Support NeoGAF

[benny_a]

Austin Walker from Waypoint (http://waypoint.vice.com) had an Interview with Reggie Fils-Aime where this exchange took place:

In video form:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p125EIbQJDY
--

Pssst, that video is only like two little clips. Couldn't shoot the whole interview. You can read the whole thing in context here tho.

 

[Slab64]

"There wasn't a charge but there was a commercial product."

????

 

[BassForever]

The answer isn't wrong in a vacuum, anyone who tries to profit off of an ip they don't have the rights to should be shut down. As far as I know AM2R never made any effort to profit off of the project, neither through ads or donations.

 

[samred]

Austin went on to speculate that "commercial product," in this case, can only translate to "competition for OUR commercial product." AKA, Metroid: Samus Returns was in the works, and its commercial viability would have been challenged by the fan project. Weird phrasing dodge on Reggie's part, because, uh, that's not what "commercial" means, AFAIK...

https://twitter.com/austin_walker/status/878345935683698689

 

[Mutant]

It satisfied a demand for free, I guess?

 

[User123456]

"There wasn't a charge but there was a commercial product."

????

Yeah, what the hell. I don't get it either.

 

[Zennistrad]

"Commercial product without a charge" makes about as much sense as "a square without four sides."

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I think what he means is that it was of a high enough quality to equal a commercial product? Especially in light of the fact that Nintendo has been actively developing a Metroid 2 remake.

Not sure why he couldn't have come out and said that though. Not that it would have made fans less upset.

 

[Mutant]

Also AM2R wasn't killed. It's finished, it's out there for you to download.

 

[EmiPrime]

commercial || (abbreviation comm.)
adjective
1 concerned with or engaged in commerce: a commercial agreement.
2 making or intended to make a profit: commercial products.
• having profit, rather than artistic or other value, as a primary aim: their work is too commercial.

commerce || (abbreviation comm.)
noun
1 the activity of buying and selling, especially on a large scale: the possible increase of commerce by a great railroad.

The hell are you on about Reggie?

 

[Tagyhag]

Austin went on to speculate that "commercial product," in this case, can only translate to "competition for OUR commercial product." AKA, Metroid: Samus Returns was in the works, and its commercial viability would have been challenged by the fan project. Weird phrasing dodge on Reggie's part, because, uh, that's not what "commercial" means, AFAIK...

That's exactly what it is, and if Nintendo's version of Metroid 2 ends up being shit it's just going to fan the flames even more.

 

[Bakercat]

So, is Nintendo mad and killed the product because they couldn't profit off the product, even thought the creator never had any intention off doing it in the first place? I'm really confused on their explanation.

 

[Rain City Gamer]

"Commercial product without a charge" makes about as much sense as "a square without four sides."

I am assuming he meant commercial quality product for free.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

The wishy-washy response should have been clearer:

"We had a project in the pipeline and we invested millions into this IP we own. This product would have made our version less compelling so we had to shut it, or our product down to avoid a loss"

 

[Dynomutt]

Biggest misconception is that companies and consumers are in this together. As shaky as that answer is just saying no they cannot use our IP would have been suffice. Nintendo has full right to control their IP. Difficult to compete with free especially if a fine quality/overall finish is present in the latter.

 

[QisTopTier]

"Commercial product without a charge" makes about as much sense as "a square without four sides."

Probably referring to its quality

 

[RyougaSaotome]

I think what he means is that it was of a high enough quality to equal a commercial product?

This was the impression I was getting. If the product, free or not, is of a high enough quality (nebulous, I know) to potentially compete with a retail product of theirs, they consider that a commercial product.

Doubly so when they have an actual similar game in development.

He'd honestly have been better off just saying that was the case outright. The way he phrases it here makes zero sense on paper.

 

[KojiKnight]

I think Reggie was flustered by the question. I don't believe the interview centered around this question so it being thrown out he probably didn't have a prepared statement.

That said, i think the interviewers interpretation makes the most sense... That is, am2r was a commercial quality product that was using their IP that was given away for free and would have competed with their paid product.

 

[JusDoIt]

whatswrongwithyou.gif

 

[Lights and Waves]

I still don't understand how y'all can't possibly fathom why Nintendo would want to have control of their IPs.

You guys are so hard-headed sometimes.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

So he should've charged $40 for it. Got it, thanks Reggie.

I'd honestly prefer a straight up answer.

 

[Cpt Lmao]

So, is Nintendo mad and killed the product because they couldn't profit off the product, even thought the creator never had any intention off doing it in the first place? I'm really confused on their explanation.

One of their own games is now competing with one of their own games and potentially siphoning money away from them. If you were in Nintendo's position, would you allow that to happen when you have the rights to prevent it from doing so (Nintendo have ownership and control of the Metroid IP).

 

[chronomac]

I still don't understand how y'all can't possibly fathom why Nintendo would want to have control of their IPs.

You guys are so hard-headed sometimes.

Agreed. It shouldn't be surprising at all that Nintendo didn't take the news well that someone, off on their own, created a Metroid game. And while that game was technically free, it would have taken sales away from a Metroid II remake, Metroid II VC releases, and who knows what else. Also, and I'm willing to admit I'm wrong on this, but didn't the AM2R creator have a donate button? One could argue he profited via that.

Another point: sometimes companies like Nintendo don't necessarily want to kill products and concepts like this but they must do so in order to protect their trademark/copyright. If AM2R gets a pass and something else doesn't, it could be murky legal waters.

 

[finley83]

I still don't understand how y'all can't possibly fathom why Nintendo would want to have control of their IPs.

You guys are so hard-headed sometimes.

It's more that Nintendo have passively allowed Mario and Zelda fan games to proliferate for over 20 years without taking legal action, but C&D'd this game in particular.

I'm guessing it's because it was a remake of an official release, rather than a fangame in it's own right.

 

[Zennistrad]

Austin went on to speculate that "commercial product," in this case, can only translate to "competition for OUR commercial product." AKA, Metroid: Samus Returns was in the works, and its commercial viability would have been challenged by the fan project.

Keep in mind that it's entirely plausible that Nintendo didn't start developing Samus Returns until after AM2R had proved there was significant fan support for more Metroid.

They'd never admit that, of course, but given their Let's Play bullshittery in the past it's not hard to imagine that they'd shut down a fan project and make their own replacement because they'd rather not have something be popular that they can't make money from.

 

[forknknife]

It sucks for the creator but Nintendo was right to stop that project and protect their product. Maybe in a few years they can allow him to release it again.

 

[HStallion]

He should have just blurted out "cross play" to appease the masses.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

Yeah the takeaway is pretty clearly that it was interfering with their own Metroid 2 remake that was in the works.

 

[JustenP88]

I still don't understand how y'all can't possibly fathom why Nintendo would want to have control of their IPs.

You guys are so hard-headed sometimes.

Yeah, I can't wrap my head around this either. I'm not really tapped into the community, but I would assume a C&D for something like this would be standard practice, regardless of monetization.

If I started a burger stand with a big McDonald's sign and I was just giving away burgers in McDonald's packaging that I made, I wouldn't expect that venture to last long.

 

[Mcdohl]

Good game fan projects are usually...

1. Never finished
2. C&D'd

Sad, but not surprised, at all.

 

[Dark Ninja]

I agree with Nintendo protecting their ip's there are bunch of shady people out there making money off other people's and companies ip's. Even if they weren't making any money I like that they go after fan projects equally and don't just target specific one's. Kill em all.

 

[Zombie James]

If Reggie ever gets fired from Nintendo, he'll find a home with Bethesda. Yeeeesh.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Wasn't this game going to be featured at the Game Awards?

I'm guessing it got too high profile for its own good and it made Nintendo look stupid.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Wasn't this game going to be featured at the Game Awards?

I'm guessing it got too high profile for its own good and it made Nintendo look stupid.

It was in the running for best fan game IIRC

 

[Syranth]

What he really means is that it was a full fledged game. Not a modification of existing code or something simple. It was a full fledged commercial product. It COULD be sold as a "commercial product". See this is where game companies typically stop a fan project. They typically ignore it until it shows enough promise to actually be complete and could damage profits and/or their brand. I don't disagree with him. AMR2 was pretty good and was complete enough to be dangerous.

Take my comments with a grain of salt. I also agree that Disney and companies like that should retain their copyright because I don't want to see a lot of Micky Mouse knock offs hitting the market. I'd also like my sequels to be sponsored by the vision of the company that owns them. I DO however appreciate mods and total conversion, but within reason.

 

[Diprosalic]

it's a product that competes against another product that is for sale and thus enters the marketplace. (i guess...)

 

[RumbleHumble]

Commercial goods in IP law are generally understood to be items exchanged for some type of monetary value. "Commercial product" wouldn't really apply here. However because that game was riddled with trademarks utilized without permission of the owner, Nintendo has the free and clear to go nuts. Whether it's the best PR is another story, but hey, Nintendo gonna Nintendo.

 

[WreckTheLaw]

Austin Walker from Waypoint
In video form:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p125EIbQJDY

Pssst, that video is only like two little clips. Couldn't shoot the whole interview. You can read the whole thing in context here tho.

 

[OmegaFax]

Wasn't this game going to be featured at the Game Awards?

I'm guessing it got too high profile for its own good and it made Nintendo look stupid.

Yes, along with Pokemon Uranium. Neither Pokemon Company or Nintendo wanted them featured as nominees.

 

[moltonasty]

Reggie is the absolute king of PR, he would be an amazing politician

 

[Stairouais]

So, as usual, he did not answer the question.

Why. Can't. He. Fucking. Answer. A. Single. Question?

 

[jacobeid]

This is really dumb. He could have just communicated the truth better. Honestly, the game is out and anyone can play it. Nintendo has to protect their IP, so you should expect them to have it taken down, but Reggie didn't even really answer Austin's question.

Pssst, that video is only like two little clips. Couldn't shoot the whole interview. You can read the whole thing in context here tho.

Oh shit. Austin is here!

 

[LelouchZero]

How... Does this make any sense?

EDIT:

I guess I need... what's the definition of "commercial product" for Nintendo?

Well, again, it's all about... How do we protect our intellectual property? How do our creators, like Mr. Sakamoto, who created Metroid, and Nintendo control that intellectual property so that we can drive where it's going, versus someone else driving where it's going.

That's where the line is very clear for us. And again, we could go on to YouTube and a variety of different places and see fans doing interesting things with our IP. But when it turns to driving the direction of the IP, or somehow monetizing or becoming a commercial project, that's where for us, the line has been crossed.

Source (Waypoint)

Okay I get it now. It's probably more focused on the driving of the direction of the IP, especially since there's a "Metroid: Samus Returns" now which has probably been in development for quite some time.
Fan games could possibly be seen as competitors.

 

[Cpt Lmao]

So, as usual, he did not answer the question.

Why. Can't. He. Fucking. Answer. A. Single. Question?

Because he's good at PR, which as it happens, is his job.

 

[13ruce]

Austin went on to speculate that "commercial product," in this case, can only translate to "competition for OUR commercial product." AKA, Metroid: Samus Returns was in the works, and its commercial viability would have been challenged by the fan project. Weird phrasing dodge on Reggie's part, because, uh, that's not what "commercial" means, AFAIK...

https://twitter.com/austin_walker/status/878345935683698689

No way AM2R would have eaten Samus Returns lunch a fan project vs a official product.

But agreed the Reggie spin is strange.

 

[Mejilan]

It's more that Nintendo have passively allowed Mario and Zelda fan games to proliferate for over 20 years without taking legal action, but C&D'd this game in particular.

I'm guessing it's because it was a remake of an official release, rather than a fangame in it's own right.

As others mentioned, I think it's more the that it was a fan remake of a game that they (Nintendo) were already actively remaking themselves.

And it's also worth mentioning that Nintendo is highly unlikely to have missed the fact that AM2R existed before it landed. It was in active development for what, close to a decade, and has seen multiple playable demo releases during that development.

They didn't have to wait until it was done and released before they dropped the C&D.

 

[Zojirushi]

"This dude made a better Metroid than us lazy fucks ever could so we couldn't accept that obviously "

 

[OmegaFax]

Reggie is the absolute king of PR, he would be an amazing politician

I actually thought this, too. If he ever gives up a life in marketing, he could probably successfully run for office. The guy can boomerang around a question and never really answer it.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

So, as usual, he did not answer the question.

Why. Can't. He. Fucking. Answer. A. Single. Question?

Because he's a PR spokesman for a major company.

 

[KojiKnight]

Wasn't this game going to be featured at the Game Awards?

I'm guessing it got too high profile for its own good and it made Nintendo look stupid.

Not a great look to announce their remake of Metroid 2 a year after AM2R even if their version was already in the works by then.

It may not look stupid, but it would look like Nintendo was just stealing ideas from fans.