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[Shin Johnpv]

I don't have an everdrive yet, its definitely on my list. Honestly I'm waiting right now cause we need to be out of our current place by Jan 8th and we haven't found a new place yet. So with everdrives being back ordered and no idea when they're going to ship I'm waiting till we move to order the N8.

I also picked up an NES to Famicom adapter, playing a ton of NES on it last night. Batman and TMNT 2 (the arcade one) look AMAZING.

 

[Khaz]

Is it the same thing causing comb artefacts when i play Saturn on an LCD through composite? (i'm in between setups for a while ). I've also noticed it on say, a PS3 through HDMI to LCD, running the PSN's KOF Orochi saga (Japanese version). Would that cause the same issue?

Yes. Your LCD doesn't understand 240p, treats it as 480i. Same as the Elgato.

 

[D.Lo]

Yeah, kicks ass. If you have an Everdrive, fire up Lagrange Point, Gimmick, Akumajou Densetsu and FFS games. The emulation of expansion audio is excellent. Can't get that with the NESRGB + Everdrive combo.

Er, Everdrive is pretty bad at expansion audio really. All are incorrect to the originals, some still sound good/decent (Dracula, Larange Point) but FDS expansion audio is so bad I'd go so far as to say the N8 is not actually fully compatible with games that use it. The expansion sound is actually out of tune with the normal audio.

On a similar point, AV Famicom expansion audio is itself wrong, the mix levels are off and the extra channels are often too loud (actually the main channels are too quiet)! Ironically the Everdrive used to be much too quiet on expansion audio so it kind of evened out, a firmware update added a switch to select the audio level. This was actually removed in a recent firmware update, locking it at the high level for some reason.

 

[geniusbits]

Micomsoft and OSSC questions:

1) Haven't seen talk of new Micomsoft device for a while here, when we used to debate whether it would be in 2015 or 2016 lol. Seems like their schedule totally changed, which makes sense because the Framemeister is much more than the simple upgrade the previous XRGBs were to each other. The Framemeister still has a lot of life in it, people are still buying it, and the OSSC or other options are not "better" but simply different, and better in one or two things but worse in others. Having said that, does anyone have a prediction for the next device, or if they will even make one? They could hang their hat for a long time on the Framemeister.

2) The OSSC does not have S-video in correct? Has anyone seen talk of putting that in future units? I use S-video for N64 and 3DO, and don't really care to get them modded for RGB I think S-video is just fine. Not having an S-video input is a deal breaker for me on an upscaler.

 

[BTails]

Er, Everdrive is pretty bad at expansion audio really. All are incorrect to the originals, some still sound good/decent (Dracula, Larange Point) but FDS expansion audio is so bad I'd go so far as to say the N8 is not actually fully compatible with games that use it. The expansion sound is actually out of tune with the normal audio.

The HiDef HDMI mod handels the audio differently, and it has pretty rock solid audio emulation, including Lagrange Point, which I don't believe is playable with music on a Flashcart any other way.

It's the one thing I miss about my Analogue NT, to be honest. Though i'm glad I kicked it to the curb and got a full refund, considering the fact that it froze/glitched out all the freaking time when playing my Everdrive.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Micomsoft and OSSC questions:
2) The OSSC does not have S-video in correct? Has anyone seen talk of putting that in future units? I use S-video for N64 and 3DO, and don't really care to get them modded for RGB I think S-video is just fine. Not having an S-video input is a deal breaker for me on an upscaler.

EDIT: NVM, bad info. It seems S-video wouldn't work through the VGA input:

AV3 (VGA)
VGA/HD-15 input supports video in RGBHV, RGBS (pin 13), RGsB and YPbPr formats. RGBHV and RGBS modes require clean TTL-level sync signals and cannot extract sync from composite/luma. VGA input is best suited for high-quality input sources as video LPF functionality is limited (SCART and Component inputs are routed through a dedicated LPF chip). Therefore, it is generally recommended to connect older consoles and arcade boards to other inputs.

 

[Mega]

Er, Everdrive is pretty bad at expansion audio really. All are incorrect to the originals, some still sound good/decent (Dracula, Larange Point) but FDS expansion audio is so bad I'd go so far as to say the N8 is not actually fully compatible with games that use it. The expansion sound is actually out of tune with the normal audio.

On a similar point, AV Famicom expansion audio is itself wrong, the mix levels are off and the extra channels are often too loud (actually the main channels are too quiet)! Ironically the Everdrive used to be much too quiet on expansion audio so it kind of evened out, a firmware update added a switch to select the audio level. This was actually removed in a recent firmware update, locking it at the high level for some reason.

I was referring to the expansion audio capabilities of the Hi-Def mod

I know the Everdrive is lacking in this area. The mod's audio sounds accurate and the levels can be fine tuned if you think they're off. I leave it at default levels. Comparing VC6, VC7, FDS audio, etc between my modded Famicom and original hardware audio capture uploaded on Youtube, it sounds virtually identical to me.

It's so good that I've seen some Everdrive owners ask KrikZZ to reach out to Kevtris and license his audio emulation tech (wishful thinking, will probably never happen). The new Analogue NT itself is basically a partnership with Kevtris and will come with the Hi-Def's full audio capabilities (among the other usual features).

The HiDef HDMI mod handels the audio differently, and it has pretty rock solid audio emulation, including Lagrange Point, which I don't believe is playable with music on a Flashcart any other way.

Agreed.

 

[Brhoom]

Ok, this looks like a great My Life In Gaming video.

So, how is the AVS handling of Famicom audio?

I wanted to buy a famicom disk system on Sunday, I went to the retro store and... 230$ usd dollars.

It's like they are begging me to just emulate, I just can't look at emulation the way I did before, it looks "fake" to me.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

So, how is the AVS handling of Famicom audio?

I wanted to buy a famicom disk system on Sunday, I went to the retro store and... 230$ usd dollars.

The AVS handles audio very well in my opinion. I was impressed, but I've had no real prior experience with NES.

Also, you can find much better deals on the FDS online.

 

[geniusbits]

The OSSC has component, SCART, and VGA in. You could buy a S-video to VGA adapter as a workaround.

How does that work? Are there a pins in d-sub15 that carry luminance and chrominance, and does the VGA input on the OSSC take that signal on that input? Cause S-video is not anything like RGBhv.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

How does that work? Are there a pins in d-sub15 that carry luminance and chrominance, and does the VGA input on the OSSC take that signal on that input? Cause S-video is not anything like RGBhv.

Ah, good point, wouldn't work with s-video:

AV3 (VGA)
VGA/HD-15 input supports video in RGBHV, RGBS (pin 13), RGsB and YPbPr formats. RGBHV and RGBS modes require clean TTL-level sync signals and cannot extract sync from composite/luma. VGA input is best suited for high-quality input sources as video LPF functionality is limited (SCART and Component inputs are routed through a dedicated LPF chip). Therefore, it is generally recommended to connect older consoles and arcade boards to other inputs.

 

[BTails]

Ok, this looks like a great My Life In Gaming video.

So, how is the AVS handling of Famicom audio?

I wanted to buy a famicom disk system on Sunday, I went to the retro store and... 230$ usd dollars.

It's like they are begging me to just emulate, I just can't look at emulation the way I did before, it looks "fake" to me.

A few of us in the thread (myself included) have the FDSStick, which is amazing. You can get an FDS RAM adapter rather cheap online, and the FDSStick acts as the disk drive. One side has USB, plug it into your computer and put FDS images on it, then the other side connects to the Ram Adapter. There's a button on it for switching sides.

That's a much cheaper way to jump into FDS, and you don't have to deal with mechanical problems in the disk drive itself (jams, worn out belts, etc...)

 

[mattynunchucks]

A few of us in the thread (myself included) have the FDSStick, which is amazing. You can get an FDS RAM adapter rather cheap online, and the FDSStick acts as the disk drive. One side has USB, plug it into your computer and put FDS images on it, then the other side connects to the Ram Adapter. There's a button on it for switching sides.

That's a much cheaper way to jump into FDS, and you don't have to deal with mechanical problems in the disk drive itself (jams, worn out belts, etc...)

Oh, wow, that looks awesome! I bought a FDS earlier this year and it works great and the seller replaced the belt, but i'm always terrified that this is going to be the time the thing breaks. My fire for buying FDS games went out a lot after I got a copy of Metroid that has a disk defect that the game crashes whenever you try to go to Norfair.

 

[Laevateinn]

Oh, wow, that looks awesome! I bought a FDS earlier this year and it works great and the seller replaced the belt, but i'm always terrified that this is going to be the time the thing breaks. My fire for buying FDS games went out a lot after I got a copy of Metroid that has a disk defect that the game crashes whenever you try to go to Norfair.

My issue with FDS is that my copy of Doki Doki Panic is Dr. Chaos.

 

[RoryDropkick]

My issue with FDS is that my copy of Doki Doki Panic is Dr. Chaos.

Doki Doki Chaos?

 

[Mega]

How does that work? Are there a pins in d-sub15 that carry luminance and chrominance, and does the VGA input on the OSSC take that signal on that input? Cause S-video is not anything like RGBhv.

You need a converter. I was going to recommend this Composite/Svideo-to-RGB converter since I have an almost identical RGB-to-Composite/Svideo converter that works really well, but apparently Videogameperfection reviewed a rebranded version and it sucks or at least he got a faulty unit. What I'd like to know is where these converters come from. Like I said, mine worked well but I would've liked to cut out the middleman and paid less.

This looks like the only other viable option and being that it's Extron (industry grade equipment), I'm certain it works flawlessly. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extron-Multi-Standard-Decoder-CD-400-/332054285088

 

[mattynunchucks]

My issue with FDS is that my copy of Doki Doki Panic is Dr. Chaos.

My copy of Doki Doki Panic is the actual game, but the person who had it before me beat it with every character and as far as I can tell, there's no way to reset progress on it.

 

[RadarScope1]

Nice to see more FDS Stick talk here. Glad it's getting good reviews from GAFers. I will hopefully get one soon. They're cheap and I already have a RAM adaptor -- I just need to pull the trigger. Maybe a stocking stuffer to myself for Xmas....

 

[PumpkinSpice]

AV3 (VGA)
VGA/HD-15 input supports video in RGBHV, RGBS (pin 13), RGsB and YPbPr formats. RGBHV and RGBS modes require clean TTL-level sync signals and cannot extract sync from composite/luma. VGA input is best suited for high-quality input sources as video LPF functionality is limited (SCART and Component inputs are routed through a dedicated LPF chip). Therefore, it is generally recommended to connect older consoles and arcade boards to other inputs.

I was looking into this a couple weeks ago but is combined/composite sync on pin 13 a universal thing for VGA? I meant to try it myself on with a soldered together cable on a few monitors and a TV but haven't gotten around to it.

 

[sixteen-bit]

My issue with FDS is that my copy of Doki Doki Panic is Dr. Chaos.

Look into the FDSStick. It should let you rewrite the correct game to the disk, and it's pretty cheap.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Ok, this looks like a great My Life In Gaming video.

So, how is the AVS handling of Famicom audio?

I wanted to buy a famicom disk system on Sunday, I went to the retro store and... 230$ usd dollars.

It's like they are begging me to just emulate, I just can't look at emulation the way I did before, it looks "fake" to me.

That seems insanely high, I think you could find one cheaper on ebay.

 

[IrishNinja]

Nice to see more FDS Stick talk here. Glad it's getting good reviews from GAFers. I will hopefully get one soon. They're cheap and I already have a RAM adaptor -- I just need to pull the trigger. Maybe a stocking stuffer to myself for Xmas....

remind me what these things are & do again?

 

[D.Lo]

FDStick is a cool tool. I need to get a full disk writable drive to write my own disks (I've had my FDS for 20 years so I'm not modding it!)

But nothing will get me away from my real disks. They're too Kawaii.

I was referring to the expansion audio capabilities of the Hi-Def mod

I know the Everdrive is lacking in this area. The mod's audio sounds accurate and the levels can be fine tuned if you think they're off. I leave it at default levels. Comparing VC6, VC7, FDS audio, etc between my modded Famicom and original hardware audio capture uploaded on Youtube, it sounds virtually identical to me.

It's so good that I've seen some Everdrive owners ask KrikZZ to reach out to Kevtris and license his audio emulation tech (wishful thinking, will probably never happen). The new Analogue NT itself is basically a partnership with Kevtris and will come with the Hi-Def's full audio capabilities (among the other usual features).

Agreed.

my bad, had no idea.

That seems odd though, I guess the HDNES must 'undo' what the Everdrive does somehow?

 

[PumpkinSpice]

FDStick is a cool tool. I need to get a full disk writable drive to write my own disks (I've had my FDS for 20 years so I'm not modding it!)

But nothing will get me away from my real disks. They're too Kawaii.

my bad, had no idea.

That seems odd though, I guess the HDNES must 'undo' what the Everdrive does somehow?

Expansion audio is analog audio over a pin on the cartridge slot. The HiDefNES does digital audio over HDMI from inside the console. To do expansion audio, the FPGA reproduces that expansion audio chips and mixes digitally to output on the HDMI.

I don't really know why they couldn't have just done analog to digital for expansion audio to make it more authentic but I'm not a hardware engineer... and also it seems like HiDefNES does a lot of things the inauthentic way considering the compatibility issues it had in the first rev.

I've heard that FDS is still not quite right but maybe not as bad as the Everdrive?

 

[D.Lo]

Expansion audio is analog audio over a pin on the cartridge slot. The HiDefNES does digital audio over HDMI from inside the console. To do expansion audio, the FPGA reproduces that expansion audio chips and mixes digitally to output on the HDMI.

I don't really know why they couldn't have just done analog to digital for expansion audio to make it more authentic but I'm not a hardware engineer... and also it seems like HiDefNES does a lot of things the inauthentic way considering the compatibility issues it had in the first rev.

I've heard that FDS is still not quite right but maybe not as bad as the Everdrive?

That was my point too, how could the HDNES 'undo' what the everdrive has done when the audio has already been generated. So it seems it ignores the cart's analogue signal and regenerates it separately, emulating some cart hardware internally. So even real carts will have their sound emulated instead of passed through. Which is now obvious it must do unless it used a DAC lol.

I'm pretty uninterested in HDMI mods myself so didn't look into it before.

 

[Beer Monkey]

That was my point too, how could the HDNES 'undo' what the everdrive has done when the audio has already been generated. So it seems it ignores the cart's analogue signal and regenerates it separately, emulating some cart hardware internally. So even real carts will have their sound emulated instead of passed through. Which is now obvious it must do unless it used a DAC lol.

I'm pretty uninterested in HDMI mods myself so didn't look into it before.

It would seem all the High Def NES and NT Mini would have to do is intercept the interface both ways between the system and the (real or Everdrive faked) MMC chip on the cartridge and simulate the whole thing, cutting that portion of the cartridge bus out of the loop. Given the FPGA power that isn't a stretch.

 

[Mega]

I didn't think about how the Hi Def is emulating sound from all real carts, not just from expansion audio games on a flash cart. Although... is it the same as plain ol' software emulation and fair to call it that? I always thought of FPGAs as hardware mimicry with greater accuracy than ordinary emulation, basically spot on if it was an excellent core (the PC Engine core on the MiST has iffy audio).

 

[D.Lo]

I didn't think about how the Hi Def is emulating sound from all real carts, not just from expansion audio games on a flash cart. Although... is it the same as plain ol' software emulation and fair to call it that? I always thought of FPGAs as hardware mimicry with greater accuracy than ordinary emulation, basically spot on if it was an excellent core (the PC Engine core on the MiST has iffy audio).

It has potential to be cycle perfect (and lag free?), but like software emulation, it can be wrong. The everdrive uses FGPA to do the expansion audio too, but coded poorly so is incorrect.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

It's not so much that it's not coded correctly as the amount of documentation and public knowledge on expansion audio chips is not where it could be. With FPGAs you can reimplemented hardware but you have to know how the hardware works to do it right.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Did I hear something a while back about using acid baths and microscopes to reverse engineer some expansion chips?

 

[D.Lo]

Yeah I didn't necessarily mean the code quality was bad, but the result is clearly incorrect. It's not reverse engineered, just approximated, and many software approximations have been far better (most decent Fami emulators).

 

[Morfeo]

So, any decent solution for removing jailbars on original Mega Drive? Been googling a bit without finding any working solution so far.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Did I hear something a while back about using acid baths and microscopes to reverse engineer some expansion chips?

That was done for the SNES expansion chips, I don't know if anyone's attempted that sort of thing for the NES stuff. A high quality photo of a decapped chip, assuming it doesn't have any obfuscation, usually helps a lot with reverse engineering.

So, any decent solution for removing jailbars on original Mega Drive? Been googling a bit without finding any working solution so far.

I thought capacitor replacement helped but I've read recently that you can bypass the rgb encoder chip to get better quality and just directly amp the internal rgb lines with a board/chip like in the link.

 

[D.Lo]

Get one of the models with the better encoder lol.

I believe you can cut the composite pin in some as well? Kills composite and you need a pure sync cable after that.

 

[purdobol]

I was looking into this a couple weeks ago but is combined/composite sync on pin 13 a universal thing for VGA?

RGBHV and RGBS is pretty much a standard for VGA.
RGsB and YPbPr is more sparse (only high end monitors support it).

 

[Shin Johnpv]

So, any decent solution for removing jailbars on original Mega Drive? Been googling a bit without finding any working solution so far.

An RGB bypass amp is your best bet. My SMS had terrible Jailbars and the bypass AMP fixed it for me.

http://retrorgb.com/genesisrgbbypass.html

 

[Shin Johnpv]

For people who need a JP21 switch, Superg the man behind the GSCARTSW has released all the info and items needed to manufacture it. So hopefully some one else will pick it up and make them, or theoretically you could make one yourself.

Here's the link to all the info and to quote Superg

http://www.gretrostuff.com/store/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/gscartsw_jp21_v34.7z

"JP21:
As I don’t work on JP21 switch version anymore I published everything needed to manufacture the switch. This archive includes GERBERs, BOM and case drawings. If you have questions on this you can post in this thread just PM me. All that I ask is please don’t claim that you’ve created the switch, don’t remove any silk labels and just be nice."

http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/gscartsw-automatic-8-1-scart-rgb-switch.52513/

 

[Laevateinn]

For people who need a JP21 switch, Superg the man behind the GSCARTSW has released all the info and items needed to manufacture it. So hopefully some one else will pick it up and make them, or theoretically you could make one yourself.

Here's the link to all the info and to quote Superg

http://www.gretrostuff.com/store/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/gscartsw_jp21_v34.7z

"JP21:
As I don’t work on JP21 switch version anymore I published everything needed to manufacture the switch. This archive includes GERBERs, BOM and case drawings. If you have questions on this you can post in this thread just PM me. All that I ask is please don’t claim that you’ve created the switch, don’t remove any silk labels and just be nice."

http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/gscartsw-automatic-8-1-scart-rgb-switch.52513/

This is a really good compromise. I ended up just switching to SCART. Rebuying all of my cables is probably cheaper and easier than building one of these using source files.

 

[geniusbits]

You need a converter. I was going to recommend this Composite/Svideo-to-RGB converter since I have an almost identical RGB-to-Composite/Svideo converter that works really well, but apparently Videogameperfection reviewed a rebranded version and it sucks or at least he got a faulty unit. What I'd like to know is where these converters come from. Like I said, mine worked well but I would've liked to cut out the middleman and paid less.

This looks like the only other viable option and being that it's Extron (industry grade equipment), I'm certain it works flawlessly. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extron-Multi-Standard-Decoder-CD-400-/332054285088

At that price I could almost just have the 3DO and N64 RGB modded and not have to worry. Seems like this would only be worth it if you had 4 or more S-video systems that you absolutely didn't want to use RGB for.

 

[Khaz]

I just received my 2600jr and NES RGB mod kits, yay!

But I'll have to wait until March to mount them, bummer

 

[Kawika]

Hey guys, I am looking for an option to work with my component part of my set up. I need to get at least 3 (or more) component inputs and 2 out puts. I found this from MLiG. I wasn't sure if anyone knows of another powered component switch with more than 1 output.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ACXCM0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

^ its like almost the exact opposite of what I want as far as inputs vs outputs.

 

[Khaz]

Why not use a simple splitter to get multiple outputs? Or do you want to be able to select them and turn them on or off?

I tend to advise for the Philips automatic 4-way component switcher, it doesn't have a remote to select an input, but is automatic so you don't even need to press a button. It was discontinued but plenty of them can still be found on ebay.

 

[Kawika]

Why not use a simple splitter to get multiple outputs? Or do you want to be able to select them and turn them on or off?

I tend to advise for the Philips automatic 4-way component switcher, it doesn't have a remote to select an input, but is automatic so you don't even need to press a button. It was discontinued but plenty of them can still be found on ebay.

1 output goes to the PVM CRT the other goes the XRGB and if I had a 3rd I would put it directly to the LCD. Mostly everything I care to play is RGB but I still have a Wii, Gamecube, PSP Go, and a PS2 that would be much easier to deal with if i didn't have to unhook it from the CRT every time I want to play on my LCD.

 

[bobble]

Hey guys, I am looking for an option to work with my component part of my set up. I need to get at least 3 (or more) component inputs and 2 out puts. I found this from MLiG. I wasn't sure if anyone knows of another powered component switch with more than 1 output.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ACXCM0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

^ its like almost the exact opposite of what I want as far as inputs vs outputs.

Just yesterday at my local Goodwill electronics store I picked up a weird box called "AVS100HD" that from what I can find was mostly for use in motor homes? Anyway it has 3 component inputs and 3 component outputs - my plan is to hook a few things to all of my CRTs at once for ridiculous reasons, no real point!! I'll check back in with pics once I actually get some things hooked up.

Best I could find was this completed ebay.ca auction : http://www.ebay.ca/itm/282003725146

 

[Kawika]

Just yesterday at my local Goodwill electronics store I picked up a weird box called "AVS100HD" that from what I can find was mostly for use in motor homes? Anyway it has 3 component inputs and 3 component outputs - my plan is to hook a few things to all of my CRTs at once for ridiculous reasons, no real point!! I'll check back in with pics once I actually get some things hooked up.

Best I could find was this completed ebay.ca auction : http://www.ebay.ca/itm/282003725146

Oh that would work. Looks a bit too beefy (not sure i could fit it in with my stuff) but now I have an idea where else to work. I would like to know your impressions of the video quality.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Has anyone ever taken on the task of building a PC emulator box that hooks up to a PVM? I still love physical hardware and the RGB mods but I'd love to do it for the weird consoles I have no interest in, like the CDi. I have done a little bit of research, it seems like it is possible but funky because of the resolution issues.

 

[D.Lo]

I swapped out my ten year old DIY RGB modded N64 for a new one recently. Got a new mobo and one of the custom parts to make a super clean mod. Sold the old one.

But now after swapping around my AV setup I find out that the mobo doesn't have csync connected so most of my cables don't work. Doh. It will be be quicker to add a sync stripper circuit than order cables with sync on Luma or composite video lol.

 

[Mega]

Has anyone ever taken on the task of building a PC emulator box that hooks up to a PVM? I still love physical hardware and the RGB mods but I'd love to do it for the weird consoles I have no interest in, like the CDi. I have done a little bit of research, it seems like it is possible but funky because of the resolution issues.

Yeah, look into CRT Emudriver to install a driver that can output a 15KHz signal for CRTs.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Yeah, look into CRT Emudriver to install a driver that can output a 15KHz signal for CRTs.

I have the PVM 20l5 which does 31khz. But then I read somewhere that the picture can have problems-- do you think that's true?

 

[Psxdad]

if using primarily for ps1/ps2/GameCube/dreamcast/Saturn/n64 would you invest in the OSSC or in the xrgb mini?