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Remember the guy who helped a thousand people get their eyesight back?
- Thread starter Spyxos
- Start date
Spyxos
Member
I understand that it is not comparable to the American bills, but for the old people the few was also a lot of money.Hundreds of euros total for months in the hospital?
Fair. At that point, people with fixed/limited incomes shouldn't need to pay, since it's not recouping the actual costs to any substantial degree either way.
Vicetrailia
Member
*looks towards certain borders*
The worst system is within our own borders.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/08/health/primary-care-doctors-consolidation.html
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You are the one who mentioned population growth. Millions and millions of influx breaking fiscal records would be very taxing, yes.
Meicyn
Gold Member
He doesn’t? Thank you for this information, I had no idea.
CuNi
Member
That's weird, because while it's 10€ a day (that one also depends on your insurance) it's limited to 280€ per year.
So after 28 days, it doesn't matter if you stay 30 days or 60 in the hospital.
Costs usually go up if you want a private room, or a more comfy hospital bed than the normal ones, but that's all "extra".
So yes, it obviously isn't free, but it's as close as you can be to the point many consider it "free".
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
BS my dude, she did not. Whatever she payed there was some fancy out of the ordinary ordeal like a separate room for her and her husband or had the birth at her home etc.
Just going to the hospital, getting the baby, staying there a couple of days ... after all the check ups cost us 0EUR. We even got stuff to care for him for the first couple of days and a nice card with his feet and hand prints for free... lol
Spyxos
Member
I can only say that what she told me. I was not there. They were upset about the expensive bill.
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Spyxos
Member
I did not know that the payment has a limit. I was there for 7 days and I paid for them too.
AlteredForms
Banned
Am I wrong though? Universal healthcare in America would be through the roof for the taxpayer.This is how they got you:
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
And I tell you the "gesetzliche Krankenkasse" is dealing with every part regarding cost of birth. Not even the 10EUR a day apply.
No matter if you have a natural birth (with birth pool usage) or a c-section, post birth midwife visits, pre birth childbirth preparation workshop for booth parent, or extensive care for premature born baby's. Or, that happened to the child of a friend of mine, six months of intensive care and a bunch of operations, fixing its intestine being outside its body problem.
Your sister being upset about cost at birth makes no sense. The hospital is rather upfront about what service costs money etc.
Spyxos
Member
As I said, I was in the hospital for 7 days and I paid 70 euros for it.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
But you did not get a child.
Spyxos
Member
In the beginning I was talking about 2 different things: hospitalization and birth. You brought them together.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
No you said your sis in law payed 1000EUR for birth. Thats not an argument to make when discussing hospital cost in Germany.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
You are still wrong. On booth accounts. Because its not that simple. Hospitalization is free in certain situations. Birth, ambulant emergencies, as a result of an accident etc.
Puscifer
Member
I mean on one hand I can understand how ridiculous it is that we have a medical system that gate keeps shit like this. But the people blaming a single YouTuber really shows how smooth brained they're being that he could suddenly dump 100% of his cash into it and make some kind of dent in the system. Diabetic medication went down in price from being trolled by Twitter to save their share price.
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Your car can talk to you?
But seriously, that sucks.pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Yeah, I think you are, I'm afraid.
It feels like a very internet forum thing to do, to Google stats and figures and throw them back and forth at one another. But everyone can find stats and ignore them so I won't bother.
Ok, one quick stat.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, America spends more of its GDP on healthcare than any other country.
Other countries spend less and manage to provide healthcare for all.
Why can't America?
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Puscifer
Member
No, I'm agreeing with his sarcasm and the people who are saying Mr Beast is an asshole are the idiots. Mr Beast isn't even making as much money as he used too as they lose about a million dollars a video from my understanding.
Think about that, he LOSES a million dollars per video and people expect him to fix the medical system he'd go bankrupt in six weeks.
I also edited my original post to add more context
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AlteredForms
Banned
Because those other countries don't have over 300 million fucking people. It's a logistical thing man, there isn't enough to go around. And like I said before there's tonnes of drug addicts, baby mamas and fat bastards that would put a strain on a universal healthcare system. Then come the protests from the regular taxpayers and following that come the riots.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Your car can talk to you?
Sorry. Audi is deaf slang for audiologist.
I was guessing it was something like that but also wanted to make that joke.
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TheDreadBaron
Member
I agree there will always be people looking to take advantage and people have a tendency to abuse resources that are given for free, like a teenager whose rich parents bought them a nice new car that they wreck a week later.
However, I don’t see the logic in the argument that the USA is just too big to provide healthcare. There’s freeloaders in every system, is this attitude so much more prevalent in the US that it will sink any attempt? More people means more people abusing the system, but also more taxpayers paying into the system. I don’t see any reason why healthcare should be so much less efficient in the US, except for the profit motives of the business interests involved. These scary projections of how insurmountable the costs would be are based off these insanely inflated prices.
They’re squeezing all the blood they can out of sick people to make a few people at the top outrageously wealthy. I’m ready to try something different, because navigating the current system is horrid. Trying to get basic medical care everyone tells you no and you have to fight for every little thing. I was not exaggerating, one single medicine my wife needs to function is 800 dollars a month. She had to switch insurance providers twice recently and every time they fight covering any if it. If you have any chronic condition you’re basically fucked. Do you think this is the best we can do?
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I think you misunderstand how scale works. Yes, 300 million is a bigger number than 3 million.
But when everyone pays into the system, the cost per head is broadly the same. In fact, some things get cheaper when they are paid for in larger quantities.
China's universal healthcare is tiered with workers in urban areas receiving better insurance than rural workers and the unemployed. The urban insurance is OK but the other categories are quite shit with high copays and much lower access to care. None of the programs covers the full cost of care either.
To answer your question of how China affords it: brute force. Insurance isn't national. Municipalities form their own insurance pools based on household registration (hukou). No access to that top tier of insurance if you're not registered in the city either. You can work in Shanghai and still get rural or non working insurance. If that pool runs out of money then the municipal government has to top up the difference. The percentage of salary an employee pays into healthcare is also higher than the US.
The system is actually under incredible strain due to an ageing population and a more integrated economy that is harder to price fix.
The US spends around 1.4 trillion dollars on national healthcare that doesn't cover the whole population. Nearly twice what it spends on defense. The cost for full national healthcare will be astronomical before you consider the raises in taxes that need to accompany it.
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AlteredForms
Banned
This is basically optimistic talk from the both of you about how a universal healthcare system would work in theory. The reality is going to be much more different as there are those people who don't want to pay for somebody else's baggage, and costs are going to increase rather than go down. And I don't see it as a viable comparison to other countries because the US is full of fucked up people, more than any other nation on Earth. There's too much chaos and divisive opinions to make a system like this work, I don't see it happening, it works in smaller countries but not juggernauts like the US.
scoobidoo112
Member
Well surely if quite literally every developed country on planet earth has figured it out and made it work, then surely the fucking 'U-S of A', the greatest, bestest, most god-blessed, number one, ass-kicking, freedom loving country in the universe can figure it out as well, right?
Unless you're telling me that not letting people either die or go into crippling debt when they get sick is just too hard? Harder than waging trillion dollar wars?
And besides all that, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security seem to have been working just fine for the last few decades. So if your logic was in any way valid, then those systems would have never been set up either, nor would they have functioned as properly as they have. People pay for plenty of things that go towards others, like building roads, funding the police and fire departments, the postal office, car insurance, etc, so that sounds like a poor excuse to me.
You seem to have been convinced that this is an issue of size and scale, when really it's an issue of willpower, lobbying and profit-motive. You're being charged the highest prices for prescription drugs in the world for a reason.
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sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
The EU has 300mill citizens and made universal HC work.
But I can understand successful and healthy people not wanting to share their money for the greater good. 42% of my income goes to the government in taxes and social security (for everyone).
On the flip side, where I live (Munich) I can go to every part of town at any time of day and not fear getting robbed. So I actually buy social peace with the obscenely high taxes and sozial security payments.
It’s a fairer system for the not so well off but makes it hard to accumulate money thought work only.
It’s a trade off.
But I can understand successful and healthy people not wanting to share their money for the greater good. 42% of my income goes to the government in taxes and social security (for everyone).
On the flip side, where I live (Munich) I can go to every part of town at any time of day and not fear getting robbed. So I actually buy social peace with the obscenely high taxes and sozial security payments.
It’s a fairer system for the not so well off but makes it hard to accumulate money thought work only.
It’s a trade off.
Dirk Benedict
Member
The Federal Reserve is one of the biggest shams in modern history. I think it started with the Gold Reserve Act of 1934. I need to give that one another read. Been a couple of decades since I went down that rabbit hole. My memory hazy. *takes another toke* Ahh. No Wonder.