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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!
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NormalFish
Banned
You can get ps3 component cables from reputable dealers or first party and you'll be fine.
davidwhangchoi
Member
i brought a cheap 3rd party cable from gamestop 8 years ago and it's still working like a champ. i really wouldn't fuss too much over ps2 component cables as you can find them cheap. though if you can find a 1st party for cheap, even better.
same for the wii, i have some cheap 5 dollar cable that's been still going strong for several years.
Get this, it's what I use and works very well.
DracoBlade
Member
Hey guys, need to enlist ya'll again for assistance, though this one might be more specific to davidwangchoi
So I'm having trouble playing The House of the Dead (saturn import) on my trinitron KV- 24fv 300 using a nyko cobra (a psx/saturn light gun). Here's a video that illustrates the issue as I struggle apparently to film onehanded.
Any ideas on why the gun isn't calibrating properly? TV is 60 hz (not 100hz like some ppl have had difficulties with it in the little documentatio that survives on light gun troubleshooting). Any help would be more than appreciated!
No one?
IrishNinja
Member
the 3 rebirth games not getting a physical release was one of last gen's biggest crimes, i thought
davidwhangchoi
Member
Hey DracoBlade, I'm still waiting for my eBay order for the adaptor sixteen-bit recommended to come in before I can test out my gunconNo one?
Just a quick question, is that a CRT?
Hey guys, need to enlist ya'll again for assistance, though this one might be more specific to davidwangchoi
So I'm having trouble playing The House of the Dead (saturn import) on my trinitron KV- 24fv 300 using a nyko cobra (a psx/saturn light gun). Here's a video that illustrates the issue as I struggle apparently to film onehanded.
Any ideas on why the gun isn't calibrating properly? TV is 60 hz (not 100hz like some ppl have had difficulties with it in the little documentatio that survives on light gun troubleshooting). Any help would be more than appreciated!
Couldn't really tell how the calibration worked on your video, so I'd have to default to the cobra maybe not working well with HotD.
Other than the GunCons light guns tended to be pretty wonky and some times you just needed a different gun for different games.
I seem to remember the Cobra being okay for Die Hard Trilogy on PSX, but I don't remember if its Saturn compatibility was just a cheap gimmick (considering the state of third party peripherals of that time I'd lean towards cheap gimmick).
Nice, will check it out!
gingerbeardman
Member
Hell yeah. For me the Wii was a kind of elixir of life, I'm hoping for more new ways to play from NX.
I think VR is where the new experiences will be next. To me, VR is like a more fully realized version of what made the Wii so amazing (along with its own host of issues). It's a new way to play which is what we need. Hopefully, they can bring the price down, make the experience more user friendly and make the goggles a bit less bulky over time.
Yeah for sure. I do own them all on my Wii U now, as they was transferred with my saves etc, but it kinda sucks that they are stuck in Wii-mode there. Would definitely have bought a disc with these if Konami had bothered to release it.
D.Lo
Member
DS and Wii were the last 'exciting' systems. Before them I think most everything up to the Gamecube was exciting with new possibilities. Since then everything else has just been a PS2/Xbox 1 with more GHz. I mean they literally have almost the same controllers as 16 years ago, and the top games are the same genres.
Yeah, I very much agree with this. I actually just got a PS4 this week - and Im honestly super underwhelmed by everything about it. There is just no exciting new stuff about it, the controller is the same as always, the games looks basically the same (seriously), and most of the games are just not for me. Its a super conservative/boring machine, and if it wasnt for the few interesting exclusives like Bloodborne and Street Fighter V, there would be no point at all in it imo. How this is approaching 50 million sold baffles my mind, but I guess its the power of Cod/GTA/Fifa.
I have not tried VR, but I have a feeling that it will be incredibly tiring. Most of the times I just want to chill when I game, and I am just not sure I will be able to do that with VR. But I need to test it before i know, it definitely does look interesting.
Yeah, I am so hyped for NX and the new Zelda as well. Nintendo still designs games with very "old-school" design sensibilities, which makes me automatically interested in them.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Seems to me that Famicom and Master System and onward are in the same lineage of today's systems. They could just be considered 'exciting' because gaming was newer.
Wii was genuinely a break from that entire lineage. And if you want to be excited like that again... the answer is VR.
D.Lo
Member
Elements of the Famicom lineage remain (Master System was just a mee-too Famicom really). But disagree, it's not the same thing.
Mega Drive/SNES/PS1/N64 each had new game styles that were literally not possible before. You could not do Street Fighter II or Yoshi's Island on Famicom, and 3D development is an obvous major change. Controllers evolved to support and develop these new game types. PS2/GCN perfected stable 3D and hardened control styles (dual stick movement+camera and dual stick FPS). But since then the 360 the PSbox continuum has not offered much truly new.
Pretty much every PS4 game could be done on Gamecube or original Xbox with worse graphics and resolution. Even the massive worlds etc could be done with simpler geometry and textures. Yes maybe block head flat shaded characters, but they could be done. All they have to offer is graphics and resolution updates.
I mean it's pretty much proven when big releases on the platforms like GTA are literally last gen ports.
RadarScope1
Member
You'll never hear me complaining about the "same" controllers. I like that. Let's keep the inputs familiar and innovate on game mechanics and storytelling. Most music is written with the same twelve notes. It's about what you can do with them!
Laevateinn
Member
Yes! Whenever I play something that's not Sega Genesis, Saturn, or a retro Japanese PC, I play so poorly until I can get reused to the new layout.
It's more of an attachment for the original controller. The video shows only a prototype and he believes now that the information is out there a better looking more compact solution will be made.
Yep, I like that over a crappy control scheme for a controller. Plus when I switch between my 20+ consoles I want things simple.
DracoBlade
Member
NP and yes its a KV24FV300 Trinitron.
Yeah it works perfectly with PS1 light gun games so far, Project Horned owl on startup had 1:1 accuracy almost.
At this point I'm going to order NUBY's virtual light gun which is also a psx/saturn gun and hope for the best ;/
I'll tripple down on this sentiment. Wiimote gave me hand cramps and I'd hate to have another one of those or a Dreamcast controller scenario by having Sony or MS deviate too far from the norm just for the sake of it.
The one real thing that could get me excited about games like I used to 2 generations ago, would be for companies to deliver complete and varied game experiences like back then. None of this "Let's hack up every part of this game we can get away with and sell it to the customers peice meal. Oh, BTW, launch week buyers = unpaid beta testers cuz our shit is buggy as fuck but we'll let the paying customer figure that out. lol, no fucks given." If that could just stop, perhaps I'd stop being so damn synical by expecting the worst out of every game that gets announced.
Laevateinn
Member
I need one for the PC-98.
You have a PC-98? Damn, now that's hardcore.
Laevateinn
Member
Actually, I accidentally bought two. I bid on one and saw another one on buyee that was better. I couldn't figure out if I could cancel my bid and ended up with the highest bid on the first one as well.
D.Lo
Member
Fair enough points.
Rant incoming about the whole thing, not directly related to the quotes above
.....
It's not about the controllers of the past, it's about how until that point controllers and game designs evolved and largely improved symbiotically along with graphics. SNES introduces shoulder buttons for strafing. Street Fighter needed more buttons - arcades (and Sega consoles) go 6 button. 3D games needed analogue control for movement in 3D spaces - N64 introduced the modern stick. Non visual/audio feedback as a game feature? Rumble Pak. Racers need analogue accelerator - Dreamcast triggers (technically Saturn 3D pad). But that stopped. Why did it stop? Because no mainstream market leader has had any real imagination or bravery or been forward thinking for 20 years.
We're essentially permanently stuck with a SNES pad with two N64 sticks and Dreamcast triggers grafted on. The PS1 Dual Shock controller we still have (in refined form) is not the best controller possible, it's just the most generic. The diamond layout is still there to support legacy game designs like fighting games, but that's the point - legacy is holding back progress. The PS4 controller is still a bad controller for Street Fighter anyway, I'd prefer it being okay for legacy/specialty games to require a legacy controller, aka a classic controller, allowing new game designs to dictate where controllers head.
The Gamcube face button layout for a small example was bad for legacy games but objectively superior for forward looking games - the ability to have a clear home position and naturally rock from one main button to the three secondary buttons easily is simply superior, 99% of games use one button more than others, so less movement for the same button access is objectively a good thing. But it can't play Street Fighter very well so fuck progress right? Same with the Wii pointer, an incredibly useful tool for new and improved gameplay features (which was enabled by both its own technology and having separate controller pieces for each hand), now gone again.
I understand why it is like this. Sony is not a game company, they are a commodity media conglomerate/appliance maker (and insurance company lol), and they primarily target the same joe six pack over and over who will be afraid of change and will never buy a supplemental controller. So they need the safest, most backward compatible controller possible. Nintendo has also lost it and has reverted to same basic template (notwithstanding the giant screen in the middle of their current main pad).
But this isn't progress. It isn't brave. It isn't innovative. It's safety first, everything else be damned. Just like the generic PC-in-a-black-box systems we now have for consoles.
My ideal solution for progress is to plow on innovating in all spaces, software and hardware with new ideas, and iterations of old ideas can be supported as niches with special hardware - just like we used to have, eg light guns, dance mats, first party arcade sticks. The best possible set up right now still needs different hardware for different purposes - probably an Xbox One controller for FPS, a Wii Remote for pointer, a SNES pad for 2D platform/action, and a Saturn pad or arcade stick for fighters.
Yes I realise my above ideal probably makes no business sense. I mean it did with the Wii/DS but the western industry wanted the bad Chrono Trigger ending ('the Future refused to change') so effectively the most profitable and innovative console/handheld of all time was overruled by everyone else... I'm just explaining why I am unimpressed with games (including they way they are controlled) staying exactly the same with better graphics only. It's turned into a boring commodity.
.....
Sorry this isn't really relevant to this thread!
gingerbeardman
Member
Well said. I sure on all counts.
In other news, is there anybody in London (E/SE) who could help me test a few PVMs before my cables arrive? If so please quote here and PM me. Cheers!
In other news, is there anybody in London (E/SE) who could help me test a few PVMs before my cables arrive? If so please quote here and PM me. Cheers!
Why not getting an official first party one? I've heard so many horror stories about third party light guns I'm never getting one. Plus the Virtua Gun looks so cool.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I figure I'd ask here. I tried connecting a SNES and N64 to a standard HDTV using composite but I couldn't get a picture. Is this a problem with my TV or are the consoles dead? Unfortunately there's no way to tell if they're "on", or at least as far as I know.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Could be the composite jack on your TV. If you have a component input, try hooking the composite cable into the green/Y jack -- if you get a black&white picture it was your TV.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
thank you based god
Laevateinn
Member
For those wondering, my PC Engine things (PC Engine, Turbo Everdrive, RGB cable) arrived and I can confirm the RGB EXT cable from fidd_se on ebay and Turbo Everdrive (krikzz) are working without issue.
If there some kind of cable setup I can use with my briefcase or will I eventually have to go in and mod it?
From the seller's decription of this particular cable: "connect into the EXT socket of your PC-Engine (White), CoreGrafx, CoreGrafx II, TurboGrafx 16 US/EU, SuperGrafx, PC-Engine LT."
For those wondering, my PC Engine things (PC Engine, Turbo Everdrive, RGB cable) arrived and I can confirm the RGB EXT cable from fidd_se on ebay and Turbo Everdrive (krikzz) are working without issue.
I've also got a cable on the way from this wonderful seller! They don't have the listing up but if anyone would like one I contacted them directly through Ebay messaging.
NormalFish
Banned
Walked by one of the server rooms at my university and saw a PVM in use. Funny little moment.
Shin Johnpv
Member
That cable uses the ext port that the briefcase set up plugs into. With a briefcase setup you're going to have to get it modded.
davidwhangchoi
Member
ok guys my light gun adaptor just came in today! (it came with a bonus s-video cable but i'm using component to a Sony BVM) i tested it out Time Crisis II and it works perfect!
thanks again sixteen-bit for sharing what i needed to buy to get it working
some bad pics to at least show it in action =)
thanks again sixteen-bit for sharing what i needed to buy to get it working
some bad pics to at least show it in action =)
Laevateinn
Member
I figured as much. Soldering such a pain so I was hoping for an easy out.
theSlacker
Member
You left out the part where you are now plotting your return when there are less people are around.
sixteen-bit
Member
cool pics david and ponpo
gingerbeardman
Member
https://www.trinitysquarevideo.com/images/gear/103.pdf
Those two vary in number of lines on the display, phosphor type, etc.
Always try to find the manual or data sheet.
Nice, thank you for that! The model with the 4 is superior then, I found one for 100 in spanish second hand websites, will try to contact the seller.
gingerbeardman
Member
Make them an offer! Good luck.
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