Yep, because AF makes no difference in IQ and is only noticable with razor sharp eyes./s
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PS4's AF issue we need answers!
- Thread starter pixlexic
- Start date
Yep, because AF makes no difference in IQ and is only noticable with razor sharp eyes./s
iceatcs
Junior Member
Of course it is SDK issue. I know it would be uncope or nice to hear for some if it was some hardware problem.
If last gen have x16 AF then it is very unlikely coming from hardware. Especially it is not the first time, near all of Mac games don't have AF working with high end Nvidia GPUs, but it got better in last few years.
If last gen have x16 AF then it is very unlikely coming from hardware. Especially it is not the first time, near all of Mac games don't have AF working with high end Nvidia GPUs, but it got better in last few years.
You could try Google. Look what I found. With the exception of F1 2012 it shows barely any difference between the Dual Channel and the Quad Channel set up and even then you are talking 6% on frame rates that are already > 100 FPS.
It is not like specs on PC use actual numbers but the specs in the console are theoretical numbers to make cross comparisons difficult. They both use theoretical numbers so you can compare like for like as actual bandwidth efficiency is likely to be the same (with the exception of Tonga).
Use an APU that shares its memory bandwidth with the CPU. So something like the A10-7800. Look at the skyrim results here. Going from High + 8xAF to Ultra + 16xAF dropped the average frame rate from 34FPS to 26FPS. How much is from AF and how much is from the increased detail settings we don't know so it is not 100% conclusive but it gives a definite indication that AF is not that harmful to performance even when it is on a very low bandwidth memory which is shared with the CPU.
On a hardware level it does work the same as any PC using an APU but with beefier specifications.
boredandlazy
Member
Just like resolution.
geordiemp
Member
Digital foundry could run frame rate tests again on Ps4 Dying light pre and post patch and see if they can detect maybe a 1 FPS difference or not.
I think most people would believe there would be nothing to see,....
I think the problem is some devs being too lazy PORTING their games and only spending time on the system they primarily code for. It is lazy devs but not as we would normally think it.
Has any game missed AF where ps4 was lead platform....doubt it.
I think most people would believe there would be nothing to see,....
I think the problem is some devs being too lazy PORTING their games and only spending time on the system they primarily code for. It is lazy devs but not as we would normally think it.
Has any game missed AF where ps4 was lead platform....doubt it.
hooijdonk17
Member
It ends when the IQ is where it should be, please don't pull the entitled consumers card..
Different camera angles will confuse the results, in DL you can tell he's crouched to look at it. Definitely looks like 8x to me, such an improvement though. Everyone should be happy!
Cyborg
Member
Sure......Dying Light is good enough for me after the patch. For me its there where it should be
Cyborg is talking about people moving goalposts. The initial intention of the OP was to specifically question if PS4 is even capable of AF.
Just like resolution.
So now each side of the fence now has something!
If it has no problems (tin foil time), then maybe "they" don't want us to become accustomed to expecting AF, because some reason down the line they think that it will be something harder to implement across the board without sacrificing in other departments. What I'm saying is really broad and vague but I'm trying to see what logical reason there could be for not implementing something, that seems on the surface, from the bit I've read, like it should be implementable. :/
hooijdonk17
Member
Doubt it's anything even remotely conspirical (is that even a word?); it's just lazy devving and poor QA.
Dictator93
Member
Images like this show that it is likely not 16x , but 4x would be decidably worse. The best way to tell would be to line up PC shots at the same area with different AF settings on.
I am betting on 8x.
geordiemp
Member
Images like this show that it is likely not 16x , but 4x would be decidably worse. The best way to tell would be to line up PC shots at the same area with different AF settings on.
I am betting on 8x.
Its a non issue now isn't it when we are pixel staring and scratching heads.
Its the bad examples like DMC that deserve our Scorn.
I don't think anybody ever questioned whether it was capable since most games outside of the handful in the OP have it. I think the main point was why do those games in particular not have it when the XB1 and PS3 versions do. A lot of people turned that into the idea that bandwidth is a problem for the PS4 wishfully convinced that there is a hardware problem; Completely ignoring the fact that there are games that do, even games like sniper elite that have far better AF on PS4 than XB1and PS3. It was kind of funny that midway through this thread Dying Light got a patch that fixed AF though. KKRT00s idea of the topic went from "PS4 doesn't have enough bandwidth compared to the XB1" to "it's 4x, lol people who think consoles are good". I don't think anybody in this thread made the suggestion that consoles are now equal to PCs and his downplaying of the improved AF is laughable.
pixlexic, if you are reading this maybe the OP needs to be updated to remove Dying light and add DMC.
It's a static picture. It's easier to notice once you begin to move around the environment.
It's the exact opposite actually. When you move around it becomes far less visible especially with motion blur effects. It is an issue though.
flipswitch
Member
Hope the UK gets that Dying Light patch soon, looks great. We're still on 1.02
I think someone said we get it on the 14th.
Titles that use known engines (like UE3) seem to exhibit the problem far more than ones with in house engines.
That would tend to point toward the engine used and lack of time/ not lead platform to spend on optimizing the PS4 version.
Imo it all points (as I've said before) to the DX-> OpenGl conv tool.
If that tool is part of the SDK, then the SDK is partly responsible ( and the dev for not taking the time to manually correct it), but it could also come with the engine it seems to me, as again the problem is
a) present on a small minority of titles
b) seems to be prevalent on some engines like UE3 and chrome 6
Seems plausible enough. I reckon if it is something like this it would be good if Sony could work the SDK to make conversion from DirectX easier however I'd see the onus sitting with the developer/engine developer as you note. First and foremost if the chose to release on PS4 they need to ensure they develop to the console accordingly vs relying on SDK conversion tools solely.
For me, the main head scratcher in all of this and the one thing that blows a lot of theories out of the water is the lack of AF on the Unifished Swan when compared to the PS3 version.
- Not UE3
- A Sony game, so no resources being put into X1 over the PS4 (if that is a thing)
- Doesn't apear to be a graphically demanding game (?)
I mean is the port of that game such a rush job that even one of Sony's own IP's is lacking AF / didnt have time to implement?
Maybe this is whats holding up the PS4 release of Journey. They trying to get that damn AF working!
- Not UE3
- A Sony game, so no resources being put into X1 over the PS4 (if that is a thing)
- Doesn't apear to be a graphically demanding game (?)
I mean is the port of that game such a rush job that even one of Sony's own IP's is lacking AF / didnt have time to implement?
Maybe this is whats holding up the PS4 release of Journey. They trying to get that damn AF working!
travisbickle
Member
In the Dying Light case, with AF coming in a patch, it's like the devs aren't even checking if the code they are using runs correctly on the PS4. I kind of expect 3rd parties not to push the console, but not double checking settings to see if they work?
I think these "lazy devs" insults towards people are completely uncalled for, especially as we still do not know the reason behind it.
So who is it then? Devs themselves?
unfinished Swan is also a port from PS3, so who knows what happened there?
We re going to need devs to chime in on these game to know more at this point...
Dictator93
Member
Actually we still couldn't possibly know. There is no crow to be eaten.
Techland are able to patch in at least 4x AF, this has nothing to do with the hardware.
Dictator93
Member
I think everyone was positive it was not a "hardware problem" but rather some interfacing with the SDK / API. Which puts the problem either on the dev side for not being thorough and/or Sony for not exposing the control sufficiently.
Edit: the fact the games do not ship on xb1 with the AF accidentally missing points to something being different on Sony's platform confuddling the issue. Either how it is presented or how they point devs on how to implement it.
GamerMax73
Member
I'm trying to get worked up of this whole AF issue but, sorry, all I got is - meh? Not sure if it's had its own thread (probably deserves it) but this thread just made me think of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiogSjppLlI&index=2&list=PLpg6WLs8kxGOhyea5rpa-uhJd1lHR-GjW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiogSjppLlI&index=2&list=PLpg6WLs8kxGOhyea5rpa-uhJd1lHR-GjW
Lostconfused
Member
Actually its perfectly obvious and clear where the issue is. If you look at the top left corner of the circled area you can see how the tile pattern turns into an unrecognizable blob. Maybe it's a non issue for you.
We know that the issue doesn't exist in the hardware or the sdk according to the ICE team member. We know that only some games run into the issue.
What else could it be if not intentionally cutting corners and providing a compromised experience in order to hit an arbitrary deadline? It's exactly the worst case scenario some feared when it seemed that developers would spend their resources optimizing for the weaker machine seeing as how a passable product could be quickly ported to the other.
If that isn't laziness and taking us for fucking granted then I'm a bearded gnome.
I think he means that it goes from being a travesty to an annoyance that only affects those with the inclination to look that deep for the flaws. If one has to stare to argue the specifics, then is it really as widespread an issue (for that game) as it was previously? My thinking is no.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Of course. They have engine leads and graphics leads. Ultimately the game director is the guy running things.
It looks like a variable AF solution to me. Between 4x and 8x. This is probably the best it's going to get this gen with graphically rich games and frankly, it's Not that deep for me.
Images like this show that it is likely not 16x , but 4x would be decidably worse. The best way to tell would be to line up PC shots at the same area with different AF settings on.
I am betting on 8x.
travisbickle
Member
I should have expanded because I don't think dev are lazy, I believe that management have found the perfect way to save money "optimise on the One then port it straight across to PS4 because it's more powerful ... shazam, done, we can bring the release date forward and we don't even have to put it through QA twice!"
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. There is AF now, that was the discussion. AF isn't à magic bullet, high res textures placed in very few pixels is always going to be an issue. You also have compression artifacts doing most of the damage to the screenshot IQ.
DistortionOfReality
Member
Is this some kind of wind-up? surely this isn't a thing anyone can actually notice while playing a game rather than staring at an inscrutable corner of one screenshot from a game?
Unless of course you have both consoles set up side by side, playing simultaneously with 4 arms, shouting 'HAH I knew it!' when you spot a slight blur. Then I guess this is a totally valid complaint.
Calling devs 'lazy' because of this total non-issue is just crazy.
Unless of course you have both consoles set up side by side, playing simultaneously with 4 arms, shouting 'HAH I knew it!' when you spot a slight blur. Then I guess this is a totally valid complaint.
Calling devs 'lazy' because of this total non-issue is just crazy.
geordiemp
Member
My point was the latest 1.05 patch for Dying light is now a non issue for me, for this game...yes.
geordiemp
Member
No. DMC is selling a definitive edition which looks worse than the Ps3 version / 360 version many of us have, because of the missing AF.
Do you think that is acceptable to us, a game how many years old releasing a DEFINATIVE version which has worse texture IQ ?
Yes its bloody lazy and bordering on incompetent.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
It's not "lazy" not to use AF instead of trilinear filtering, because AF takes no effort to enable/disable. I am also a bit skeptical on the DX->OpenGL conversion theory, even though it is possible.
My two theories:
1.) UE specific: UE (and other engines) have different filtering defaults for XB1 and PS4 seeing that there are two different APIs. If a developer doesn't know about it, he doesn't flip the switch on the PS4 and he never needed to flip the switch on the XB1.
2.) XB1-DX vs. libgnm: Developer's exist which have more experience with DX than with GNM. Maybe they just know how to enable AF immediately with DX and not with GNM. Before shipping they forget to enable it.
It's not "lazy" not to use AF instead of trilinear filtering, because AF takes no effort to enable/disable. I am also a bit skeptical on the DX->OpenGL conversion theory, even though it is possible.
My two theories:
1.) UE specific: UE (and other engines) have different filtering defaults for XB1 and PS4 seeing that there are two different APIs. If a developer doesn't know about it, he doesn't flip the switch on the PS4 and he never needed to flip the switch on the XB1.
2.) XB1-DX vs. libgnm: Developer's exist which have more experience with DX than with GNM. Maybe they just know how to enable AF immediately with DX and not with GNM. Before shipping they forget to enable it.
Just like how tearing is noticeable to some, lack and/of low AF can be rather noticeable, especially to those who games in bed. RIP Retro.
Still, devs should notice the lack of AF in their own games. They probably just ignored the fact.
4x AF still means PS4 and Xbox One have issues with AF. You shouldn't have to use low AF in 2015 unless there's a problem with high values of AF, I've been saying this for days now.
That said, Dying Light seems closer to 8x imo, and is indeed a major leap from the prepatch shots. I'd be ok if that was the standard.
Can we please all organize ourselves to ask Ninja Theory to patch that crap ?
Cause i don't feel like harassing them alone ;D .