It does have a pretty big Gaf thread. I wouldn't say it is a game changer, but it is a step in the right direction.
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Publishers who passed on female-lead Life is Strange "hope it changes the industry"
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
It does have a pretty big Gaf thread. I wouldn't say it is a game changer, but it is a step in the right direction.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I've heard people say amazeballs and awesomesauce though. Never hella. Maybe it's more common in that area.
Green Card
Member
You and me both.
I'm guessing around the hundreds of thousands mark somewhere. The point of the format of this kind of game is that you can make a story-based game with decent graphics while not having to worry about a budget that's too large.
Edit: Apparently, Telltale sold 28 million episodes around July last year from two seasons of Walking Dead. Taking into account each episode, it's about an average of 2.5 million sales an episode(I wonder if the free first episode counts?). More than a million per episode for 'Life is Strange' would probably be great.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Yeah, I think it's important to remember that a lot of this type of language is regional.
Karspankey
Banned
Firewatch, to me, has super good dialogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5lyHZIzW8A
Maybe it's just the voice acting, but the dialogue just seems super real to me.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
So these people are giving respect now that the game is successful, but when it came to being approached, they weren't trying to fuck with it?
Trifling.
It only seems like Western publishers have a problem with female leads as Japanese publishers release games with them all the time.
Trifling.
It only seems like Western publishers have a problem with female leads as Japanese publishers release games with them all the time.
Hella is definitely more of a west coast thing. All I can really think about when I hear someone say it is the No Doubt song
Conflict NZ
Member
I'm so happy that Life is Strange exists. I've had shooter fatigue for the last three years but they still seem to dominate gaming, just having something completely different, original and more slice of life is refreshing and pulled me back from stopping playing games all together.
Hella is very much a Northern California thing. When I moved to LA people knew right away I was from NorCal because I said hella.
My first thought was "muthafuckas, YOU hold the keys to change in the industry, and NOW you're talking about how you hope this game you passed on changes it? GTFOOHWTB"
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Awesome. Maybe they'll be more willing to take a chance on this kind of stuff in the future.
LurkerPrime
Member
It's not that far fetched to believe that businessmen in charge of greenlighting derivative garbage scoff at the thought of greenlighting an untested, original IP. Just imagine, they are approached by Dontnod and then they glance at their newest graph of "what sells," then turn Dontnod down because few, if any, female-led games reach the numbers or demographics they want. If you'll notice, things probably haven't changed between the releases of Remember Me and now Life is Strange.
Haha, bang on. Exactly what was coming to mind. These perfect back of the box quotes that just keep happening in real life somehow.
What has made it all the more eye-narrowing, is that they tried the exact same thing with Remember Me:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/20/publishers-rejected-remember-me-because-of-female-lead/
We get more phantom publisher villains that turned it down because of the female protag (never mind it was ditched ultimately by Sony coz it wasn't turning out too good) and even an added homophobic layer to that nameless, perfect villain. Please buy Remember Me, show them they're wrong.
Couple years on, no longer batting for Capcom, we get the exact same soundbytes for Life Is Strange. Now, see, there aren't actually that many publishers even left in the game these days, fewer still that don't have a female protag game of their own to point to. Now SquareEnix is the only pub with the balls to greenlight this female protag game, and its all boiled down to that easy "oh it wont sell becoz female" villainy angle again on all other pubs. Nevermind the "well, your last game sold like shit/played fairly shit so its probably a pass for us" reasoning, that don't make for the sweet positive 'diversity in games' PR interview. Now we have these past sinners showing repentance and hoping Dontnod change the industry.
The 'if it sounds like personal career fanfiction' bells, they are a'ringing.
Most publishers really are that shallow. Being risk-averse and derivative is how they do their job. Or else, y'know, you're right! Dontnod is manipulating the media to sell their games because their style of games are so hard to sell. Right
Believe it.
Now I'll be honest, that's the best line I heard in a video game in the last couple of months.
exmachina64
Banned
I would have loved to play that game because it's different than typical games, but I can't see the industry not sexualizing an Asian female assassin.
It's changing, albeit slowly. Call of Duty's numbers keep declining and Battelfield: Hardline's numbers seem to be an unmitigated disaster for EA (recently 50% off).
That combined with the dwindling number of AAA (military) shooter franchises is probably a sign the industry is searching for a new trend on which to latch. Or they'll try to consolidate their eggs into ever fewer baskets and play up cinematic experiences, but I'm not sure how much more "EPIC" a AAA cinematic experience can become. (See Hardline's single player campaign.)
ShinMaruku
Member
When you get into a suit's head space thinking like that would come as no surprise.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I would wager them releasing a new entry every year has become the reason why shooters are getting declining numbers now. It was gonna bite them hard eventually.
DoktorEvil
Banned
It fits Victoria hella well too!
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Ah I see.
michaelius
Banned
I don't want to play devil's advocate but it's also important who is asking.
If studio with perfect track record and plenty of succesfull games asked to make new IP with "risky" hero they would have higher chances.
Otherwise it's just stacking risk upon risk in eyes of publisher.
And Dontnod last game bombed.
If studio with perfect track record and plenty of succesfull games asked to make new IP with "risky" hero they would have higher chances.
Otherwise it's just stacking risk upon risk in eyes of publisher.
And Dontnod last game bombed.
Original Tomb Raider's voluptuous visual assets and naked exploding cheat code troll aside, her character was strong, sassy and empowering, compared to the modern Lara who, yes got normal proportions but lost a good deal of that personality to become a "weak" person who you wanted to save... Or protect, or whatwver the fuck that sgitty quote was in the builsup to Tomb Raider's release.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I still find it hilarious people bring up the modern Lara is weak and needs protecting argument.
She's a stone cold mass murderer...
She's not even portrayed as weak or needing protection in the game. Vulnerable for a few brief moments? Sure, but she's all business apart from those few moments.
I'm sure as the character grows in Rise, we'll see more of her original traits return...
She's a stone cold mass murderer...
She's not even portrayed as weak or needing protection in the game. Vulnerable for a few brief moments? Sure, but she's all business apart from those few moments.
I'm sure as the character grows in Rise, we'll see more of her original traits return...
I found her portrayal to be schizophrenic, they wanted her to be weak, innocent and vulnerable, she never shot a man in her life before and this is her first adventure then she proceeds to slaughter an entire army like it was nothing. I understand they had to do so for gameplay purposes but it really weakened the story for me. Same with Far Cry 3, the lead was portrayed as a backpack travelling pot head afraid of his own shadow only to turn into Rambo in less than 10 minutes. They could've handled character growth differently.
At least in the original Tomb Raider she was already established as a badass so her killing bad guys was a given.
family_guy
Member
That lasted for probably less than an hour or two in game time. Anyway it was intended as an origin story.
A main character that loves to talk a lot. That's why it's noticeable. I had to convince myself this took place in some alternate universe where that type of dialogue was common.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I'd agree with this, but let's not forget it was intended to be her origin story. The moment she goes from intrepid adventurer to mass murdering antihero.
The idea being that she always had that potential and only realised when thrust into the situation of kill or be killed. It's more a look at the human psyche and what can be achieved and rationalised when you're forced in such a situation.
She's constantly pushing herself forward, constantly rationalising murder after murder by seeing it through a lenses of wanting to save her 'family'...
Haha, bang on. Exactly what was coming to mind. These perfect back of the box quotes that just keep happening in real life somehow.
What has made it all the more eye-narrowing, is that they tried the exact same thing with Remember Me:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/20/publishers-rejected-remember-me-because-of-female-lead/
We get more phantom publisher villains that turned it down because of the female protag (never mind it was ditched ultimately by Sony coz it wasn't turning out too good) and even an added homophobic layer to that nameless, perfect villain. Please buy Remember Me, show them they're wrong.
Couple years on, no longer batting for Capcom, we get the exact same soundbytes for Life Is Strange. Now, see, there aren't actually that many publishers even left in the game these days, fewer still that don't have a female protag game of their own to point to. Now SquareEnix is the only pub with the balls to greenlight this female protag game, and its all boiled down to that easy "oh it wont sell becoz female" villainy angle again on all other pubs. Nevermind the "well, your last game sold like shit/played fairly shit so its probably a pass for us" reasoning, that don't make for the sweet positive 'diversity in games' PR interview. Now we have these past sinners showing repentance and hoping Dontnod change the industry.
The 'if it sounds like personal career fanfiction' bells, they are a'ringing.
I'm glad I'm not the only one.
I really doubt that a publisher would see the concept of Life is Strange on paper and think "This would sell more with a male lead character" before they thought "Yeah, we have no interest in publishing the game because of you and Remember Me".
Every time I hear them talk about it it seems like a manufactured triumph.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I've heard hella used before. Same with awesomesauce.
I guess it depends on the age group you're exposed to on a regular basis.
The developers of the Witcher games, CD Projekt RED had the opposite problem - publishers were like :"yeah, Geralt is cool, but the main character should be a female elf"
I really like Life is Strange so far.. overall a far better game than anything Telltale have ever released - even my beloved TWAU..
The story, tone, charaters and some neat gameplay elements are all great and the artstyle is fantastic.. only the dialog in the game looks like the writters were:"hmmm, how do modern kids talk right now? let's look on some comment section on the internet, for example on Youtube"
I really like Life is Strange so far.. overall a far better game than anything Telltale have ever released - even my beloved TWAU..
The story, tone, charaters and some neat gameplay elements are all great and the artstyle is fantastic.. only the dialog in the game looks like the writters were:"hmmm, how do modern kids talk right now? let's look on some comment section on the internet, for example on Youtube"
Of course she's stone cold murdering get down to business girl... She is subserviant to my controller... Except when hiding behind cover.
It felt like outside of the gameplay segments, she was either about to burst out in tears, needed encouragement that "she was a Croft" or bailed out by someone else through most of the game, it really felt like the developers were trying to evoke emotions with a more vulnerable Lara. >_>
Fuck yes please. I'd just want to see how they pull it off. Would be amazing and pretty refreshing.
Brerlappin
Member
I dont care if im playing as a Female or Male in a game, (i spent most of yesterday playing as DJ Skully in Killing Floor 2 and Neptune in HyperDimension Neptunia...) but honestly just thought LIS was a pretty dull telltale-esque adventure game sans puzzles nogame with a 2emo4u high school story. Nothing to do with the protagonist at all but the game just didnt appeal to me whatsoever. I liked Remember me and thought Nilin was pretty cool tho, so good luck to them, dont see it revolutionizing the industry tho. Its just simply not a good enough game for that.
I get it's an origin story, but they could have made her an overconfident dick taken down a peg or two with the situation at hand, overall it was not an engaging narrative for an origin story with the direction they took nevermind for the character that we know is Lara Croft.
exmachina64
Banned
I think it's a safe bet the large publishers didn't learn this lesson.
SuperDowns
Banned
Is it..... doing well? I hear no one talking about it...
DoktorEvil
Banned
The game design/gameplay of Tomb Raider and the story didn't make sense wholesale.
I would've been okay with Lara being an overconfident and cocky archaeologist, not appearing to be fearful of
near rape
SolidSnakex
Member
It's doing well as a digital game. Square's president visited Dontnot and congratulated them on its performance.
Chû Totoro
Member
No they weren't scared back then. It's just that the way female are represented in games is now something more looked at. And regarding the bad representation in a lot of games (not only for women though) it's now a problem.
I'm clearly asking just for more freedom here. Let the creators express their creativity how they want and we'll have a wide variety of stories and characters. Some will be good, some will be bad, some disturbing, some disgusting, some insulting... it doesn't matter. §If we want video games to be recognise as an art more than a media then we have to be more open minded. So presence of women is essential but representing women the way some think it's the best is bad. Like asking for a black person in every movie is dumb... I find nothing more insulting than seeing the average black dude in a movie or a TV show just to be sure that quotas are ok or just to be sure not to piss some associations who are trying too hard.
But yeah in this particular case it's a good thing (dev seemed to want a female lead character from the start).
It's a non-sexualised female Lead.
That's whats putting them off, and I'm glad they've been proven wrong. Life is Strange is great
Stone Ocean
Member
Focus groups bullcrap
I don't think they are afraid of female protagonists so much as they fear one's that are not over sexualized. Either way they need to wake up and realize their incorrect assumptions.
How are so many of these top people at such companies so out of touch?
Gaming is a unique medium that transports us to all kinds of different universes. As a man, I appreciate the opportunity to play a game with a female protagonist, not only for the reason that Lara was a woman in the first Tomb Raider--guys would rather look at a woman's bum--but because it can provide a different perspective and provide an escape even further from my own reality.
It's long past time publishers realized their audience is no longer strictly 14-year-old boys. It's maturing men and a lot of women, too.
Gaming is a unique medium that transports us to all kinds of different universes. As a man, I appreciate the opportunity to play a game with a female protagonist, not only for the reason that Lara was a woman in the first Tomb Raider--guys would rather look at a woman's bum--but because it can provide a different perspective and provide an escape even further from my own reality.
It's long past time publishers realized their audience is no longer strictly 14-year-old boys. It's maturing men and a lot of women, too.
I think "kill after kill" would be more accurate and less loaded, in terms of Tomb Raider 2013. Character progression in that game may border on simplistic, but having a character progress over the course of a game at all is noteworthy in the first place, even if the events feel contrived. I'd say a colony of people, organized almost like a cult, with a culture of normalized murder (and worse) trying to capture/kill your group is a pretty reasonable grounds to kill in a survival setting.
Honestly, having Lara and the other female survivors as more than window-dressing in that story setting is part of the path to integrating women into modern game-making. Lara butting heads with Joslin over the survivor group's leadership (and the realizations about her daughter's parentage) was an interesting side-story to what was happening on the island.
RipperGrim
Member
Dude I completely agree, the writing was so good and believable I mean the fact that he chose to spontaneously sing Toto's Africa has me imagining what kind of guy he is and puts more character in him than a lot of characters in other games.
I also think it's important to know that there were some cases in the beginning of the game where Lara would try to talk to the guys trying to kill her if you hid behind cover and didn't engage first, they would go for the kill first every time, so the killing makes sense to me, I just wish that they made the enemies fewer but a lot harder to kill.