen. With optimization, and all the fancy hardware tricks that are bound to be found with new consoles, I just don't see it not happening, from Epic in particular. Look at the type of stuff devs are squeezing out of the current gen (Uncharted 2/3, God of War 3, Killzone 2/3, Gears 2/3, RDR, Crysis 2, etc., etc.) Epic obviously went super crazy with that demo, but it can't be far off once you use some shortcuts, and actually build a game around it.

 

[bgassassin]

I would buy a $700 console if it doesn't dies on me a few months after the warranty is done, like my 60GB Ps3 did.

You're a better person than I am.

 

[leadbelly]

Through optimization they could get it down to a single card in the future. They didnt specify a single 580. It could be a single 780

"While the demo was made by only three artists, one rigger, and a number of mocap artists, it did run on three graphics cards. However, Rein stated: "We suspect that with a little bit of optimisation this could even run on a single Ti500 card" [Nirolak's Note: I'm assuming they meant a single GTX 580 since the Ti500 is from 2005."

I got the quote from these very forums as well.

 

[Lonely1]

"While the demo was made by only three artists, one rigger, and a number of mocap artists, it did run on three graphics cards. However, Rein stated: "We suspect that with a little bit of optimisation this could even run on a single Ti500 card" [Nirolak's Note: I'm assuming they meant a single GTX 580 since the Ti500 is from 2005."

I got the quote from these very forums as well.

No, he said Ti500, which means cafe (and the Orignal xbox) shouldn't have any problems!

 

[leadbelly]

No, he said Ti500, which means cafe shouldn't have any problems!

lol

You wish!

 

[bgassassin]

"While the demo was made by only three artists, one rigger, and a number of mocap artists, it did run on three graphics cards. However, Rein stated: "We suspect that with a little bit of optimisation this could even run on a single Ti500 card" [Nirolak's Note: I'm assuming they meant a single GTX 580 since the Ti500 is from 2005."

I got the quote from these very forums as well.

But it still goes back to costs for the console makers. They aren't going to go through things like this again.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2008/06/sony-loses-33-b/

 

[TUROK]

- Were DirectX9, instead of DirectX10 that launched that year (2006).
.

360 came out in 2005 and its GPU has some DX10 features. PS3 uses an OpenGL-based API.

 

[Lonely1]

360 came out in 2005 and its GPU has some DX10 features. PS3 uses OpenGL.

You know what we are referring to...

 

[TekkenMaster]

Why would you be afraid of Retro making a follow up to their best game?

Because DKCR is nowhere near their best game? Please...

 

[antonz]

"While the demo was made by only three artists, one rigger, and a number of mocap artists, it did run on three graphics cards. However, Rein stated: "We suspect that with a little bit of optimisation this could even run on a single Ti500 card" [Nirolak's Note: I'm assuming they meant a single GTX 580 since the Ti500 is from 2005."

I got the quote from these very forums as well.

Nvidia themselves have said a Single GPU solution for Samaritan wont be running on a current generation graphics card. Nvidia worked directly with Epic on doing Samaritan.

As already mentioned, the demonstration ran in real-time on a 3-Way SLI GeForce GTX 580 system, but even with the raw power that configuration affords, technological boundaries were still an issue, and for that reason, Daniel Wright, a Graphics Programmer at Epic, felt that "having access to the amazingly talented engineers at NVIDIA’s development assistance centre helped Epic push further into the intricacies of what NVIDIA’s graphics cards could do and get the best performance possible out of them.

They still had trouble with 3 580s

 

[leadbelly]

But it still goes back to costs for the console makers. They aren't going to go through things like this again.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2008/06/sony-loses-33-b/

Yeah, there's no denying both Microsoft and Sony made some bad mistakes. You wouldn't be surprised if they play it safe to some degree.

 

[McHuj]

If MS and Sony play it safe, we'll be back to the shorter life cycles for the consoles. Maybe that's ok.

Imagine if MS had only included 256 MB of ram in the Xbox. I don't think it would have the market share it does to day as the visual discrepancy between MS and Sony games would have been immense. We'd probably have a new xbox this year.

 

[leadbelly]

Nvidia themselves have said a Single GPU solution for Samaritan wont be running on a current generation graphics card. Nvidia worked directly with Epic on doing Samaritan.



They still had trouble with 3 580s

I have another quote from the Geforce website:

" could the Samaritan demo run on just one graphics card, the most common configuration in gaming computers? Epic’s Mittring believes so, but "with Samaritan, we wanted to explore what we could do with DirectX 11, so using SLI saved time."

http://www.geforce.com/#/News/artic...dia-talk-samaritan-and-the-future-of-graphics

It doesn't explicitly say a sinlge 580, but the end of the quote, "so using SLI saved time." kind of indicates that perhaps he did mean a single 580.

Do you have a quote saying otherwise?

 

[TekkenMaster]

Question for the techies....

It seems the roadblock for super-powerful consoles is excess heat.

So, which component of a console (CPU, GPU, RAM, other) generates the most heat?

 

[AniHawk]

Based on?
There's currently no tech that will slaughter a 4850, even in the PC world.
When we take it to the console world, there will be an even smaller gap, since all the high end GPUs are too power hunger to work in a console without melting.

yep. i imagine sony and microsoft won't go too crazy next gen, just so their own costs stay low on both software and hardware. gaming systems can now be that one box that does everything like they wanted. the goal is going to be selling it, which means not making systems too expensive, not making software too expensive, and making sure hardware is reliable.

 

[Vic]

Question for the techies....

It seems the roadblock for super-powerful consoles is excess heat.

So, which component of a console (CPU, GPU, RAM, other) generates the most heat?

These days, if we look at the current high-end solutions for PC, it's the GPU.

The cream of the top CPUs reaches 140w max. It's way over that with the top end GPUs.

 

[RaijinFY]

No, he said Ti500, which means cafe (and the Orignal xbox) shouldn't have any problems!

I think he was more talking about a GF550 or a 560GTX, might be wrong though.

 

[TekkenMaster]

These days, if we look at the current high-end solutions for PC, it's the GPU.

Xbox720 and PS4 could then conceivably have more powerful CPUs and more RAM than Cafe, but perhaps a very similarly-powered GPU.

Assuming 720 and PS4 release in December 2013, how much more powerful overall would they likely be compared to Cafe?

 

[leadbelly]

This quote is actually from the same article:

As already mentioned, the demonstration ran in real-time on a 3-Way SLI GeForce GTX 580 system, but even with the raw power that configuration affords, technological boundaries were still an issue, and for that reason, Daniel Wright, a Graphics Programmer at Epic, felt that "having access to the amazingly talented engineers at NVIDIA’s development assistance centre helped Epic push further into the intricacies of what NVIDIA’s graphics cards could do and get the best performance possible out of them.

It doesn't actually say what the technological boundaries actually were.

 

[bgassassin]

Xbox720 and PS4 could then conceivably have more powerful CPUs and more RAM than Cafe, but perhaps a very similarly-powered GPU.

Assuming 720 and PS4 release in December 2013, how much more powerful overall would they likely be compared to Cafe?

I haven't kept up on the latest pc tech like I used to, but I would assume a release that early would be like comparing the 360 to the PS3, maybe a slightly bigger difference.

 

[TekkenMaster]

Just watched the Samaritan demo for the first time.

I'm unimpressed...just more greys and browns with better lighting.

I want to see what something with the art style of Metroid Prime or Mirror's Edge would look like with that kind of power behind it.

Also, I can see Epic STILL can't handle long hair. If they could they would've shown it off.

 

[BuggyDClown]

If MS and Sony play it safe, we'll be back to the shorter life cycles for the consoles. Maybe that's ok.

Imagine if MS had only included 256 MB of ram in the Xbox. I don't think it would have the market share it does to day as the visual discrepancy between MS and Sony games would have been immense. We'd probably have a new xbox this year.

RAM is so dirt cheap. There is no reason to blow away the old amounts. 2-4GB should be expected. 4 GB at 1333mhz would be ideal by 2013 and super cheap. I can get 8GB of 1333mhz ram for under 90$ and 4GB for round 40$ so there is no reason why in 2.5 years by late 2013 they can support half of that in the consoles for next to nothing.

 

[TekkenMaster]

RAM is so dirt cheap. There is no reason to blow away the old amounts. 2-4GB should be expected. 4 GB at 1333mhz would be ideal by 2013 and super cheap. I can get 8GB of 1333mhz ram for under 90$ and 4GB for round 40$ so there is no reason why in 2.5 years by late 2013 they can support half of that in the consoles for next to nothing.

So why is Nintendo (rumored) to be going with only 512-1GB of RAM? Are they *that* cheap and short-sighted? 2GB would future proof them so much more.

 

[AceBandage]

So why is Nintendo (rumored) to be going with only 512-1GB of RAM? Are they *that* cheap and short-sighted? 2GB would future proof them so much more.

Added cost is added cost to a company.
It doesn't matter if you can get it for just a few dollars more.
When that's spread out over million of units, it adds up.
Not saying it's right, just saying it is what it is.

Actually, what Jin said.
v

 

[Nirolak]

Just watched the Samaritan demo for the first time.

I'm unimpressed...just more greys and browns with better lighting.

I want to see what something with the art style of Metroid Prime or Mirror's Edge would look like with that kind of power behind it.

Also, I can see Epic STILL can't handle long hair. If they could they would've shown it off.

This game (Alice: Madness Returns) runs off of Unreal Engine 3: