Renegade Frost
Banned
The idea of white identity really is a funny belief
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Reflecting on why Hillary Clinton lost
- Thread starter Exile20
- Start date
The idea of white identity really is a funny belief
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Even Donald Trump's agrees with you.
that section of the michael moore post really was something else. can't believe how on the money he was.
Most people don't have the elite background of Clinton. By comparison, Trump seemed like a bumbling idiot that we all are, we all have said/done something we regret(though I doubt Trump regrets anything he did). You've just got to ignored the part about him inheriting a lot of money from his father, then he's just a average human, just like us, with our flaws and tendency to walk into woman's changing room, and grabbing kitties without consent, because that's what we do when we are famous.
At least that's how I take it when people say that "Trump is easily to connect to", Hillary is almost perfect, at least her image, that is just too common to see in politicians campaigning for presidency or otherwise. However, on the other side, we have a literal idiot that struggling to keep his image positive.
At the end, I blame the DNC for screwing my Bernie, that probably made quite a few people voted Trump just to spite them.
dottme
Member
A lot of people on GAF should read this.
I kinda get what youn mean. The hilarious thing about that is that, by all accounts, the MAGA catchphrase was something invented by Bannon.
The One and Done
Member
She lostb because she ran. She will NEVER be President no matter how much she wants it. She's unelectable
Renegade Frost
Banned
Policy is extremely important
Everything that comes out of Trump's mouth is a policy, however incoherent it is.
20 years ago Libertarians were just seen as selfish conservatives with an anti-governent bent.
Now they're a bonafide movement.
We gotta watch out for these folks, you give them an inch and they grow an empire.
Where did the whole white and black thing come from by the way?
Like people actually enjoy being called white lol. There are some people who've been triggered because I said I'd only call them Caucasians and I don't know why they're so invested in that idea of identity. Too much power to let go?
I sorta think the DNC is in a hard spot with this. They want to court the young, millennial, super-liberal vote, but those kids just weren't the type to get on the bandwagon and cheer for someone. So instead they wound up with a bunch of kids running around online sharing this "well, she's not my first choice, but I guess I'll vote for her" which is just a fucking losing campaign.
But the DNC just did a really fucking awful job marketing. They always do.
Hillary was born to an upper middle class family in Chicago. I think you'd be hard pressed to call her background "elite".
JinjoUnchained
Member
That's his conclusion? Hah, no. Those are all secondary factors.
The better explanation is that most voters are low information voters and make their decisions based upon what their peers are doing, the candidates' physical appearance, and perhaps a wedge issue or two. Seriously, studies have shown that candidates with angular looking faces poll better than those with rounder looking faces.
Hillary lost for the same reason as Al Gore. They're both policy wonks who look phony when they try to do retail politics. Sounds superficial, but that's really how many voters look at it. Clinton, Dubya, and Obama, OTOH, look like the proverbial "guy you'd want to get a beer with".
Who wants to get a beer with Bob Dole or John Kerry? That's why Hillary lost.
Renegade Frost
Banned
CBS is trash, that company is terrible.
Not me lol.
I think I would have gotten a lashing if I could have said anything tho, given the climate here at the time
That's elite to a lot of us in the working class man.
I mean, it was pretty obvious to anyone who wasnt in the Pro-Clinton Camp at the time.
You actually talked to people who werent hardline democrats and it became even clearer.
At the time it was really hard to get my parents to vote for Bernie in the Primary because the whole Bernie-Bro rhetoric the media was running with really made him seem unelectable to people who were the base of the democratic party. I was wiling to push him because he had the number
And no matter how you slice it, Black folks arent the majority of this country, we know this ourselves. Alot of people weren't even going to push Obama if he hadnt shown he could court the majority during his time. Speaking of which, what Ms Clinton and her supporters did during the primaries of 2008 really was unforgivable. Sad to see those same peope tanked the chances for the party moving forward in 2016. I hate PUMAs.
God Dayumm
Banned
I still can't see what is likeable about Trump and why would I have a beer with him. All other presidents? hell yeah. But I honestly don't see what is charismatic about Trump, he looks more phony to me than Hillary. But that's just me
Renegade Frost
Banned
He's what the average american wants to be.
A complete and total know nothing, lazy douchebag who somehow gets wealthy when he's banging hookers. An unreliable person who's never held accountable for anything they do
Just look at the Jeff Bezos thread for the deets lmao.
Dude Abides
Banned
The reason it doesn't make sense is because there's no good reason that people in low population states should be overrepresented (not equal representation as you erroneously assert) relative to people in high population states.
More like a victim of her own hubris. She ran an awful campaign. There's no way around it.
Unknown Soldier
Member
http://www.npr.org/2016/09/14/49392...race-clinton-screws-up-everything-with-hubris
Colin Powell said:
From one of his leaked emails. It was obviously meant to be a private communication.
Except the entire point of the US Senate is also to give those rural voters a voice. And the house is gerrymandered to high hell to also give them extra voice at this point. There's really no need to give them even more say in what the president also does.
But even if we did need to, the point of the EC was to try and find candidates who could appeal to everyone (which is a dumb, impossible goal in and of itself). Instead we've still just got candidates that only appeal to rural areas and candidates that only appeal to urban ones. If we really wanted to force the president to have near universal appeal, we'd do better to just force some "You must win that majority/60% of the vote to win" condition (and then we'd basically just be giving up on the office, which frankly, might be a better idea as well).
Renegade Frost
Banned
where did the video go?
Cow Mengde
Banned
Hopefully Comey will get his due for interfering with the election, too. Sure he was investigating Trump, but he was basically doing the same thing. He needs to go down as well.
While that's ridiculous in some senses (being born into wealth et al), it's not wholly ridiculous. Trump might be economically as far apart from the typical American as can be, in terms of his sensibilities he has far more in common with the typical American than people generally care to admit. This is a president who gets his information in the same way that many of his voters do (TV), who speaks in simple language, who takes complex issues and presents them as simple, who has what would often be called an unrefined taste in art and so on and so forth.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Lmao.
MetalGearZed said:
There were probably 3 big reasons Hillary lost that didn't revolve around partisanship and sexism.
#1 reason is that major critiques levied against her i.e. electoral strategy, her political record, donations, and so on were dismissed as claims without merit. Reality was legitimate criticisms.
#2 was that she boxed herself in trying to talk up the good of the status quo/establishment/Obama legacy while dismissing and understating problems other candidates were raising. She was a staunch defender of the system and existing law yet also a real change candidate who knows how to get things done. In other words, everything is good and I can fix everything that's wrong. A total mess.
If things were as fantastic as she and her team of surrogates suggested, then candidates like Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders wouldn't have been able to gain traction.
Finally #3 is that the overall story that she tried to peddle about her candidacy was phony. The idea that folks like Hillary Clinton and those in her orbit are going to go out of their way to make your life better is such an obvious lie. They're in all likelihood going to enrich themselves and ruin your life by way of their ideology instead.
Hillary Clinton and her team represented credentialed intellectuals who offer an opinion on a major issue, get it spectacularly dead wrong then pretend like it never happened. This group (of mostly affluent whites) admire and schmooze with the worst in business rather than the folks trying to do the right thing in an environment where bad ethics drives out those doing good. They fail their way up. They suggest there's no alternative other than what they think.
Look at America over the last 40 years or so. It's truly sad stuff and the results speak for themselves. There's no way the people who rigged the system and couldn't care less about you are going to get you to where you want to be. They're only in it to enrich themselves and keep things the way they are. That's why folks like Trump and Sanders had to come along and turn over the apple cart in order to make America great again.
JinjoUnchained
Member
They both had record high unfavorable ratings for major party candidates. My guess would be that voters held their nose and picked the candidate that seemed more authentic, that is the guy who has no filter on any thought that crops up into his head.
This. I wonder if all the people who are so OK with certain people having more voting power than others based on geography would also be OK with non-white people, gay people or trans people getting multiple votes to 'make up for' their minority status? Once you decide a certain group of people deserve extra voting power because reasons, where should it end?
No, the vast majority of white women didn't vote. Trump was able to turn out more white women than Hillary could.
Yep. He's rich but not classy, famous but not talented, powerful but not smart. He's a thumb in the eye of every 'elite' who said he couldn't win.
People saw themselves in him. That's the saddest and most fucked up thing.
Justin Bailey
------ ------
Hillary just is not a campaigner. She does not know how, or chooses not to, put serious effort and energy into rallying her cause. She made the same mistake when she went up against Obama.
RustyNails
Member
If there's one absolute takeaway from 2016 election for me, it's that US presidential election is a pageantry. It does not matter if you have books on policies, decades worth of experience, or an answer to every single question in a debate. What matters is your ability to "connect" to voters. Everything else is just gravy.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
it's more that she hires bad strategists
Mook is way more of a fuckup than Hillary herself will ever be
Justin Bailey
------ ------
Yeah, definitely bad strategy. But it's almost like she focuses too much on that. She should have focused on herself and working on her own persona on the campaign. She was trying to use clever strategies to win, when what she really needed to do was figure out how to get people to listen to and believe in her.
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
To be fair the release of the access Hollywood tape (which was years old and could be released any time) was an October surprise as well. They were both saving bombshells for late in the campaign.
Mahadev
Member
Yeah, she only had the entire status quo supporting her afterall, from corporate media to celebrities and internet giants. How could she win under these terrible conditions, how?
The media was in support of Trump. Their words were for Hillary, but all of their actions promoted Trump. Same with the internet giants (though that seemed more due to carelessness than any ratings obsession).
...she is also just an awful candidate. She's been running for years and I still couldn't tell you what she really stands for. What issues she believes so strongly in that I can't help but associate her with. As full of shit as Trump is, I can still point to his absurd policy proposals (the wall, for instance) - same with Bernie (the 1%!).
Isaac Otherworld
Member
We've known this since JFK. This was true with Carter. This was true with Gore. This was true with Obama.
dead souls
Member
Well actually if you check her website...
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Why is U.S. voter turnout so low?
Voter suppression, not a holiday or protected well, made purposefully inconvenient (see suppression)
How did her ads run? You think info on a website was a more successful way of campaigning her message than actually putting it on ads? All she said was we were better than the other guy.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
You guys need to stop coddling the mythical white working class that Clinton supposedly lost.
No Democrat has won the White vote going back to 1976, and I'm sure it extends further to at least 1968.
ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-1992/
Trump won every possible permutation of white voters with the exception of white LGBT and college educated white women. In that respect, he's no different from Romney, McCain, Bush Jr., Dole, Bush Sr or Reagan.
You know how Democrats win elections? By mobilizing their base - people of colour. Obama won in 2008 and 2012 despite garnering only 40% of the white vote. Democratic voters vote Democrat or not at all. If you're able to get the Not At All people to get out and vote, you should win every election.
Republicans vote Republicans and only for Republicans. Trump's victory is not special in any respect except for that it definitively proves that the Republicans will literally vote for anyone as long as they are Republicans.
No Democrat has won the White vote going back to 1976, and I'm sure it extends further to at least 1968.
ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-1992/
Trump won every possible permutation of white voters with the exception of white LGBT and college educated white women. In that respect, he's no different from Romney, McCain, Bush Jr., Dole, Bush Sr or Reagan.
You know how Democrats win elections? By mobilizing their base - people of colour. Obama won in 2008 and 2012 despite garnering only 40% of the white vote. Democratic voters vote Democrat or not at all. If you're able to get the Not At All people to get out and vote, you should win every election.
Republicans vote Republicans and only for Republicans. Trump's victory is not special in any respect except for that it definitively proves that the Republicans will literally vote for anyone as long as they are Republicans.
i believe that was sarcasm
