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Remarkable show of solidarity (with UK): more than 100 Russian diplomats expelled worldwide

llien

Member
A number of countries has decided to expel Russian diplomats as an answer to Putin's aggressive moves, including using military grade chemical weapons to kill a former KGB agent.

Who is expelling diplomats:

The UK announced it was expelling 23 Russian diplomats earlier this month.
  • US: 60 diplomats
  • EU countries: France (4); Germany (4); Poland (4); Czech Republic (3); Lithuania (3); Denmark (2); Netherlands (2); Italy (2); Spain (2); Estonia (1); Croatia (1); Finland (1); Hungary (1); Latvia (1); Romania (1); Sweden (1)
  • Ukraine: 13
  • Canada: 4, plus the rejection of 3 further applications from Russia
  • Albania: 2
  • Australia: 2
  • Norway: 1
  • Macedonia: 1
  • Australia 2
Iceland has also announced it is suspending high-level dialogue with Russian authorities, and its leaders will not attend the World Cup, which starts in Russia in June.
The UK said earlier this month it would not send ministers or members of the Royal Family to the football tournament.

EU countries that have said they have no intention of expelling diplomats include Austria, Greece and Portugal, although all have said they support the UK and condemn the poisoning.


What are the precedents?
In 1986, US President Ronald Reagan expelled 80 Cold War-era Russian diplomats.

In 2016, the Obama administration expelled 35 Russian diplomats in response to the alleged hacking of the US Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton campaign during the 2016 presidential election, accusations Moscow denied.

Senior US officials told the Associated Press that Russia had an estimated 100 intelligence officials at its diplomatic posts in the US, suggesting that dozens will still be left in the country.

However, the diplomats working at the UN were described by the US State Department as "intelligence operatives", suggesting it is looking to hamper more than just administrational work.

BBC`


Notable mentions:

Leon Trotsky
330px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-R15068%2C_Leo_Dawidowitsch_Trotzki.jpg


Assasinated by NKVD (what would later become KGB & GRU) in Mexico city. It took more than one attempt

.


Oleg Penkovsky who played a key role in Cuban Missile Crisis:

Oleg_Penkovsky_CIA.png


Some might the following content disturbing:
GRU agent Vladimir Rezun, known for his controversial books under the pseudonym Viktor Suvorov following his defection from the Soviet Union to the United Kingdom, claimed in Aquarium to have been shown a black and white film in which a GRU colonel was bound to a stretcher and cremated alive in a crematorium as a warning to potential traitors,

English version of the wikipedia doesn't have that information, but people watching Russian TV back in 90th (relaxed era, with no government control) could have heard other KGB officers, including Yuri Kobaladze (in Russian) confirming "Rezun"'s claim.


Russian spy: State TV anchor warns 'traitors'

KJ6pQiT.png

(text on the screen states: "where is the evidence")

The comment by Kirill Kleimenov - the presenter on government-controlled Channel One's flagship Vremya news programme - sounded like a veiled, mocking threat to anyone considering becoming a double agent for Britain.

"I don't wish death on anyone, but for purely educational purposes, I have a warning for anyone who dreams of such a career," he said.

"The profession of a traitor is one of the most dangerous in the world," Kleimenov said, adding that few who had chosen it had lived to a ripe old age.

Alcoholism, drug addiction, stress and depression resulting in heart attacks and even suicide were the "professional illnesses of a traitor", according to Kleimenov.

'Maybe it's the climate'
He also had a second piece of advice for such "traitors or those who simply hate their country in their free time": "Don't choose Britain as a place to live."

"Something is wrong there. Maybe it's the climate, but in recent years there have been too many strange incidents with grave outcomes there."
The remarks stood out from the rest of the evening's coverage, which followed the line often taken by Russian state media in similar circumstances - denial and wry bemusement that anyone should be pointing the finger at Russia.
 

finowns

Member
I was happy to hear this. Russia has got to chill out. A non-violent way to obtain this is if the international community tells them they are acting like a nut.
 
So how many of these countries denied Edward Snowden refuge when he fled the US to avoid being "heart attacked"?

It's absolutely insane how the media has manipulated a profession full of war criminals and murderers and torturers into "heroes".

"Our IC is so upstanding! They never turned countries over to ISIS or kidnapped children for LSD experiments or killed an American citizen and a party of innocent wedding attendees or killed their own traitors. But that other one that killed their traitor crossed a line!"
 
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finowns

Member
So how many of these countries denied Edward Snowden refuge when he fled the US to avoid being "heart attacked"?

It's absolutely insane how the media has manipulated a profession full of war criminals and murderers and torturers into "heroes".

"Our IC is so upstanding! They never turned countries over to ISIS or kidnapped children for LSD experiments or killed an American citizen and a party of innocent wedding attendees or killed their own traitors. But that other one that killed their traitor crossed a line!"

So I’m not understanding you’re position the West should have no response to Russia’s attack and international law doesn’t matter if you are killing father and daughter traitors?
 
So I’m not understanding you’re position the West should have no response to Russia’s attack and international law doesn’t matter if you are killing father and daughter traitors?

So who does that when West drones a wedding or drives a whistleblower into hiding under threat of assassination?

I just hate sanctimonious hypocrisy.
 

KINGMOKU

Member
Speaking of the media, look at these articles of the exact same story.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/politics/trump-expels-russian-diplomats-analysis/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...n-diplomats-closure-consulate-in-seattle.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/26/russia-expelled-484752

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...da3d8e-30f0-11e8-8bdd-cdb33a5eef83_story.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43545565


Its insane the different tone in all if these articles and the numbers seem to be different in some as well. You have to read many different articles to actually get at the truth of what exactly happened most if not all of these "news sites" can't help themselves in adding layers and layers of commentary and side reporting.

The bias from different sides is what is pissing people like me off. Report the actual news, not what you think is going on, or how it affects "your side".

"Strong messege by Trump"
"Trump stays cozy with Putin while.."

*sigh*
 

finowns

Member
So who does that when West drones a wedding or drives a whistleblower into hiding under threat of assassination?

I just hate sanctimonious hypocrisy.

There’s nothing sanctimonious about it there must be a response to Russia’s aggression your other points are irrelevant in this case.
 
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There’s nothing sanctimonious about it there must be a response to Russia’s aggression your other points are irrelevant in this case.

They killed a former spy who betrayed them. No IC has ever done anything so heinous, so aggressive!

It's not like the US covered up the offing of Michael Hastings or anything!

All this handwringing over Russia is hilarious.
 

Shamylov

Member
They killed a former spy who betrayed them. No IC has ever done anything so heinous, so aggressive!

It's not like the US covered up the offing of Michael Hastings or anything!

All this handwringing over Russia is hilarious.

It’s one thing to dislike the hypocrisy but it really seems like you’re “both-sides-ing” this issue. Whatever your personal feelings on this may be, the better conversation we could having is on whether this is an appropriate response or how Russia might respond, etc, not how little you dislike propaganda from adversarial countries. I mean, c’mon now.
 
It’s one thing to dislike the hypocrisy but it really seems like you’re “both-sides-ing” this issue. Whatever your personal feelings on this may be, the better conversation we could having is on whether this is an appropriate response or how Russia might respond, etc, not how little you dislike propaganda from adversarial countries. I mean, c’mon now.

Why should other countries not have the right to do the same thing we do to them?

And it's not that I have little dislike for propaganda, but rather little propaganda at all. I am supposed to believe a handful of Twitter bots and Facebook ads played any substantial role in an election with billions spent on ads? Show me the direct evidence that they meant a thing beyond the propaganda the EU and Saudis funded.
 
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Shamylov

Member
Why should other countries not have the right to do the same thing we do to them?

And it's not that I have little dislike for propaganda, but rather little propaganda at all. I am supposed to believe a handful of Twitter bots and Facebook ads played any substantial role in an election with billions spent on ads? Show me the direct evidence that they meant a thing beyond the propaganda the EU and Saudis funded.

These are topics for entirely different conversations. Let's not derail this thread.
 

finowns

Member
They killed a former spy who betrayed them. No IC has ever done anything so heinous, so aggressive!

It's not like the US covered up the offing of Michael Hastings or anything!

All this handwringing over Russia is hilarious.

Again what response would you like to see, none at all? And can you give us the criteria on when we can do some ‘handwringing’ about Russia?

Also, what does Michael Hastings have to do with anything?
 
Again what response would you like to see, none at all? And can you give us the criteria on when we can do some ‘handwringing’ about Russia?

Also, what does Michael Hastings have to do with anything?

Isn't an IC murdering a journalist worse than an IC murdering one of their ilk?

It's like the difference between a bank robber shooting a teller and a bank robber shooting a fellow robber.
 
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Again what response would you like to see, none at all? And can you give us the criteria on when we can do some ‘handwringing’ about Russia?

Also, what does Michael Hastings have to do with anything?

Pretty much none at all, but that goes for everything. The US tends to screw up countries when we give a response. Based on our track record, I could see escalating responses putting someone far worse than Putin into power, like what happened in Libya and in Egypt after the Arab Spring op.
 
Let's confront undeniable facts with "remote control of a car" conspiracy, shall we?

Or exploding car, considering how the engine was launched.

Right after he pisses off the MIC and has the FBI sicced on him.

Totally a coincidence!

Somehow I doubt you would have the same incredulity if Stormy Daniels suddenly went fishing and was lost at sea.
 
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llien

Member
Or exploding car, considering how the engine was launched.

Crashed cars explode sometimes.
He's not even a fly on US scale.
There isn't a single government official in US that would give a flying fuck about him.
It's hard to imagine US officials engaging in personal vendetta against a journalist who offended someone out there, who had been fired long a go.

People die in accidents all the time. Sometimes, quite rarely, it might be an investigative journalist, on of the thousands if not tens of thousands in the US.

Comparing that to what's going on in Russia, where former KGB colonel controlling the country scrubs his ego by killing deflectors, is strange, to put it mildly.
 

finowns

Member
Speaking of the media, look at these articles of the exact same story.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/politics/trump-expels-russian-diplomats-analysis/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...n-diplomats-closure-consulate-in-seattle.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/26/russia-expelled-484752

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...da3d8e-30f0-11e8-8bdd-cdb33a5eef83_story.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43545565


Its insane the different tone in all if these articles and the numbers seem to be different in some as well. You have to read many different articles to actually get at the truth of what exactly happened most if not all of these "news sites" can't help themselves in adding layers and layers of commentary and side reporting.

The bias from different sides is what is pissing people like me off. Report the actual news, not what you think is going on, or how it affects "your side".

"Strong messege by Trump"
"Trump stays cozy with Putin while.."

*sigh*


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-finally-went-too-far/ar-BBKM0N5?ocid=spartanntp

I liked this story although it reads into my own worldview where (I hope) this actually makes Putin pause at the very least. Also, gives a bit of a run down of Russia's recent antics. And I did enjoy the line: 'Russia needs the West more than the West needs Russia.'
 

KINGMOKU

Member
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-finally-went-too-far/ar-BBKM0N5?ocid=spartanntp

I liked this story although it reads into my own worldview where (I hope) this actually makes Putin pause at the very least. Also, gives a bit of a run down of Russia's recent antics. And I did enjoy the line: 'Russia needs the West more than the West needs Russia.'
This is a good article and opinion piece and worldtake. It doesn't go into invention territory (CNN is so bad for this)so many places go, and it takes a chess players view of what is happening.

Talking about the situation, not the politics if it(repub/dem b.s.)

Thanks for the article!
 

makaveli60

Member
Is there any evidence? Solidarity... hypocrisy at its finest. The western world and its masters are just slowly driving the world into anonther war. Fuck them and fuck their stupid sheeps.
 
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Geki-D

Banned
Where is the evidence that Putin did it?
Does he have an alibi for that day?

From what I understand only people who wanted him dead was Russia and he was killed using a compound made and only found in Russia. Far as I'm aware that's the most they have. That, and I guess Russia's recent history of doing shitty stuff.
 

llien

Member
Assumptions=evidence?

Military grade substance produced in Russia has been used in UK against 'traitor'. Who could have done it, huh? Who had motivations to do it?

Years before that, another former Russian agent, Litvinenko:

suVT87a.png


was poisoned with radioactive substance, allegedly polonium-210 by this Mister:

mv6F4iL.png


Who denied that the plane that Lugovoi used was contaminated with radiation, contrary to the evidence? You guess it.

The judge said he was sure Lugovoy and Kovtun had placed the polonium 210 in a teapot at the Millennium Hotel's Pine Bar on Nov. 1, 2006. Traces of the highly radioactive substance were found at several sites across the city including offices, hotels, planes and Arsenal soccer club's Emirates Stadium.

The ex-spy was regarded as having betrayed the FSB by accusing it of 1999 apartment block bombings that killed more than 200 and which Moscow, launching an offensive to restore control over the southern region of Chechnya, blamed on Chechens. The FSB also had information Litvinenko had started working for British intelligence.

kcrg.com

And, wait for it, what who's Lugovoi now (in Russia)? A hero, member of the parliament!
 
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makaveli60

Member
Military grade substance produced in Russia has been used in UK against 'traitor'. Who could have done it, huh? Who had motivations to do it?

Years before that, another former Russian agent, Litvinenko:

suVT87a.png


was poisoned with radioactive substance, allegedly polonium-210 by this Mister:

mv6F4iL.png


Who denied that the plane that Lugovoi used was contaminated with radiation, contrary to the evidence? You guess it.





kcrg.com

And, wait for it, what who's Lugovoi now (in Russia)? A hero, member of the parliament!
Okay, maybe that is true but does that automatically mean that this is true as well?

The problem is that in my opinion the western rulers have much more motivation to do it (while making it seem it was done by the Russians).

And don't take me wrong, I'm not saying that the Russians are angels etc. but you should take a look around the world and what is happening and think for yourself.
 
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JDB

Banned
Okay, maybe that is true but does that automatically mean that this is true as well?

The problem is that in my opinion the western rulers have much more motivation to do it (while making it seem it was done by the Russians).

And don't take me wrong, I'm not saying that the Russians are angels etc. but you should take a look around the world and what is happening and think for yourself.
Well, let us know when you find something.
 

Hissing Sid

Member
Fucking UK news channels are unwatchable atm due to this bollox. The Cuntminister and Boris are really laying it on thick.

Not so long back we had a determined effort by the military brass to convince the country that military spending needed to be increased. Some gold braided Rupert was wheeled out for the cameras to remind us all that the Klingons were still out there and that we therefore needed to bulk up our ‘defenses’ all along the neutral zone.

Obviously our boys bleeding in the sand for the cameras ain’t so popular these days, so they’ve had to wheel out another bogeyman for unpopular consumption.

Russian incursions into our airspace is suddenly top story news, even though that shits been going on since the fucking Cold War and both sides do it to check on interceptor response times and defence network detection capabilities.

And would you believe it, the Russian bogeyman all of a sudden starts killing peeps in the UK with his awful, deadly poison.

How very fucking convenient.

If the Russians did sanction the crime = it’s time to make media hay.

If the Russians didn’t sanction the crime = it’s time to make media hay.

If the crime had nothing to do with the Russians = It’s time to make media hay.

Anything to get the spotlight off what a bunch of awful human beings we currently have running the country.

I’d have a lot more faith in what our political masters and propaganda media channels had to say were it not for the fact that the lying smeg-whiffs literally made shit up not so long back and took us all to war.

A war in which thousands upon thousands of innocent men, women and children were killed. A war that destabilised and fucked up an entire region. A war that still affects us all today.

A war that I marched against and wrote to my MP to protest. For all the good it did.

But yeah, totally not making shit up or spinning things to suit this time around.

Just Fuck off.
 
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makaveli60

Member
Fucking UK news channels are unwatchable atm due to this bollox. The Cuntminister and Boris are really laying it on thick.

Not so long back we had a determined effort by the military brass to convince the country that military spending needed to be increased. Some gold braided Rupert was wheeled out for the cameras to remind us all that the Klingons were still out there and that we therefore needed to bulk up our ‘defenses’ all along the neutral zone.

Obviously our boys bleeding in the sand for the cameras ain’t so popular these days, so they’ve had to wheel out another bogeyman for unpopular consumption.

Russian incursions into our airspace is suddenly top story news, even though that shits been going on since the fucking Cold War and both sides do it to check on interceptor response times and defence network detection capabilities.

And would you believe it, the Russian bogeyman all of a sudden starts killing peeps in the UK with his awful, deadly poison.

How very fucking convenient.

If the Russians did sanction the crime = it’s time to make media hay.

If the Russians didn’t sanction the crime = it’s time to make media hay.

If the crime had nothing to do with the Russians = It’s time to make media hay.

Anything to get the spotlight off what a bunch off awful human beings we currently have running the country.

I’d have a lot more faith in what our political masters and propaganda media channels had to say were it not for the fact that the lying smeg-whiffs literally made shit up not so long back and took us all to war.

A war in which thousands upon thousands of innocent men, women and children were killed. A war that destabilised and fucked up an entire region. A war that still affects us all today.

A war that I marched against and wrote to my MP to protest. For all the good it did.

But yeah, totally not making shit up or spinning things to suit this time around.

Just Fuck off.
Thank you.

Ilien: My opinion is based on a lot of things and this is not the place and time to talk about them. The internet has a lot of information (for now at least) available, anyone can educate themselves.

Hissing Sid's post is a good starting point.
 
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finowns

Member
Fucking UK news channels are unwatchable atm due to this bollox. The Cuntminister and Boris are really laying it on thick.

Not so long back we had a determined effort by the military brass to convince the country that military spending needed to be increased. Some gold braided Rupert was wheeled out for the cameras to remind us all that the Klingons were still out there and that we therefore needed to bulk up our ‘defenses’ all along the neutral zone.

Obviously our boys bleeding in the sand for the cameras ain’t so popular these days, so they’ve had to wheel out another bogeyman for unpopular consumption.

Russian incursions into our airspace is suddenly top story news, even though that shits been going on since the fucking Cold War and both sides do it to check on interceptor response times and defence network detection capabilities.

And would you believe it, the Russian bogeyman all of a sudden starts killing peeps in the UK with his awful, deadly poison.

How very fucking convenient.

If the Russians did sanction the crime = it’s time to make media hay.

If the Russians didn’t sanction the crime = it’s time to make media hay.

If the crime had nothing to do with the Russians = It’s time to make media hay.

Anything to get the spotlight off what a bunch off awful human beings we currently have running the country.

I’d have a lot more faith in what our political masters and propaganda media channels had to say were it not for the fact that the lying smeg-whiffs literally made shit up not so long back and took us all to war.

A war in which thousands upon thousands of innocent men, women and children were killed. A war that destabilised and fucked up an entire region. A war that still affects us all today.

A war that I marched against and wrote to my MP to protest. For all the good it did.

But yeah, totally not making shit up or spinning things to suit this time around.

Just Fuck off.

So May attacked or ordered an attack on a Russian ‘traitor’ and his daughter using a Russian chemical so as to frame Russia so they, the UK, can increase their defense budget?
 
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Hissing Sid

Member
So May attacked or ordered an attack on a Russian ‘traitor’ and his daughter using a Russian chemical so as to frame Russia so they can increase their defense budget?

Shrug.

So Prime Minister Blair, senior advisors and members of the intelligence community colluded to lie to the people about the threat posed by Saddam Hussain so that a war could be waged in their name?

....


I don’t know what’s gone on. I do know that I don’t trust a single, solitary word coming out of the UK government.
 

finowns

Member
Shrug.

So Prime Minister Blair, senior advisors and members of the intelligence community colluded to lie to the people about the threat posed by Saddam Hussain so that a war could be waged in their name?

....


I don’t know what’s gone on. I do know that I don’t trust a single, solitary word coming out of the UK government.

Russia does have a recognizable pattern of behavior that shouldn’t be controversial.
 
So let’s assume for a moment that Ivan did it.

What part does going after one of their own former spies play in the recognisable behaviour pattern?

Other than Putin in his own words warning his people that traitors should expect death?

"Traitors will kick the bucket. Trust me."
- Vladimir Putin
 

Hissing Sid

Member
Right so nobody knows then, just as I thought. It’s all conjecture and speculation.

Obviously my conjecture and speculation is tinfoil hattery whilst other people’s conjecture and speculation is based upon common sense, logic and known patterns of behaviour.

K den.

The only peeps who really know the truth are the Russians and the Brits.

The Russians are denying it.

The Brits have another dossier and they’ve shown it to their buddy’s. Some have been convinced. Some haven’t.

And there we have it.

You know what? I think that maybe The Russians did sanction this and they’ve played right into the UK governments hands.

I think that May and co don’t give a flying crap about some no-name ex spy and his daughter beyond the political expediency that can be milked from them.

I do think Russia is our new/old bogey man and the media are being used to build this up.

I think if some Chinese ex spy were poisoned it wouldn’t even make the news.

I think I don’t believe anything that comes out of my governments mouth.
 

dogmaan

Girl got arse pubes.
I think if some Chinese ex spy were poisoned it wouldn’t even make the news.

I think I don’t believe anything that comes out of my governments mouth.

Why do you think that the news organisations would ignore a Chinese spy being killed via nerve gas?
 

Geki-D

Banned
Okay, maybe that is true but does that automatically mean that this is true as well?

The problem is that in my opinion the western rulers have much more motivation to do it (while making it seem it was done by the Russians)
Like what? A literal war with everything that that entails including a direct thread to the UK itself to just rise defence budget? Does that honestly sound reasonable to you?
Shrug.

So Prime Minister Blair, senior advisors and members of the intelligence community colluded to lie to the people about the threat posed by Saddam Hussain so that a war could be waged in their name?

....


I don’t know what’s gone on. I do know that I don’t trust a single, solitary word coming out of the UK government.
-A lie for a war against an impoverish nation on the other side of the world with seemingly no real threat to the UK bar it's soldiers.
-Murdering a guy on British soil to potentially cause a war against a well armed, nuclear equipped nation that could result in London getting bombed.

One of these things is not like the other...
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
The UK lying is a possibility, yes. Do a study on admitted false flag attacks.

Yet also, jihadists are another possibility. Soviet weapons of all kinds were throughout the Middle East in the time this agent was made, and many of those places have been raided by terrorists. If there are two enemies you can’t beat, you can try to make them fight each other.

A lot of former Soviet agents became Russian mobs and have dealings all over the world. They still kill people they don’t like for various reasons now and then.

But no, none of these are reasonable possibilities, apparently. Instead I am supposed to believe Putin is so stupid and arrogant that he’d do something so in the open with archaic methods on UK land when he knows the entire western world is always looking to pin him to the wall.

Evidence, please. As I said before, this kind of shit is how WWI started. I want evidence before doing such drastic things that push us ever closer to the third. I don’t give a shit about Putin but I do care about the consequences of our actions that are based on unsubstantiated claims.

People in here defending Putin? Really?
Defending life. Wars do not just pop out of nowhere. They are the last in a series of failures of effort to save relations. I see many accompanying articles like this everywhere: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...8-hours-warns-ex-military-chief-a7315976.html

And I am to believe only diplomatic punishment is in the discussion? Have you spent much time studying what happened before wars of the last century, how people were talking?
 
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Putin could have work the British government to solve this if he believes Russia is innocent in all of this instead of giving the cold shoulder
 
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Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Putin could have work the British government to solve this if he believes Russia is innocent in all of this instead of giving the cold shoulder
They didn’t allow Russia to assist in the investigation and then sent Russia’s people home and told them to shut up. If Russia knows they weren’t at fault, what could they do when they see the UK made up their mind?
 
What bothers me is that any proper investigation would have taken more than a day. On the surface it definitely points to Russia but how can they know for sure.
 

nightfly

Member
I don't see what the big deal is. Not like we don't mindlessly go around killing people for purely selfish/greedy reasons.
 
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