Wandering Robot
Member
I relate to characters based on personality, interests, and goals. Not being able to relate because a character's the opposite sex (or race, for that matter) always seemed juvenile to me.
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Relating to an opposite sex protagonist
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NoctisVsStar
Member
Sex doesn't matter, personality and charactization is what matters. Aloy and Lara are prime examples.
I don't even give it much thought tho.
I don't even give it much thought tho.
TissueBox
Member
I find human struggle, charm, vulnerability, badassery, and likability endearing and relatable across either gender or life form. If they possess a compelling array of any such attributes I will be able to put my feet in their shoes... and if not, I'd probably grumble about it across either gender or life form as well. Of course, the subject of specifically what variation of qualities appeals to me, on the other hand, is a different matter...
It was really a warming moment when I showed Nier: Automata (ie the demo) to one young acquainted rascal of mine who's about 10, and when he started off he was at first put off by the idea of playing 'the girl' instead of the guy, and wondered outloud about how it seemed unfitting -- and then by the end of the demo he was with it all the way and rooting for 2B saying 'let's go 2B!' Just goes to show that such notions tend to be taught from lack of exposure, and a lack of prominent heroines to be exposed to.
It was really a warming moment when I showed Nier: Automata (ie the demo) to one young acquainted rascal of mine who's about 10, and when he started off he was at first put off by the idea of playing 'the girl' instead of the guy, and wondered outloud about how it seemed unfitting -- and then by the end of the demo he was with it all the way and rooting for 2B saying 'let's go 2B!' Just goes to show that such notions tend to be taught from lack of exposure, and a lack of prominent heroines to be exposed to.
texhnolyze
Banned
I pity anyone who thinks that way.
Yeah, this. I couldn't get into World of Final Fantasy due to how childish the characters are. It's not like standard JRPG cast, even though lots of JRPGs have teens as their protagonists, the stories are usually pretty mature or even dark. And they certainly don't act like kids.
Yeah, this. I couldn't get into World of Final Fantasy due to how childish the characters are. It's not like standard JRPG cast, even though lots of JRPGs have teens as their protagonists, the stories are usually pretty mature or even dark. And they certainly don't act like kids.
I don't relate to most characters, to me it's just an avatar to interact with the gameworld, I care more about mechanics and control than character background or story.
Same as on games with character generation I usually just pick stock I prefer gear customization over character model looks.
This does sometimes lead to me choosing female over male characters just because they sometimes get better gear options if it's a game that isn't just trying to sell sexuality and actually lets you put real clothes and armor on.
It's also why I champion diversity in games. I will play as any avatar so why can't some of those avatars represent well for the many different people who game, it is a hobby that appeals across all lines so us white males don't always need to be catered to.
Just my thoughts I really wouldn't judge someone who felt different I just can't even relate.
Same as on games with character generation I usually just pick stock I prefer gear customization over character model looks.
This does sometimes lead to me choosing female over male characters just because they sometimes get better gear options if it's a game that isn't just trying to sell sexuality and actually lets you put real clothes and armor on.
It's also why I champion diversity in games. I will play as any avatar so why can't some of those avatars represent well for the many different people who game, it is a hobby that appeals across all lines so us white males don't always need to be catered to.
Just my thoughts I really wouldn't judge someone who felt different I just can't even relate.
Whiteblade999
Member
Yup. Can't relate to men very easily anymore and would love the option to play as a woman more. All of the macho men space marines really wore thin for me years ago. There are well done examples of course, but they are about as far apart as well done women if I'm going to be honest.
I don't really understand why being able to relate to a character is a prerequisite to being able to enjoy a story. I'd be willing to bet your friend has played Grand Theft Auto, does he relate to those characters?
Admittedly, in games where I have a choice, I opt for a male protagonist on my initial playthrough. Maybe this is just some unconscious bias, I've never really thought about it, but generally I'm not bothered by who the protagonist is. If it's clear that the developers intended for the character to be relatable but failed due to poor writing then that's a different argument, but not all creators are striving for that. I never take a first look at a game and think "They expect me to play as what?!"
I mean, whatever, your friend is free to choose whatever they want to play, but I'm interested in good storytelling. I'm not going to purposely limit the kinds of experiences available to me based on something so absurd.
Admittedly, in games where I have a choice, I opt for a male protagonist on my initial playthrough. Maybe this is just some unconscious bias, I've never really thought about it, but generally I'm not bothered by who the protagonist is. If it's clear that the developers intended for the character to be relatable but failed due to poor writing then that's a different argument, but not all creators are striving for that. I never take a first look at a game and think "They expect me to play as what?!"
I mean, whatever, your friend is free to choose whatever they want to play, but I'm interested in good storytelling. I'm not going to purposely limit the kinds of experiences available to me based on something so absurd.
I find it really easy, mostly because the character's feelings, thoughts, and emotions are what makes them easy to relate to, and as someone who finds fault with society's gender norms, if a game challenges those, I find that easy to empathize with as well.
It makes me sad to think that women and non-binary folks are often forced to relate to an opposite gender-identity protagonist and don't have the opportunity to have a protagonist matching their gender identity in most games so I feel that complaining about some of the few games with a female protagonist (or even rarer) a trans or non-binary protagonist is privileged and dumb.
It makes me sad to think that women and non-binary folks are often forced to relate to an opposite gender-identity protagonist and don't have the opportunity to have a protagonist matching their gender identity in most games so I feel that complaining about some of the few games with a female protagonist (or even rarer) a trans or non-binary protagonist is privileged and dumb.
Mineshaft_Gap
4077th
I deal just fine. It helps if the game has an atmosphere or characters that I love. Main protag of almost all the Dragon Quest games are male but I adore the series. It helps that the main protags are silent in games like The Legend of Zelda. When I was a lot younger playing these games I didn't think about how the main character was a boy as much as I thought about how in love with the game I was.
A younger me would have been super stoked on a girl Link though, I'm not gonna lie, but Link being a boy didn't hinder my experience.
Games with large casts of prominent supporting characters make it way better too. Heck, Final Fantasy was one of my favorite series of all time back in the PS1 and early PS2 days. The main characters aren't female but I guess I felt enough of a connection with the female supporting cast where I felt there was something to hang on to. These aren't the most machismo laden games ever made, y'know? Especially FF9, greatest FF in all the land apart from FF6.
A younger me would have been super stoked on a girl Link though, I'm not gonna lie, but Link being a boy didn't hinder my experience.
Games with large casts of prominent supporting characters make it way better too. Heck, Final Fantasy was one of my favorite series of all time back in the PS1 and early PS2 days. The main characters aren't female but I guess I felt enough of a connection with the female supporting cast where I felt there was something to hang on to. These aren't the most machismo laden games ever made, y'know? Especially FF9, greatest FF in all the land apart from FF6.
As a girl this mind set totally makes me roll my eyes.
I mean, I think it's totally okay to have a preference! (I actually prefer to play as males, lucky me!) But preference doesn't mean you can't connect to or understand someone different from you. Seriously, if someone is having trouble empathizing with a character only due to their looks, there might be a deeper problem there. It isn't that hard to do.
I mean, I think it's totally okay to have a preference! (I actually prefer to play as males, lucky me!) But preference doesn't mean you can't connect to or understand someone different from you. Seriously, if someone is having trouble empathizing with a character only due to their looks, there might be a deeper problem there. It isn't that hard to do.
Essentially, hopefully your friend doesn't play any games with people who have super powers. How would he relate to that?
I mean, idk. I have played as female characters often. Often by choice.
But...I don't know many gamers, but my sister, for example, sometimes is put off by playing a man. Or a better way to put it may be the idea of playing as a man, before the fact.
For example, she watched the vast majority of my first playthrough of Persona 4 and was quite into it and curious about the series, but to get her to actually play it I had to get her P3P, partly because of the female protagonist option and partly because she favors portables. After having played P3, she has turned to P4 and is fine with the male main character (and actually doesn't think a female protagonist would work well with the cast dynamic of that one), but...the male protagonist was a originally a hurdle.
I don't really know in what way exactly tbh. It wasn't a romance thing. She's also consumed plenty of male gendered content over time, from classical to more popular fiction. She is, however, in a very female-centric phase after having been self-hating and woman-hating as a teen, by which I mean she does tend to seek out female characters, in particular, these days and prioritize their narratives in her interpretations of things.
But...I don't know many gamers, but my sister, for example, sometimes is put off by playing a man. Or a better way to put it may be the idea of playing as a man, before the fact.
For example, she watched the vast majority of my first playthrough of Persona 4 and was quite into it and curious about the series, but to get her to actually play it I had to get her P3P, partly because of the female protagonist option and partly because she favors portables. After having played P3, she has turned to P4 and is fine with the male main character (and actually doesn't think a female protagonist would work well with the cast dynamic of that one), but...the male protagonist was a originally a hurdle.
I don't really know in what way exactly tbh. It wasn't a romance thing. She's also consumed plenty of male gendered content over time, from classical to more popular fiction. She is, however, in a very female-centric phase after having been self-hating and woman-hating as a teen, by which I mean she does tend to seek out female characters, in particular, these days and prioritize their narratives in her interpretations of things.
Mineshaft_Gap
4077th
I'm nervous about saying it, but I really didn't care for how they made Ellie
The Last of Us.
gay in
I have no problem with gay or lesbian people, and if there are people out there who feel empowered by her inclusion as an LGBT character then rock on brothers and sisters. I'm glad.
I felt disappointed though, to have this bond and friendship between two female characters made into something sexual. I know it wasn't over the top or inappropriate. I just felt like, "really? You can't just have two girls be good friends?" I'd be lying if I said it didn't take me out of it somewhat. Especially since I definitely could relate to Ellie/see her and I as people who'd have gotten along when I was her age.
I felt disappointed though, to have this bond and friendship between two female characters made into something sexual. I know it wasn't over the top or inappropriate. I just felt like, "really? You can't just have two girls be good friends?" I'd be lying if I said it didn't take me out of it somewhat. Especially since I definitely could relate to Ellie/see her and I as people who'd have gotten along when I was her age.
JigglesBunny
Banned
I relate to people, not genders. This goes for fictional characters and people in the real world.
Valkerionseven
Member
I don't have a problem with it. Just cause a character does not have a penis like I do does not mean they are not relatable, compelling, or enjoyable to play as. I often find it a weird concept to want to relate to a character in any capacity or expect to. Most games have protagonists in larger than life situations and in turn makes them hard to relate to no matter the gender.
That said I can be completely into a character, their struggle, and story ect. But I don't think I often "relate" to them.
That said I can be completely into a character, their struggle, and story ect. But I don't think I often "relate" to them.
chrisPjelly
Member
It's silly to have that barrier, but I think a lot of that has to do with the stigma that carries over from traditional Hollywood female roles. I'm sure that prospect of a possible romance can make some men very uncomfortable.
RyougaSaotome
Member
Zero issue with this. I love playing as female characters when given the chance.
I don't mind playing as a female at all, in fact, I might even prefer it.
If I play thru a character creation in a game as a male, I tend to make him look like me and a name similar to mine. Basically an enhanced fantasy version of myself. While if I make a female character I make things up and get more involved in roleplaying the character.
What I don't like, however, are whiny characters or stupid characters. There been a number of JRPGs where I felt "what the hell is he doing" or "I don't want to do this" and yet you're forced to do it, cause that's how you continue with the game plot. The main character Edge in Star Ocean 4 is pretty much the prime example of this, where the stupid actions of the hero cause Earth to ben blown up, and then spend quite some time feeling sorry about himself because he's responsible for massive amounts of deaths because of his mindblowing stupidity. No fan of the already mentioned Kratos (only played the first GoW and feel it's enough), but I prefer playing angry hulks like him over stupid idiots like Edge.
If I play thru a character creation in a game as a male, I tend to make him look like me and a name similar to mine. Basically an enhanced fantasy version of myself. While if I make a female character I make things up and get more involved in roleplaying the character.
What I don't like, however, are whiny characters or stupid characters. There been a number of JRPGs where I felt "what the hell is he doing" or "I don't want to do this" and yet you're forced to do it, cause that's how you continue with the game plot. The main character Edge in Star Ocean 4 is pretty much the prime example of this, where the stupid actions of the hero cause Earth to ben blown up, and then spend quite some time feeling sorry about himself because he's responsible for massive amounts of deaths because of his mindblowing stupidity. No fan of the already mentioned Kratos (only played the first GoW and feel it's enough), but I prefer playing angry hulks like him over stupid idiots like Edge.
Especially if they have tried a Bioware female romance. Those are Awful.
Horizon actually did that pretty well at that aspect, mostly ignoring it.
While making it clear that Val is the "best guy"
Do people not realize these are just GAMES. Aloy is one of the best characters i've played in recent years and what does it matter if she's female. i fortunately have never come across anyone making such absurd arguments. If the character and the game is good, then who cares what color or gender they are. enjoy the goddamn game
Gradly
Member
I don't really have an issue playing as any character (human, robot, alien, etc) especially when the design is attractive.
But if I have to choose a character, I always opt to choose the one with attributes I'd like to have in real life; I wish I was taller, had longer hair, etc that's why I customize the character to have those features. It's part of my reason to / the purpose of gaming which is to escape reality.
But if I have to choose a character, I always opt to choose the one with attributes I'd like to have in real life; I wish I was taller, had longer hair, etc that's why I customize the character to have those features. It's part of my reason to / the purpose of gaming which is to escape reality.
More_Badass
Member
I relate with a good character. Doesn't matter who or what the protagonist is if they're well-crafted, well-written, and so on.
I mean, people have related to mice in Redwall, dogs in Homeward Bound, a robot in Wall-e, an alien in ET, and so on
The notion that it's difficult or impossible to relate to another human character because of their gender (or race or whatever) comes across as pretty weak when you consider all the other kinds of protagonists you've related to across fiction
I mean, people have related to mice in Redwall, dogs in Homeward Bound, a robot in Wall-e, an alien in ET, and so on
The notion that it's difficult or impossible to relate to another human character because of their gender (or race or whatever) comes across as pretty weak when you consider all the other kinds of protagonists you've related to across fiction
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I think gender amounts to a smaller barrier compared to the rest of the characteristics if anything. If you can relate to an immortal with amnesia or a witch with godlike powers, the gender seems trivial.
Basketball
Member
Yep
Same thing with Anime/ Manga
I can't watch stuff with people younger than 17 .. boring, not interesting
More_Badass
Member
Not even Stranger Things?
The real Butters
Member
I don't need to relate to play a game. I'm not that personally invested in the character as much as I am in experiencing the world and seeing what happens. That's how I approach my games at least.
Give me a purple donkey wizard as my next character and I'll treat it just the same as Marcus Fenix or Aloy.
Give me a purple donkey wizard as my next character and I'll treat it just the same as Marcus Fenix or Aloy.
Basketball
Member
never seen it
MissileTrick
Member
If I did I would have only played a handful of games. Lol
TheSaddestSort
Member
I don't really have this problem. In fact, I'd say in games that let me choose or create a character most of the time I'll try playing a female one. Sometimes if a character has a locked playstyle that won't bear out, but if there's a good story involved or relatable moments with the characters it's a non-issue.
So, does your friend only play games where the protagonist comes from a background he identifies with? Like same country of origin, same ethnicity, same age? Any game you play you're going to play as a character that is somehow outside of your experience or identity. Isn't that kind of the point? Play as a brawny bald space marine that shoots alien ass and saves the world because you're a scrawny normal person that couldn't shoot the broad sign of a barn or save a dollar.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
You'd need to be incredibly dull and unimaginative for this to be a problem for anyone.
However on the flip side you'd also need to be self obsessed and dull if you demanded to relate to every character in every game ever.
You don't actually have to 'relate' to anything to enjoy a game, story or character. In fact it's often more fun when you don't.
However on the flip side you'd also need to be self obsessed and dull if you demanded to relate to every character in every game ever.
You don't actually have to 'relate' to anything to enjoy a game, story or character. In fact it's often more fun when you don't.
AtomskEater
Member
Never had problems playing as dudes in most games and starting relationships with female characters, so I can't understand people who say those things are barriers to their enjoyment of a game.
This. There are loads of female characters I like for various aspects of their personality, and where I've created them myself for RPGs it's for various others too. Almost like they are human or something. I don't really get how some people can only view characters through their gender/sexuality/skin colour, unless the character has the depth of a puddle. I don't think I've ever followed a character thinking 'what I really like about him is his maleness, I can relate to that' either, it's always actual character traits, like charisma, guile, tenacity, intelligence, or shared experiences. It's rare to find even a character I share nothing with and find not a single quality I like about them or find interesting either, even when it's playable antagonists that are otherwise clearly awful people.
I think some of it comes down to a male player's perceived relationship with any female character as a proto-girlfriend, and thus finding her seeing any other male character as attractive, or even the prospect of it, as troublesome for them, both in terms of jealousy and thinking any romance would then be 'gay'. But also it's the failure to view female characters as viable individual protagonists with their own traits as opposed to just a stand-in for femininity.
Fredrik
Member
Exactly this.
I have no problem at all playing as Lara in Tomb Raider or Aloy in Horizon, in fact I love it. Thing is, those games aren't meant to immerse me to think I AM those characters, I'm just lucky enough to get to experiencing and listening to _their_ story rather than make my own story, it's not role playing, it's like listening to a saga or watch a movie. And honestly I'll rather look at Lara's ass swaying about in tight clothes right infront of me than Snake or Spiderman or whatever lol ;D
But when I play RPGs, and the immersion makes me get totally lost in the world like I AM that character, when it's proper role playing and when the game deals with personal choices with consequences that change the story, when there is rommancing, when I can almost make my own story, and when the game just generally puts me in situation after situation where I instinctively ask myself "What would I do in this situation?" rather than "What would this character do in this situation?" etc. Well, then I always want to play as a man. Oblivion, Skyrim, Mass Effect, etc, where I LIVE that world, where I AM that character, then I always play as a man.
Does it makes sense? Probably not. But yeah that's me.
Trigonometrize.
Member
Okay, so even if you don't feel you relate to the protagonist because it's a girl, when has relating to a protagonist ever stopped you before? What about games where there's no character you relate to to play as? I guess you just relate to god more than a girl. Do you handicap your party in an RPG because not enough of the characters share the same qualities as you? Do you not play games with multiple characters at all because you don't have DID? Do you only play first person games where you mostly can't see the physical features of the character behind the camera because you don't relate to having digital hands and feet flopping around? Have you just been waiting for the VR revolution so that you can insert yourself into the game without any of these worries?
It's a rabbit hole of nonsense.
It's a rabbit hole of nonsense.
Permanently A
Junior Member
I mean, I had no trouble playing as Clem in TWD. I'm not a woman, nor am I in a zombie apocalypse, but it worked out.
Moff
Member
I don't understand that at all to the point where I doubt what people are talking about. Why the hell would it be a problem to relate to people who are not my gender, age or ethnicity? Would I really react or feel different if I was in the situation they are? I really doubt it.
The only games where I insist on playing guys are MMOs because I feel the character should represent me to some degree.
The only games where I insist on playing guys are MMOs because I feel the character should represent me to some degree.
disappeared
Banned
What is a "sex protagonist", and what are they opposing? I can't relate without an explanation.
I'm a fucking brown guy. Apparently the only characters I get to relate to are the Prince of Persia and the countless terrorists getting shot in the face in every modern military shooter.
Tell your friend to suck it up. I'm sure he has no issue relating to every predanatural badass white dude adventurers in 95% of popular games that he plays.
Tell your friend to suck it up. I'm sure he has no issue relating to every predanatural badass white dude adventurers in 95% of popular games that he plays.
CielTynave
Member
Honestly, I think when people say things like not being able to relate to a female protagonist what they actually mean (maybe subconsciously) is that they can't self insert for some power fantasy BS.